One of the major unbalancing factors right now is how much magical damage can do. Now a lot of people have thought of various ways to limit this however. Usually this involves a downgrade for this class or that class. I'd like to propose something different.
If you take a look at melee classes, all of their abilities and stats tie in together really well. If they have low con, they'll generally have fewer hp, if they have low dex they'll generally hit less frequently. So how come some type of system like this isn't implemented for mages?
What I'd like to see is various stats, tie in with magic casting.
- DEX -> magic tie in
For instance, dexterity should tie into the quick chant for spells. If a mage can get 100 DEX (racially defined) then he should cast faster than a mage with 50 DEX.
- CON
If a mage casts DOT (damage over time spells) the time that such a spell lasts (or even damage) should be affected by stats like CON, because they'd need some kind of extra focus for the magical energies draining from them over time? (well since no one really knows the way magics work this could be a semi plausable explanation :P)
- INT / WIS
Probably INT/WIS should tie in overall to how many spells a caster can have memorized at one time. Class dependant of course, clerical vs. magikal(?)
- STR
- AGL
- POW
Since I personally can't really define what this stat should be, I'll just say to toss this into the caster ability to conjur/summon up larger sized pets, or higher level pets.
I'll edit this one later, after i think this through some more, but just thought this might be interesting to see implemented.
Perhaps a simpler version would just be to tie in the different spellcasts with stats.
More drastic proposals, magics
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Sizzraxxil
- Sojourner
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Stittsbille, Ontario, Canada
The only problem I see with this idea is that the equipment exisiting in the game wouldn't really support it. What I mean by that is there is lots of equipment for warriors/melee classes that is +hit/dam and also a stat, however there isn't that much equipment for mages that would be +hps and a stat like dex or whatever plus if you suddenly implement this a lot of people wouldn't have rolled their characters with stats geared towards this and would have to reroll their characters... otherwise its not a bad idea
And that exactly is the crux of the idea 
The idea is to allow for MORE equipment variety. Right now, an eq with +stat is such a joke. The only important stats are +hp, +mana(to limited extent) and _maybe_ +int/+wis.
With other stats so firmly intertwined between the characters and their abilities, it should force players to re-evaluate their equipment needs for their play style and their character stats. Thus a ring with 55 hp might not be as good as one with 40hp +10 DEX. etc.
As for players, well could offer them a one time reroll for characters. Yes, I can't even begin to imagine how many people have alts so I can put up such an off idea :P
I'm a firm believer that equipment defines every player and that equipment variety defines the "replay" value of a mud. Else it may as well be a chat server.
The idea is to allow for MORE equipment variety. Right now, an eq with +stat is such a joke. The only important stats are +hp, +mana(to limited extent) and _maybe_ +int/+wis.
With other stats so firmly intertwined between the characters and their abilities, it should force players to re-evaluate their equipment needs for their play style and their character stats. Thus a ring with 55 hp might not be as good as one with 40hp +10 DEX. etc.
As for players, well could offer them a one time reroll for characters. Yes, I can't even begin to imagine how many people have alts so I can put up such an off idea :P
I'm a firm believer that equipment defines every player and that equipment variety defines the "replay" value of a mud. Else it may as well be a chat server.
The major problem here is that people have been rolling casters for over a year under the impression that stats such as str, dex, and con have no bearing on the effectiveness of their spells. It would cause a lot of bad feelings if such a change were to be implemented at this point in the game.
Before beta started, jurdex, mplor, and myself proposed a system where spell damage would be effected in part by the amount of hitpoints a mage was wearing. The goal was to tie spell damage to worn equipment in the manner that melee damage is tied to the equipment that a hitter wears. Additionally, we hoped that such a system would act as a limiting factor on spell damage. Admitedly, using hit points as a measuring stick is less than ideal for a number of reasons. However, creating a new bonus or stat wasn't feasible because of the huge amount of existing items that would have to be modified. It seemed like the best possible existing stat to measure a mage's effectiveness by would be hitpoints since this is the stat that mages try to increase through equipment. One major down side of such a scheme would be that hit point eq would become even more valuable, at the expense of other types of eq such as prots, AC, and sv_spell/breath.
Of course, this proposal went nowhere. I still think something similar is needed, perhaps more so now than ever. Melee damage is basically a waste of space on this mud, since spell damage is so much more effective. Big bad warriors pile on loads of hitpoints and don't even pretend that they actually hurt anything with their big bad swords. The reason for this disparity is that casters were given more offense, while at the same time, the 30 second mem penalty was lifted. That was like a double bonus, while melee was not changed at all. Something is going to have to be done to limit spell damage at some point...
Corth
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Goddamned slippery mage.
Before beta started, jurdex, mplor, and myself proposed a system where spell damage would be effected in part by the amount of hitpoints a mage was wearing. The goal was to tie spell damage to worn equipment in the manner that melee damage is tied to the equipment that a hitter wears. Additionally, we hoped that such a system would act as a limiting factor on spell damage. Admitedly, using hit points as a measuring stick is less than ideal for a number of reasons. However, creating a new bonus or stat wasn't feasible because of the huge amount of existing items that would have to be modified. It seemed like the best possible existing stat to measure a mage's effectiveness by would be hitpoints since this is the stat that mages try to increase through equipment. One major down side of such a scheme would be that hit point eq would become even more valuable, at the expense of other types of eq such as prots, AC, and sv_spell/breath.
Of course, this proposal went nowhere. I still think something similar is needed, perhaps more so now than ever. Melee damage is basically a waste of space on this mud, since spell damage is so much more effective. Big bad warriors pile on loads of hitpoints and don't even pretend that they actually hurt anything with their big bad swords. The reason for this disparity is that casters were given more offense, while at the same time, the 30 second mem penalty was lifted. That was like a double bonus, while melee was not changed at all. Something is going to have to be done to limit spell damage at some point...
Corth
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Goddamned slippery mage.
At this point as a warrior, I can't solo, nor compete with mages. I wear all the hp gear I can, and it's easy as hell to get 100 in any stat you want. For many, many months I deluded myself in zones thinking that hasting me was important, or that my weapons were useful. Sad to see twilights bagged so often, that damn sword should be a trophy piece. I now have learned the truth behind warriors - our goal should be to get the most hit points and saves as possible while looking as cool as can be done.
That being said . . . can I have a 2h sword that procs lvl 46 force missiles on crit strikes?
