A realistic warrior skill

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Burpie
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A realistic warrior skill

Postby Burpie » Fri Dec 20, 2002 9:21 am

I've posted about this before. The notion kinda drives me nuts. Scenario: A first level warrior that's at 1 hp vs. a 50th level warrior that's at 1 hp. - It's going to take like 60 seconds or so for the 1st level warrior to fully be healed. The 50th warrior is just screwed. You can fall asleep and you will lose link and only gain about 200 of 600 or whatever hps.

My suggestion is this: Make a skill that I believe berserkers got a long time ago. The skill is similar to troll regen except the warrior cannot be fighting or whatever. Perhaps if 'Meditate' is implimented for the warrior class, this could be it. as they meditate, insteal of how squids gain psp's, the warrior would regain hps.

This is one of the reasons it's annoying to have warriors lead zones. They do not want to wait, there's nothing for them to do. Casters have to meditate for their spells, etc. This will give the warrior something to do. Perhaps even other skills as well. Say 'battletrance' as a skill that gives bonuses relative to level and is used _prior_ to a battle. this skill would enable a warrior to have some kind of fighting attribute enhanced..say parrying, dodging, damage...whatever specific skill you were concentrating upon prior to engaging

Or 'battle frenzy' that again is used before a fight, (in my mind the warrior would gain a modest hp gain that is purely temporary, and if not healed after duration and is in that bonus margin, will die) the only true setback is the warrior could possibly make a check per round, or risk switching randomly to another mob. If the fight ends before frenzy, the warrior could possibly strike other members.

Imho, being a warrior is really non-involved and _boring_. just a bunch of auto-rescue triggers and no casting. I'd love to see more seasoning on the warrior's plate. A-P's and Pal's are quite involved vs. a warrior.
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Postby Corth » Fri Dec 20, 2002 9:57 am

Its a reasonable idea.. though I dont see how it would make warriors more useful in groups... presumably they're bringing a cleric or two with them when they goto zones.

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Postby Ambar » Fri Dec 20, 2002 10:26 am

tank1 group-says 'i will NOT bash@target! i'm not done meditating yet!'


want troll regen??

roll a troll

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Postby Burpie » Fri Dec 20, 2002 12:05 pm

No offense, Ambar, but unless you have something useful to add... "roll a troll" If you're gonna say stuff like that, explain yourself. Explain WHY a 50th warrior who's near death vs. a 1st level warrior (same as if considering AD&D) takes 100's of x's longer to regain hps. Not everybody groups, etc.
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Postby Ambar » Fri Dec 20, 2002 12:37 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Burpie:
No offense, Ambar, but unless you have something useful to add... "roll a troll" If you're gonna say stuff like that, explain yourself. Explain WHY a 50th warrior who's near death vs. a 1st level warrior (same as if considering AD&D) takes 100's of x's longer to regain hps. Not everybody groups, etc.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

and until you roll a troll (yeah mines a baby .. only lvl 39) you dont know the glory of troll regen .... hrrm Narra at lvl 39 has 560ish nekkid hps, seems logical that the baby warrior at 39-41 hps takes less time to regen

just seems like common sense to me (?) ... keep in mind i am a noob still ...

if i am reading more into this than is intened, i appologize ... but i know when i am xp'ing my troll i *heal* her on lower lvl mobs (anyone who has rolled an evil in the past few months has been run thru DK with my warrior knows this) ... THAT is how fast trolls regen


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Postby Zen » Fri Dec 20, 2002 12:51 pm

I for one think it's a good idea. The effect on the high level game would be very minimal because you bring healers. However, the effect on low to midlevel players, IE newbies would be tremendous. My theory is that the game should be tough as nails on a zone level, but the easier it is for newbies to get started the better off the mud population is.

Somehow, I don't think it's productive or valid to say 'go roll a troll' This would take nothing away from trolls, and it certainly would help the other races out. If anything, a skill like this would make trolls regenerate even faster.

-Lorgan

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Postby Daz » Fri Dec 20, 2002 12:57 pm

shoot me for agreeing with lorgan.
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Postby Zen » Fri Dec 20, 2002 2:56 pm

*BANG* Consider yourself shot. Image

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Postby thanuk » Fri Dec 20, 2002 3:19 pm

I like the idea of letting lowbie/middie warriors be able to regain their hps faster. As for the other stuff...
Ability to raise a defensive skill by meditating is kinda pointless, as warrior defensive skills suck atm.
Any kind of offensive skill, battlerage or whatever, is useless for a warrior. They are there to rescue, not to do damage. Unless they get a major melee overhaul, then this skill will serve little purpose, as it will just prevent them from rescuing and that would render them useless.

If you think warriors are boring and uninvolved, then you aren't doing it right Image. Using rescue triggers is botting, regardless of whether the gods here choose to enforce it. Try playing without them and see how bored you are. But i think your idea about allowing lowlevel/midlevel warriors to regen hps faster has alot of merit, good idea.


