Mother explains fatal pit bull mauling

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Yarash
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Mother explains fatal pit bull mauling

Postby Yarash » Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:49 pm

Here's a person who shouldn't be allowed to have pets or children.

http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/monte ... 878889.htm

Associated Press

SAN FRANCISCO - The mother of a 12-year-old boy killed in his own home by one of the family's two pit bulls says she had been so concerned about one of the dogs that she shut her son in the basement to protect him.

Maureen Faibish said she ordered Nicholas to stay in the basement while she did errands on June 3, the day he was attacked by one or both of the dogs. She said she was worried about the male dog, Rex, who was acting possessive because the female, Ella, was in heat.

"I put him down there, with a shovel on the door," Faibish said in an interview with the San Francisco Chronicle. "And I told him: `Stay down there until I come back.' Typical Nicky, he wouldn't listen to me."

Nicholas apparently found a way to open the basement door.

Despite her concerns about Rex that day, Faibish told the newspaper: "My kids got along great with (the dogs). We were never seeing any kind of violent tendencies."

Faibish found her son's body in a bedroom. He was covered in blood from several wounds, including a major head injury. No charges have been filed.

"It's Nicky's time to go," she said in the interview. "When you're born you're destined to go and this was his time."

Ella was shot to death by a police officer the day of the attack. Rex was taken to a shelter, but Faibish said she wanted him put down.
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Postby Thilindel » Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:56 pm

Yeah, I just read that too. Pit bulls are just shitty pets in the first place. Her stance on it, especially knowing her child was mauled, is really disturbing. I see her getting charged with something soon. How can you not know a dog that's growling at your child is dangerous? Too bad there isn't an IQ requirement for being a parent.
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Postby rylan » Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:57 am

Um.. yeah, lets lock the kid in the basement instead of the dog. And then the attitude about the child being killed? Wtf is wrong with that person.
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Postby Raiwen » Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:15 pm

If an animal of mine didn't get along with my child.. guess which one is leaving!

I'll sure miss that dog...
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Postby Botef » Mon Jun 13, 2005 3:15 pm

My girlfriend has a Pitbull, and its definately been quite a challenge to work with. The dog is very very possesive of it's space, which is ususally is anything within visual or audial range. We've done a lot of obidiance work and the like, but even after much of that the dog is still prone to run off after someone it deems to be violating its territory.

She never really bites or attacks people though unless we're playing with her, she usually just runs up to you and barks till one of us comes to her and calms her down. All in all I would never suggest anyone own one. While they are puppies they are pretty well behaved, but after about 8 months be prepared for a two or three year period of them behaving like two year olds and not wanting to listen before they finally start to calm down. They need a lot of attention, and will demand it of you if you try to ignore them.

Its sad this lady can't take any responsibilty for it though. It really bothers me when people put the blame on things like 'fate'. This poor kid was 12 years old...Definatly not 'his time to go' and its a shame anyone would say something like that.
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Postby Shar » Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:53 pm

This is disgusting. IMO, and it is just mo, those dogs should NOT ever EVER be allowed to be kept as pets, anywhere.

I know several people here in this town where I live that have been either attacked by or have had their pets/children attacked by pitbulls. Thankfully, I have never been personally affected by it. How sad is it that this lady has kids?! SHE should be locked up forever with her 2 dogs.
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Postby Thilindel » Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:43 pm

With that woman's logic, it's ok for her to lock her husband up with some known murderers, and if the hubby dies, it was his time anyway.
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Postby Llaaldara » Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:33 pm

rylan wrote:Um.. yeah, lets lock the kid in the basement instead of the dog. And then the attitude about the child being killed? Wtf is wrong with that person.


I kept thinking the same thing. Maybe she keeps pigs in the basement, and in the attic is where she keeps the hippo's, and the bengal man eating tiger is locked up in the back yard..
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Pit Bull Mauling

Postby Glaesa » Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:58 am

I agree with Yarash that this woman shouldn't be allowed to have either dogs or children. However, the recent upsurge in Pit Bull attacks can be directly attributed to humans. The breed was deliberately bred (by humans) to be aggressive to other dogs but not to humans. Then, certain humans from the sludgy end of the gene pool decided that it was "macho" to have a bad dog. Pits became a "fad" breed for anyone who wished to have a big, muscular dog that was encouraged to show agression to outsiders. Instead of breeding for gentleness and stability, Pits were bred for more agression. Inbreeding added to erratic behavior and now impromptu dog fighting bouts are becoming popular.

