<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Antiheroes:
<B>I know I'm fairly new to Sojourn and I don't have any high level characters, but I want to add my two cents to this issue. I think it's kinda odd that some people come on here and complain about eq (not blaming or fingering anyone) when the true reason that we play is lost. We love to play games! Now I know this is kind of a different situation, but when you play a video game the odds aren't always in your favor and the computer usually has an edge over the player in some respects. So, equality is all that you make of it, why not accept the challenge of strategy rather than being able to have uber equipment. That's not what Roleplaying is all about, or any game for that matter. So, let's all get back to what we enjoy and love and let the gods and area writers take care of things as they see fit.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Unfortunately these ideals are lost dear. To some this is no longer a game but a fight to have the best stuff and it is sad. RP no longer means anything, and using strategy now days means twinking a zone and having it upgraded with things like blocking code. If you wanted this stuff you should have played here 7 or 8 years ago.
Now, i am not knocking anyone by saying this, or not attempting to anyway, but the aspects of this game have changes, some better some worse. I think the best thing in situations like these is not to look at it as something you are losing, ie. a downgrade, but something that might make this game a bit more challenging...
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Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'
Dartan tells you 'i own so hard sometimes it makes me want to cry'
Nitupopple group-says 'esrel get glorishan off'
Ravenar staff with fire opals
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Todrael:
<B>What is the subjective value of it being a weapon as opposed to a held, and therefore only one being usable at a time? What is the subjective value of it being cursed and causing all of the problems a cursed item has? Barring that, what is the subjective value of being able to fumble it? What is the subjective value of no-summon from a flaming magi staff? What is the subjective value of the +hit to a flaming magi staff? What is the subjective value of the sv_spell of a heartstone or of a kern book? What is the subjective value of the no-charm of a heartstone? What is the subjective value of the magic resistance from a gnomish anti-magic device? What is the subjective value of dealing a little damage and having a fun proc with an orb of annihilation? Limiting the choices to simply +hp +int_max items is effectively assigning a value of Zero to all of these, which is very subjective.
You don't need to compare hats and swords to find subjective value in a comparison. Your stated comparison of +hitpoints and +int_max in the held slot is flawed, as that is not the true opportunity cost of wielding the ravenar staff. The true opportunity cost is all available items for the single wielded slot that a mage has available. I only listed things that a mage is likely to be using in that slot, leaving out the things people would be less likely to choose, but I think I've done more than prove that a comparison among items is a very subjective process.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm not seeing where you proved that comparing items is so subjective. Anyone who can count and subtract can see when something has more of a stat than something else. In this case, the ravenar staff has more hitpoints than every other 1h held item sans tiamat staff. Ravenar staff is easier to get, than the best items in its field. Thus, it is unbalanced. Nerf it rotten!
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-Yayaril
<B>What is the subjective value of it being a weapon as opposed to a held, and therefore only one being usable at a time? What is the subjective value of it being cursed and causing all of the problems a cursed item has? Barring that, what is the subjective value of being able to fumble it? What is the subjective value of no-summon from a flaming magi staff? What is the subjective value of the +hit to a flaming magi staff? What is the subjective value of the sv_spell of a heartstone or of a kern book? What is the subjective value of the no-charm of a heartstone? What is the subjective value of the magic resistance from a gnomish anti-magic device? What is the subjective value of dealing a little damage and having a fun proc with an orb of annihilation? Limiting the choices to simply +hp +int_max items is effectively assigning a value of Zero to all of these, which is very subjective.
You don't need to compare hats and swords to find subjective value in a comparison. Your stated comparison of +hitpoints and +int_max in the held slot is flawed, as that is not the true opportunity cost of wielding the ravenar staff. The true opportunity cost is all available items for the single wielded slot that a mage has available. I only listed things that a mage is likely to be using in that slot, leaving out the things people would be less likely to choose, but I think I've done more than prove that a comparison among items is a very subjective process.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm not seeing where you proved that comparing items is so subjective. Anyone who can count and subtract can see when something has more of a stat than something else. In this case, the ravenar staff has more hitpoints than every other 1h held item sans tiamat staff. Ravenar staff is easier to get, than the best items in its field. Thus, it is unbalanced. Nerf it rotten!