That being said . . . can I have a 2h sword that procs lvl 46 force missiles on crit strikes?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Daz:
<B> I now have learned the truth behind warriors - our goal should be to get the most hit points and saves as possible while looking as cool as can be done.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hate to say I told you so, but I *did* try to warn all the warriors when they were clamoring for PCtanking...
And Rivi... the problem is not that it would allow for more variety of eq, the problem is that it would make most existing eq utterly useless, require a ton of people to reroll for decent dex, etc. Not what I'd consider a really healthy change to make. "Guess what, your 150-day-ptime, level 50 lich has to be rerolled to get better stats" isn't exactly fair. I don't know if you've played very long and thus have thought all these angles over.
The term "DOT" is an Everquest term. In case you haven't noticed, the only DOT here beside firewave/icewave/inferno is the poison spell, which is absurdly weak and basically cast as a joke or when soloing to reduce strength. Fire/icewave and inferno have already been balanced to the imms' satisfaction.
There are also, by and large, no "Root" spells (aside from entangle, which can be persuaded to work in nature, or that weapon proc). It really is somewhat different from Everquest.
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You tell Ushug 'err... spankmistress??'
Ushug tells you 'you can't help it, I've always thought of mori as a chick'
<B> I now have learned the truth behind warriors - our goal should be to get the most hit points and saves as possible while looking as cool as can be done.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hate to say I told you so, but I *did* try to warn all the warriors when they were clamoring for PCtanking...
And Rivi... the problem is not that it would allow for more variety of eq, the problem is that it would make most existing eq utterly useless, require a ton of people to reroll for decent dex, etc. Not what I'd consider a really healthy change to make. "Guess what, your 150-day-ptime, level 50 lich has to be rerolled to get better stats" isn't exactly fair. I don't know if you've played very long and thus have thought all these angles over.
The term "DOT" is an Everquest term. In case you haven't noticed, the only DOT here beside firewave/icewave/inferno is the poison spell, which is absurdly weak and basically cast as a joke or when soloing to reduce strength. Fire/icewave and inferno have already been balanced to the imms' satisfaction.
There are also, by and large, no "Root" spells (aside from entangle, which can be persuaded to work in nature, or that weapon proc). It really is somewhat different from Everquest.
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You tell Ushug 'err... spankmistress??'
Ushug tells you 'you can't help it, I've always thought of mori as a chick'
PS - in explanation of my above post - Everquest involves a little more twink-style strategy, and thus many classes rely on their DOT spells and Root-style spells.
To make a radical change to Soj, would, imho, be making it a different game, albeit in a subtle fashion.
Suddenly those +stat cloaks from Brass would be uber, for example, instead of being regularly sold to shop or handed out to newbies.
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You tell Ushug 'err... spankmistress??'
Ushug tells you 'you can't help it, I've always thought of mori as a chick'
To make a radical change to Soj, would, imho, be making it a different game, albeit in a subtle fashion.
Suddenly those +stat cloaks from Brass would be uber, for example, instead of being regularly sold to shop or handed out to newbies.
------------------
You tell Ushug 'err... spankmistress??'
Ushug tells you 'you can't help it, I've always thought of mori as a chick'
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Sizzraxxil
- Sojourner
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Stittsbille, Ontario, Canada
I've thought of a lot of things to say to morithiel, but I think this sums it up the most. Don't take what I'm posting as finalized ideas, what you need to do is to take my ideas and see what venues they can open up and how they can change gameplay.
Consider the various possibilities such an implementation could create. Supposed you were able to create sets of equipment for your ONE casting character in order to have them more effective in differing roles.
As for having to feel bad for those casters, such an implementation could utilize the stats above the 100 max in order to be really effective. Thus a 100 stat would be the baseline gauge, that way you'll have people struggling to be like the "norm" and you'll have other people who have even better stats that will allow them to cast their spells with better effect.
It could be simple small things. Spells that DOT, or have a duration, could last longer, or secondary effects could happen with more frequency. I think having extra reasons to collect equipment, other than the current standing ones (hp, sp sv, br sv) could go a long way in adding variety to this game.
Consider the various possibilities such an implementation could create. Supposed you were able to create sets of equipment for your ONE casting character in order to have them more effective in differing roles.
As for having to feel bad for those casters, such an implementation could utilize the stats above the 100 max in order to be really effective. Thus a 100 stat would be the baseline gauge, that way you'll have people struggling to be like the "norm" and you'll have other people who have even better stats that will allow them to cast their spells with better effect.
It could be simple small things. Spells that DOT, or have a duration, could last longer, or secondary effects could happen with more frequency. I think having extra reasons to collect equipment, other than the current standing ones (hp, sp sv, br sv) could go a long way in adding variety to this game.
This is an excellent idea, for a different game. This is one of those changes you know would never be able to work during a wipe in progress, but other games of the genre should acknowledge the naked-mage syndrome when building their core system.
Had the forgers foreseen this issue back in the wee early days of sojourn, stats could have been coded to affect casting and items going into zones could have allowed for more stat diversity. As it is though, changing to this system would screw dozens of people, and it would instantly make 75% of the caster equipment found on the mud right now completely obsolete.
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- Ragorn
Rondandal tells you 'I take it your goal is to clash?'
Had the forgers foreseen this issue back in the wee early days of sojourn, stats could have been coded to affect casting and items going into zones could have allowed for more stat diversity. As it is though, changing to this system would screw dozens of people, and it would instantly make 75% of the caster equipment found on the mud right now completely obsolete.
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- Ragorn
Rondandal tells you 'I take it your goal is to clash?'
Not if you base spell power on e.g. save_rod or hitroll. This way it is not dependent on a physical attribute which was probably rolled low anyway, but you can influence it with equipment.
To do this would allow for much more diversity, and it would accomplish two important things.
1) Mages would have to sacrifice some +hp equipment to wear e.g. blue adamantite bracers or save_rod equipment, which means they no longer have 900hp but 'only' 700 or so. This is a good thing as the combined effect of top end +hp equipment is really getting silly.
2) If we make it so that maximum spell damage would only be achieved (if you get the right dice roll, of course) with e.g. -15vsRod or +20hit (players don't need to know the exact amount), it would slightly decrease area spell power because most mages would probably not go this far in sacrificing hitpoints. Everyone knows area spells are much, much too powerful but nothing is being done about it yet, this would be a nice solution IMO.