Over a number of years, I have trained and shown obedience (Great Danes) with Pits that were left in the ring with tiny Yorkies and other small breeds, totally without incident. I have seen Pits stand off rattlesnakes to protect their family. Basically, Pit bulls (of which there are several breeds, including Bulldogs and Bull Terriers) are good dogs that have been victimized by humans. Now, the dogs are paying for human abuse.
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Re: Mother explains fatal pit bull mauling

Postby Lirela » Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:01 am

Yarash wrote:"It's Nicky's time to go," she said in the interview. "When you're born you're destined to go and this was his time."


You know, I read this article to my husband yesterday, using the link Yarash provided..

They seem to have taken out this line at some point, because I had to come back to the post to read it to him.

Interesting...
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Postby Ashiwi » Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:19 pm

I have to agree with Glaesa. I would never have a pit bull, myself, and not because I'm worried a dog that I would bring up in a non-aggressive atmosphere would bite me, but because the amount of in-breeding that has gone into this particular breed has made them highly unstable with their aggressions. You could get one pit that's a perfect family dog with a cuddly demeanor and a fierce protective streak, and in the same litter could be a dog that will maul the nearest living being as soon as it feels threatened... and feels threatened every time the wind blows. I might feel more comfortable buying a pit if I bought it pedigreed with a long and well-known bloodline from a reputable breeder, but I would have to be able to research its bloodline first.

Give me a heinz 57 pound puppy any day.
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Re: Mother explains fatal pit bull mauling

Postby Thilindel » Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:26 pm

Lirela wrote:
Yarash wrote:"It's Nicky's time to go," she said in the interview. "When you're born you're destined to go and this was his time."


You know, I read this article to my husband yesterday, using the link Yarash provided..

They seem to have taken out this line at some point, because I had to come back to the post to read it to him.

Interesting...


The quote by Yarash was also on Yahoo Headlines. I still clearly remember it. I was thinking "What the hell? This woman is so damned stupid, the dogs felt smart around her so they let her live!"
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unreal

Postby Iduna » Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:11 pm

She said she was worried about the male dog, Rex, who was acting possessive < (happends to most animals, but !! ) Hello!?? theres your sign!


I was wondering myself why she didnt lock the dogs in the basement!!


Im actually in the middle of deciding if I want a pit or not...

My cousin has 7 of them! and 4 kids! Of course me and the kids have visited her often and when she visits shes brought at least the 2 adults with her. We've never had a problem. With the adults now having pups she would like to give me one or two. They are family pets, not left outside, not trained to guard the house or attack in anyway. They go everywhere with her! They're spoiled..lol

anyway Im not hesitant on deciding due to the fact that they are pits, just on the fact that i'll end up taking care of yet another Pet! ugh
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Re: unreal

Postby Botef » Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:03 pm

Iduna wrote:She said she was worried about the male dog, Rex, who was acting possessive < (happends to most animals, but !! ) Hello!?? theres your sign!


I was wondering myself why she didnt lock the dogs in the basement!!


Im actually in the middle of deciding if I want a pit or not...

My cousin has 7 of them! and 4 kids! Of course me and the kids have visited her often and when she visits shes brought at least the 2 adults with her. We've never had a problem. With the adults now having pups she would like to give me one or two. They are family pets, not left outside, not trained to guard the house or attack in anyway. They go everywhere with her! They're spoiled..lol

anyway Im not hesitant on deciding due to the fact that they are pits, just on the fact that i'll end up taking care of yet another Pet! ugh


Best advice I can give is socialize your dog as much as possible with both people and other dogs.

More than anything me and my gf's pit has 'bad' days where she refuses to listen, or when she does it lasts all of a few seconds...She's very vocal and barks at people and dogs a lot...She's not aggressive though, just easily excited and vocal...Pit bulls jump and use there hands alot which some people are not acustom to and assume is an attack.

Otherwise she's a great dog with a lot of personality...I think a lot of the publics fear is unwarrented, any of the hyper aggressive pitbulls I've seen have been owned and cared for by less than reputable people who got one simply because it was 'a mean and cool ass dog, yo'. Pitbulls are high maitenence dogs like Akitas, Huskies, etc and demand a lot of attention that is expressed through chewing, barking, scratching, digging, etc if you don't give them enough of it.

