No offense, but. . .

Archive of the Sojourn3 Ideas Forum.
Waelos
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No offense, but. . .

Postby Waelos » Thu Jan 30, 2003 11:33 pm

I'm read numerous 'new class ideas' and frankly. . . uh, guys? good as they may be the last thing Sojourn needs is another class. If anything we need _less_ classes.

We already are having issues in finding uses/niches for a number of the existing classes. We're having balance issues with the existing classes. We have how many playable classes now? 14? Any more and we won't be able to fit them all in one group. That is not including some evil only classes. . .with them I believe we're at 16 playable PC classes.

So, mind if I ask all of you're considerable collective creativities be bent into ideas to improve/balance our existing classes I think we'd all be better off =)

Speaking of which, could we please have some sort of update from the Imm's as to what they are considering to balance the game? I know requests of this nature go unanswered alot of the time just because the question was asked. . .but could you make an exception this time? I think we've identified a number of the problems. Equipment balance, spell damage, melee general ineffectiveness. . . just three that come to mind. I think there have been a number of great ideas generated on the boards to fix those three problems. Would be awesome to know if this feedback was processed and refined by the minds that run this world, and get a peek as to what is in store for us =)

Thanks!

The Lost

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Savras
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Postby Savras » Thu Jan 30, 2003 11:56 pm

The area gods are currently collectively working on the eq balance problem. The solution is progressing very nicely but I can't really say anything else about it just yet. I dunno if I'm even supposed to say this much :P But I figured those that have put thought into it deserve to have some info.
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Postby Waelos » Thu Jan 30, 2003 11:58 pm

Thank you Sav! Image

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Postby moritheil » Fri Jan 31, 2003 2:58 am

My kensai thread is over 1 yr old. I only bumped it in response to a point made in Elisten's thread.

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Postby moritheil » Fri Jan 31, 2003 2:59 am

Eilorn's. Image

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Postby Yayaril » Fri Jan 31, 2003 4:38 am

I'm not having trouble finding the uses for each class right now. Who says a class has to have a niche?

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Postby Daz » Fri Jan 31, 2003 8:52 am

groan

equipment balance meands more downgrades mutter

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Postby moritheil » Fri Jan 31, 2003 1:42 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Daz:
<B>groan

equipment balance meands more downgrades mutter

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

agree, no good can come of this! Image

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Postby thanuk » Fri Jan 31, 2003 2:44 pm

EQ downgrades will be good, gives you something to work for Image

coughAIRSHIPEQISOVERPOWEREDcough


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Postby Malacar » Fri Jan 31, 2003 2:48 pm

Having been in on some brainstorming for eq 'downgrades', all I can say is that the gods involved seem to be taking balance and player perspective in equal amounts. Some great points were raised by the players, and the gods listened and took our opinions into consideration.

Kudos to the gods for that.

My only comment, which was also made in that brainstorm session, is that I hope all the eq changes take into account how far into the "powerplay" mode the mud has gone. IE - mobs with insane powers, hitpoints, skills, etc. It looks like the gods involved are taking that into account, and not trying to balance based on old code or mobs, but against new code and mobs.

Don't drub it til it goes in, then if you don't like it, I'd suggest you post what, in specific, you don't like, then try to go that route.


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Postby moritheil » Fri Jan 31, 2003 4:08 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by thanuk:
<B>EQ downgrades will be good, gives you something to work for Image

coughAIRSHIPEQISOVERPOWEREDcough


</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Laugh, not everyone thinks they need more to work for.