I don't see the solution being based on +hp equipment. While this is an excellent start, and it would prevent mages from being as powerful both naked and equipped, 99% of the time they are wearing their perfect set and the only effect would be in CRs.
However if we base it on hitroll or save_rod, they would still be weaker for CRs but they would also be slightly less powerful while equipped, unless they sacrifice 'much' +hp +maxint for +hit of -save_rod eq.
It would give you another choice instead of just wearing +hp +hp +hp +maxint +hp, just like warriors have to choose between +hp, +hit/dam and saves. We no longer have the luxury to wear only hit/dam, nor can we only wear +hp, so it is only logical that the same applies to casters.
Comments? I would love to hear from the imms, I'm sure they are looking for a solution to make areas less powerful and make spell damage based on something.
[This message has been edited by cherzra (edited 10-31-2002).]
To do this would allow for much more diversity, and it would accomplish two important things.
1) Mages would have to sacrifice some +hp equipment to wear e.g. blue adamantite bracers or save_rod equipment, which means they no longer have 900hp but 'only' 700 or so. This is a good thing as the combined effect of top end +hp equipment is really getting silly.
2) If we make it so that maximum spell damage would only be achieved (if you get the right dice roll, of course) with e.g. -15vsRod or +20hit (players don't need to know the exact amount), it would slightly decrease area spell power because most mages would probably not go this far in sacrificing hitpoints. Everyone knows area spells are much, much too powerful but nothing is being done about it yet, this would be a nice solution IMO.
I don't see the solution being based on +hp equipment. While this is an excellent start, and it would prevent mages from being as powerful both naked and equipped, 99% of the time they are wearing their perfect set and the only effect would be in CRs.
However if we base it on hitroll or save_rod, they would still be weaker for CRs but they would also be slightly less powerful while equipped, unless they sacrifice 'much' +hp +maxint for +hit of -save_rod eq.
It would give you another choice instead of just wearing +hp +hp +hp +maxint +hp, just like warriors have to choose between +hp, +hit/dam and saves. We no longer have the luxury to wear only hit/dam, nor can we only wear +hp, so it is only logical that the same applies to casters.
Comments? I would love to hear from the imms, I'm sure they are looking for a solution to make areas less powerful and make spell damage based on something.
[This message has been edited by cherzra (edited 10-31-2002).]
*peer*
Last time I tried suggesting this...
Bah! First everyone loves the idea of tying mage damage to eq, then I find a good way to do it and everyone think's it's unnecessary and hates it. Now everyone's wants to do it again. Can't you people make up yer minds?
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Every problem in the universe can be solved by finding the right long-haired prettyboy and beating the crap out of him.
Last time I tried suggesting this...
Bah! First everyone loves the idea of tying mage damage to eq, then I find a good way to do it and everyone think's it's unnecessary and hates it. Now everyone's wants to do it again. Can't you people make up yer minds?
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Every problem in the universe can be solved by finding the right long-haired prettyboy and beating the crap out of him.
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Silsaterur
- Sojourner
- Posts: 195
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 6:01 am
- Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
You are complaining about caster damage being to high? I would like to see the last recorded incedent (pods excluded) where a warrior single handedly wasted an entire city.
Spellcasters are the most powerful mortal beings on Faerun, and it takes them a long time to get that power. (Huge exp table.)
As I see it, the two go hand in hand. I really don't care what happens outside of, you DG the class, you DG the exp table.
Spellcasters are the most powerful mortal beings on Faerun, and it takes them a long time to get that power. (Huge exp table.)
As I see it, the two go hand in hand. I really don't care what happens outside of, you DG the class, you DG the exp table.
not suggesting anything by this post, just innocent halfling commentary -
don't think its the magic system that is overpowering (anything you create overtime will become unbalanced eventually), have you done a who lately (dont be fooled by the 8 guys that are under 20th level, i actually tracked all folks down that were under 20th lvl the other day and only three werent an alt). i've been in many groups to do very basic zones where as a lvl 48 chanter with decent eq im the lowest level and worst equipped player in the group - over the last several years the average player strength has gotten considerably higher, things are much easier when your full group is 50th lvl and well equipped...any adjustments you make will make it even that much harder for starting mages to get off the ground...
nedle the halfling chanter
don't think its the magic system that is overpowering (anything you create overtime will become unbalanced eventually), have you done a who lately (dont be fooled by the 8 guys that are under 20th level, i actually tracked all folks down that were under 20th lvl the other day and only three werent an alt). i've been in many groups to do very basic zones where as a lvl 48 chanter with decent eq im the lowest level and worst equipped player in the group - over the last several years the average player strength has gotten considerably higher, things are much easier when your full group is 50th lvl and well equipped...any adjustments you make will make it even that much harder for starting mages to get off the ground...
nedle the halfling chanter
Silsateur
Your recommendation is different from my idea in that I'm presenting it as a positive change, where as you're presenting it as a way to downgrade a class. In addition, whereas your suggestion was to downgrade a class, my suggestion was to vary a class. To give players a choice in how to make their class more effective and tailored to their taste. My post doesn't suggest only to have spell damage based upon certain stats, but also to have spell effectiveness based upon those stats as well. How about implementing it where the chance of an offensive "sticker spell" (i used DOT last time) lands on the target, or have stats effect how long they last. How about having it so that Mages, if they have a high enough wisdom gains bonus effects upon their spells that normally don't happen? Lightning bolt with a chance to "pierce" multiple enemies? Sandstorm having the chance to blind enemies is normal(?) but having a higher wis would add extra effects like maybe a chance to "enfeeble" the mob? or disarm their weapons? I think having this kind of variety would make the game very enjoyable, and more importantly more dynamic. How about clerics, if they have a higher int, perhaps they know how to utilize spells better, how about a fheal with a slight vit bonus of one second to it? thus it can bring a tank to above their max, but doesn't last enough to be exploited. But supposed you tied healing to a particular attribute, however you couldn't get that attribute and the one that determines the max healing of fheal... Which one would be more useful? Different uses for different groups.
