Canada, who's goin' with me?!

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Kifle
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Canada, who's goin' with me?!

Postby Kifle » Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:42 pm

Yeah, I guess idiots turned out in record numbers this year to give us four more years of 1984. As soon as I can talk my wife into moving north, I'm gone...Maybe it was that administrations strategy to lower the education level in the country so they could actually win...oh well...have fun guys.
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Postby Rytnor » Wed Nov 03, 2004 8:59 pm

"The sixfold company in two divides;
Another way my sapient Guide conducts me
Forth from the quiet to the air that trembles;
And to a place I come where nothing shines..."
-Dante, Inferno: Canto IV

I definitely hear you, Kifle. This is very, very disheartening.

I hope that the national grassroots momentum that was generated for the election doesn't dissipate, but continues to affect legislation on the local level. There are some good networks going and they can be a powerful force if they continue to organize as they have for this election.

Sigh...
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Postby Corth » Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:17 pm

Go for it!
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

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Postby Shar » Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:30 pm

but, will you still log in? if so, then... see ya! *nog me*
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Postby Vahok » Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:20 pm

You couldn't hack it Kifle. Unless you can play hockey, chug real beer and properly use "eh"...

But welcome aboard if you can!!
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Postby rylan » Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:37 pm

Can you at least take the Baldwins with you this time?
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Postby Kifle » Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:39 am

Vahok wrote:You couldn't hack it Kifle. Unless you can play hockey, chug real beer and properly use "eh"...

But welcome aboard if you can!!


Heh, I can play espn hockey for the xbox, I don't drink, and I can use "eh" very well. I've already got a job lined up for me and my wife with full benefits and am applying to the University of Toronto. If all goes well, we should be there next year :) (still trying to talk her into it too :()

Off to the land of milk and honey!!!
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Postby Duna » Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:17 am

Just found this on yahoo news... :)

Unhappy Democrats Need to Wait to Get Into Canada

OTTAWA (Reuters) - Disgruntled Democrats seeking a safe Canadian haven after President Bush won Tuesday's election should not pack their bags just yet.

Canadian officials made clear on Wednesday that any U.S. citizens so fed up with Bush that they want to make a fresh start up north would have to stand in line like any other would-be immigrants -- a wait that can take up to a year.

"You just can't come into Canada and say 'I'm going to stay here'. In other words, there has to be an application. There has to be a reason why the person is coming to Canada," said immigration ministry spokeswoman Maria Iadinardi.


If it wasn't for that I would consider moving up there :) I don't drink beer, but I can play hockey and am quite fluent in the use of "eh" :)
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Postby Kifle » Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:19 am

What's the link to that, Duna? Also, I plan on getting me and my wife there on student visas and then applying for citizenship after I graduate...it should be easier than just a regular immigration...faster too.
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Postby Duna » Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:20 am

amolol
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Postby amolol » Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:02 am

sowhat if bush is ... what one would call... sub stabdard... he was a better cantidate than kerry... at least bush knew where he stood on the issues. and at least bush had outlined a plan for his next term.... as far as i can tell kerry was just gonna "wing it"

besides canada has higher taxes... move to mexico... better tequila and nobody cares if you go in or not...
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Postby Sarvis » Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:07 am

Amolol:

Far more Kerry supporters know where Kerry stands on issues than Bush supporters know where Bush stands on issues.

Also, just because Kerry's ideas weren't simple enough to be made into a 10 second soundbyte does NOT mean he didn't have plans. It means his plans were too complex for Bush supporters to understand.

Kerry's greatest failing was that his ideas took more than 1 sentence with multiple syllables to express...
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Postby Shar » Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:26 am

Sarvis wrote:...It means his plans were too complex for Bush supporters to understand...


bahahhaa. that made me laugh. how funny!!
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Postby Kifle » Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:07 am

Shar wrote:
Sarvis wrote:...It means his plans were too complex for Bush supporters to understand...


bahahhaa. that made me laugh. how funny!!



