Ravenar staff with fire opals
Ravenar staff with fire opals
I was wondering if an item of this calibur could be added that's useable by good raced characters. This thing blows all the other 1h mage items out of the water.
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-Yayaril
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-Yayaril
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Azenilsee:
<B>Cool, let's make psilk eyepatch evilrace only too.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sure, if you write a goodie zone with an equivalent piece of equipment. Not that this would effect me, actually. Just trying for equality.
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Malacar - omg ymir!
<B>Cool, let's make psilk eyepatch evilrace only too.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sure, if you write a goodie zone with an equivalent piece of equipment. Not that this would effect me, actually. Just trying for equality.
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Malacar - omg ymir!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Todrael:
<B> Been to fire plane lately?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
once again Tod owns a thread :P
fplane now has an eyepatch same stats .. and hey even same descript as psilk...
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MoM-D
<B> Been to fire plane lately?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
once again Tod owns a thread :P
fplane now has an eyepatch same stats .. and hey even same descript as psilk...
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MoM-D
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ambar:
<B>Write the zone, Mal :P
Why should item attained in an evil hometown be goodie race usable???
I personally still wonder why the warbow is goodie usable .. why would a ranger use something that evil?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Um, because there were no dire raiders when the warbow went in, so someone musta assumed a ranger would use it?
On the other hand I wouldn't be overly upset if the glittering golden mask was made !evilrace. *ponder*
Oh, btw. FP tattoo (what a spanky item) is !warrior too.
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How to go from Waelos to Weylarii.
Weylarii group-says 'oh shit! my penis is stuck in the toaster. afk'
<B>Write the zone, Mal :P
Why should item attained in an evil hometown be goodie race usable???
I personally still wonder why the warbow is goodie usable .. why would a ranger use something that evil?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Um, because there were no dire raiders when the warbow went in, so someone musta assumed a ranger would use it?
On the other hand I wouldn't be overly upset if the glittering golden mask was made !evilrace. *ponder*
Oh, btw. FP tattoo (what a spanky item) is !warrior too.
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How to go from Waelos to Weylarii.
Weylarii group-says 'oh shit! my penis is stuck in the toaster. afk'
GG mask topaz's don't HAVE to load in WD . sometimes they load in the other towns ..... so this IS an evil attainable item, albeit seldom .... Last time I saw a goodie in DK it was a corpse ... I do agree the name itself says !evil .. but if we went on item names ... what all would have to be changed ...
My point was tho that the creator of the zone hooked up evils ... maybe someone will write a zone that hooks up goodies, a zone that has goodie only items??
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Ambar -= Beloved Matron =- Crimson Coalition
My point was tho that the creator of the zone hooked up evils ... maybe someone will write a zone that hooks up goodies, a zone that has goodie only items??
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Ambar -= Beloved Matron =- Crimson Coalition
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ambar:
<B>Why should item attained in an evil hometown be goodie race usable???
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Do you honestly want me to go there?
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Malacar - omg ymir!
<B>Why should item attained in an evil hometown be goodie race usable???
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Do you honestly want me to go there?
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Malacar - omg ymir!
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None of this really changes the fundamental issue on the item in question - according to Yaya, it's substantially better than others. Not merely the same, and more easily obtainable. It's DIFFERENT. That's what's in question.
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Daz group-says 'rofl, moritheil is the mcdonald's of death'
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Daz group-says 'rofl, moritheil is the mcdonald's of death'
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Can you name one evil race who completed GGM as an evil? If you can, then lets compare the percentages evil attained GGMs and good obtained GGM. Empirically, GGM is good only attainable.
I'd give up my ravenear before I'd give up my arch-magi staff.
lets think about DK. the zone was written by a rather wise and prominent god. why? I sincerely doubt that its because the god involved just wanted to have people hang in his zone 24x7 and have pimpin gear.... or maybe that was exactly it.
my guess would be that the gods in general wanted to make the evil races more popular than they were and to move their base of operation to a more remote location. gloom/TP/BS, old evil haunts, are very close to WD... even BG is not that far away. Menzo has been coming for 7 years... look at DK as a stepping stone to what they want the "evils" to be. If DK was ass exp and or didn't have nice eq do you think it would now be the WD of the evils?