Your recommendation is different from my idea in that I'm presenting it as a positive change, where as you're presenting it as a way to downgrade a class. In addition, whereas your suggestion was to downgrade a class, my suggestion was to vary a class. To give players a choice in how to make their class more effective and tailored to their taste. My post doesn't suggest only to have spell damage based upon certain stats, but also to have spell effectiveness based upon those stats as well. How about implementing it where the chance of an offensive "sticker spell" (i used DOT last time) lands on the target, or have stats effect how long they last. How about having it so that Mages, if they have a high enough wisdom gains bonus effects upon their spells that normally don't happen? Lightning bolt with a chance to "pierce" multiple enemies? Sandstorm having the chance to blind enemies is normal(?) but having a higher wis would add extra effects like maybe a chance to "enfeeble" the mob? or disarm their weapons? I think having this kind of variety would make the game very enjoyable, and more importantly more dynamic. How about clerics, if they have a higher int, perhaps they know how to utilize spells better, how about a fheal with a slight vit bonus of one second to it? thus it can bring a tank to above their max, but doesn't last enough to be exploited. But supposed you tied healing to a particular attribute, however you couldn't get that attribute and the one that determines the max healing of fheal... Which one would be more useful? Different uses for different groups.
I agree with Ragorn's comments above, and some of Mori's.
As a cleric, I rolled for stats that were appropriate for the current system in the game, as I'm sure all the other spellcasters out there did. If some other stat that I didn't think was so important suddenly influenced my ability to heal the tank and cast spells as well, I'd probably dump my char, and feel pretty discouraged that my 100 days of ptime and questing and stuff for eq end up not meaning much, since I need some other silly stat that there aren't really any options for due to my class.
I'd just suggest reducing PC damage output a little on selected area effect spells instead of trying to revamp the whole system this far into Soj3.
As a cleric, I rolled for stats that were appropriate for the current system in the game, as I'm sure all the other spellcasters out there did. If some other stat that I didn't think was so important suddenly influenced my ability to heal the tank and cast spells as well, I'd probably dump my char, and feel pretty discouraged that my 100 days of ptime and questing and stuff for eq end up not meaning much, since I need some other silly stat that there aren't really any options for due to my class.
I'd just suggest reducing PC damage output a little on selected area effect spells instead of trying to revamp the whole system this far into Soj3.
Couldn't agree with Rylan more.
Don't make me have to rework the set of EQ I have or reroll my attributes (and thus rework my set of EQ) in the name of balance. Can you imagine if suddenly all the hitters had to have high Int or wis to have good damage? Or tanks had to have high charisma to get good HP's?
I am in favor of allowing casters to focus on a praticular skill (I know specialization is supposed to be this) to increase the effects of particular spell types. As a Shaman I am automatically specialized in summon. Well, I would rather be specialized in healing spells or damage spells but didn't have that option.
From a short term can be done perspective, I think area effect spells could take a hit on damage to increase melee effectiveness.
Depok
Don't make me have to rework the set of EQ I have or reroll my attributes (and thus rework my set of EQ) in the name of balance. Can you imagine if suddenly all the hitters had to have high Int or wis to have good damage? Or tanks had to have high charisma to get good HP's?
I am in favor of allowing casters to focus on a praticular skill (I know specialization is supposed to be this) to increase the effects of particular spell types. As a Shaman I am automatically specialized in summon. Well, I would rather be specialized in healing spells or damage spells but didn't have that option.
From a short term can be done perspective, I think area effect spells could take a hit on damage to increase melee effectiveness.
Depok
And what's wrong with suddenly having to gather some save_rod or +hitroll equipment? You can do that in a week, heck you could obtain +20 in hit eq in a single day if you tried. You have save_breath and save_spell equipment in your bags, so just add this to your 'to get' list. And zone makers can make some new things instead of just another boring +20hp -2save_spell item.
Yes, you would probably lose 100 hp if you want to cast near top damage, but that's not much. If you had to wear some hit or save_rod to be able to reach your maximum spell damage potential, it would
A) make casters somewhat weaker hitpoint wise and
B) probably ensure that not all casters in the group are casting at 100% potential, instead being at 70-90% of their max.
Learn to live like warrior subclasses who have to collect hit/dam AND saves and hp eq. Contrary to most mage gear, warrior gear besides surtur doesn't have save_spell on it. We wear it and sacrifice something else, and I for one am constantly switching eq depending on the fight.
This would be an excellent avenue to make areas somewhat (note the somewhat) less powerful, or lower casters' hitpoints a little if they want to go 100% damage.
God feedback?
Yes, you would probably lose 100 hp if you want to cast near top damage, but that's not much. If you had to wear some hit or save_rod to be able to reach your maximum spell damage potential, it would
A) make casters somewhat weaker hitpoint wise and
B) probably ensure that not all casters in the group are casting at 100% potential, instead being at 70-90% of their max.
Learn to live like warrior subclasses who have to collect hit/dam AND saves and hp eq. Contrary to most mage gear, warrior gear besides surtur doesn't have save_spell on it. We wear it and sacrifice something else, and I for one am constantly switching eq depending on the fight.
This would be an excellent avenue to make areas somewhat (note the somewhat) less powerful, or lower casters' hitpoints a little if they want to go 100% damage.
God feedback?
Just a quick note Cherzra.. I know you're using save_rod as an example, but I think the reason we don't see much other types of save eq is because they are tied to a variety of other "special" saves that would make PCs really uber. For example sv_pet, but for sv_rod I'm not entirely sure what it does.
Hitroll eq would be interesting tho.. just not sure what all there is for mages, cuz I think everything is designed around the current system.
Hitroll eq would be interesting tho.. just not sure what all there is for mages, cuz I think everything is designed around the current system.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
<B>And what's wrong with suddenly having to gather some save_rod or +hitroll equipment? You can do that in a week, heck you could obtain +20 in hit eq in a single day if you tried. You have save_breath and save_spell equipment in your bags, so just add this to your 'to get' list. And zone makers can make some new things instead of just another boring +20hp -2save_spell item.
Yes, you would probably lose 100 hp if you want to cast near top damage, but that's not much. If you had to wear some hit or save_rod to be able to reach your maximum spell damage potential, it would
A) make casters somewhat weaker hitpoint wise and
B) probably ensure that not all casters in the group are casting at 100% potential, instead being at 70-90% of their max.
Learn to live like warrior subclasses who have to collect hit/dam AND saves and hp eq. Contrary to most mage gear, warrior gear besides surtur doesn't have save_spell on it. We wear it and sacrifice something else, and I for one am constantly switching eq depending on the fight.