Funny, but true. Look at the census. Look at who didn't vote for bush. College students, college professors, highschool teachers, etc...You know, the ones that are smart and can understand more than a curious george book.
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Postby Duna » Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:35 am

Hey now... watch the generalizations.. I'm not a teacher or student.. hell I"m not even a college grad, and I still voted for Kerry.. ;)
I'm not all that smart most days :P
no really, ask around, most people can tell you I act/talk like a blonde :)
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Postby Dlur » Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:36 am

Can't wait until all you hippies move to Canada. Then I won't have to worry about you standing around smoking pot and smelling like patouli. And I certainly won't have to worry about paying for you to go to college or sit at home and not work on my dime.
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Postby Corth » Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:49 am

Kifle wrote:Funny, but true. Look at the census. Look at who didn't vote for bush. College students, college professors, highschool teachers, etc...You know, the ones that are smart and can understand more than a curious george book.


Heheh, keep it up. Thats the sort of attitude that alienates half the country from your party. :)

Though for such a smart guy, I would imagine that you would know that theres a difference between a census and ummm... poll results.
Last edited by Corth on Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Kifle » Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:50 am

The truth hurts, man. If they don't like it, why don't they get an education instead of drinking moonshine and humping their cousins?
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Postby Corth » Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:51 am

Exactly.. you make an excellent point and I do believe that you should make sure that as many people as possible hear it :)
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Postby Yayaril » Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:58 am

8)

What are you talking aboot?
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Postby Dalar » Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:07 am

Kifle wrote:
Shar wrote:
Sarvis wrote:...It means his plans were too complex for Bush supporters to understand...


bahahhaa. that made me laugh. how funny!!



Funny, but true. Look at the census. Look at who didn't vote for bush. College students, college professors, highschool teachers, etc...You know, the ones that are smart and can understand more than a curious george book.


My TA voted for Bush and she's pretty smart. So you got a job in Canada? Damn, we should all go there.
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Postby Kifle » Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:12 am

Dalar wrote:
Kifle wrote:
Shar wrote:
Sarvis wrote:...It means his plans were too complex for Bush supporters to understand...


bahahhaa. that made me laugh. how funny!!



Funny, but true. Look at the census. Look at who didn't vote for bush. College students, college professors, highschool teachers, etc...You know, the ones that are smart and can understand more than a curious george book.


My TA voted for Bush and she's pretty smart. So you got a job in Canada? Damn, we should all go there.


There's always a minority, man. And yes, I have a job lined up in Canada for 30k a year + benefits. As long as my scholorships will transfer over, it should be easy.
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Postby Kifle » Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:13 am

Corth wrote:Exactly.. you make an excellent point and I do believe that you should make sure that as many people as possible hear it :)


I actually voiced this in my ethics class earlier today. The two bush supporters shut their mouths quickly after losing a quick debate afterwards.
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heh I preempted the whole mess

Postby daggaz » Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:56 pm

It didnt take bush to make me leave, I realized the corruption and hypocracy as a grade-schooler and jumped on my chance to get the hell out and learn something about the rest of the real worl as soon as I could....five years ago it was.

Happily living now in Denmark, getting free health care (like most of the first world) of an excellent quality, a free university education (thats actually special) of equally excellent quality, along with a host of other bonuses (like the 15 dollar minimum wage, guaranteed five weeks payed vacation for any job, and a remarkably low crime rate- including political/corporate corruption, which is practically nill).

Sure, I pay almost 40% in taxes for all this, but believe me ITS WORTH IT and I still have way more money than I ever had in the states. Not to mention unparalleled freedoms compared to the state of todays USA (ive never been harassed by the police so much in my life as last time i went home to visit....and I have visited communist countries like Cuba and Russia. Not to mention the scandinavian currency is one of the highest rated in the world, so I live like a king whenever I travel, which is so easy to do looking at the vacation rules and the curious fact that air travel is about half as expensive from europe as it is from the states.

Its of course not perfect here, but it sure as hell feels a lot nicer knowing that the high majority of everyone is cooperative, peaceful, and actually working for a better world. And please dont tell me bombs save lives. They save a perverse way of life for some by killing many others. I wont argue this with anybody who isnt well read in history, american foreign politics, and global economics.