If I'm right and this was the rationale, then perhaps "DK vault" and DK exp should be re-examined, now that the evils have a mostly viable self sustaining population. Perhaps it has served its purpose and needs to be brought inline with the game as it exists today (much like artifacts have been done away with). Then again, ask yourself, does it need to be fixed? Perhaps that is a question for the the much delayed menzo to answer.... or perhaps mezno will be the next "DK."
Perhaps the time of "DK vault" is passed and perhaps DK exp should be go the way of WD (justice and nerfed to get people out of town). However, even with this unbelievable item and zone, evils still have half the good player base.
and yaya if your taking zone writting requests, can we get a dire raider windsong? a Ogre Unholy avenger and a Troll Ambran? I'd like a snakeable ayruk tears too while your at it. oh and throw in a set of phaerimm sleeves too.
Someone should link this thread to that offsite article on "game balance." to sum it up, you will never achieve linear balance however if you can provide a variety of options without any game breaking or unplayable ones then your game is balanced.
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where ara you my rittle raabuuri
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 10-22-2002).]
I'd give up my ravenear before I'd give up my arch-magi staff.
lets think about DK. the zone was written by a rather wise and prominent god. why? I sincerely doubt that its because the god involved just wanted to have people hang in his zone 24x7 and have pimpin gear.... or maybe that was exactly it.
my guess would be that the gods in general wanted to make the evil races more popular than they were and to move their base of operation to a more remote location. gloom/TP/BS, old evil haunts, are very close to WD... even BG is not that far away. Menzo has been coming for 7 years... look at DK as a stepping stone to what they want the "evils" to be. If DK was ass exp and or didn't have nice eq do you think it would now be the WD of the evils?
If I'm right and this was the rationale, then perhaps "DK vault" and DK exp should be re-examined, now that the evils have a mostly viable self sustaining population. Perhaps it has served its purpose and needs to be brought inline with the game as it exists today (much like artifacts have been done away with). Then again, ask yourself, does it need to be fixed? Perhaps that is a question for the the much delayed menzo to answer.... or perhaps mezno will be the next "DK."
Perhaps the time of "DK vault" is passed and perhaps DK exp should be go the way of WD (justice and nerfed to get people out of town). However, even with this unbelievable item and zone, evils still have half the good player base.
and yaya if your taking zone writting requests, can we get a dire raider windsong? a Ogre Unholy avenger and a Troll Ambran? I'd like a snakeable ayruk tears too while your at it. oh and throw in a set of phaerimm sleeves too.
Someone should link this thread to that offsite article on "game balance." to sum it up, you will never achieve linear balance however if you can provide a variety of options without any game breaking or unplayable ones then your game is balanced.
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where ara you my rittle raabuuri
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 10-22-2002).]
Dear gods, you people! Ambar, your point is that the zonewriter "hooked up evils," but by that same logic, if the zone writer had wanted the psilk to be evilrace only he would have written it as evilace only.
Yaya was making a reasonable request, all of you need to stop getting your panties in a wad. I don't know a single good that would have a problem trading the things to evils that evils need, and in fact know quite a few goods that go out of their way to help evils. Evils don't seem to have any problems going outside their realms to get what they need, and this old psilk horse is lame, so can we shoot it already?
Oh, and Kiryan, I'd love an elfable Ayruk's tears, and most definitely an elfable Avenger. As for windsong, that road's been traveled sooooooo many tedious times already, what do you do, dream of it in your fevered sleep? Let me guess, in your dreams it's just you, nekkid, wielding Windsong in your right hand, your silvery sack in the other as you step up against a firebreathing dragon, right?
Yaya was making a reasonable request, all of you need to stop getting your panties in a wad. I don't know a single good that would have a problem trading the things to evils that evils need, and in fact know quite a few goods that go out of their way to help evils. Evils don't seem to have any problems going outside their realms to get what they need, and this old psilk horse is lame, so can we shoot it already?