This would be an excellent avenue to make areas somewhat (note the somewhat) less powerful, or lower casters' hitpoints a little if they want to go 100% damage.
God feedback?</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What is wrong with it is that many players have spent countless hours zoning, dieing, questing to gather the items that they need to make their character what it is today.
If i have to bag my Star silver Plate or someone has to bag their Silver bracelets and Mantle of knowledge to wear a +hit or + sv_rd item I am sure I or they will be pissed that they went through all of the trouble to get something that is their prize possession only to have it sitting in a bag worthless because they now need some other item.
Imagine if you quested your conquest armor only to find that if you wear it now it will cause you to not be able to rescue as well.
How pissed would the paladin's be if their Holy avengers became worthless because they needed to hold nebulas for the +max Int or they couldn't use mounted combat and lay hands?
<B>And what's wrong with suddenly having to gather some save_rod or +hitroll equipment? You can do that in a week, heck you could obtain +20 in hit eq in a single day if you tried. You have save_breath and save_spell equipment in your bags, so just add this to your 'to get' list. And zone makers can make some new things instead of just another boring +20hp -2save_spell item.
Yes, you would probably lose 100 hp if you want to cast near top damage, but that's not much. If you had to wear some hit or save_rod to be able to reach your maximum spell damage potential, it would
A) make casters somewhat weaker hitpoint wise and
B) probably ensure that not all casters in the group are casting at 100% potential, instead being at 70-90% of their max.
Learn to live like warrior subclasses who have to collect hit/dam AND saves and hp eq. Contrary to most mage gear, warrior gear besides surtur doesn't have save_spell on it. We wear it and sacrifice something else, and I for one am constantly switching eq depending on the fight.
This would be an excellent avenue to make areas somewhat (note the somewhat) less powerful, or lower casters' hitpoints a little if they want to go 100% damage.
God feedback?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What is wrong with it is that many players have spent countless hours zoning, dieing, questing to gather the items that they need to make their character what it is today.
If i have to bag my Star silver Plate or someone has to bag their Silver bracelets and Mantle of knowledge to wear a +hit or + sv_rd item I am sure I or they will be pissed that they went through all of the trouble to get something that is their prize possession only to have it sitting in a bag worthless because they now need some other item.
Imagine if you quested your conquest armor only to find that if you wear it now it will cause you to not be able to rescue as well.
How pissed would the paladin's be if their Holy avengers became worthless because they needed to hold nebulas for the +max Int or they couldn't use mounted combat and lay hands?
I have a conquest armor, and it's bagged most of the time because I either use MR or +agi/dex.
And like I said, you wouldn't HAVE to ditch your old gear if you don't want to. You will just have to live with doing only at best e.g. 70% of maximum damage, or accept the fact that you need to replace some slots if you want 100%.
Nothing wrong with that since everyone knows areas = much too powerful.
As for having to get new gear, what's the big deal? It gives you something to look forward to, something to keep you busy the coming half year.
And like I said, you wouldn't HAVE to ditch your old gear if you don't want to. You will just have to live with doing only at best e.g. 70% of maximum damage, or accept the fact that you need to replace some slots if you want 100%.
Nothing wrong with that since everyone knows areas = much too powerful.
As for having to get new gear, what's the big deal? It gives you something to look forward to, something to keep you busy the coming half year.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by old depok:
<B> What is wrong with it is that many players have spent countless hours zoning, dieing, questing to gather the items that they need to make their character what it is today.
If i have to bag my Star silver Plate or someone has to bag their Silver bracelets and Mantle of knowledge to wear a +hit or + sv_rd item I am sure I or they will be pissed that they went through all of the trouble to get something that is their prize possession only to have it sitting in a bag worthless because they now need some other item.
Imagine if you quested your conquest armor only to find that if you wear it now it will cause you to not be able to rescue as well.
How pissed would the paladin's be if their Holy avengers became worthless because they needed to hold nebulas for the +max Int or they couldn't use mounted combat and lay hands?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah! And what if some Paladin found out he needed Ambram to do the most damage, but died easier than casters because he had fewer hp! Oh, wait... that's basically how it is...
------------------
Every problem in the universe can be solved by finding the right long-haired prettyboy and beating the crap out of him.
<B> What is wrong with it is that many players have spent countless hours zoning, dieing, questing to gather the items that they need to make their character what it is today.
If i have to bag my Star silver Plate or someone has to bag their Silver bracelets and Mantle of knowledge to wear a +hit or + sv_rd item I am sure I or they will be pissed that they went through all of the trouble to get something that is their prize possession only to have it sitting in a bag worthless because they now need some other item.
Imagine if you quested your conquest armor only to find that if you wear it now it will cause you to not be able to rescue as well.
How pissed would the paladin's be if their Holy avengers became worthless because they needed to hold nebulas for the +max Int or they couldn't use mounted combat and lay hands?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah! And what if some Paladin found out he needed Ambram to do the most damage, but died easier than casters because he had fewer hp! Oh, wait... that's basically how it is...
------------------
Every problem in the universe can be solved by finding the right long-haired prettyboy and beating the crap out of him.
"If i have to bag my Star silver Plate or someone has to bag their Silver bracelets and Mantle of knowledge to wear a +hit or + sv_rd item I am sure I or they will be pissed that they went through all of the trouble to get something that is their prize possession only to have it sitting in a bag worthless because they now need some other item."
Hitters have had to do this for years. I keep a lot of stuff in my bags that sits unused except for special situations where I either want to ditch some hit/dam for more hp or prots and to make up for hitroll lost in other locations. I might not use my amey rings in 80% of situations, but I hardly consider them worthless. I would have even more items sitting in my bag for specific situations except that over the cource of a few months, I managed to snag 2 rare uber hitter items that have the rare nature of having both good save vs. spell and good hit/dam. Gearwise, my proudest achievement is that I only have to keep 3 distinct configurations of gear now (hit/dam, hp, prots) instead of 5 (those 3 plus save vs. spell and breath).
------------------
You fire a black-shafted elven arrow to the east at Gormal's pet goat with masterful shooting that does lethal damage!
You receive your share of experience.