Best thing about denmark? People are generally very well educated, well traveled, open minded, tolerant, and they abhor arrogance, ignorance, and aggression. And Corth doesn't live here.
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Re: heh I preempted the whole mess

Postby Sarvis » Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:37 pm

daggaz wrote:It didnt take bush to make me leave, I realized the corruption and hypocracy as a grade-schooler and jumped on my chance to get the hell out and learn something about the rest of the real worl as soon as I could....five years ago it was.

Happily living now in Denmark, getting free health care (like most of the first world) of an excellent quality, a free university education (thats actually special) of equally excellent quality, along with a host of other bonuses (like the 15 dollar minimum wage, guaranteed five weeks payed vacation for any job, and a remarkably low crime rate- including political/corporate corruption, which is practically nill).

Sure, I pay almost 40% in taxes for all this, but believe me ITS WORTH IT and I still have way more money than I ever had in the states. Not to mention unparalleled freedoms compared to the state of todays USA (ive never been harassed by the police so much in my life as last time i went home to visit....and I have visited communist countries like Cuba and Russia. Not to mention the scandinavian currency is one of the highest rated in the world, so I live like a king whenever I travel, which is so easy to do looking at the vacation rules and the curious fact that air travel is about half as expensive from europe as it is from the states.

Its of course not perfect here, but it sure as hell feels a lot nicer knowing that the high majority of everyone is cooperative, peaceful, and actually working for a better world. And please dont tell me bombs save lives. They save a perverse way of life for some by killing many others. I wont argue this with anybody who isnt well read in history, american foreign politics, and global economics.

Best thing about denmark? People are generally very well educated, well traveled, open minded, tolerant, and they abhor arrogance, ignorance, and aggression. And Corth doesn't live here.


Too bad they don't speak english in Denmark, sounds nice.

How does one go about getting jobs in foreign countries? Canada's OK, but too cold in winter (I'm from Buffalo... it's cold enough here and it only gets worse further north!)

I was actually trying to look for a co-op in Ireland, because the scenery is nice and I like their accent, a couple years ago.

But screw it, I'll take a job anywhere and I see no reason at this point to limiting my search to this sinking ship of a country...

How hard is Denmark's language to learn? ;) They looking for programmers?
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Postby Kifle » Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:00 pm

For Canada there are several work visas available which takes quite a lot less time to aquire than a straight citizenship. You'll work under a temporary visa and apply for citizenship afterwards. I'm not too sure how it works in other countries, but I'm guessing it would be similar.
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Postby Ashiwi » Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:09 pm

I'm gonna go move in with Lilithelle. She doesn't know it yet, so don't tell her.
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Postby Lilithelle » Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:49 pm

Your welcome to come up Ashiwi, I'll get out the guest bed. If anyone like Gormal wants to come up I'll get out the pest bed... I'm sure I have a board somewhere I can drive nails into.

I wouldn't personally live anywhere but the west coast of Canada, but then I hate the cold. Try Vancouver, it only gets snow a couple weeks every year and good skiing(Whistler) is close by. Of course it gets alot of rain in the winter and that takes getting used to. Victoria is an even better place to live, the climate is a bit warmer than vancouver in winter, a bit cooler in summer and alot less rainy. Just harder to find work there.
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Postby Dalar » Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:26 pm

Plus there's alot of hot asian women there.
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Postby rylan » Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:45 pm

I heard that lots of Taiwanese are basically buying up pieces of Canada.
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Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:37 am

good riddance.

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eh

Postby muma » Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:52 am

Canada has crappy healthcare because it's socialized.

on a sidenote, i voted for Bush and am proud of it.

this puts me aside from the common college student/person-of-my-age-group who follow the media because they think it teaches them about politics.

college kids vote democratic because they're young, poor, naive and inexperienced. (except for me, haha)

teachers vote democratic because they are poor.

college professors may vote democratic because they want the government to have more control over the stupid, weak masses.