Oh, and Kiryan, I'd love an elfable Ayruk's tears, and most definitely an elfable Avenger. As for windsong, that road's been traveled sooooooo many tedious times already, what do you do, dream of it in your fevered sleep? Let me guess, in your dreams it's just you, nekkid, wielding Windsong in your right hand, your silvery sack in the other as you step up against a firebreathing dragon, right?
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>Oh, and Kiryan, I'd love an elfable Ayruk's tears, and most definitely an elfable Avenger. As for windsong, that road's been traveled sooooooo many tedious times already, what do you do, dream of it in your fevered sleep? Let me guess, in your dreams it's just you, nekkid, wielding Windsong in your right hand, your silvery sack in the other as you step up against a firebreathing dragon, right?
exactly my point, there are lots of great eq that is restricted and its not a good basis on which to request equivalent items that you can use. thats was the opening post btw, make a ravenear staff for good races.
and no, i dont dream of windsong, but sometimes i have to change my shorts after i see valhalla scepter proc.
exactly my point, there are lots of great eq that is restricted and its not a good basis on which to request equivalent items that you can use. thats was the opening post btw, make a ravenear staff for good races.
and no, i dont dream of windsong, but sometimes i have to change my shorts after i see valhalla scepter proc.
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ashiwi:
<B>
Evils don't seem to have any problems going outside their realms to get what they need....</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Those must be other evils, not the ones I group with.
On topic, isn't there sufficient good only and only attainable by goods eq that 'balances out' the ravenar?
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Cherzra- "My only innate is max 10 evils on"
<B>
Evils don't seem to have any problems going outside their realms to get what they need....</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Those must be other evils, not the ones I group with.
On topic, isn't there sufficient good only and only attainable by goods eq that 'balances out' the ravenar?
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Cherzra- "My only innate is max 10 evils on"
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Xisiqomelir:
<B> Those must be other evils, not the ones I group with.
On topic, isn't there sufficient good only and only attainable by goods eq that 'balances out' the ravenar?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's what I'm asking for- something for goodraces that balances out this monster. It's got stats that are way better than the rest of the items in its class, yet is easier to attain than these other items.
As for ayruk tears, phaerimm sleeves, and un/holy avengers, Kiryan, there are other weapons and items with stats that are similar to these and are equally as effective. For phaerimm sleeves, there are grey greens and vermillions. For ayruk tears, there are shells and combat necklaces. There are plenty of weapons that are equal if not better than the avengers (gythka anyone?). However, if we want a comparison- having the ravenar staff is like having sleeves that are !evilrace and +3+3. They're a step ahead of the rest and it doesn't seem balanced to me.
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-Yayaril
<B> Those must be other evils, not the ones I group with.
On topic, isn't there sufficient good only and only attainable by goods eq that 'balances out' the ravenar?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's what I'm asking for- something for goodraces that balances out this monster. It's got stats that are way better than the rest of the items in its class, yet is easier to attain than these other items.
As for ayruk tears, phaerimm sleeves, and un/holy avengers, Kiryan, there are other weapons and items with stats that are similar to these and are equally as effective. For phaerimm sleeves, there are grey greens and vermillions. For ayruk tears, there are shells and combat necklaces. There are plenty of weapons that are equal if not better than the avengers (gythka anyone?). However, if we want a comparison- having the ravenar staff is like having sleeves that are !evilrace and +3+3. They're a step ahead of the rest and it doesn't seem balanced to me.
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-Yayaril
sure just make it good useable
then make all dwarf only weapons and eq dueragarable, and vis versa
all elf only drow and grey able and vis versa
or did ya want to keep those good only?
sorry for sarcasam
i dont know so let me ask..
how many items *weapons and eq* good only that evils would like to have...
and how many evil only goods would like to have?
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MoM-D
then make all dwarf only weapons and eq dueragarable, and vis versa
all elf only drow and grey able and vis versa
or did ya want to keep those good only?
sorry for sarcasam
i dont know so let me ask..
how many items *weapons and eq* good only that evils would like to have...
and how many evil only goods would like to have?