Hitters have had to do this for years. I keep a lot of stuff in my bags that sits unused except for special situations where I either want to ditch some hit/dam for more hp or prots and to make up for hitroll lost in other locations. I might not use my amey rings in 80% of situations, but I hardly consider them worthless. I would have even more items sitting in my bag for specific situations except that over the cource of a few months, I managed to snag 2 rare uber hitter items that have the rare nature of having both good save vs. spell and good hit/dam. Gearwise, my proudest achievement is that I only have to keep 3 distinct configurations of gear now (hit/dam, hp, prots) instead of 5 (those 3 plus save vs. spell and breath).
------------------
You fire a black-shafted elven arrow to the east at Gormal's pet goat with masterful shooting that does lethal damage!
You receive your share of experience.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
And what's wrong with suddenly having to gather some save_rod or +hitroll equipment? You can do that in a week, heck you could obtain +20 in hit eq in a single day if you tried. God feedback?</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah. YOU could do it
Not all are as mighty as the mighty bog troll!
And, to use the Yaya standard, it IS a downgrade. It requires more, better, and/or more specific equipment to achieve roughly the same effect in a zone (or does anyone believe imms would like to vastly up caster damage?). As soon as zones are balanced, it will be back to the same old, only you'll need to have maxdex eq as well as maxint eq, etc.
I can see where Rags is coming from, it is an interesting system. But given the assurances that there would be no wipe, our chars would be forever, etc. it doesn't seem apropos.
PS - thanks for clearing me up spellwise. I had those elementalist spells switched :P
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You tell Ushug 'err... spankmistress??'
Ushug tells you 'you can't help it, I've always thought of mori as a chick'
And what's wrong with suddenly having to gather some save_rod or +hitroll equipment? You can do that in a week, heck you could obtain +20 in hit eq in a single day if you tried. God feedback?
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah. YOU could do it
Not all are as mighty as the mighty bog troll!And, to use the Yaya standard, it IS a downgrade. It requires more, better, and/or more specific equipment to achieve roughly the same effect in a zone (or does anyone believe imms would like to vastly up caster damage?). As soon as zones are balanced, it will be back to the same old, only you'll need to have maxdex eq as well as maxint eq, etc.
I can see where Rags is coming from, it is an interesting system. But given the assurances that there would be no wipe, our chars would be forever, etc. it doesn't seem apropos.
PS - thanks for clearing me up spellwise. I had those elementalist spells switched :P
------------------
You tell Ushug 'err... spankmistress??'
Ushug tells you 'you can't help it, I've always thought of mori as a chick'
Yes it is a downgrade, but that's the whole point of it since area spells are in need of a downgrade.
You have 2 options with this:
-have max spell damage potential but wear 100-150 fewer hp
-have 75% max damage potential with full hp gear.
Most zones are the same as last wipe. However, back then there were only invokers and liches for areas. Now there are illusionists, elementalists, shamans, improved druids, necromancers, heck almost every caster is a nuker these days.
It wouldn't hurt to throttle the damage output some, and this is the perfect way to do it since you WOULD still have the option to output 100% damage if you prefer. You just wear 300hp instead of 450, using some +hit or -save_rod eq.
You have 2 options with this:
-have max spell damage potential but wear 100-150 fewer hp
-have 75% max damage potential with full hp gear.
Most zones are the same as last wipe. However, back then there were only invokers and liches for areas. Now there are illusionists, elementalists, shamans, improved druids, necromancers, heck almost every caster is a nuker these days.
It wouldn't hurt to throttle the damage output some, and this is the perfect way to do it since you WOULD still have the option to output 100% damage if you prefer. You just wear 300hp instead of 450, using some +hit or -save_rod eq.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
<B>I have a conquest armor, and it's bagged most of the time because I either use MR or +agi/dex.
And like I said, you wouldn't HAVE to ditch your old gear if you don't want to. You will just have to live with doing only at best e.g. 70% of maximum damage, or accept the fact that you need to replace some slots if you want 100%.
Nothing wrong with that since everyone knows areas = much too powerful.
As for having to get new gear, what's the big deal? It gives you something to look forward to, something to keep you busy the coming half year.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
But the system that you are proposing effects all spells not just areas.
It effects Clerics and illusionists, Enchanters and Liches. IE. Classes without areas.
If the goal is to make areas less powerful then make areas less powerful.
We do not have to entirely rework all casting classes to make that happen.
<B>I have a conquest armor, and it's bagged most of the time because I either use MR or +agi/dex.
And like I said, you wouldn't HAVE to ditch your old gear if you don't want to. You will just have to live with doing only at best e.g. 70% of maximum damage, or accept the fact that you need to replace some slots if you want 100%.
Nothing wrong with that since everyone knows areas = much too powerful.
As for having to get new gear, what's the big deal? It gives you something to look forward to, something to keep you busy the coming half year.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
But the system that you are proposing effects all spells not just areas.
It effects Clerics and illusionists, Enchanters and Liches. IE. Classes without areas.
If the goal is to make areas less powerful then make areas less powerful.
We do not have to entirely rework all casting classes to make that happen.
Seems to me that there was provision for this kind of balancing made when the muds combat engine was revamped. Dial down the spells, dial up the skills and melee. There's nothing wrong with a mage being as powerful naked as clothed. Magic shouldn't depend on your sleeves.
-Lorgan
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The Lord of the Iron Wastes holds his hammer high in the air, shouting a torment... 'Weak fools!'
-Lorgan
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The Lord of the Iron Wastes holds his hammer high in the air, shouting a torment... 'Weak fools!'
I personally prefer my suggestion to be based upon player stats, because all players will have different base stats. If you base it upon sv's then that's sort of pointless because then everyone starts off the same. The key is to allow the players to have their stats tailored somewhat in order to provide what they envision their characters to be capable of.
If people are so stuck upon their characters as it is, then lessen the effects of having sub 100 stats in a particular category.
So, lets say from anything sub 60 the player would only cast at 80% efficiency, anything from 60-79 is 90% efficiency, anything from 80-89 is 95% efficiency and from 90-99 is 100% efficiency. Anything above that is a 1% increase per point as it would require the caster to have equipment that has +maxstats. Think of this as a bonus for characters who decide to stat hunt for their characters or who are willing to sacrifice hp for more power. I think the current amount of hp that a caster can wear is rediculous. There was a time when zoning in jot with 300 hp was fun, zoning there with 400 hp was safe. I think a mage should always be in danger of dying the minute they decide to go adventuring with a group of people. That's the reason they require good tanks to help distract and keep the enemy away from them.