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Re: eh

Postby Kifle » Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:45 am

muma wrote:Canada has crappy healthcare because it's socialized.

on a sidenote, i voted for Bush and am proud of it.

this puts me aside from the common college student/person-of-my-age-group who follow the media because they think it teaches them about politics.

college kids vote democratic because they're young, poor, naive and inexperienced. (except for me, haha)

teachers vote democratic because they are poor.

college professors may vote democratic because they want the government to have more control over the stupid, weak masses.

If you are struggling in life, work as hard as possible; then you won't have anything to complain about.


Case and point...

/end
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Postby Imis9 » Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:48 am

You rock Muma.

Can I just mention that Bush did not just win. He got the largest popular vote EVER, even more than Reagan did. Not only that, but Bush had coat tails with Republicans taking 4 or 5 new seats in the Senate. In addition, Republicans took more seats in the House.

Not trying to be rude, but do you think maybe most Americans don't agree with the radical left? Could that be possible that self-important, all-knowing intellectuals on the left don't know it all? *gasp* Put up another liberal from MA and they'll lose too.
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Postby Kifle » Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:58 am

Imis9 wrote:You rock Muma.

Can I just mention that Bush did not just win. He got the largest popular vote EVER, even more than Reagan did. Not only that, but Bush had coat tails with Republicans taking 4 or 5 new seats in the Senate. In addition, Republicans took more seats in the House.

Not trying to be rude, but do you think maybe most Americans don't agree with the radical left? Could that be possible that self-important, all-knowing intellectuals on the left don't know it all? *gasp* Put up another liberal from MA and they'll lose too.


No, this just means that the majority of the American populace are very ignorant. Seriously, how many average americans reallly understand economics to a degree that would be necessary to understand both party's stances? How many of the average American's have ever used empathy to formulate an opinion on things such as socialized medicine or war? Not many. If you walk down the street and ask somebody what trickle-down economics is, they will probably not even be able to use simple deductive logic to define it using context clues. The average American is poorly educated and cares little about other people. If you don't believe me on the latter, just look into the ccase of Winston Mosley...that's not the only example, but I'm too lazy to find others. People that actually understood the debates and the platforms, as far as majority and the census shows, voted for Kerry. All the vote really shows is that Americans, on a large scale, don't know much about the world outside of themselves.
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Postby Imis9 » Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:06 am

Bah, because people disagree with your leftist views they are suddenly stupid? From my viewpoint, you lack an understanding of economics if you buy the socialist/communist garbage about health care and the like. In many folks' opinion, people that voted for Kerry would be the idiots. America doesn't want socialized medicine with 50%, 60% or even 80% taxes. America is not a pacificist country that will let other countries walk on us. If other countries count on us to be pacifists, they counted wrong. America is special in the world, we believe in independence and freedom. If you think other countries are better than us, then you are the moron. It's that simple.
Last edited by Imis9 on Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Corth » Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:16 am

Well said, Imis.

Though I would try not to discourage them from saying that people in 'flyover country' are stupid. Its the number one reason that 'flyover country' wins elections for those who would keep America strong and prosperous.

Corth
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Postby Sarvis » Fri Nov 05, 2004 3:07 am

1) Most people who voted based on economic concerns voted for Kerry.

2) Most people who voted for Bush, some 80% of his damn vote, voted based on "moral issues."

This election was not decided by intelligence, education or knowledge of the issues. It was decided by bible thumpers who need someone to discriminate against and have chosen gays.

Muma:

Kerry was HARDLY radical left.

If you are struggling in life, work as hard as possible; then you won't have anything to complain about.


Bull.

I've seen people work hard all their lives. I've seen my own damn mother do it. I've seen her work in phosphate plantsand come home with acid burns all over her arms, unable to even use her hands. I've watched her work 13 hour days 7 days a week, I've watched her work her way through college while keeping me fed.

Her reward for all this hard work? She's 50 and only has the house she inherited from my grandfather, which is about to collapse and she can't afford to fix it without incurring even more debt. She'll never be able to retire, she's only JUST now gotten a job which gives healthcare... though not a very high wage.

