Evils/Neutrals Tiamat - Saturday, December 10th...11AM PST!

Archived discussion from Toril-2.
Yasden
Sojourner
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Lake Stevens, WA, USA

Evils/Neutrals Tiamat - Saturday, December 10th...11AM PST!

Postby Yasden » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:33 am

Ok, after looking at the votes on the other thread, it was a pretty even tie for any of the three Saturday dates. However, for my own personal sanity, I decided to lead it the 10th, 11 AM PST (that's 2 PM EST for you math retards).

Originally, there was a conflict between a possible run by Dexil/Zukal on the 17th, and he agreed to yield to my run. However, I don't want to put him or his association out, so I'm going to lead it the weekend before.

The exact time is SUBJECT TO CHANGE. With my job, things come up, and I might end up working later than usual or I might end up having a REALLY easy Saturday. The last date I will change the time will be THIS Saturday, 12/03. So keep an eye on the topic until then.

Now, for group composition:

6 - tanks (1 being myself - Targsk) I might take one or two anti-paladins in this mix.
2 - clerics
4 - shamans (possibly 5)
2 - bards/battlechanters (only 1 if a 5th shaman is available)
2 - enchanters
2 - illusionists
1 - elementalist
1 - druid
2 - necro (or necro/lich)
4 - melee damage (rogue/dire). This is a very malleable one, and might end up absorbing most of the remaining for slots for illithids and additional nuking.
4 - psionicists/extra druid/extra elementalist/token invoker - these might be (and most probably will be) absorbed in favor of melee. Sorry...but MR has proven its weakness against the might of the rogue.


IF YOU WANT TO SIGN UP:

* 1. Send me a private message here. I won't pay much attention to the spam and smartass remarks in the thread.
* 2. MMAIL one of my characters. Targsk, Aristan, or Danahg. I'll check the mmails daily.

If you try to use tells, I'll just have you mmail me the details.

INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING:

* 1. ALL 46+ Evilrace/Neutral characters. 50th is preferred, but isn't the deciding factor.
* 2. The number of times you have been to Tiamat this WIPE. This wipe means Sojourn3 and Toril2 combined.
* 3. The number of items you have WON (not traded for/given/stolen), and the item name, and the character you won it with...along with the group you won it in (1st or 2nd goodie run, 1st or 2nd evil run, NEW tia run).
* 4. Any special circumstances such as having to show up a few minutes late, having to run an errand at a particular time that day, whatever...I'd like to know in advance and base my decisions on characters on that.

PLEASE BE HONEST! I'm going to gather some information as to who was on what Tia run for all the runs this wipe, and find out who won what. If I find out you're lying or intentionally withholding information, I reserve the right to make adjustments to your bid as I see fit, including and up to removing it. I'm sure my bid system will be extremely fair to everyone involved, and I'd like to make it a trend for the future Tiamat leaders.

*Bid system and other relative information to be posted soon.*

Thanks for your time and interest, and I look forward to hearing from lots of people really soon!

-Deathmagnet
Support Your Addiction! Vote for TorilMUD Today!

Top Mud Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/cgi-bin/topmuds/rankem.cgi?id=shev

Why Nerox is jealous of me:

Nerox tells you 'man this thing is kicking my ass and i have blisters!'
Nerox tells you 'ok attempting it again put tape on my fingers for easier sliding'
malakwee
Sojourner
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 2:25 pm

Postby malakwee » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:39 am

would like to join ya for that run tks
Gizep
Sojourner
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:34 pm
Location: Menzoberranzan
Contact:

Postby Gizep » Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:49 pm

I'll spam ya as requested in your thread, a mmail and pm here ya old ass troll, but you prolly don't want my ass im 0/1 on tiamat and that was in 1999 haha.
As long as we live in this world we are bound to encounter problems. If, at such times, we lose hope and become discouraged, we diminish our ability to face difficulties. If, on the other hand, we remember that it is not just ourselves but everyone who has to undergo suffering, this more realistic perspective will increase our determination and capacity to overcome troubles.
-- The Dali Lama
Nekelet
Sojourner
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:54 pm

Postby Nekelet » Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:57 pm

Want a physical, references, and a credit check too? :P

Will "apply" in a couple days IF I can clear it with RL, although I'll of course defer to a drow/snake lich if they're interested.