On that note, and with that kind of vision. How about some kind of skill that distracts the enemy, like taunt or something. The way the skill works is that it causes the mob to focus on a particular pc with one extra round of delay that the pc doesn't get. So if the pc lags for one round after doing a taunt, the NPC would lag for two if it was successful.
An additional skill needs to be implemented to complement this and for lack of a better name, i'll just call it "maneuvering." The point of this skill is a "preventative rescue." This skill would be a reflexsive skill that all warrior and subclasses can learn. What it does is it allows the character to intercept a switch. But here is the key, it can only be done by someone who isn't tanking. There should be better caps for certain classes that should generally be more maneuverable, rangers? dires? Afterwards the main tank(s) can rescue those people.
If people are so stuck upon their characters as it is, then lessen the effects of having sub 100 stats in a particular category.
So, lets say from anything sub 60 the player would only cast at 80% efficiency, anything from 60-79 is 90% efficiency, anything from 80-89 is 95% efficiency and from 90-99 is 100% efficiency. Anything above that is a 1% increase per point as it would require the caster to have equipment that has +maxstats. Think of this as a bonus for characters who decide to stat hunt for their characters or who are willing to sacrifice hp for more power. I think the current amount of hp that a caster can wear is rediculous. There was a time when zoning in jot with 300 hp was fun, zoning there with 400 hp was safe. I think a mage should always be in danger of dying the minute they decide to go adventuring with a group of people. That's the reason they require good tanks to help distract and keep the enemy away from them.
On that note, and with that kind of vision. How about some kind of skill that distracts the enemy, like taunt or something. The way the skill works is that it causes the mob to focus on a particular pc with one extra round of delay that the pc doesn't get. So if the pc lags for one round after doing a taunt, the NPC would lag for two if it was successful.
An additional skill needs to be implemented to complement this and for lack of a better name, i'll just call it "maneuvering." The point of this skill is a "preventative rescue." This skill would be a reflexsive skill that all warrior and subclasses can learn. What it does is it allows the character to intercept a switch. But here is the key, it can only be done by someone who isn't tanking. There should be better caps for certain classes that should generally be more maneuverable, rangers? dires? Afterwards the main tank(s) can rescue those people.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Todrael:
<B> Neither should how sharp your sword is.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The point to be made is that hand fighting has more to do with what you wear and what you use for equipment than launching missiles. If magic is studied academicaly, as it is on sojourn, why would what you're wearing effect how you do your magic? (game mechanics like +int aside)
I may be in the minority, but I don't see an issue with a mage being as powerful, magically, naked as they are dressed. It's warriors and fighters who are dependant on their swords and armor, sharp or dull.
That's my 2 copper, if you had 1 g more you could by a ration.
-Lorgan
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The Lord of the Iron Wastes holds his hammer high in the air, shouting a torment... 'Weak fools!'
<B> Neither should how sharp your sword is.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The point to be made is that hand fighting has more to do with what you wear and what you use for equipment than launching missiles. If magic is studied academicaly, as it is on sojourn, why would what you're wearing effect how you do your magic? (game mechanics like +int aside)
I may be in the minority, but I don't see an issue with a mage being as powerful, magically, naked as they are dressed. It's warriors and fighters who are dependant on their swords and armor, sharp or dull.
That's my 2 copper, if you had 1 g more you could by a ration.
-Lorgan
------------------
The Lord of the Iron Wastes holds his hammer high in the air, shouting a torment... 'Weak fools!'
"The point to be made is that hand fighting has more to do with what you wear and what you use for equipment than launching missiles. If magic is studied academicaly, as it is on sojourn, why would what you're wearing effect how you do your magic? (game mechanics like +int aside)
I may be in the minority, but I don't see an issue with a mage being as powerful, magically, naked as they are dressed. It's warriors and fighters who are dependant on their swords and armor, sharp or dull."
Yes, what you wear will affect how well you absorb blows, but why would it affect how you land them? People who practice historical combat like HACA tend to prefer to go without armor as their skill improves since it interferes with mobility and dexterity and hence how well you fight. There's no logical reason why my belt should make my sword slashes shear more of the target and definately no reason for it making my arrows strike with more force.
Second, magic IS dependent on material items. We don't require diamond dust worth at least 100 g every casting of stone skin for convenience, but mage mobs with quests frequently refer to needing spell components and focuses. Magic does NOT come from the caster, the caster is only the middleman for directing energies from other planes by manipulating latent properties of otherwise mundane items. Making casters have to get spell component pouches or focuses of appropriate materials to make certain spells more effective is not unreasonable. It simulates an aspect of magic currently ignored by the mud despite being mentioned by mobs and other sources of flavor for the game world without bogging things down logistically like requiring an invoker acquire a pinch of bat guano for every fire spell cast would.
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You fire a black-shafted elven arrow to the east at Gormal's pet goat with masterful shooting that does lethal damage!
You receive your share of experience.
[This message has been edited by Treladian (edited 11-04-2002).]
I may be in the minority, but I don't see an issue with a mage being as powerful, magically, naked as they are dressed. It's warriors and fighters who are dependant on their swords and armor, sharp or dull."
Yes, what you wear will affect how well you absorb blows, but why would it affect how you land them? People who practice historical combat like HACA tend to prefer to go without armor as their skill improves since it interferes with mobility and dexterity and hence how well you fight. There's no logical reason why my belt should make my sword slashes shear more of the target and definately no reason for it making my arrows strike with more force.
Second, magic IS dependent on material items. We don't require diamond dust worth at least 100 g every casting of stone skin for convenience, but mage mobs with quests frequently refer to needing spell components and focuses. Magic does NOT come from the caster, the caster is only the middleman for directing energies from other planes by manipulating latent properties of otherwise mundane items. Making casters have to get spell component pouches or focuses of appropriate materials to make certain spells more effective is not unreasonable. It simulates an aspect of magic currently ignored by the mud despite being mentioned by mobs and other sources of flavor for the game world without bogging things down logistically like requiring an invoker acquire a pinch of bat guano for every fire spell cast would.
------------------
You fire a black-shafted elven arrow to the east at Gormal's pet goat with masterful shooting that does lethal damage!
You receive your share of experience.
[This message has been edited by Treladian (edited 11-04-2002).]