An Akita will be my next dog just as soon as I move to a place with a larger yard :)
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Postby Ambar » Sat Jun 18, 2005 4:38 pm

and so my daughter's idiot boyfriend decides to get a pit ...

one month before their baby is due

*grr*
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Postby teflor the ranger » Sat Jun 18, 2005 4:53 pm

Ambar wrote:and so my daughter's idiot boyfriend decides to get a pit ...

one month before their baby is due

*grr*


I hope it likes nuts.
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Postby Thilindel » Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:43 pm

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Postby Raiwen » Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:22 pm

The mother bent down to give the dog water while holding her baby.

These dogs are known to be very possessive - especially about food and water.

Before you all get mad at the dog, the dog just doing what's in it's nature. It's the OWNER's fault for not properly training the dog, and the MOTHER's fault for not putting her baby down - away from the animal before interacting with it.

Granted, I don't think the dog should live at this point. If you were to allow it, it would end up being even more agressive the next time. The dog's training is shot too far into hell to have any chance of retraining it to be a better dog.

The responsibility of this falls, squarely on the owner's shoulders.
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Postby Botef » Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:38 pm

Dogs are dogs but they all can be trained...People who honestly believe all Pit-Bulls and similar dogs are savage animals that are always aggressive like this are quite mistaken. They win dog shows quite often, and can be very obident and good pets if you put in the time to train them.

However Rots, Pits, Huskies, Akitas and a handful of other large dogs are very difficult to train and require a heck of a lot more effort them giving them a treat for sitting or laying down once in awhile. Just about every case of aggression I have ever seen the dog was A: Raised by dumb-asses who want their dog to be mean and aggressive or B: Raised by someone who has no concept of how to train a dog, and lets the dog get away with way to many things during the first couple years of its life when these obidience lessons are most important.

I'm personally struggling to train my fiancee's pit bull who until meeting me never had much training, and can be a handfull when other people or dogs she doesn't know are around. Really these types of dogs should be having daily obidience training from just about day 1.

In short these dog's shouldn't be owned by people who don't have time to commit on a daily basis to making sure they are trained and well socialized.
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Postby Thilindel » Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:53 pm

But other than novelty, who would want one of these Cujo's? There's a reason wild cats, wolves, etc. aren't kept as pets. Hell, who would keep a lion or tiger as a household critter? An idiot. Dogs such as these listed are known for only being loyal to ONE person typically. To each his/her own, but damn, it's very wreckless to keep one of those potential problems.
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Postby avak » Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:06 pm

I absolutely agree with you, Thilindel. Some friends and I were sitting around one night and just guessed that maybe 10% of the dogs in the US (for example) are being treated properly. I have no idea if that is even remotely accurate, but I do know that I often see dogs that just stay tied up or kenneled oh, the vast majority of their existence. All because the owner "wanted a dog" at one point or takes it hunting or for the occasional walk. IMO, the dogs that act out aggressively aren't necessarily even the worst trained...many mis-handled or abused dogs become timid...but that the mistreatment, in conjunction with aggressive predisposition, leads to problems like that story.
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Postby Botef » Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:08 pm

There great dogs if trained properly and won't act so damn agressive towards anyone in visual/audiabl range.

Problem is the majority of peopel do not know how to 'train' a dog and have issues with obidence lessons where a choke collar is used. There definatly not good first-time dogs...But if trained well, they are outstanding breeds that are well behaved, unlike undomesticated animals.

I think dogs like this are popular these days because of the entertainment/media's portrayl of them being 'badass' which has lead to a bunch of dumb idiots buying them and 'training' them to be violent and protective because it's 'cool' or something...Many of these people don't even have the proper understanding of dog training to get even a easy dog like a Dautschen or Terrier to sit, heel, etc.

I like my fiancee's dog despite it being a friggan tyrant at times. She has a lot of character and is lots of fun to play with. After 6 months of seeing her daily she is actully a lot more protective of me than my finacee (probably cause I give it a lot of attention trying to train it). I only hope that its not too late in her life to get her to a point where she can be off a leash when other people are around without me having to worry if she'll run off barking at the first person she see's.

One of my past dog instructors summed up these types of dogs (Namely Pits, Rots, Huskies, Akita's) as being in a permanant state of 'terriable two's for several years...For those of you not familiar with what that means, it means they push you to see how much they can get away with before you react and then gague your reaction. For example, reaching out to touch/take something, then stopping when you say stop but then immediatly trying it again.