-Nek.
Yasden
Sojourner
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Lake Stevens, WA, USA

Postby Yasden » Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:11 pm

FINAL CONFIGURATION:

Tanks:

Targsk (Warrior)
Krolba (Warrior)
Ruagh (Warrior)
Sakarat (Anti-Paladin)
Gura (Warrior)
Ruxur (Warrior - Pending)
Hust (Warrior - Possible Backup)

Melee:

Teba (Rogue)
Silena (Rogue)
Asda (Rogue)
Elusia (Rogue)
Nilan (Rogue)
Risor (Rogue)
Nulatudas (Rogue)
Krenalazmagg (Rogue)
Bukurabak (Rogue - Possible Backup)

Non-Melee Damage:

Sesexe (Invoker)
Muxxissinix (Psionicist)
Pedur (Druid)
Ided (Lich)
Botef (Necro)
Arilin (Lich)

Healing:

Kobud (Shaman)
Bodug (Shaman)
Rarid (Shaman)
Sservis (Cleric)
Imis (Cleric)
Teguh (Battlechanter)

Prep:

Dexil (Elementalist)
Irane (Enchanter)
Teshidee (Enchanter)

I'm seriously in need of at least 1 illusionist, all other slots are full at this time. I'm going to be rotating sitting duties between the liches so they both get some play time.

The group will be leaving for Ribcage/Avernus as soon as possible from the posted time. I expect everyone to be in the group and ready at least 10 minutes prior to leaving. We will be starting off as two groups then merging to one as soon as we enter the Tiamat zone. I will be leading one group, the other leader TBA. Just in case I'm running a few minutes late, I will have another person holding my group temporarily until I get home from work.

Looking forward to seeing all of you there!
Last edited by Yasden on Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:03 pm, edited 11 times in total.
Support Your Addiction! Vote for TorilMUD Today!



Top Mud Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/cgi-bin/topmuds/rankem.cgi?id=shev



Why Nerox is jealous of me:



Nerox tells you 'man this thing is kicking my ass and i have blisters!'

Nerox tells you 'ok attempting it again put tape on my fingers for easier sliding'
Elet
Sojourner
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Elet » Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:57 am

well i can slot in either elet 50 cleric or teguh 50 battlechanter.

only if i know exact date so i can set my self up
Yasden
Sojourner
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Lake Stevens, WA, USA

Postby Yasden » Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:02 am

*bump*
Support Your Addiction! Vote for TorilMUD Today!



Top Mud Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/cgi-bin/topmuds/rankem.cgi?id=shev



Why Nerox is jealous of me:



Nerox tells you 'man this thing is kicking my ass and i have blisters!'

Nerox tells you 'ok attempting it again put tape on my fingers for easier sliding'
Yasden
Sojourner
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Lake Stevens, WA, USA

Postby Yasden » Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:29 pm

Update: Need another shaman and warrior as one of each had to withdraw due to RL this Saturday. Any takers?
Last edited by Yasden on Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Support Your Addiction! Vote for TorilMUD Today!



Top Mud Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/cgi-bin/topmuds/rankem.cgi?id=shev



Why Nerox is jealous of me:



Nerox tells you 'man this thing is kicking my ass and i have blisters!'

Nerox tells you 'ok attempting it again put tape on my fingers for easier sliding'
Dalar
Sojourner
Posts: 4905
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Dalar » Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:32 pm

o rly
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Ambar
Sojourner
Posts: 2872
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Our House in Va.
Contact:

Postby Ambar » Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:02 am

wish I didnt work on saturdays Ryan :( I'm really sorry hun ... I'd love to join you if I could as Ambar, it'd be just like old times, eh?

*hug* and hope for the best for you

-Jen
"When a child is born, so is a grandmother."

-Italian Proverb
moritheil
Sojourner
Posts: 4845
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2001 6:01 am

Postby moritheil » Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:07 am

Have fun.
Yotus group-says 'special quest if you type hi dragon'
Shevarash OOC: 'I feature only the finest mammary glands.'
Silena group-says 'he was so fat and juicy..couldnt resist'
Yasden
Sojourner
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Lake Stevens, WA, USA

Postby Yasden » Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:50 am

POINT SYSTEM

Disclaimer: I claim no responsibility or liability for any misinterpretations of this system or any subsequent wins/losses/point alterations. If you have any questions, ask BEFORE you bid, not after.