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Postby thanuk » Fri Jan 31, 2003 4:56 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by moritheil:
<B> Laugh, not everyone thinks they need more to work for.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok regardless of what people think, do you think its balanced to be able to get a weapon who's proc stops spellcasting with 5 people in a few hours? The only other weapons with procs like that are skullsmasher and rockcrusher, and these are both not only rare but considerably harder fights than the ones im talking about. Just one example of equipment that needs to be downgraded in order to acheive balance. Do you disagree?
If so, explain to me why the these unnamed weapons should be as powerful as they are given the relatively small effort required to get them when compared to other weapons with similar proc effects? Or choose another example if you like, its friday and i got time Image

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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Jan 31, 2003 5:39 pm

Thanuk, from what I understand the staff went over the magebanes pretty thoroughly before letting them in the game. My tanto procs at a reasonable rate, but the rate at which it will successfully abort a caster is pretty darned low. Add to that the lower hit/dam and dice and what you think is great isn't the wonderweapon you're making it out to be. Having the tanto does, however, open up the very limited choices of decent piercers available compared to warrior type weapons, so I might be a tad biased here on its behalf.

And you'd only get it in a few hours if you were really lucky, but you'd still have to take a group to do it. I can name quite a few proc weapons with nice procs that people can get in a few hours with a group. One of the best warrior proc weapons in the game is easier to get.
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Postby thanuk » Fri Jan 31, 2003 5:42 pm

Are you implying that CC is easier than airship? If you are, your crazy Image


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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Jan 31, 2003 5:57 pm

No, it's another weapon. Sorry, should have clarified that ANOTHER warrior weapon with one of the better procs in the game is easier to get.
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Postby thanuk » Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:45 pm

Please enlighten me as to which weapon this could possibly be, because im wracking my mind for a warrior weapon with a good proc and they are all relatively hard to get except for the age-may ane-bay.


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Postby Yayaril » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:17 pm

Thanuk thinks he can get a magebane weapon with 5 people... interesting =9

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Postby Dizzin » Fri Jan 31, 2003 8:02 pm

Thanuk, Respectfully, until you actually *do* the magebane quest from start to finish, you have no clue what you're talking about and I'd suggest that you shut your hole.
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Postby thanuk » Fri Jan 31, 2003 9:09 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dizzin:
Thanuk, Respectfully, until you actually *do* the magebane quest from start to finish, you have no clue what you're talking about and I'd suggest that you shut your hole.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have actually done all the fights required for the quest, though not in any semblance of order, and not knowing that i was actually doing the quest. Either way its just one example of overpowered equipment. Its just not that difficult. Ok so if u wanna be a ball buster like i know you all do, it takes more than 5 people for some of the steps. That doesn't make it hard, or enough to warrant the reward, just like the rest of the airship quests. Its an easy zone with easy fights that gives really good eq, and its just not balanced.
If you disagree, fine. But tell me why, dont just tell me to shut up cuz you dont like what im saying. Or you could do what yaya does and make stupid comments without substance that detract from the content of the discussion, those are always a big help!
I really wanna know what weapon you think is as good as magebane or better and is easier to get, even though i think i know what your gonna say. I also wanna know what part of the airship makes it difficult enough to warrant the rewards.
I think the airship is great example of everything that is wrong with the mud, but my opinion aside, the rewards are still overpowered. If you disagree, go ahead and give a reason.

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Postby oteb » Fri Jan 31, 2003 9:40 pm

thanuk one of your favourite 2hand slasher is easier to get than unnamed airship weapon. and it can be done with smaller group too.

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[This message has been edited by oteb (edited 01-31-2003).]
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Postby oteb » Fri Jan 31, 2003 9:44 pm

oh and if you do magebane in a few hours i will give you mine as additional reward.

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Postby thanuk » Fri Jan 31, 2003 9:49 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by oteb:
<B>thanuk one of your favourite 2hand slasher is easier to get than unnamed airship weapon. and it can be done with smaller group too.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ROFLMAO! You have de-railed.


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Postby oteb » Fri Jan 31, 2003 9:54 pm

ok tell me what part of your favourite 2h slasher quest is harder than final fight for magebane and i will stop laughing at you.

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Postby Dizzin » Fri Jan 31, 2003 10:05 pm

Shrug. You just proved my point for me. Here's something you might actually understand though:

Hey guess what Thanuk, I've been involved in the final fight for Kern, and for that fight, good lord! All the stuff we got was soooooo overpowered!! Oh wait.. you mean there was other stuff to do before that?!