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-Yayaril
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Yayaril:
I'm not seeing where you proved that comparing items is so subjective. Anyone who can count and subtract can see when something has more of a stat than something else.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Apparently I didn't do a very good job of explaining myself. Allow me to elaborate.
First of all, once again the point that the ravenar staff is indeed not a held, but a wielded, was ignored. The wielded slot is significantly different from the held slot in that items that take this slot, only one can be used at a time, and if that item is used in this slot, it has the possibility of being fumbled to the ground, or, barring that, cursed and causing problems for your inventory. The value of an item is increased if it is held as opposed to wielded. The hassles of cursing or fumbling are removed (a negative impact on the value of the ravenar staff) and the item is able to be held in both hands (a positive impact on the value of the held item as opposed to the ravenar staff).
In addition to this, you are merely comparing the ravenar staff to its absolutely closest relatives, the orbs, which are all +hp and +int_max. Considering the relatively large number of items for the -similar- slot of held items, the ravenar staff may seem to be better than all of them, -if you assign zero value to the wielded slot vs. held slot-. That is a subjective judgement, and one that you chose to make, therefore already making this comparison subjective.
However, there is a truly staggering number of items that can be used for this wielded slot. Among these are items of very similar affects, including the exact same int_max bonus, large sv_spell bonuses, hps within range of the staff, and properties such as no-summon and no-charm. When comparing the ravenar staff to other available items, all things that can be used in its place -must be compared to it- in order to provide a valid excuse for a downgrade or upgrade. If all available items are not compared to it, then the situation is being examined with tunnel vision.
This is, in effect, saying "All I care about is hitpoints and int_max." This, however, is empirically equivalent to saying: "I don't care about magic resistance." - Assigning zero value to it, subjectively. "I don't care about sv_spell." - Assigning zero value to it, subjectively. "I don't care about no-summon." - Assigning zero value to it, subjectively. "I don't care about hitroll." - Assigning zero value to it, subjectively. "I don't care about no-charm, procs, the held vs. wielded slot, or anything else you might say can fit in this slot." - Assigning zero value to everything other than hitpoints and int_max, subjectively.
I remove my ravenar staff, because at times no-summon is subjectively more valuable to me. Sometimes I wield my flaming magi staff, sometimes I hold a heartstone of sakaslan. If I had a gnomish anti-magic device, I might try that out too. This is because, to me, the subjective value of these alternate properties can exceed the value of int_max and hitpoints given by the ravenar staff under the correct situations.
Comparing equipment isn't quite as easy as you say it is.
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-Todrael Azz'miala, Ravager
I'm not seeing where you proved that comparing items is so subjective. Anyone who can count and subtract can see when something has more of a stat than something else.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Apparently I didn't do a very good job of explaining myself. Allow me to elaborate.
First of all, once again the point that the ravenar staff is indeed not a held, but a wielded, was ignored. The wielded slot is significantly different from the held slot in that items that take this slot, only one can be used at a time, and if that item is used in this slot, it has the possibility of being fumbled to the ground, or, barring that, cursed and causing problems for your inventory. The value of an item is increased if it is held as opposed to wielded. The hassles of cursing or fumbling are removed (a negative impact on the value of the ravenar staff) and the item is able to be held in both hands (a positive impact on the value of the held item as opposed to the ravenar staff).
In addition to this, you are merely comparing the ravenar staff to its absolutely closest relatives, the orbs, which are all +hp and +int_max. Considering the relatively large number of items for the -similar- slot of held items, the ravenar staff may seem to be better than all of them, -if you assign zero value to the wielded slot vs. held slot-. That is a subjective judgement, and one that you chose to make, therefore already making this comparison subjective.
However, there is a truly staggering number of items that can be used for this wielded slot. Among these are items of very similar affects, including the exact same int_max bonus, large sv_spell bonuses, hps within range of the staff, and properties such as no-summon and no-charm. When comparing the ravenar staff to other available items, all things that can be used in its place -must be compared to it- in order to provide a valid excuse for a downgrade or upgrade. If all available items are not compared to it, then the situation is being examined with tunnel vision.