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Postby Gyrx » Fri Dec 20, 2002 7:06 pm

I don't know what I think about this idea.

I've always been tryin to make it easier on newbies/lowbies but I don't think it should be done this way.

A leader, in a zone, will never slow down to meditate. They'll merely hollar at the healers.

If this skill was implemented then it probably would make trolls regen too fast so then it would get lowered just for trolls. So, if a skill of this type were implemented then troll warriors should gain a special skill that no other warriors have. If they didn't then there would be a lot less of a reason to actually play a troll.

Now, I know a lot of people are going to be screaming about their agility and that there are "two" kind of prot fires. But seriously, just shut up because you really have no idea. I don't even care if you leveled up a troll in previous wipes because you obviously had a tainted view when you thought that the 2 prot fires made up for their fire vulnerbility.

Maybe make several types of this skill, and give them to warriors based on race.
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Postby belleshel » Fri Dec 20, 2002 7:38 pm

Wait your bored so you want to meditate?
I don't get it...
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Postby Ensis » Fri Dec 20, 2002 8:00 pm

Not to spawn another goodie vs evil debate, but all the goodies are the ones that think this is a great idea. Ambar is right when she says roll a troll.

Making a skill that mimics their regeneration would A: make troll warriors regen like FREAKS, and B: take away one of the HUGE benefits of being a troll over all other races, the ability to rest faster and get a little soloability.



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Postby Braggo Boulderbasher » Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:09 pm

and it would take away the fun of ogre regen! Image nah, I'd much rather have defensive skills actually work or something like that.

Braggo Boulderbasher (huge advocate of ogre's wielding 2handers in 1 hand!)
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Postby Treladian » Sat Dec 21, 2002 12:16 am

Sounds similar to some of the old monk chant skills, so another way to do it would be to make it have multiple possible effects and have the user select what they want to use. Ie, an ogre warrior that regens like a dead cow normally can choose to increase their healing rate, a troll could choose a temporary stat boost or whatever other benefits could be implemented.

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Postby Burpie » Sat Dec 21, 2002 10:04 am

I'm not saying that those ideas were 'the' ideas I'd like to see implimented. But hopefully something along those lines. Could 'cap' the skill of regen vs. the races' intelligence. That would put a quick stop to overpowering trolls. As for warrior being boring unless playing manually, I'd like to see a group willing to do say, Jot or Scorps with a warrior player that can read thru the spam. If say, 3 scorps switch in one round and you've no clue (assuming the other warriors are doing manually as well), the person switched upon probably will die as a result. Bspam is so hard to read thru even condensed in massive fights like that. I'm definitely not the wisest when it comes to muds/AD&D, but I truly feel being a warrior is ....in Homer Simpson's words 'Boooring'

It seems kinda odd how the 2 dorks that hang around Lord Pigeoncrap in WD fight so 'gracefully' and pull off those stupid moves that totally kick your butt. Albeit, they're just 51st level warriors. Perhaps if you had a chance to do something like that to a mob, or whatever *sigh* Warriors are just boring, period.
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Postby Ambar » Sat Dec 21, 2002 3:57 pm

hope the next warrior you are grouped with isnt too bored to add you to their rescues Image

You group say(naked in your guildhall) 'why the hell wasn't i rescued?

Warriorx group says 'cause i was too bored to add you to my rescues .. sorry'

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Postby Disoputlip » Sat Dec 21, 2002 4:01 pm

I love troll warriors for the same benefit, and would like to see all races get something that makes trolls so popular.

Trolls are x100 more playable when it comes to walking around alone, and just having fun with the char.

But, if it goes in then it will be a serious upgrade, Especially for trolls if it simply gets appended to their regen.

/Puh Chew Goo
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Postby moritheil » Sun Dec 22, 2002 12:02 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Burpie:
No offense, Ambar, but unless you have something useful to add... "roll a troll" If you're gonna say stuff like that, explain yourself. Explain WHY a 50th warrior who's near death vs. a 1st level warrior (same as if considering AD&D) takes 100's of x's longer to regain hps. Not everybody groups, etc.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK... I have a few things to point out.

The MAJOR reason to be a troll is to get regen. This regen helps them not so much during battle as when they are out of battle afk resting for hps back. If you give warriors an ability to do this, you have just screwed over troll players. Further, if you let the ability stack, you've just made trolls insanely uber, because between fights they'll only have to rest for a minute. And doing warrior mobs in runs will be ridiculous, because it will presumably stack with mob regen.

Insofar as not everyone grouping, well, the mud is meant to encourage grouping. If you don't want to, that's fine too, but your productivity will suffer. That's intentional, and having to rest long times in between fights is one of the ways your productivity suffers. It's a not-so-subtle hint that you should be grouping.