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MoM-D
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zoldren:
<B>sure just make it good useable
then make all dwarf only weapons and eq dueragarable, and vis versa
all elf only drow and grey able and vis versa
or did ya want to keep those good only?
sorry for sarcasam
i dont know so let me ask..
how many items *weapons and eq* good only that evils would like to have...
and how many evil only goods would like to have?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Zoldren, I don't care if there are items that only one class/race/side can use, as long as there are equitable things the other side can use. All those items you named have things that are equally powerful for the evil side.
Nobody complains that the leather armor from Swift Steel is !evilrace. Why? Because there are things of equitable power for the evilraces to get. The kirin horn is evilrace useable only- sure, goodies would want to wield it (it's a good weapon), but we're not going bonkers over it because there are other weapons of equal calibur that can be obtained.
The difference with the ravenar staff is that there isn't anything of equal calibur that can be obtained, like it, short of tiamat gear. I'm not writing this out of jealousy- if that's what you think. Personally, I don't want to wield a ravenar staff (I think they're ugly). I do, however, want there to be equal opportunity, and that's just what this post is about.
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-Yayaril
<B>sure just make it good useable
then make all dwarf only weapons and eq dueragarable, and vis versa
all elf only drow and grey able and vis versa
or did ya want to keep those good only?
sorry for sarcasam
i dont know so let me ask..
how many items *weapons and eq* good only that evils would like to have...
and how many evil only goods would like to have?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Zoldren, I don't care if there are items that only one class/race/side can use, as long as there are equitable things the other side can use. All those items you named have things that are equally powerful for the evil side.
Nobody complains that the leather armor from Swift Steel is !evilrace. Why? Because there are things of equitable power for the evilraces to get. The kirin horn is evilrace useable only- sure, goodies would want to wield it (it's a good weapon), but we're not going bonkers over it because there are other weapons of equal calibur that can be obtained.
The difference with the ravenar staff is that there isn't anything of equal calibur that can be obtained, like it, short of tiamat gear. I'm not writing this out of jealousy- if that's what you think. Personally, I don't want to wield a ravenar staff (I think they're ugly). I do, however, want there to be equal opportunity, and that's just what this post is about.
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-Yayaril
Yeah I gotta find some of that drowable perm sneak stuff that's evilable and not tia gear. =) By the way, all dk vault eq is evilrace-only, so ravenar is evil-only for rp reasons. Decent hp leggings aren't exactly easy to get on evil side either, but those dragonscale leggings seem to be pretty available over on the goodie side. Heh I went straight from crap leggings to basilisk, though we do have some spider cuisses.
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Verzul / Dulzuth - Jabbuk D'faer - Orbdrin D'oloth
[This message has been edited by Dulzuth (edited 10-22-2002).]
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Verzul / Dulzuth - Jabbuk D'faer - Orbdrin D'oloth
[This message has been edited by Dulzuth (edited 10-22-2002).]
Dulzuth- the spider cuisse/dragonscale leggings quest is a good example of equal opportunity. The quest offers up something for both good and evil folks (I guess neutral gets screwed on this one). I don't mind if DK vault gear is evilrace only, hey it makes sense. The only thing I want is for there to be the 'opportunity' for goodraced folks to get an item with as good of stats as the ravenar staff. Its stats are beyond the best questable items available to goods and evils alike, and is easier to get. Separate but equal!
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-Yayaril
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-Yayaril
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dulzuth:
<B>Yeah I gotta find some of that drowable perm sneak stuff that's evilable and not tia gear. =) By the way, all dk vault eq is evilrace-only, so ravenar is evil-only for rp reasons. Decent hp leggings aren't exactly easy to get on evil side either, but those dragonscale leggings seem to be pretty available over on the goodie side. Heh I went straight from crap leggings to basilisk, though we do have some spider cuisses.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I will agree, permsneak gear that isnt from tia should be either taken out or given like an equivalent to a 50 or 70 rogue skill...that is just bad.
As far as the rest of your post, i think you missed his point, he doesnt want the staff goodraceable. So it doesnt really matter that all of the gear in dk vault is evilrace only. He wants something with at least similar stats on the good side like with a little less hps or something. Its like making they gythka and twilight goodrace only, and having the best 2h weapon on the evil side being the holy avenger...Pali avenger is hardly wieldable in zones so it basically makes it a useless sword unless you are doing solo exp.