After some careful consideration for others and taking feedback into account, I decided to not base the eq bidding on any prior Tiamat runs or wins. Also, there will not be any bid restrictions, however I will respectfully request that you not bid on an item if it's explicitly for trading purposes only.

Having said that, here's how the system will work:

100 points = Complete Tiamat run
50 points = Roughly 1/2 of a run completed
25 points = 4 hours or less spent at a run

For those who are there almost a full run, I will deduct 5 points for every hour missed either from being late, afk, or having to leave in the last 2 hours. The points WILL be cumulative and carried over through runs.

Here's how the bidding system itself will work:

1st round = 100 points minimum, points dropped to 0 (negative if <100)
2nd round = 50 points
3rd round = 25 points

I will be dicing based on the number of bidders, and their combined total points. For example, if I have 6 bids on an item, 4 of the people have 100 points, 1 has 85, and the other has only 25, I will be dicing "1 510".

However, at your discretion/risk, you may opt to use however many points you wish on an item, for any round. For example, if you wish to only bid 20 points on a 1st round item, that is your perogative, and I claim no responsbility for your probable loss. However, you can also dump your entire cumulative points on an item for any round. The point usage works both ways.

You can bid, so long as you have at least 1 point in the positive range.

Also, in the spirit of the evil old school "hand down" method, I am allowing the option of the bid winners to hand over the item they upgraded, or something of high level use that I can either dice in the subsequent rounds or save for a future run. I will reward back 25% of your points lost on the item you won if you do this. The maximums per round are 25 points for first, 10 for second, and 5 for third. Whether or not I deem the item acceptable is MY call and MY call only. If you want to bribe me with something else instead that will possible garner a bid, then by all means.

Last, but not least, I am reserving the option to claim an item for every fifth (5th) run I lead. I may or may not take this option, but if I do, I will compensate the eq pot as best as I can. I will try to state which item I will be claiming at the beginning of the run, but due to the somewhat randomness of items, this may or may not happen.

Having said that, I wish all of you the best of luck in your bids, and I hope this system turns out to be fair and acceptable to all!

-Deathmagnet
Last edited by Yasden on Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Support Your Addiction! Vote for TorilMUD Today!



Top Mud Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/cgi-bin/topmuds/rankem.cgi?id=shev



Why Nerox is jealous of me:



Nerox tells you 'man this thing is kicking my ass and i have blisters!'

Nerox tells you 'ok attempting it again put tape on my fingers for easier sliding'
Thrand
Sojourner
Posts: 274
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 6:01 am

questions

Postby Thrand » Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:28 pm

a. so if i am there the whole time and i decide to bid on a 1st
round item and bid 100, and lose, i cannot then bid on any other round ?

b. so if i am there the whole time and i bid on a 1st round item for 100 pts
and i lose, and i go the next time you lead i start off with 0 points ?

b. so if i am there the whole time and dont bid on 1st round item
can i bid 50 on 2 separate items ? on 4 separate items in the 3rd round?

depending on your responces i got some more questsions

Nulatudas
Yasden
Sojourner
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Lake Stevens, WA, USA

Postby Yasden » Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:54 pm

a. Bidding works as any other zone. If you lose, you can bid 2nd or 3rd round.

b. Correct, you will have 0 points.

c. No. You can only bid on 1 item. If you lose, then you can bid again the next round, and so forth and so on.
Support Your Addiction! Vote for TorilMUD Today!



Top Mud Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/cgi-bin/topmuds/rankem.cgi?id=shev



Why Nerox is jealous of me:



Nerox tells you 'man this thing is kicking my ass and i have blisters!'

Nerox tells you 'ok attempting it again put tape on my fingers for easier sliding'
Nilan
Sojourner
Posts: 688
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Nilan » Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:37 pm

Had alot of fun Targsky

Thank you much for leading it.

Great lead bro, and fun group!