This is, in effect, saying "All I care about is hitpoints and int_max." This, however, is empirically equivalent to saying: "I don't care about magic resistance." - Assigning zero value to it, subjectively. "I don't care about sv_spell." - Assigning zero value to it, subjectively. "I don't care about no-summon." - Assigning zero value to it, subjectively. "I don't care about hitroll." - Assigning zero value to it, subjectively. "I don't care about no-charm, procs, the held vs. wielded slot, or anything else you might say can fit in this slot." - Assigning zero value to everything other than hitpoints and int_max, subjectively.
I remove my ravenar staff, because at times no-summon is subjectively more valuable to me. Sometimes I wield my flaming magi staff, sometimes I hold a heartstone of sakaslan. If I had a gnomish anti-magic device, I might try that out too. This is because, to me, the subjective value of these alternate properties can exceed the value of int_max and hitpoints given by the ravenar staff under the correct situations.
Comparing equipment isn't quite as easy as you say it is.
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-Todrael Azz'miala, Ravager
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dugmaren:
<B>Nono, don't agree yet! I have popcorn left. Continue to completely ignore any valid points brought up and turn it into a evils vs. goodies debate. Wait wait.. even better, lets talk about upgrading rangers!!
*munches on popcorn*</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'd rather talk about upgrading invokers. Anyone else?
But, here's an interesting thing.. When evils posted around about how there were no evil-usable footwear of the caliber of ice-bear boots, earlier this wipe, we shortly saw several boots of superior caliber (some evil usable) enter the game (And only a little flaming about how there are +1+1 boots or something else unproductive). But a similar discrepancy, the other way, is met with scorn. Hmmm. And that was over one damroll, on a slot with only one item available.
Regards,
Jorus
<B>Nono, don't agree yet! I have popcorn left. Continue to completely ignore any valid points brought up and turn it into a evils vs. goodies debate. Wait wait.. even better, lets talk about upgrading rangers!!
*munches on popcorn*</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'd rather talk about upgrading invokers. Anyone else?
But, here's an interesting thing.. When evils posted around about how there were no evil-usable footwear of the caliber of ice-bear boots, earlier this wipe, we shortly saw several boots of superior caliber (some evil usable) enter the game (And only a little flaming about how there are +1+1 boots or something else unproductive). But a similar discrepancy, the other way, is met with scorn. Hmmm. And that was over one damroll, on a slot with only one item available.
Regards,
Jorus
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jorus:
But, here's an interesting thing.. When evils posted around about how there were no evil-usable footwear of the caliber of ice-bear boots, earlier this wipe, we shortly saw several boots of superior caliber (some evil usable) enter the game (And only a little flaming about how there are +1+1 boots or something else unproductive). But a similar discrepancy, the other way, is met with scorn. Hmmm. And that was over one damroll, on a slot with only one item available.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I can't help but think you're actually serious with this post. In which case, I find it to be the funniest in this thread by far.
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-Todrael Azz'miala, Ravager
But, here's an interesting thing.. When evils posted around about how there were no evil-usable footwear of the caliber of ice-bear boots, earlier this wipe, we shortly saw several boots of superior caliber (some evil usable) enter the game (And only a little flaming about how there are +1+1 boots or something else unproductive). But a similar discrepancy, the other way, is met with scorn. Hmmm. And that was over one damroll, on a slot with only one item available.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I can't help but think you're actually serious with this post. In which case, I find it to be the funniest in this thread by far.
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-Todrael Azz'miala, Ravager
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Todrael:
<B> Apparently I didn't do a very good job of explaining myself. Allow me to elaborate.
<snipped a buncha stuff>
Comparing equipment isn't quite as easy as you say it is.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Which is another way of avoiding naming any good usable items that provide similar benefits.
Doesn't the fact that when looking at nearly any 10 high-level evil mages, 9 of them will have and be wielding a ravenar staff, as opposed to something a goodrace could use indicate something about the "superiority" (objective or subjective) of the item?
I seem to recall someone saying at some point, that when an item becomes the clear first choice for a slot, there is a balance issue -- either more competition for the slot needs to be added, or the item needs to be toned down.
Regards,
Jorus
<B> Apparently I didn't do a very good job of explaining myself. Allow me to elaborate.
<snipped a buncha stuff>
Comparing equipment isn't quite as easy as you say it is.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Which is another way of avoiding naming any good usable items that provide similar benefits.