It's the exact same deal. So like I said earlier, until you actually *do* the entire quest, yourself, from start to finish, you have NO right to declare that airship stuff is overpowered.

Getting sick and tired of people who are only involved on the periphery of events, who only see the final fight, or one of the minor fights along the way and dont see the hours and days and even weeks it took to get that far, and then have them start bitching that it's overpowered or has no place in the game or etc etc.

Oh, and basket hilt longsword, that quest takes 2 people maybe 20 mins to do. I know, I've actually *done* it. You understand that Thanuk? D-O-N-E. Try it yourself some time!

Geez look at that rant. Oh well, needed to be said.

Ciao!
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Postby thanuk » Fri Jan 31, 2003 10:22 pm

Ok, ok, one twink at a time:

Oteb - Just walking around scorps grid is harder than the final fight for magebane, forget every other step.

Dizzin - Your funny for a number of reasons. Basket hilt? please. I wouldnt waste my time on that thing. Im sorry that it took you months of work to figure out the magebane quest. Actually no im not, im glad it was someone like you who would just go telling every idiot and their mother how to get one when you finished it. That way if i ever want one ill never even have to do the quest, because twinks like you and oteb will surely have extras to trade for the eq i get from actual difficult zones that you will never have the balls to go to, because why bother when you can sit on shitty airship quests and trade for it!

Comparing airship to kerns? Seriously now Image
You know what, forget the whole thing. Your never going to understand, because you cant accept the fact that the equipment you use might be too good for what it takes to get it. God forbid something you actually WORE got downgraded, scream bloody murder! So go have a good time on the airship, maybe if your brave enough youll risk the perils of Elemental Tower after!

And that, my friend, is how you rant.


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Thanuk Pantherclaw

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Postby oteb » Fri Jan 31, 2003 10:38 pm

You complete your spell...
You are surrounded by an aura of burning flames!


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by thanuk:
<B>Ok, ok, one twink at a time:

Oteb - Just walking around scorps grid is harder than the final fight for magebane, forget every other step. </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

boggle as much as you hang around on mud you never heard about skills like sneak and hide?
well i bet you didnt and bravely had balls to went there to check it yourself.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> <B>
Im sorry that it took you months of work to figure out the magebane quest. Actually no im not, im glad it was someone like you who would just go telling every idiot and their mother how to get one when you finished it. That way if i ever want one ill never even have to do the quest, because twinks like you and oteb will surely have extras to trade for the eq i get from actual difficult zones that you will never have the balls to go to, because why bother when you can sit on shitty airship quests and trade for it!
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


sorry i fail to understand. are you calling me a twink becasue i figured out some quest and reward truned out to be cool? not to mention that to figure it out i did a couple useless quest that also took some time? or maybe you calling me a twink /b reward turned out to be warrior gear (i had no idea what reward can be till i finished quest)
did you figure out gythka quest yourself or were one of: 'idiot and their mother' who were told the quest? i rember you saying that you dont do quest so i bet must the latter option.
and again. please do tell me what is the zone i have no balls to go. i think i have been in all of them marked 50 only. *shrug* well i havent done tiamat casue i was like level 25 when she was removed.

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[This message has been edited by oteb (edited 01-31-2003).]
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Postby Dezzex » Fri Jan 31, 2003 11:02 pm

I don't see what's so overpowered about any magebane... their dice is mediocre, even after the upgrade, the quest is far harder than khanjari, etched, or kirin horn, and it procs something moderately useful, but nothing I'd called out of balance.

Hell I was with Dizid throughout that whole painful quest, and I don't even have one... all I have is this wussy gythka and holy avenger, because I accidentally acquired them while walking through the park..