I think alot of people just have a hard time punishing their dogs because they feel its cruel or something...That definatly has been my finacee's trouble with training her pit. Choke collars bother her, despite my repeated examples of how dogs will choke themselves to get at what they want, and in moderation doesn't hurt the dog...Or the oppisite, people are abusive of their dogs and beat them senseless for the stupidest of reasons.
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Postby avak » Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:38 pm

I have a question for you, Botef...or anyone else for that matter.

I adopted a 4 year old German Sheperd two and a half years ago. He was a farm dog before I met him (well, I guess he still is) and was treated pretty poorly. When we got him we couldn't touch his ears or paws and he wouldn't go inside any buildings. He was timid unless you really pushed him (like trying to take his collar off) and then he would snap a little, but not bite.

So, we worked with him a lot. Now, he's pretty much the coolest dog I know. He still has some weird ideosyncrasies, but as a dog out in the country he's great.

So, my question is: I've heard that german sheperds can get aggressive when they get older. Is that true and what can you do to prevent it? Seems like my pup could be one to get aggressive. Even though he isn't at all now.
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Postby Botef » Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:08 pm

I'm not much of a dog expert, my experience stems mostly from standard training (Sit, Heal, Lay Down, Stay, etc). I'll have to ask a few friends who would have a better understanding to give a good anwser.

I can say though that German Shepherd males tend to be friendly with other dogs so long as it is a younger male dog, or a quiet and smaller male dog or a female. One of the best ways to help a dog get over this is to socialize them as often as possible with other dogs and people, although this is really best done very early on while they are still puppies.

Since your dog had a previous owner it's hard to say how he'll behave in old age. German Shepherds are work dogs, and love to be worked. My suggestion would probably just be to give your dog a lot of attention and exercise, particularly things like running and playing fetch...You might have noticed that your dog likes to pull while your walking it on a leash and doesn't like to heal (unless it was trained to do so). A lot of times, taking a dog like this for a walk is rather pointless as it doesn't do much to exercise them.

I'll ask some friends of mine about the snapping and stuff and see what they say.
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Postby Yasden » Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:30 pm

Read the story again. It was her grandparents' dog, not hers.

I don't get how she's responsible for any of this.
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Postby Shiallia » Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:32 pm

One thing that might be a factor in the aggressive tendencies of older shepherds is the tendency for the breed to develop painful bone conditions such as hip displasia. I once had a shepherd who snapped if you got too near because he was afraid that you would knock him off balance just by petting him, thereby making him hurt himself while trying to retain his footing. Shrug. It is something to consider.
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Postby Raiwen » Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:24 am

Yasden, she was holding her baby while giving the dog water.

You don't really do that, just like you don't let your kid pull a dog or cat's tail. Food and water is a sacred thing to many animals, and unless they have been trained from cubs to allow people to interfere with their food, they will be protective.

How far will they become protective? A friend of mine's dog would growl and snap, but he was a little dog. Another dog I owned would let you remove and replace her food, but she was trained from an early age to allow this type of behavor.

A dog that percieves itself to be "higher" in the social order than you (which is likely if you're a child), will be very aggressive unless it was trained not to be.

From the article, this was not an isolated incident. The dog had previously killed a neighbor's smaller dog - yet they neighor did not file charges. The mother should not have let her baby get so close to the dog while handling it's food.
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Postby Thilindel » Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:11 am

Why is a family pet worth keeping if you actually have to fear it? These type dogs aren't cool, they're not a trend, yet people still buy/adopt them because whatever. Like when 101 Dalmations was released, the local pound was upset because people started adopting and buying dalmations like mad. They didn't realize dalmations take a LOT of care and are very high energy. These dogs were being dumped and abandoned. But what in the WORLD is one thinking buying a breed of dog known for being vicious (pits/rotweilers, etc.)? All the training in the world won't take the killer instinct out of that mutt.
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Postby Kifle » Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:56 am

avak wrote:I have a question for you, Botef...or anyone else for that matter.

I adopted a 4 year old German Sheperd two and a half years ago. He was a farm dog before I met him (well, I guess he still is) and was treated pretty poorly. When we got him we couldn't touch his ears or paws and he wouldn't go inside any buildings. He was timid unless you really pushed him (like trying to take his collar off) and then he would snap a little, but not bite.

So, we worked with him a lot. Now, he's pretty much the coolest dog I know. He still has some weird ideosyncrasies, but as a dog out in the country he's great.

So, my question is: I've heard that german sheperds can get aggressive when they get older. Is that true and what can you do to prevent it? Seems like my pup could be one to get aggressive. Even though he isn't at all now.