Doesn't the fact that when looking at nearly any 10 high-level evil mages, 9 of them will have and be wielding a ravenar staff, as opposed to something a goodrace could use indicate something about the "superiority" (objective or subjective) of the item?
I seem to recall someone saying at some point, that when an item becomes the clear first choice for a slot, there is a balance issue -- either more competition for the slot needs to be added, or the item needs to be toned down.
Regards,
Jorus
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Todrael:
If I had a gnomish anti-magic device, I might try that out too. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I've got one of those!!!! They're much more spiffy than any old ravenar staffie thingie.
If I had a gnomish anti-magic device, I might try that out too. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I've got one of those!!!! They're much more spiffy than any old ravenar staffie thingie.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jorus:
Which is another way of avoiding naming any good usable items that provide similar benefits.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I named many items that could be considered -by some- to be of equivalent value.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jorus:
Doesn't the fact that when looking at nearly any 10 high-level evil mages, 9 of them will have and be wielding a ravenar staff, as opposed to something a goodrace could use indicate something about the "superiority" (objective or subjective) of the item?</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, it does. I wield it 95% of the time, and I doubt that will be changing in the future. It's a good item. There are lots of good items.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jorus:
I seem to recall someone saying at some point, that when an item becomes the clear first choice for a slot, there is a balance issue -- either more competition for the slot needs to be added, or the item needs to be toned down.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree. However, ravenar is not the 'clear first choice.' I've already stated my reasoning behind that statement.
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-Todrael Azz'miala, Ravager
Which is another way of avoiding naming any good usable items that provide similar benefits.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I named many items that could be considered -by some- to be of equivalent value.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jorus:
Doesn't the fact that when looking at nearly any 10 high-level evil mages, 9 of them will have and be wielding a ravenar staff, as opposed to something a goodrace could use indicate something about the "superiority" (objective or subjective) of the item?</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, it does. I wield it 95% of the time, and I doubt that will be changing in the future. It's a good item. There are lots of good items.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jorus:
I seem to recall someone saying at some point, that when an item becomes the clear first choice for a slot, there is a balance issue -- either more competition for the slot needs to be added, or the item needs to be toned down.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree. However, ravenar is not the 'clear first choice.' I've already stated my reasoning behind that statement.
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-Todrael Azz'miala, Ravager
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Todrael:
<B> I named many items that could be considered -by some- to be of equivalent value.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And is that just a funny way of wording "provides similar benefits"? It doesn't sound like it to me. How many hps does the ravenar staff give? How much max_int? Are there any good-usable held/wielded items that can compete in these areas? Don't bother with double-speak about the magi staff being useful over the ravenar in some situations -- that's not at issue at all.
We're not talking about "value" or if there are other items you might use instead in some situations, or good-usable items that have different things (nosummon, +hit, saves, other flags?). We are talking about there being items as good as the ravenar staff is at what it is good at.
The primary concern, imo, is the hitpoints. Just how bad is it?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Todrael:
<B>Yes, it does. I wield it 95% of the time, and I doubt that will be changing in the future. It's a good item. There are lots of good items.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Good enough to be wielded 95% of the time. So you swap it out when you need nosummon, or the extra hitroll from the magi staff, or a held item you can't fumble. Hoorah for magi-staff not being "superior".
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Todrael:
<B>
I agree. However, ravenar is not the 'clear first choice.' I've already stated my reasoning behind that statement.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And despite this you use it "95% of the time". Interesting usage pattern for non top-notch equipment. 'scuse me while I switch my elven collar for an adamantium neckguard, which clearly has situational advantages such as when I need to get summoned, making the elven collar clearly not better than the adamantium neckguard.
Regards,
Jorus
<B> I named many items that could be considered -by some- to be of equivalent value.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And is that just a funny way of wording "provides similar benefits"? It doesn't sound like it to me. How many hps does the ravenar staff give? How much max_int? Are there any good-usable held/wielded items that can compete in these areas? Don't bother with double-speak about the magi staff being useful over the ravenar in some situations -- that's not at issue at all.
We're not talking about "value" or if there are other items you might use instead in some situations, or good-usable items that have different things (nosummon, +hit, saves, other flags?). We are talking about there being items as good as the ravenar staff is at what it is good at.