[This message has been edited by Dezzex (edited 01-31-2003).]
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Postby thanuk » Fri Jan 31, 2003 11:28 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by oteb:
<B>
sorry i fail to understand. are you calling me a twink becasue i figured out some quest and reward truned out to be cool? not to mention that to figure it out i did a couple useless quest that also took some time? or maybe you calling me a twink /b reward turned out to be warrior gear (i had no idea what reward can be till i finished quest)
did you figure out gythka quest yourself or were one of: 'idiot and their mother' who were told the quest? i rember you saying that you dont do quest so i bet must the latter option.
and again. please do tell me what is the zone i have no balls to go. i think i have been in all of them marked 50 only. *shrug* well i havent done tiamat casue i was like level 25 when she was removed.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Am i calling you a twink because you finished a quest and it was warrior eq at the end? Hell no, i could give a shit less what crappy little item you get your hands on. Im calling you a twink because your the kind of person who would brag about figuring out an airship quest. Seriously.

And im glad someone had the kind heart to take you to a difficult zone and let you press your inferno macro one time, although its probably because nobody else was available. So feel free to drone on and on about how difficult airship quests are, i really dont care enough to argue anymore since im home from work now Image Enjoy your magebane before they inevitably downgrade it.


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Postby oteb » Fri Jan 31, 2003 11:57 pm

I never said those quests are hard to figure out, it more like annoying to complete. ok so i am a twink casue i was happy with being one of first to complete it. let it be.
enjoying my katana with serial no 1.
enjoy your the sword. some twink bragged about finishing a quest and shared the info to 'idiot and their mother' glad you have it.

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Postby Corth » Sat Feb 01, 2003 7:29 am

Thanuk was primary tank at bronze citadel. He sees people getting nice rewards from airship quests that are time consuming to complete but not at all difficult or risky in any way. Then he remembers the reward that 15 of the best players on the mud got when they had the balls to do a zone that almost everyone else was justifiably scared to goto. The overall quality of the items from BC were similar to the overall quality of items from scorps/seers. And the magebane is probably better than all but one item from BC. Thats why hes disgruntled. Not to take any credit away from someone that figured out a quest and was rewarded...

Corth
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Postby Jegzed » Sat Feb 01, 2003 9:16 am

Corth wrote:Thanuk was primary tank at bronze citadel. He sees people getting nice rewards from airship quests that are time consuming to complete but not at all difficult or risky in any way. Then he remembers the reward that 15 of the best players on the mud got when they had the balls to do a zone that almost everyone else was justifiably scared to goto. The overall quality of the items from BC were similar to the overall quality of items from scorps/seers. And the magebane is probably better than all but one item from BC. Thats why hes disgruntled. Not to take any credit away from someone that figured out a quest and was rewarded...


Last time I checked, both Dezzex and Dizzin had finished BC multiple times, as well as having the reputation of among the best questers in the mud.

BC is not risky if you got a remotely decent group. Bel is just time-consuming.

but, you are right, BC equipment NEEDs an upgrade.
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Postby Corth » Sat Feb 01, 2003 9:39 am

Hrmm BC not risky. ..

I think probably the best way of looking at it is that its certainly less risky after you've done it once or twice.. On the other hand, I cant think of anything more risky than avernus and BC on this mud...

And I wasn't trying to take credit away from dizzin, oteb, or anyone else who does quests. I was just trying to explain why Thanuk and others sometimes get disgruntled about nice rewards from airship quests when zones like BC need better rewards. I dont doubt that there are some difficult fights, but the vast majority of the time is spent just sitting around waiting for the item you need to load on what your killing.

Corth
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Postby Yayaril » Sat Feb 01, 2003 1:06 pm

8)

Doing BC is like playing monopoly- it's a game of endurance. Frankly, I don't have enough endurance to do BC..
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Postby Celor » Sat Feb 01, 2003 5:09 pm

[quote="thanuk"]<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by moritheil:
<B> Laugh, not everyone thinks they need more to work for.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok regardless of what people think, do you think its balanced to be able to get a weapon who's proc stops spellcasting with 5 people in a few hours?