Hard work gets you nothing.

If you think it does, you were probably born rich or just got very lucky.

Class mobility is very limited in this country, and it's only gotten harder since Bush took office and started bleeding away the middle class jobs. Next they want to get rid of the government subsidy for student loans, meaning college is one less opportunity those in the lower classes can afford.

Until you've actually tried to raise a family on less than $8/hour STFU, because you know nothing of what you are talking about.
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Postby Corth » Fri Nov 05, 2004 3:16 am

Hard work gets you nowhere. Government handouts, derived from the sweat of those who work hard (and the ebil corporations!) will get you somewhere!
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Nov 05, 2004 3:25 am

I do have to agree in part with Sarvis, Muma. You don't know what the meaning of poor is until you realize that going to college means feeding your family rice and beans.

It can be very difficult in this country to get by on just hard work, seeing as how sometimes hard work only pays $10/hour.

The quintessential American value has always been resourcefulness, hope, and the willingness to take risks. More importantly that opportunities were available.

For a while I had managed a mechanic's shop, and many of the guys that came through were those kinds of people.

They would work 50-60 hours a week, going home late at night covered in sweat and grease, too exhausted to think about picking up a book or doing calculus homework.

I can understand them when they tell me their stories. Supporting a family, babies on the way, health insurance that we couldn't cover for them so they had to pay their own way.

But, where I do have to disagree with you Sarvis, is that, in this country, making a better life for yourself and your family is never an impossibility. Hard work alone will not change your life.

It is the hard work, resourcefulness, willing to accept helping hands, the adventurous spirit that allows you to take risks, and the hope to look up to the giants among you, that has the most bountiful rewards.

Most immigrants will tell you, Only In America.
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Postby Imis9 » Fri Nov 05, 2004 3:25 am

Part of working hard is working hard at the right job. There's a difference between working hard dumbly and working hard. You say your mom worked to get through college. What kind of degree did she get in college because she should have been able to get a better job. If this is a good job, let's assume she got paid $20 an hour. 40 * 20 = $800 a week. $800 * 52 = $41,600. This isn't great money, and it doesn't take various taxes into consideration. That said, she should've been able to put some cash into a retirement plan.

We all have to take responsiblity for our actions and choices. There's nothing that says you can't get a better job, just have some imagination and some drive. Hard work does get you places, stop whining to justify people's own laziness or lack of inspiration. Lastly, anyone that tries to raise a family on $8 an hour is just plain silly.
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Postby Iaiken Toransier » Fri Nov 05, 2004 3:37 am

You poor bastards...

*sigh*

No matter who won people on the other side were bound to be dissapointed, there's no use in complaining about it after the fact anyhow.

For those of you who question government regulation of corporations, auto insurance companies in north america posted a profit of 627% over last year. Yet that wasn't a popular issue, however government intervention would have helped make a noticable difference for millions of americans.

As for the bible thumpers, it can be contested that there are democrats who vote democrat just because they always have, or because thier parents did and so forth. Not the most educated way to form an oppinion, but a vote's a vote.

Anywho, at the current trend, the Canadian dollar should hit par with the US dollar before bushes next term is out. It's up to $0.8219 US since bush took office, that's a gain of more than 20 cents since Bush took office.

So I guess moving to Canada is getting better and better looking.

And the women here are hot, they balance out the frigidity of the winter.
Last edited by Iaiken Toransier on Fri Nov 05, 2004 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Kifle » Fri Nov 05, 2004 3:38 am

Imis9 wrote:Part of working hard is working hard at the right job. There's a difference between working hard dumbly and working hard. You say your mom worked to get through college. What kind of degree did she get in college because she should have been able to us that to get a better job. If this is a good job, let's assume she got paid $20 an hour. 40 * 20 = $800 a week. $800 * 52 = $41,600. This isn't great money, and it doesn't take various taxes into consideration. That said, she should've been able to put some cash into a retirement plan.