Oh, and ambar, I have been to dk many many times now and have only died once because i killed one of your drow friends there .
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Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'
Dartan tells you 'i own so hard sometimes it makes me want to cry'
Nitupopple group-says 'esrel get glorishan off'
<B>Yeah I gotta find some of that drowable perm sneak stuff that's evilable and not tia gear. =) By the way, all dk vault eq is evilrace-only, so ravenar is evil-only for rp reasons. Decent hp leggings aren't exactly easy to get on evil side either, but those dragonscale leggings seem to be pretty available over on the goodie side. Heh I went straight from crap leggings to basilisk, though we do have some spider cuisses.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I will agree, permsneak gear that isnt from tia should be either taken out or given like an equivalent to a 50 or 70 rogue skill...that is just bad.
As far as the rest of your post, i think you missed his point, he doesnt want the staff goodraceable. So it doesnt really matter that all of the gear in dk vault is evilrace only. He wants something with at least similar stats on the good side like with a little less hps or something. Its like making they gythka and twilight goodrace only, and having the best 2h weapon on the evil side being the holy avenger...Pali avenger is hardly wieldable in zones so it basically makes it a useless sword unless you are doing solo exp.
Oh, and ambar, I have been to dk many many times now and have only died once because i killed one of your drow friends there .
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Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'
Dartan tells you 'i own so hard sometimes it makes me want to cry'
Nitupopple group-says 'esrel get glorishan off'
"I personally still wonder why the warbow is goodie usable .. why would a ranger use something that evil?"
Outta curiosity, how is the warbow evil? It screams loudly and channels a lot of power and fury, but that hardly makes it evil. Plenty of barbarians are good or neutral after all.
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You fire a black-shafted elven arrow to the east at Gormal's pet goat with masterful shooting that does lethal damage!
You receive your share of experience.
[This message has been edited by Treladian (edited 10-22-2002).]
Outta curiosity, how is the warbow evil? It screams loudly and channels a lot of power and fury, but that hardly makes it evil. Plenty of barbarians are good or neutral after all.
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You fire a black-shafted elven arrow to the east at Gormal's pet goat with masterful shooting that does lethal damage!
You receive your share of experience.
[This message has been edited by Treladian (edited 10-22-2002).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kiryan:
<B>
and yaya if your taking zone writting requests, can we get a dire raider windsong? a Ogre Unholy avenger and a Troll Ambran? I'd like a snakeable ayruk tears too while your at it. oh and throw in a set of phaerimm sleeves too.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Good god, do you ever shut up about windsong?
If you want a freaking evilrace windsong, write the zone for it dumbass. Unfortunately the rangers don't get the option of making a zone to make our archery worth didly.
Last I checked, evils have better innates all around, and perhaps unholy avenger and ambran make up for humans having basically none(not to mention the entire RP value).
There is a bit of Yuan-ti only gear too, though I'm sure you know that since you know all.
Honestly if your argument is based on balance and how we'll never get there totally, bring up better instances of how things are "not nearly balanced".
Twinshadow
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Tanji group-says 'Twyl keeps thinkin he rolled a rogue'
<B>
and yaya if your taking zone writting requests, can we get a dire raider windsong? a Ogre Unholy avenger and a Troll Ambran? I'd like a snakeable ayruk tears too while your at it. oh and throw in a set of phaerimm sleeves too.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Good god, do you ever shut up about windsong?
If you want a freaking evilrace windsong, write the zone for it dumbass. Unfortunately the rangers don't get the option of making a zone to make our archery worth didly.
Last I checked, evils have better innates all around, and perhaps unholy avenger and ambran make up for humans having basically none(not to mention the entire RP value).
There is a bit of Yuan-ti only gear too, though I'm sure you know that since you know all.
Honestly if your argument is based on balance and how we'll never get there totally, bring up better instances of how things are "not nearly balanced".
Twinshadow
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Tanji group-says 'Twyl keeps thinkin he rolled a rogue'
If you guys want an equivalent goodie item ... write the zone for it!!
God thats ALL I said!!
Why bitch and moan about it .. get together and write the zone .. thats all i meant about the zone writer hookin evils up ... or get together and petition a zone writer to write a zone for this item and for others ...