omg.. listen unless you do this quest on airship... dont even bother writing about it.. i would LOVE to watch you do it with 5 people in a few hours.. rofl.. its taking a LONG time to do.. not to mention SEVERAL vault runs.. which you need a full group for.. and if you dice the eq instead of claiming it so other people have a chance.. your not gonna finish this quest for a LONG time.. i think that weapon is perfectly balanced.. takes a long time to do.. its very discouraging.. people dont want to group with you anymore cuz you drive them crazy with the airship.. you get tired of doing same mobs over and over again.. so for the people that pull it off in the end.. bravo.. you deserve everything you get from that weapon.. besides that.. doesnt proc all the time.. whats the chance of interrupting a casting.. sure maybe if all hitters in the group are dualing them.. besides that the dam dice and hit/dam on it suck.. except maybe for the tanto.. prob not that bad compared to most daggers... not all though..
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Postby Ashiwi » Sat Feb 01, 2003 5:14 pm

I wrote a post detailing the differences between the etched and the tanto, but it got eaten by the BBS change and I'm not rewriting it. I posted the downsides to the tanto earlier, lower hit/dam, lower damage dice, and a proc that doesn't go off effectively often enough to be the superweapon Thanuk implied that it was, but apparently those weren't the valid points he was looking for. Compare the shadow etched quest with the magebane quest, then. Which one's easier? Last etched I had to get I picked up in about two hours max time, including going to the zones and getting the pieces for it. Magebane quest is MUCH more difficult and time consuming in comparison.
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Postby Tasan » Sat Feb 01, 2003 6:32 pm

Thanuk wrote:The only other weapons with procs like that are skullsmasher and rockcrusher


This is incorrect. If you need another example I can provide one.

Celor wrote:takes a long time to do.. its very discouraging.. people dont want to group with you anymore cuz you drive them crazy with the airship.. you get tired of doing same mobs over and over again..


Time in itself is not a good measure of how difficult a quest is to complete. If a quest came in that gave Surtur's stats for killing a mob 100 times, I'm sure it would be done w/o fail as much as possible. Time just doesn't mean anything towards difficulty when you are guaranteed the reward at some point.(repeatedly killing a mob that always pops, whether or not it's item is rare). Difficulty overall seems to be measured by 1) Figuring out the quest(I'll get to this in a minute) 2) Fights(areas) involved along the way and collecting the items and 3) Checking/waiting for rares to be loaded(and how rare they are).

Dezzex wrote:all I have is this wussy gythka and holy avenger, because I accidentally acquired them while walking through the park..


Perhaps you believe it has turned into this because of the widespread loose-tongued attitude towards quests as a whole lately. I'm fairly certain those who first figured this quest out were as adamant as you are now about how much they deserved their reward.

Dizzin wrote:It's the exact same deal. So like I said earlier, until you actually *do* the entire quest, yourself, from start to finish, you have NO right to declare that airship stuff is overpowered.

Getting sick and tired of people who are only involved on the periphery of events, who only see the final fight, or one of the minor fights along the way and dont see the hours and days and even weeks it took to get that far, and then have them start bitching that it's overpowered or has no place in the game or etc etc.

Oh, and basket hilt longsword, that quest takes 2 people maybe 20 mins to do. I know, I've actually *done* it. You understand that Thanuk? D-O-N-E. Try it yourself some time!


Dizzin, we've seen people spend considerably less time than weeks to complete this particular quest. Just because you watched it happen 1x, doesn't mean anything. Arilin's recent difficulties are a good example of that. I'm not saying that the quest itself doesn't take long enough or anything like that. It probably takes a fair amount of time to collect things, however the fact that many of the items on the airship are possible to get multiples times/boot creates a definate problem. Also, I'm confused by your statement about the 2nd weapon. Are you trying to point out a different quest that needs to be reevaluated?

Oh and with all due "respect", don't even attempt to compare Kern to this.

Oteb wrote:not to mention that to figure it out i did a couple useless quest that also took some time?


If you think you deserve a greater reward for doing this, then Gnerblie and many others deserve Tiamat gear for their work on BGR.

Oteb wrote:did you figure out gythka quest yourself or were one of: 'idiot and their mother' who were told the quest? i rember you saying that you dont do quest so i bet must the latter option.


