Ashiwi wrote:I know I'm going to regret saying anything here, but I just thought I'd point out that this logic doesn't have anything to do with "facts," as it's speculation based on personal experience, which is purely subjective.
Granted, you've got me there. Though it is technically a fact that I can name more franchises in my area than non-franchises.
Just because you can't name the locally owned businesses doesn't mean there aren't a lot of them. I just got off the phone with a fellow in the Community Development Agency here in Oklahoma City, and I was disappointed to find out that the general ownership of a business isn't part of the local business census. In the area I live in, however, there's probably fifteen to twenty locally owned businesses to every chain outlet... that I can see on first glance... and that's being generous towards the chains. That does not include businesses which typically aren't visible to the naked eye, such as appliance repair, music lessons, and other such businesses run from the individual's home. If you live in an upscale market, that number's going to change, with the chain business numbers growing (for instance, around a shopping mall, or along the business strip that follows the expressway).
All started by people with no money at all too, I'm sure.
There's a nice little pizza restaurant around the corner from my apartment which has some of the best pizza I've ever had. It was started by a couple of ex-Pappa John's delivery drivers who disagreed with the company's business practices and decided to strike out on their own. Perhaps they took out a small business loan, which would support your 'it takes money to make money' statement, but if you ask them, they'll definitely tell you their dream started before they had any money to close the deal. Maybe they're not wealthy yet, but that leads to your next statement...
What does dreaming have to do with anything? Everyone dreams, Corth just seems to think you can turn that dream into reality by working a few extra hours a day and saving up.
How are you defining wealth? Do you have to be able to set aside an untouched million dollars in order to be wealthy? Do you have to have a certain amount of assets in the bank at the end of the fiscal year?
I'm not necessarily defining, or trying to define wealth here. More to the point is that people who have extra money tend to accumulate more extra money, while people who are struggling like me tend to remain struggling or become even worse off over time. Corth takes it for granted that it is a Good Thing(tm) that Bill Gates has billions of dollars that he has no real use for other than gaining even _more_ money, while I see people struggling to even buy medicine for their children who can't even be the consumers Bill depends on for his fortune.
In comparison to how he began, Corth's grandfather ended up very wealthy. As for Corth's student loans for his education... he had to apply for those loans, so technically his dream started before he had money. Certainly, our government had to have the money for him to make money, and people had to pay taxes for the government to have that money, and you can devolve into arguments like that to prove any kind of point you wanted... even proving that every success today relies on the development of the first economy using rocks and twigs. That's kind of a given, isn't it? Isn't Corth's point more than you don't have to be wealthy to become more wealthy than you are?
The point here isn't that everything depends on something before it... well, in a way it is. That is part of what I think Corth is missing actually.
The point I was making is that Corth is pretty strongly against "socialist" policies that would take "his" money and redistribute it to those who might need it more. Yet he has no problem whatsoever benefitting from those kinds of policies himself. In fact, Republicans in congress are even now considering ending the student loan subsidy that is keeping his loan rates so low! He's complaining about 28 years? How would he feel about 30 or 40 years? Of course he's safe since I don't think they want to make it retroactive... (So am I thank god!)
I definately got distracted by that whole Grandfather thing, sice Corth basically refused to even argue in good faith at that point. I couldn't find numbers myself, but I'm willing to be that we would find it was easier to start a business back than than it is now. Or at least easier to start a succesful one!
However the comparison between Corth's grandfather and Corth is this:
Worked 18 hours a day to afford his own business.
Borrowed other people's money to start his own business, then tells other people they should just work harder and it'll all work out.
I'm sure that's probably all I'm going to post here. Feel free to flame me all you want,
I generally don't flame people. Teflor and Ambar have earned it repeatedly, but I am pretty sure I haven't flamed anyone else in this thread. I did call Corth a hypocrite, but I stand by that as a valid description of his actions regarding student loans while telling me to stop expecting "handouts."
but honestly Sarvis, you're aggressive and hateful on the BBS, and then you wonder why people jump on you, when you seem to encourage it. You thrive on conflict, letting each disagreement build you up farther until you're fairly well frothing. I'm not very apt at debate, and I'll be the first to admit that, but there's no way I'd tackle you in a debate, because you tend to split hairs, argue inanities, take absolutely everything out of context if it suits your point, and then on top of it all, you resort to name-calling, chest-beating and crying...
Where'd I name call now? Or cry? Not even sure what you mean by chest-beating...
Can I get a little vehement at times? Yes, but that _mostly_ happens when someone is appearing deliberately dense and either offering up a completely inane argument or just repeating themself and saying I'm wrong. Such as when Teflor started responding to every point people made with just one swear-word. (This is a large part of why I no longer care if I flame him.)
and then you make sure everybody understands exactly how much more mature you are than everybody else. I get the feeling that in a real debate, you'd be the one covering the cameras in spittle, right before jumping the podium and taking a swing at your opponent.
Really? Other than Ambar who have I made that claim to now? I stand by it too, since I don't feel some need to wander through threads telling people to stop enjoying their discussion because I don't like it.
At least _you_ added to the discussion, tried to take a stance and add to the discussion. All Ambar did was tell me to shut up. I apologize if you think I react unkindly to such things, but I see no reason to stand for it.
In fact, when people are being reasonable and actually trying to take part in discussion, rather than call me out or just act dumb, things go quite smoothly in general. Go read the end of that gay marriage thread, Sephraem and I finished that discussion up with almost perfect civility.
Okay, so you like a good debate... or at least a frenzied one. If that's the case, then surely you realize that you're posting in a public forum, and you should expect public comment. If you don't want public comments, then the obvious answer is to take it to a private forum... but you don't, you continue to make a spectacle of yourself in public, which logically leads one to assume that you seek the confrontation, creating a situation in which you can feel free to insult others all you want in the name of a cause which you create. If you just want a good bout of name-calling, why didn't you say so?
Again you need to point out where I am hurling all these insults...
And I don't mind public comments on the topic at all. But two people trolling through every thread I take part in and insulting me or trying to bait me is going to get a reaction. Neither of them are taking part in this thread in any meaningful way, that seems pretty clear to me.
Well okay, it's your thread, go for it... but stating your maturity level after resorting to name-calling isn't doing a whole lot for your credibility.
I believe the only name calling I did in this thread was directed at Ambar, who entered this thread specifically to call me a moron. I responded in kind.
If you feel like responding to nothing else at least answer this please:
Did this post seem overly vehement, confrontational, aggressive or hateful to you?