The primary concern, imo, is the hitpoints. Just how bad is it?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Todrael:
<B>Yes, it does. I wield it 95% of the time, and I doubt that will be changing in the future. It's a good item. There are lots of good items.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Good enough to be wielded 95% of the time. So you swap it out when you need nosummon, or the extra hitroll from the magi staff, or a held item you can't fumble. Hoorah for magi-staff not being "superior".
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Todrael:
<B>
I agree. However, ravenar is not the 'clear first choice.' I've already stated my reasoning behind that statement.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And despite this you use it "95% of the time". Interesting usage pattern for non top-notch equipment. 'scuse me while I switch my elven collar for an adamantium neckguard, which clearly has situational advantages such as when I need to get summoned, making the elven collar clearly not better than the adamantium neckguard.
Regards,
Jorus
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Todrael:
<B> Apparently I didn't do a very good job of explaining myself. Allow me to elaborate.
First of all, once again the point that the ravenar staff is indeed not a held, but a wielded, was ignored. The wielded slot is significantly different from the held slot in that items that take this slot, only one can be used at a time, and if that item is used in this slot, it has the possibility of being fumbled to the ground, or, barring that, cursed and causing problems for your inventory. The value of an item is increased if it is held as opposed to wielded. The hassles of cursing or fumbling are removed (a negative impact on the value of the ravenar staff) and the item is able to be held in both hands (a positive impact on the value of the held item as opposed to the ravenar staff).
In addition to this, you are merely comparing the ravenar staff to its absolutely closest relatives, the orbs, which are all +hp and +int_max. Considering the relatively large number of items for the -similar- slot of held items, the ravenar staff may seem to be better than all of them, -if you assign zero value to the wielded slot vs. held slot-. That is a subjective judgement, and one that you chose to make, therefore already making this comparison subjective.
However, there is a truly staggering number of items that can be used for this wielded slot. Among these are items of very similar affects, including the exact same int_max bonus, large sv_spell bonuses, hps within range of the staff, and properties such as no-summon and no-charm. When comparing the ravenar staff to other available items, all things that can be used in its place -must be compared to it- in order to provide a valid excuse for a downgrade or upgrade. If all available items are not compared to it, then the situation is being examined with tunnel vision.
This is, in effect, saying "All I care about is hitpoints and int_max." This, however, is empirically equivalent to saying: "I don't care about magic resistance." - Assigning zero value to it, subjectively. "I don't care about sv_spell." - Assigning zero value to it, subjectively. "I don't care about no-summon." - Assigning zero value to it, subjectively. "I don't care about hitroll." - Assigning zero value to it, subjectively. "I don't care about no-charm, procs, the held vs. wielded slot, or anything else you might say can fit in this slot." - Assigning zero value to everything other than hitpoints and int_max, subjectively.
I remove my ravenar staff, because at times no-summon is subjectively more valuable to me. Sometimes I wield my flaming magi staff, sometimes I hold a heartstone of sakaslan. If I had a gnomish anti-magic device, I might try that out too. This is because, to me, the subjective value of these alternate properties can exceed the value of int_max and hitpoints given by the ravenar staff under the correct situations.
Comparing equipment isn't quite as easy as you say it is.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have no clue what you're talking about here. Comparing equipment has always been easy for me, and always will continue to be easy. An item with more hps than another item of the same slot, and has no drawbacks, is superior, stat-wise. The ravenar staff has more hps than anything else that can be held 1h (except tiamat staff, as I've said before), thus it is superior. Higher = better. The ravenar staff is easier to retrieve than the next best item, thus is unbalanced. It should be nerfed until it is balanced with the rest of the items in its field. The ravenar staff should probably have about 30hps, that way it's on par with other things that are equally difficult to get.
------------------
-Yayaril
<B> Apparently I didn't do a very good job of explaining myself. Allow me to elaborate.
First of all, once again the point that the ravenar staff is indeed not a held, but a wielded, was ignored. The wielded slot is significantly different from the held slot in that items that take this slot, only one can be used at a time, and if that item is used in this slot, it has the possibility of being fumbled to the ground, or, barring that, cursed and causing problems for your inventory. The value of an item is increased if it is held as opposed to wielded. The hassles of cursing or fumbling are removed (a negative impact on the value of the ravenar staff) and the item is able to be held in both hands (a positive impact on the value of the held item as opposed to the ravenar staff).