Last time I checked, you didn't have to do a quest just to have an item. I'm fairly sure he was given it as a gift. Your rhetoric is rather inflammatory, though I concede that Thanuk's comments weren't cordial either.

Jegzed wrote:but, you are right, BC equipment NEEDs an upgrade.


And here's the heart of the matter... Perhaps the truth is BC doesn't need an upgrade, and just that things like the magebane do need a downgrade. I think that could be construed from the arguments here.

Just to point out a few facts for your viewing and thinking pleasure.

1. Equipment across the board is under consideration right now, this has been stated by Savras.

2. I don't dispute the fact that one person may attach a greater significance to the reward provided by doing a set task of duties than another person.

3. None of the quests described have any relavance to eachother, and no basis for comparison until the equipment balance has occurred.

4. What follows is my opinion, and I am entitled to it.

With this said, I agree with Thanuk on principle, and this does not just apply to this single quest. My entire belief is that the Airship and it's style of reward comprimises some of the intact restrictions that keep equipment from flooding the game. I don't care how many times you have to kill one mob on the ship to get a specific item, it's irrelevant to me when this mob can be done for 40 hours straight during a boot, and drop more than 1 specific item during that time. You may say that you have 'earned' such an item, but I disagree.

I feel this specific zone is rather like Everquest, and I can see why it applies to the masses. Quick rewards without much effort are lucrative. You can argue all you want about how you left the zone to get other items, but the fact remains that this zone can basically be farmed for items.

So you say, things don't have to be the same everywhere in every zone. That this zone has something to be done 15, 25, 40 hours into a boot. That this zone is more dynamic and is good because it's not the same as everything else. I agree that having a zone that is still viable 40+ hours later is a good thing. I strongly disagree that over that 40 hours you should have an equal chance at getting an item every time you kill a mob.

IMHO

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Postby Dezzex » Sat Feb 01, 2003 7:31 pm

Perhaps you believe it has turned into this because of the widespread loose-tongued attitude towards quests as a whole lately. I'm fairly certain those who first figured this quest out were as adamant as you are now about how much they deserved their reward.


I do indeed believe there is a far too loose-tongued attitude towards quests, and while I agree anyone who has done these quests themselves deserve their reward, my point about the gythka and ambran is that they are both far easier quests to figure out and do, than the magebane.

I feel this specific zone is rather like Everquest, and I can see why it applies to the masses. Quick rewards without much effort are lucrative. You can argue all you want about how you left the zone to get other items, but the fact remains that this zone can basically be farmed for items.

...

I don't care how many times you have to kill one mob on the ship to get a specific item, it's irrelevant to me when this mob can be done for 40 hours straight during a boot, and drop more than 1 specific item during that time. You may say that you have 'earned' such an item, but I disagree.


It can be farmed, sure... but is it more effort to kill a mob over and over 40 hours into boot, or is it more effort to wait for a reboot and take 5 minutes to kill it? The wait-for-a-boot-and-kill option clearly takes way less effort. You just don't end up with your horde so fast. And if that's the only issue, then effort really has nothing to do with it. You don't think someone who spent 2 hours killing the same mob over and over "earned" their item, but someone who rushed over on a boot and killed it once has?
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Postby moritheil » Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:37 am

thanuk wrote:Ok, ok, one twink at a time:

Oteb - Just walking around scorps grid is harder than the final fight for magebane, forget every other step.

Dizzin - Your funny for a number of reasons. Basket hilt? please. I wouldnt waste my time on that thing. Im sorry that it took you months of work to figure out the magebane quest. Actually no im not, im glad it was someone like you who would just go telling every idiot and their mother how to get one when you finished it. That way if i ever want one ill never even have to do the quest, because twinks like you and oteb will surely have extras to trade for the eq i get from actual difficult zones that you will never have the balls to go to, because why bother when you can sit on shitty airship quests and trade for it!