Kifle sweetie i never said goodies dont go to DK .. i said that last time i saw a goodie there it was a corpse .. *peer*
I'm so sick of the evil/goodie whine fest! Each side of the *racewar* has its advantages ... they also have their disadvantages ... Roll some of each so you can try it out ..
If we were all the same and could use the same eq, we'd all look the same .. We'd have all the same abilities ... Let us have our evil stuff and you can have your goodie stuff .. lets just end the controversy or write the zone!
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Ambar -= Beloved Matron =- Crimson Coalition
God thats ALL I said!!
Why bitch and moan about it .. get together and write the zone .. thats all i meant about the zone writer hookin evils up ... or get together and petition a zone writer to write a zone for this item and for others ...
Kifle sweetie i never said goodies dont go to DK .. i said that last time i saw a goodie there it was a corpse .. *peer*
I'm so sick of the evil/goodie whine fest! Each side of the *racewar* has its advantages ... they also have their disadvantages ... Roll some of each so you can try it out ..
If we were all the same and could use the same eq, we'd all look the same .. We'd have all the same abilities ... Let us have our evil stuff and you can have your goodie stuff .. lets just end the controversy or write the zone!
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Ambar -= Beloved Matron =- Crimson Coalition
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ashiwi:
Let me guess, in your dreams it's just you, nekkid, wielding Windsong in your right hand, your silvery sack in the other as you step up against a firebreathing dragon, right?</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have lived this fantasy. I can see that you are all absolutely fuming with jealousy.
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- Ragorn
Rondandal tells you 'I take it your goal is to clash?'
Let me guess, in your dreams it's just you, nekkid, wielding Windsong in your right hand, your silvery sack in the other as you step up against a firebreathing dragon, right?</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have lived this fantasy. I can see that you are all absolutely fuming with jealousy.
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- Ragorn
Rondandal tells you 'I take it your goal is to clash?'
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ambar:
<B>If you guys want an equivalent goodie item ... write the zone for it!!
God thats ALL I said!!
Why bitch and moan about it .. get together and write the zone .. thats all i meant about the zone writer hookin evils up ... or get together and petition a zone writer to write a zone for this item and for others ...
Kifle sweetie i never said goodies dont go to DK .. i said that last time i saw a goodie there it was a corpse .. *peer*
I'm so sick of the evil/goodie whine fest! Each side of the *racewar* has its advantages ... they also have their disadvantages ... Roll some of each so you can try it out ..
If we were all the same and could use the same eq, we'd all look the same .. We'd have all the same abilities ... Let us have our evil stuff and you can have your goodie stuff .. lets just end the controversy or write the zone!
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't want everyone to look the same- that's why I didn't ask for the ravenar staff to lose the !goodrace flag. I just want something equivalent that's available for use by the good races. Somehow, though, I don't think something this good will be in a new zone, especially any zone that's equivalent in difficulty to DK vault. The best held item I can think of for mages is clouds orb and elemental orb of power, and those are weaker than the ravenar staff, yet more difficult to acquire. If you're so sick of evils and goodies whining, then this bbs is a bad place to be, for that's what a lot of the posts are about. Well, I posted my idea: make a goodrace useable item with stats similar to ravenar staff. Now it's up to the zonemaker to try and put it in. Good day, and god bless!
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-Yayaril
<B>If you guys want an equivalent goodie item ... write the zone for it!!
God thats ALL I said!!
Why bitch and moan about it .. get together and write the zone .. thats all i meant about the zone writer hookin evils up ... or get together and petition a zone writer to write a zone for this item and for others ...
Kifle sweetie i never said goodies dont go to DK .. i said that last time i saw a goodie there it was a corpse .. *peer*
I'm so sick of the evil/goodie whine fest! Each side of the *racewar* has its advantages ... they also have their disadvantages ... Roll some of each so you can try it out ..
If we were all the same and could use the same eq, we'd all look the same .. We'd have all the same abilities ... Let us have our evil stuff and you can have your goodie stuff .. lets just end the controversy or write the zone!