We all have to take responsiblity for our actions and choices. There's nothing that says you can't get a better job, just have some imagination and some drive. Hard work does get you places, stop whining to justify people's own laziness or lack of inspiration. Lastly, anyone that tries to raise a family on $8 an hour is just plain silly.


So, by your standards, somebody with a bachelor's degree in electronics, a bachelors in robotics, and 20+ yrs experience in the field should be able to get a job easily as long as they try, right? Wrong, son. My father has been looking for a job for the past 2 years after his company (Undersea sensor systems inc.) downsized and moved. He has yet to get past the second interview. My father is one of the most intelligent and hard working people I have ever met, yet he can't find a job. I'd just love to see you make your speech in front of people like my dad and see how close to the door you get before you lose an eye. I'd really love to see you step into these people's shoes for a few years and come back and tell us how easy and fair it is here. It is just impossible for you to see the world from anybody's eyes but your own, and that is your downfall. You may be intelligent, you may be well informed, but you lack empathy.

So which of my father's actions where wrong? Which did he not take responsibility for? My father has had a job and has worked hard since he was 8 years old. He has served in the Airforce during Vietnam (not bush's airforce). He payed his own way through college and worked full time while he was there. He has two hard earned degrees. He has never been on welfare and has always done things on his own or he suffered. Tell me exactly what my father did wrong so I can go tell him. So, he's got the drive, he's got the motivation, he's got the skills, he's got the education...what is he lacking, Imis? You tell me this so he can support himself and my mother....just tell me so I can tell him...please.

The fact of the matter is you don't have the damn answers. For all your intelligence, you can't answer that. You know why? Because your ideals are scewed. You have only taken into account YOUR experience and the experiences the people you may know or may have heard about on TV. The fact of the matter is, there are not enough jobs to facilitate 100% of the college graduates. There are not enough jobs to facilitate the highschool graduates. It is luck, and that's it. I can find you 1 million people who have worked their entire life, started their own businesses, had the drive, had the education, but still have nothing. I can find you 1 million single parents who work 2+ jobs and still can't feed their children 3 meals a day and afford secondary education. I can find you 1 million people that got shafted during the stock market and saw no justice. I can find you 1 million people who have been forced into bankruptcy because of this floundering economy. (I could care less whether there have been some odd million mcdonalds jobs created in the last year, it is a floundering economy.) I can find you 1 million veterens that are unable to function like you and me because of a war that they didn't want to be in and didn't believe in... Now tell me again how it is just that damn easy to be successful here in America.
Last edited by Kifle on Fri Nov 05, 2004 3:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Imis9 » Fri Nov 05, 2004 3:40 am

I admit it this is mean in advance.

[quote="Kifle
There's always a minority, man. And yes, I have a job lined up in Canada for 30k a year + benefits. As long as my scholorships will transfer over, it should be easy.[/quote]

30K! Wow, way to aim high! *thumbs up mightily*
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Postby Imis9 » Fri Nov 05, 2004 3:46 am

Um, I have clients who have had things like this happen. They start consulting and work their way into a company or go back to get the master's in their field. I don't know exactly what his job was, but there are tons of underwater cable and other specialty companies like that which will hire folks that are good. Hell, I have a relative that get a buy out retirement at Tyco's underwater cable division and he now makes more going back consulting for them and other companies in the field.

Listen, getting the straight talk can be tough. It's never fun to hear, "You're doing the wrong thing." Sometimes, it's necessary though. Once again, it is not enough just to work hard, but you have to take control of your career. I try not to feel sorry for folks because that just reinforces their own victimization. Instead, I try to help folks rebuild their lives and actually make them better.
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Postby Iaiken Toransier » Fri Nov 05, 2004 3:48 am

Kifle wrote:You may be intelligent, you may be well informed, but you lack empathy.


Get used to it, most people are like that, someday you'll probably be selfish and jaded like just about everyone, but I hope not.
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Postby Kifle » Fri Nov 05, 2004 3:54 am

teflor the ranger wrote:I do have to agree in part with Sarvis, Muma. You don't know what the meaning of poor is until you realize that going to college means feeding your family rice and beans.