------------------
Thanuk Pantherclaw

Gargauth responds to your petition with 'whats your point, we hate you'


I will not stand idly by and let anyone mock people whom I saw spend months and months figuring out quests, when they themselves didn't do any of the actual quest work and thus can't understand the effort involved. If Oteb laughed at BC, how would you feel?

Here, take a clue and call me in the morning.


Tasan,

I bet I can think of something that would prove you wrong ;) Heh, heh.
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Postby Vahok » Sun Feb 02, 2003 3:13 am

*Tosses the towel into the ring*

Thanuk, you know I respect you as a player, but I think you got this one wrong. I know for a fact Oteb worked like a dog for this quest to be figured out and completed. Maybe the reward is sweet, but I feel it justified. I personally don't wanna do the magebanes, because I find it long and boring.
If someone has the patience to sit and kill mobs over and over to get a reward, so be it. Think of it as exping, or think of it as working out. If you workout for 4 hours a day, you get rock hard abs. Some quests involve speed and timing, some require stamina....

But I also see the other side of the coin. Shouldn't people have stamina and skills to do a 8 hr. zone get a great reward as well? If not more?

Random thoughts.....
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Postby thanuk » Sun Feb 02, 2003 3:54 am

moritheil wrote:I will not stand idly by and let anyone mock people whom I saw spend months and months figuring out quests, when they themselves didn't do any of the actual quest work and thus can't understand the effort involved. If Oteb laughed at BC, how would you feel?

Here, take a clue and call me in the morning.




Whatever man, you talk like i have never had to put effort in to anything, i think i can safely say i know what its like to spend a hell of a lot of time trying to accomplish something in this game. And if I were oteb, i would be laughing at bc! You did all that work to complete the zone and i can get items that are better than your reward from the airship? I would be laughing real hard.

Thats the point, really. It all stems from the discussion we had maybe a month ago, equipment isn't balanced well. If you guys all think that this particular quest is in balance in risk vs. reward just because you have to put in some time, thats your opinion, but i dont think so. Airship is like doing the pirate ship for exp...little risk, same fights over and over and eventually you get what your looking for. Its just not a real difficult or challenging thing. Although im sure it was much harder the first time when you had to figure everything out, its not the first time anymore and everyone knows how to do the quest. Suprise suprise.. And magebane isn't the only item you get from airship thats overpowered, but im not gonna sit here and argue with you about caster eq.
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You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'
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You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'
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Postby Ashiwi » Sun Feb 02, 2003 4:43 am

Thanuk I don't think the whole point is that it's balanced in risk vs. reward, but in effort put out for comparable gear it is. I can't speak for all the different weapon types, no, but I have yet to see how overpowered the magebanes are supposed to be. Considering the rate of effective proc just how powerful do you really consider it? It's not like I'm going to wield the tanto to solo anything, I go back to my etched daggers for that.
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Postby thanuk » Sun Feb 02, 2003 5:57 am

I think the chance to interrupt spellcasting on !bash mobs, even if just mages, is extremely powerful. From a warrior perspective, the ability to break up casting is your 2nd best ability. As a rogue i think you would understand what its like when your abilities get given out on equipment, and well they are basically handing out the ability to stop casting to every class these days, and now its on every other weapon as well. So yeah, id say even without it being anywhere near a guarentee, its still a damned powerful proc. And anyone who wants to start talking to me about weapon dice and bonuses, please just stop. Melee doesnt do anything and everybody knows it. A weapons proc is definately way more important than the dice, and honestly i dont think dice really means anything anymore, particularly on 1hand weapons. Rogues see dice as a little different i guess, so maybe its more important to you.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
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Postby Ashiwi » Sun Feb 02, 2003 6:00 am

Rogues see dice as a little different i guess, so maybe its more important to you.