In addition to this, you are merely comparing the ravenar staff to its absolutely closest relatives, the orbs, which are all +hp and +int_max. Considering the relatively large number of items for the -similar- slot of held items, the ravenar staff may seem to be better than all of them, -if you assign zero value to the wielded slot vs. held slot-. That is a subjective judgement, and one that you chose to make, therefore already making this comparison subjective.
However, there is a truly staggering number of items that can be used for this wielded slot. Among these are items of very similar affects, including the exact same int_max bonus, large sv_spell bonuses, hps within range of the staff, and properties such as no-summon and no-charm. When comparing the ravenar staff to other available items, all things that can be used in its place -must be compared to it- in order to provide a valid excuse for a downgrade or upgrade. If all available items are not compared to it, then the situation is being examined with tunnel vision.
This is, in effect, saying "All I care about is hitpoints and int_max." This, however, is empirically equivalent to saying: "I don't care about magic resistance." - Assigning zero value to it, subjectively. "I don't care about sv_spell." - Assigning zero value to it, subjectively. "I don't care about no-summon." - Assigning zero value to it, subjectively. "I don't care about hitroll." - Assigning zero value to it, subjectively. "I don't care about no-charm, procs, the held vs. wielded slot, or anything else you might say can fit in this slot." - Assigning zero value to everything other than hitpoints and int_max, subjectively.
I remove my ravenar staff, because at times no-summon is subjectively more valuable to me. Sometimes I wield my flaming magi staff, sometimes I hold a heartstone of sakaslan. If I had a gnomish anti-magic device, I might try that out too. This is because, to me, the subjective value of these alternate properties can exceed the value of int_max and hitpoints given by the ravenar staff under the correct situations.
Comparing equipment isn't quite as easy as you say it is.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have no clue what you're talking about here. Comparing equipment has always been easy for me, and always will continue to be easy. An item with more hps than another item of the same slot, and has no drawbacks, is superior, stat-wise. The ravenar staff has more hps than anything else that can be held 1h (except tiamat staff, as I've said before), thus it is superior. Higher = better. The ravenar staff is easier to retrieve than the next best item, thus is unbalanced. It should be nerfed until it is balanced with the rest of the items in its field. The ravenar staff should probably have about 30hps, that way it's on par with other things that are equally difficult to get.
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-Yayaril
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
<B> Sure, if you write a goodie zone with an equivalent piece of equipment. Not that this would effect me, actually. Just trying for equality.
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Fireplane has such an item.
<B> Sure, if you write a goodie zone with an equivalent piece of equipment. Not that this would effect me, actually. Just trying for equality.
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Fireplane has such an item.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jorus:
'scuse me while I switch my elven collar for an adamantium neckguard, which clearly has situational advantages such as when I need to get summoned, making the elven collar clearly not better than the adamantium neckguard.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well you're right. Adamantium neckguard > elven collar. Elven collar is fugly, and is elfrace only. Elves themselves are pretty hot, but my god their equipment is nasty!
'scuse me while I switch my elven collar for an adamantium neckguard, which clearly has situational advantages such as when I need to get summoned, making the elven collar clearly not better than the adamantium neckguard.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well you're right. Adamantium neckguard > elven collar. Elven collar is fugly, and is elfrace only. Elves themselves are pretty hot, but my god their equipment is nasty!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by rylan:
Well you're right. Adamantium neckguard > elven collar. Elven collar is fugly, and is elfrace only. Elves themselves are pretty hot, but my god their equipment is nasty!</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Trade you an addy neckguard for three elven collars!
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You tell Ushug 'err... spankmistress??'
Ushug tells you 'you can't help it, I've always thought of mori as a chick'
Well you're right. Adamantium neckguard > elven collar. Elven collar is fugly, and is elfrace only. Elves themselves are pretty hot, but my god their equipment is nasty!</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Trade you an addy neckguard for three elven collars!
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You tell Ushug 'err... spankmistress??'
Ushug tells you 'you can't help it, I've always thought of mori as a chick'
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