It can be very difficult in this country to get by on just hard work, seeing as how sometimes hard work only pays $10/hour.

The quintessential American value has always been resourcefulness, hope, and the willingness to take risks. More importantly that opportunities were available.

For a while I had managed a mechanic's shop, and many of the guys that came through were those kinds of people.

They would work 50-60 hours a week, going home late at night covered in sweat and grease, too exhausted to think about picking up a book or doing calculus homework.

I can understand them when they tell me their stories. Supporting a family, babies on the way, health insurance that we couldn't cover for them so they had to pay their own way.

But, where I do have to disagree with you Sarvis, is that, in this country, making a better life for yourself and your family is never an impossibility. Hard work alone will not change your life.

It is the hard work, resourcefulness, willing to accept helping hands, the adventurous spirit that allows you to take risks, and the hope to look up to the giants among you, that has the most bountiful rewards.

Most immigrants will tell you, Only In America.


So true...but while it's not impossible, there is a very very small percentage of hard workers that actually do get ahead. It's at most a false hope and shouldn't be relied upon. Also, if the republicans had their way, there would be no helping hands.
Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'

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Thalidyrr tells you 'Yeah, you know, getting it like a jackhammer wears you out.'

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Postby Kifle » Fri Nov 05, 2004 3:56 am

Imis9 wrote:I admit it this is mean in advance.

Kifle wrote:There's always a minority, man. And yes, I have a job lined up in Canada for 30k a year + benefits. As long as my scholorships will transfer over, it should be easy.


30K! Wow, way to aim high! *thumbs up mightily*


It's call an entry level job. Most people in my decentlly sized town don't even make 18k per year...so that's quite a step up concidering the value of the canadian dollar these days. I'd also be going to school full time...so yeah, I am aiming high. Read the post, soak it in, save ignorant comments to yourself so you don't get embarassed.
Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'

Kifle puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Thalidyrr tells you 'Yeah, you know, getting it like a jackhammer wears you out.'

Teflor "You can beat a tank with a shovel!!1!1!!one!!1!uno!!"
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Postby Kifle » Fri Nov 05, 2004 4:00 am

Imis9 wrote:Um, I have clients who have had things like this happen. They start consulting and work their way into a company or go back to get the master's in their field. I don't know exactly what his job was, but there are tons of underwater cable and other specialty companies like that which will hire folks that are good. Hell, I have a relative that get a buy out retirement at Tyco's underwater cable division and he now makes more going back consulting for them and other companies in the field.

Listen, getting the straight talk can be tough. It's never fun to hear, "You're doing the wrong thing." Sometimes, it's necessary though. Once again, it is not enough just to work hard, but you have to take control of your career. I try not to feel sorry for folks because that just reinforces their own victimization. Instead, I try to help folks rebuild their lives and actually make them better.


It's a company that bought out ratheon...it's a defense contractor. Something that probably should have created jobs around this time, but they didn't somehow. Outsourcing is cool, huh? Like I said for every one person that you can find that got by or has it good now because they "worked hard" I can find you 100 that have done the same and got nothing. You are an idealist and are wrong here.
Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'

Kifle puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Thalidyrr tells you 'Yeah, you know, getting it like a jackhammer wears you out.'

Teflor "You can beat a tank with a shovel!!1!1!!one!!1!uno!!"
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Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Nov 05, 2004 4:02 am

Kifle wrote:So true...but while it's not impossible, there is a very very small percentage of hard workers that actually do get ahead. It's at most a false hope and shouldn't be relied upon. Also, if the republicans had their way, there would be no helping hands.


I'm very sorry, but I see no reason why that statement would be true. A republican president, house, and senate approved funding for government programs in assistance for education, minorities, welfare, etc.

Also, the helping hands I spoke of aren't necessarily governmental. They can be faith-based, (gatherings from church congregations), community assitance programs, scholarships, Bill Gates Foundation, a whole host of other hands that have always been there for Americans.

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