About the ears and the paws thing... I'm not sure how well this related to German Shepards, but huskies see that as a sign of dominance. That could very well explain why he didn't want anybody touching them -- especially since he didn't know you. But this may just be a pack dog thing, so I'm not too sure.
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Postby Sundara » Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:55 pm

This topic caught my eye because my family and I own a couple of full bred pits. They are both about over a year old so we had them since pups.

Doesn’t matter what pet anyone owns, if the owner(s) are negligent and irresponsible in their own household, then unfortunate ramifications will take place, no doubt about that.

With that sad, initially it was just to keep the bad intruders away, which was suggested by one of our local officers. I’ll be darned! A cop? He even suggested pit bulls? Is he insane? Everyone knows the aggressive nature of that type of animal and their bad reputation! He also suggested putting up signs, ‘Beware of Pit Bulls’ and getting them registered, including to make sure they have all their proper rabies/vaccine shots, etc. Given the proper care and love, they grow up to be fine animals. And no, we don’t live in a bad area at all, good neighborhood in fact, but I will spare the personal details.

Let me tell you, no training in the world is going to help if you don’t give your pets the love and attention they need. You need to spend time with them, and I don’t mean just to ‘train’ them, but to love them. We are affectionate loving people, so our pets, are lovable, friendly, sociable dogs, cats, birds, whatever, we’ve had them all.

They don’t even bite; they are pretty timid dogs. We’ve never witnessed any type of vicious behavior from them and we have both female and male pits. We have kids that like to run around and play with the dogs in the backyard or play with their puppies, which are in the process of being sold, that’s the part that worries the hell out of me, I don’t know what kind of owners will buy them, I hope they are good family people because these are good family puppies that deserve a good loving home.

The 2-3 year old toddlers will climb on the bigger pits and ride as if they are ponies or something (the dogs let them) and you know how little kids can be, they like to pull on hide, tail, etc., of course, we make sure they don’t do that, but when it happens out of nowhere, not even a growl comes out from these pits. They just pant with their tongues hanging out from all the playfulness.

As far as food and water goes, they share; they aren’t even possessive over that and anyone can go out there to give them food and water without worries. Their puppies are even eating their food now, and if one of them starts to choke, guess what the father pit does? He taps the pup with his paw so he/she doesn’t choke! Then licks them to make sure they are okay. He’s very watchful over his pups; takes better care of them than the mother, really. And they say that male pits shouldn’t be around the mother and their pups because they get viciously aggressive, territorial, jealous, etc., and in some cases that is very true, but not in this case. When the mother was going thru labor, the father would run around barking loudly to get help from someone in the middle of the night. I don’t think we’ll have another pair of dogs like these.

These dogs are pretty simply amazing. Whatever negative/fears thoughts we had prior to owning one, it vanished the day we raised our first pit pup. Our dogs, believe it or not, are good, humble, family dogs, and we dearly love and trust them. They will be spaded/neutered soon because we don’t want to go thru another litter having to get rid of them. We got attached to these beautiful puppies and it’s tough to let them go.

No more intruder(s) either! Who is going to come close to the fence when they hear a big WOOF! Little do they know how harmless they really are? :) They are friendly with everyone, not just family. However, should the day ever come and they start to get snappy and aggressive, or God forbid, bite, you better believe they will be out the door.

The truth is, it really does depend on the owner(s) how the pets will behave. Love and attention is the key to good healthy and stable dogs, oh and owners shouldn’t chain/tie them to a post or keep them in a strict confined area, frustration will only build and cause the dog to get vicious as time goes by with negligence. They need to roam around in a big back yard for some freedom and again, love and attention is what they need/want. This goes for any type of dogs.

P.S. Sorry about the long post, but to share experiences about these types of animals, it cannot be done in one single sentence or one small paragraph. If there are close minded readers, which obviously there are! :) I hope what I shared here brings a different light of understanding and keep an open mind. I use to have misconseptions about pit bulls and yes, even shuddered at the thought of owning one, until I actually experienced it myself raising them. Sorry about the long P.S., too!

Have a good day! :)

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Postby moritheil » Sat Aug 06, 2005 3:35 am

I think the general idea is that a blatantly indifferent mother must SOMEHOW be responsible for the premature death of her child - if not directly, then indirectly.
Yotus group-says 'special quest if you type hi dragon'
Shevarash OOC: 'I feature only the finest mammary glands.'
Silena group-says 'he was so fat and juicy..couldnt resist'

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