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't want everyone to look the same- that's why I didn't ask for the ravenar staff to lose the !goodrace flag. I just want something equivalent that's available for use by the good races. Somehow, though, I don't think something this good will be in a new zone, especially any zone that's equivalent in difficulty to DK vault. The best held item I can think of for mages is clouds orb and elemental orb of power, and those are weaker than the ravenar staff, yet more difficult to acquire. If you're so sick of evils and goodies whining, then this bbs is a bad place to be, for that's what a lot of the posts are about. Well, I posted my idea: make a goodrace useable item with stats similar to ravenar staff. Now it's up to the zonemaker to try and put it in. Good day, and god bless!
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-Yayaril
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- Sojourner
- Posts: 244
- Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2002 5:01 am
I was going to be petty, and list out 40+ items I wanted to have that was good only, but I won't. When a area maker makes a zone, and decides that he wants to make a item like that, maybe it will happen. Who knows. Coming on the bbs and complaining about it is going to do very little though.
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Gromikazer Terrorforge -Veldruk- Orbdrin D'oloth
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Gromikazer Terrorforge -Veldruk- Orbdrin D'oloth
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Yayaril:
Please list them out, Gromikazer, and I will gladly list off evil useable items that are of equal or similar stats.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's completely subjective, unless the items have exactly the same stats, which they never do. This whole "discussion" is pointless, in my opinion. My suggestion is to agree to disagree.
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-Todrael Azz'miala, Ravager
Please list them out, Gromikazer, and I will gladly list off evil useable items that are of equal or similar stats.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's completely subjective, unless the items have exactly the same stats, which they never do. This whole "discussion" is pointless, in my opinion. My suggestion is to agree to disagree.
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-Todrael Azz'miala, Ravager
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Todrael:
<B> That's completely subjective, unless the items have exactly the same stats, which they never do. This whole "discussion" is pointless, in my opinion. My suggestion is to agree to disagree.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, since we're dealing with numbers, we can do this in an objective manner.
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-Yayaril
<B> That's completely subjective, unless the items have exactly the same stats, which they never do. This whole "discussion" is pointless, in my opinion. My suggestion is to agree to disagree.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, since we're dealing with numbers, we can do this in an objective manner.
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-Yayaril
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Yayaril:
Actually, since we're dealing with numbers, we can do this in an objective manner.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just because you're dealing with numbers does not make it objective. When comparing two items, each separate set of statistics must be assigned a common "value" by the player, which will be completely subjective based on what that attribute means to the player. How much is a prot worth? What about sv_spell vs. hps? How much is AC worth when compared to another hitroll? Every item will have all of these statistics in varying degrees, which will make actual, objective comparison impossible.
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-Todrael Azz'miala, Ravager
Actually, since we're dealing with numbers, we can do this in an objective manner.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just because you're dealing with numbers does not make it objective. When comparing two items, each separate set of statistics must be assigned a common "value" by the player, which will be completely subjective based on what that attribute means to the player. How much is a prot worth? What about sv_spell vs. hps? How much is AC worth when compared to another hitroll? Every item will have all of these statistics in varying degrees, which will make actual, objective comparison impossible.
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-Todrael Azz'miala, Ravager
Yes, that is true Todrael. However, most people don't compare a sword to a hat. Most people don't compare a hat with hitpoints to a hat with hitroll. When people compare things, it's usually two items that affect similar things. In this case, my comparison is the ravenar staff (adds hitpoints and max_int) to other items that add hitpoints and max int. Since the Ravenar staff adds more than the other ones, and is easier to obtain, it is objectively superior. It may be subjectively inferior if you don't like the ansi, but statwise, it is objectively superior. I think I'm going to change my stance- forget about adding another item similar to this to the game, let's just downgrade the ravenar staff. Frankly, it's too strong and needs to be nerfed. It's unbalanced due to the effort needed to get it and that is much better than anything else in its genre. I've talked to some zone builders and they seriously don't think anything similar to it is going to be added- because it is too strong and will be rejected.
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-Yayaril
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-Yayaril
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dizzin:
<B>And while they're at it, someone put in a replacement for the old Roots belt! It's about time new mages had a belt better than fugging 20 hps! Thanks!