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Postby moritheil » Sun Dec 22, 2002 12:07 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Burpie:
It seems kinda odd how the 2 dorks that hang around Lord Pigeoncrap in WD fight so 'gracefully' and pull off those stupid moves that totally kick your butt. Albeit, they're just 51st level warriors. Perhaps if you had a chance to do something like that to a mob, or whatever *sigh* Warriors are just boring, period.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does someone want to explain mob procs?

Burpie, PC's fight with intelligence. Mobs do not, and that is something that designers partly make up for with special actions.

In general, warriors are not meant to be as flashy as mages. They make up for this by being a staple requirement for most zones, and by having easier xp tables. I understand that you're frustrated, but if you read the posts on the board, that's a normal process of playing a warrior. Either you decide to stick it through, or you give up and play caster.

I have great respect for players like Touk who still play warrior.

PS - insofar as your original post, the 50 warrior HAS taken more hits. You can't deny that. He just has an indomitable will and doesn't lie down and die as fast as the level 1 warrior.

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Postby Burpie » Sun Dec 22, 2002 3:51 am

*agree* completely. Touk is a hell of a nice guy too!
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Postby thanuk » Mon Dec 23, 2002 6:16 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Burpie:
<B> As for warrior being boring unless playing manually, I'd like to see a group willing to do say, Jot or Scorps with a warrior player that can read thru the spam. If say, 3 scorps switch in one round and you've no clue (assuming the other warriors are doing manually as well), the person switched upon probably will die as a result. Bspam is so hard to read thru even condensed in massive fights like that. I'm definitely not the wisest when it comes to muds/AD&D, but I truly feel being a warrior is ....in Homer Simpson's words 'Boooring'

Warriors are just boring, period.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok well i read through the battlespam as you put it, and i have tanked both zones you are talking about, as MT. I also MT for Bronze Citadel, clouds, muspel invasion, and basically any other sick multi-switch deathfights that you can name that goodies can do on this mud. I have done this without any form of rescue trigger, and i don't really hear much complaining. In fact, i think you would be hard-pressed to find a group that wouldn't want me as their main tank. Now that im done tooting my own horn(TM Ythera), lemme explain something to you. Mud clients have this lovely little command called #gag. It works wonders on battlespam. If you think playing a warrior is boring, then maybe you should pick another class. If you cant hang without your rescue triggers, then you should definately pick another class. Warrior may be boring to you, but that might be because you dont really know how to play a warrior. I haven't seem to have had much trouble, i dont use triggers, and people dont die when im around. If you want more solo ability for lower level warriors i can respect that, its a good idea. But im not gonna sit here and listen to you bad mouth the best class in the game just because your bored watching your character rescue for you. Of course your bored, you are watching a robot, you have made yourself a spectator. If you dont want to be a robot, then play like a real tank and lose the rescue triggers. If your gonna set up an auto-rescue warriorbot and then complain its boring, then nobody cares. Stop botting and it wont be so boring.

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Postby Vahok » Mon Dec 23, 2002 10:26 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by thanuk:
<B> Ok well i read through the battlespam as you put it, and i have tanked both zones you are talking about, as MT. I also MT for Bronze Citadel, clouds, muspel invasion, and basically any other sick multi-switch deathfights that you can name that goodies can do on this mud. I have done this without any form of rescue trigger, and i don't really hear much complaining. In fact, i think you would be hard-pressed to find a group that wouldn't want me as their main tank. Now that im done tooting my own horn(TM Ythera), lemme explain something to you. Mud clients have this lovely little command called #gag. It works wonders on battlespam. If you think playing a warrior is boring, then maybe you should pick another class. If you cant hang without your rescue triggers, then you should definately pick another class. Warrior may be boring to you, but that might be because you dont really know how to play a warrior. I haven't seem to have had much trouble, i dont use triggers, and people dont die when im around. If you want more solo ability for lower level warriors i can respect that, its a good idea. But im not gonna sit here and listen to you bad mouth the best class in the game just because your bored watching your character rescue for you. Of course your bored, you are watching a robot, you have made yourself a spectator. If you dont want to be a robot, then play like a real tank and lose the rescue triggers. If your gonna set up an auto-rescue warriorbot and then complain its boring, then nobody cares. Stop botting and it wont be so boring.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I wouldn't want you as the MT Thanuk...you'd be stealing my job! Plus a back view of you....scary. Excuse me while I try and rid myself of that thought ...

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Postby Gura » Sun Dec 29, 2002 6:52 am

cool so if they implement this all warriors will take double or triple fire damage right?

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Postby Xisiqomelir » Sun Dec 29, 2002 7:22 am

Zing!

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Postby Strond » Mon Dec 30, 2002 5:09 pm

Aye, a swig of ale does the trick.

While a bit tipsy as life should be regen is upped a bit but of course with much argument my swing of the axe may not be as accurate *cough*

Thats the way it should be I say.

Strond

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