Uhhh ... yeah.
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Postby Yayaril » Sun Feb 02, 2003 6:14 am

8)

Apparently Thanuk has never seen the magebane in action- It rarely if ever interrupts a spell. I think I've seen these weapons interrupt a spell a total of two times, and it didn't swing the battle. The rockcrusher and skullsmasher will always be the superior weapon for stopping !bash caster. In turn, all these weapons mean very little compared to priests casting silence and mages casting feeblemind, or spells with similar effects. As for difficulty of questing- the magebane weapons take quite a lot more effort than most, and are in my opinion, underpowered.
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Postby Dizzin » Sun Feb 02, 2003 6:33 am

Haha

I could swear Thanuk is one of the warriors who was saying: "Shieldpunching used to be the only way to stop !bash casters casting, but now mages have stuns and makes warriors even that more useless!"

And so when a pain in the ass quest is added to increase melee's ability to stop casters casting, and give melee a little extra versatility, You start whining that it's all unbalanced!

Frankly, I see Thanuk as someone who doesn't like questing. That he believes only items he can get from mindlessly killing in a zone should be superior to all else. And *please* dont try to bring up BC again and how you spent 10 hours in there wanking your dog while fighting demons yadda yadda. Anyone who's been there knows it's not *that* difficult, just time consuming. Guess what, so is Airship! And no I'm not saying they're equal, but they certainly have parallels.

For the record, of course BC eq should be upgraded, save the dagger for obvious reasons. And I assume that when the area makers finish sifting though all the items in all the major zones in the mud, there will be a bunch of downgrades, and possibly a few upgrades. But I'm betting magebanes wont be on either. :P
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Postby thanuk » Sun Feb 02, 2003 7:26 am

Dizzin, i dont get what part of this is confusing. I was complaining that warriors are more useless because everyone can stop spells better than they can, and now im saying that a weapon that does that too is unbalanced, because there shouldnt be that many ways to stop mobs from casting so easily available to everyone.

I dont think magebane weapons throw off balance. I think its a cool proc and a nice piece of eq, that should be harder to get because of how good it is. Its not an unbalancing item because of what it does, its an unbalancing item because its easy to get considering how good it is.

And for the record, i didnt bring up BC, the rest of you did, i just responded to someone who used it in an example when replying to me. And yes, BC eq should be upgraded. But guess what? It wont happen. EQ is overpowered as it is, you cant make the stuff from BC any better, and thats not the only zone thats eq is underpowered for its relative difficulty. But there's no room for eq to get better, its pretty much reached its limit. So instead you downgrade equipment that is easy to get, so that there is room to balance it.

I dont personally enjoy questing, but i have nothing against a quest with a good reward. I have done numerous quests to get pieces of equipment that i want. I dont quest for fun, but i dont see what that has to do with anything. I also dont see how killing a zone "mindlessly" is different from killing the same mob mindlessly until a piece of eq loads, except maybe that in the zone theres a chance you might die.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
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Postby Sylvos » Sun Feb 02, 2003 1:30 pm

You guys are confusing difficult with time consuming. Airship is time consuming. You are able to choose when you tackle the larger fights, with groups built specifically for those fights. They have some technical difficulty involved - the mob that procs pris for instance - but on the whole the hardest part about the zone is both waiting for your rareload item to finally pop (which it can do on every repop) and gathering people to do a fight that they don't really stand to benefit from.

Time consumption != difficult. It just makes it take longer.
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Postby Sylvos » Sun Feb 02, 2003 1:31 pm

You guys are confusing difficult with time consuming. Airship is time consuming. You are able to choose when you tackle the larger fights, with groups built specifically for those fights. They have some technical difficulty involved - the mob that procs pris for instance - but on the whole the hardest part about the zone is both waiting for your rareload item to finally pop (which it can do on every repop) and gathering people to do a fight that they don't really stand to benefit from.

Time consumption != difficult. It just makes it take longer.
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Postby Yayaril » Sun Feb 02, 2003 5:00 pm

8)

Thanuk, must you bring up BC in every single one of your arguments? We all understand that you spent some time in there and the rewards were kind of weak, but that's no reason to chitter on about it constantly. I'm sure BC will get looked at and eventually upgraded in equipment, so just give it a rest.
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Postby thanuk » Sun Feb 02, 2003 6:24 pm

god i hate you yayaril.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'

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