Been a few days since a post on this, but although this idea was to address the overpowering of casters I think a better point of view would be to diversify the choices of casters. Instead of saying with full hp gear you may only do 70/75/whatever% also look at the opposite where at full damage gear you would do 110/120/125/whatever% of current max damage.
It is true that the sudden change would adversely affect currently rolled characters, but that's life. It's happened before with new stats going in (1993??) and people lived. Hell, I played Marforp through all the years where any sorc worth his spit would be a spec protection sorc and I was spec enchant. Before when sorc were suppose to deal out damage I played Knath the spec prot sorc. In regards to the huge disappointment that maybe your character doesn't have the perfect stats isn't that what all old timers have dealth with at one time or another. "Look I'm the bomb I rolled a <fill in a class> character to play with this bomb item I got. Crap, they just removed/modified my bomb item!"
Is this a good idea if it was implemented with some modifications? Yes. Is their equipment to fully implement it now? No. Does this matter? No, the equipment will come. Will this take a lot of coder work to implement? No idea, but probably.
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Marforp / Sasdor
and now the new improved Pofas
[This message has been edited by Marforp (edited 11-15-2002).]
It is true that the sudden change would adversely affect currently rolled characters, but that's life. It's happened before with new stats going in (1993??) and people lived. Hell, I played Marforp through all the years where any sorc worth his spit would be a spec protection sorc and I was spec enchant. Before when sorc were suppose to deal out damage I played Knath the spec prot sorc. In regards to the huge disappointment that maybe your character doesn't have the perfect stats isn't that what all old timers have dealth with at one time or another. "Look I'm the bomb I rolled a <fill in a class> character to play with this bomb item I got. Crap, they just removed/modified my bomb item!"
Is this a good idea if it was implemented with some modifications? Yes. Is their equipment to fully implement it now? No. Does this matter? No, the equipment will come. Will this take a lot of coder work to implement? No idea, but probably.
------------------
Marforp / Sasdor
and now the new improved Pofas
[This message has been edited by Marforp (edited 11-15-2002).]
Just wondering... Are you suggesting to change it so every spell is less effective and/or takes longer time to mem and/or make less spells available for all the caster classes, based on your stats you have rolled (or something new and inventive you haven't thought of yet)? If so, may I ask why? Is it because you feel you can't solo a mob that a caster might be able to? Or is that you feel the zones get too easy and too boring? Too few people dying? Or some other reasons?
(Personal (rant) notes: The mem time for a mage type is already dependent on (at least (and ignoring level)) your int or wis for a cleric type.
Many of the defensive spells a caster get are the only means of defense they get, as my only defensive skill is dodge at the impressive value of 15 (think someone said it capped at 20 or 25 or something). As I have understood it, the offense and the hp a caster (are trying to) get is a mean for making up for this. (Fun to see the screen filled with OUCH, OUCH, OUCH if you get switched to And I think you all know how much use a bashed caster is.)
If you make it take longer to cast and memorize spells, or makes fewer spells available for mem at one time, I don't think hitters should expect to get so many spells casted on them at spellups or during combat that full heal might be one * away a lot more often And memming much more often or like five or more minutes because you casted globe, scales and blur or vitality on 3 or 4 hitters would be really fun
If you don't like casters to be able to kill mobs without having to mem out (which already happens a lot), how do you think we should get exp? By running around on e.g. the pirate ship and perhaps get one notch after having standed by and looked at all the ship mobs get killed for a few rounds?
And why change the casters? Why not try to make the hitter classes better instead?
Oh, well, what do I know... Just another relatively new player getting confused on all the older ones... *shrug*)
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"When you do things right, people won't be sure you have done anything at all"
--Futurama
(Personal (rant) notes: The mem time for a mage type is already dependent on (at least (and ignoring level)) your int or wis for a cleric type.
Many of the defensive spells a caster get are the only means of defense they get, as my only defensive skill is dodge at the impressive value of 15 (think someone said it capped at 20 or 25 or something). As I have understood it, the offense and the hp a caster (are trying to) get is a mean for making up for this. (Fun to see the screen filled with OUCH, OUCH, OUCH if you get switched to
And I think you all know how much use a bashed caster is.)If you make it take longer to cast and memorize spells, or makes fewer spells available for mem at one time, I don't think hitters should expect to get so many spells casted on them at spellups or during combat that full heal might be one * away a lot more often
And memming much more often or like five or more minutes because you casted globe, scales and blur or vitality on 3 or 4 hitters would be really fun If you don't like casters to be able to kill mobs without having to mem out (which already happens a lot), how do you think we should get exp? By running around on e.g. the pirate ship and perhaps get one notch after having standed by and looked at all the ship mobs get killed for a few rounds?
And why change the casters? Why not try to make the hitter classes better instead?
Oh, well, what do I know... Just another relatively new player getting confused on all the older ones... *shrug*)
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"When you do things right, people won't be sure you have done anything at all"
--Futurama
Maybe I am missing something here. My understanding was that this post was about a system for reducing spell casters damage (specifically area damage) as a ways to make hitters more valuable.
We have a way to do that without increasing mem times (hello i am a shaman I have crappy mem times as it is), decreasing numbers of spells (as it is there are times I am sitting around watching while we are clearing mobs cause I am all out of spells), or increasing casting times (back to that barb shaman thing again).
It's not hard to figure this out.
REDUCE THE DAMAGE ON AREA EFFECT SPELLS.
We have a way to do that without increasing mem times (hello i am a shaman I have crappy mem times as it is), decreasing numbers of spells (as it is there are times I am sitting around watching while we are clearing mobs cause I am all out of spells), or increasing casting times (back to that barb shaman thing again).
It's not hard to figure this out.
REDUCE THE DAMAGE ON AREA EFFECT SPELLS.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Lenefir:
<B>how do you think we should get exp? By running around on e.g. the pirate ship and perhaps get one notch after having standed by and looked at all the ship mobs get killed for a few rounds?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Am i the only one who saves constricion to try and get the death kill? well i gotta do something, exp is so boreing.
[This message has been edited by Risaros (edited 11-18-2002).]
<B>how do you think we should get exp? By running around on e.g. the pirate ship and perhaps get one notch after having standed by and looked at all the ship mobs get killed for a few rounds?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Am i the only one who saves constricion to try and get the death kill? well i gotta do something, exp is so boreing.
[This message has been edited by Risaros (edited 11-18-2002).]
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