-Tre'Verien</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I believe this alredy exists as a rare load in Musp, probably others out there as well.
<B>And while they're at it, someone put in a replacement for the old Roots belt! It's about time new mages had a belt better than fugging 20 hps! Thanks!
-Tre'Verien</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I believe this alredy exists as a rare load in Musp, probably others out there as well.
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- Sojourner
- Posts: 765
- Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2002 5:01 am
- Location: Atlanta, Georgia
I can think of a +35 hps +max_int staff thats wieldable by goodies. I can also think of a +65 hps 2-hander. I think the tables have become a lot more balanced now than they used to be.
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How to go from Waelos to Weylarii.
Weylarii group-says 'oh shit! my penis is stuck in the toaster. afk'
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How to go from Waelos to Weylarii.
Weylarii group-says 'oh shit! my penis is stuck in the toaster. afk'
What is the subjective value of it being a weapon as opposed to a held, and therefore only one being usable at a time? What is the subjective value of it being cursed and causing all of the problems a cursed item has? Barring that, what is the subjective value of being able to fumble it? What is the subjective value of no-summon from a flaming magi staff? What is the subjective value of the +hit to a flaming magi staff? What is the subjective value of the sv_spell of a heartstone or of a kern book? What is the subjective value of the no-charm of a heartstone? What is the subjective value of the magic resistance from a gnomish anti-magic device? What is the subjective value of dealing a little damage and having a fun proc with an orb of annihilation? Limiting the choices to simply +hp +int_max items is effectively assigning a value of Zero to all of these, which is very subjective.
You don't need to compare hats and swords to find subjective value in a comparison. Your stated comparison of +hitpoints and +int_max in the held slot is flawed, as that is not the true opportunity cost of wielding the ravenar staff. The true opportunity cost is all available items for the single wielded slot that a mage has available. I only listed things that a mage is likely to be using in that slot, leaving out the things people would be less likely to choose, but I think I've done more than prove that a comparison among items is a very subjective process.
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-Todrael Azz'miala, Ravager
[This message has been edited by Todrael (edited 10-23-2002).]
You don't need to compare hats and swords to find subjective value in a comparison. Your stated comparison of +hitpoints and +int_max in the held slot is flawed, as that is not the true opportunity cost of wielding the ravenar staff. The true opportunity cost is all available items for the single wielded slot that a mage has available. I only listed things that a mage is likely to be using in that slot, leaving out the things people would be less likely to choose, but I think I've done more than prove that a comparison among items is a very subjective process.
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-Todrael Azz'miala, Ravager
[This message has been edited by Todrael (edited 10-23-2002).]
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- Sojourner
- Posts: 870
- Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:01 am
- Location: Ixarkon
- Contact:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Yayaril:
<B> I think I'm going to change my stance- forget about adding another item similar to this to the game, let's just downgrade the ravenar staff.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ah, but this is a much more controversial request. Asking for goodrace equivalent items is 'balancing up'. Asking for downgrades of evil items is 'balancing down'. Your new stance is going to be far less acceptable to many evils, myself included.
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Cherzra- "My only innate is max 10 evils on"
<B> I think I'm going to change my stance- forget about adding another item similar to this to the game, let's just downgrade the ravenar staff.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ah, but this is a much more controversial request. Asking for goodrace equivalent items is 'balancing up'. Asking for downgrades of evil items is 'balancing down'. Your new stance is going to be far less acceptable to many evils, myself included.
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Cherzra- "My only innate is max 10 evils on"
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- Sojourner
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2002 5:01 am
- Location: Brighton, MI USA
I know I'm fairly new to Sojourn and I don't have any high level characters, but I want to add my two cents to this issue. I think it's kinda odd that some people come on here and complain about eq (not blaming or fingering anyone) when the true reason that we play is lost. We love to play games! Now I know this is kind of a different situation, but when you play a video game the odds aren't always in your favor and the computer usually has an edge over the player in some respects. So, equality is all that you make of it, why not accept the challenge of strategy rather than being able to have uber equipment. That's not what Roleplaying is all about, or any game for that matter. So, let's all get back to what we enjoy and love and let the gods and area writers take care of things as they see fit.
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