Nilan
aka
Stabby
Disoputlip
Sojourner
Posts: 956
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2002 6:01 am
Location: Copenhagen

Postby Disoputlip » Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:10 pm

Not sure if you want any comments about the bidding, because it has already been executed. But here is my oppinion.

Handdown is not attactive enough. With the current system noone would handdown a really nice item. Not sure about how to fix this. But if someone handed down e.g. a diamond ring then the person should almost just get the tia item, whereas someone handing down a muspel signet should gain less, and one handing down an amethyst should gain almost no extra benefit.

Those that win in the 1st round is going to win more in the long run. This is pure math. The way to fix this is that when you win then more than 100 points should be deducted, so you go into minus.
muxxissinix
Sojourner
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 2:02 am

Postby muxxissinix » Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:30 pm

I had a lot of fun again, thanks Targsk for the nice leading.


I want apologize with the hoomans I pised off, can't wait for use battletrance again with you guys :P (joke).

note: give a real target damage skill to illithids most of big fights are in runs and need target just one mob, using projectforce is 2 rounds lag and for beeing meele damage, why this skill still can be blocked 100% using the same save that mindblast or ultrablast use which are mind damage? Can you look into saves against psi damage skills plz, or update the help on this skills because the skills don't do what they suposed to do.
Pril
Sojourner
Posts: 1834
Joined: Sat May 11, 2002 5:01 am

Postby Pril » Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:10 pm

Great Lead ryan, major kudos.
Jhorr
Sojourner
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Jhorr » Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:17 am

Great fun, indeed.

My only suggestion regarding the bidding system is that if someone loses their bid and walks away with nothing (e.g., me) they keep their 100 points to use on the next run.

That's all!
Pril
Sojourner
Posts: 1834
Joined: Sat May 11, 2002 5:01 am

Postby Pril » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:03 am

Jhorr wrote:Great fun, indeed.

My only suggestion regarding the bidding system is that if someone loses their bid and walks away with nothing (e.g., me) they keep their 100 points to use on the next run.

That's all!


That's already the case Jhrr he just mistyped his reply.
Yasden
Sojourner
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Lake Stevens, WA, USA

Postby Yasden » Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:40 am

Here's the current point standings:

Aluvon - 0
Asda - 10
Bodug - 0
Bukurabak - 100
Dexil - 0
Disoputlip - 50
Elet - 100
Elusia - 75
Gura - 100
Imis - 50
Klandal - 50
Kobud - 0
Krenalazmagg - 0
Krolba - 50
Kurrus - 50
Lahgen - 0
Lintral - 0
Malat - 100
Muxxissinix - 100
Nilan - 0
Nonox - 50
Nulatudas - 100
Pedur - 0
Rarid - 100
Risor - 100
Rurga - 50
Santren - 50
Sesexe - 100
Targsk - 100
Teba - 50
Teshidee - (-50)
Toraza - 100
Zogur - (-75)
Support Your Addiction! Vote for TorilMUD Today!



Top Mud Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/cgi-bin/topmuds/rankem.cgi?id=shev



Why Nerox is jealous of me:



Nerox tells you 'man this thing is kicking my ass and i have blisters!'

Nerox tells you 'ok attempting it again put tape on my fingers for easier sliding'
Nekelet
Sojourner
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:54 pm

Postby Nekelet » Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:26 pm

First, T, let me say that I think bid systems like this can be a very fair way in the long run to help ensure that devoted followers get something in the end... So don't take this as a bish session.

In zones w/ high time commitment, I'd sure like leaders to commit to a standard system.

PlayerX - 1 100%run behind S. - Lost all rounds
PlayerY - 1 100%run behind T. - Lost all rounds

Players X&Y follow T in the future for full run.
Y has twice the bid of X.

Unfair? Maybe, maybe not.
Huge irritation factor for X? Definitely.

Unfortunately - coordinating a shared bid tracking system would require extra clerical work on the part of the leaders, or a huge (unreasonable?) amount of faith placed in peoples "I went with Z on Date"
Yasden
Sojourner
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Lake Stevens, WA, USA

Postby Yasden » Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:43 pm

That's why I couldn't simply take Sarell's run into account for points, the system wasn't established then. However, if he wants to coordinate with me and we keep a universal system in play for people so that people who do Tiamat every single run will have the greatest chance of winning, I'm all for that.

My run on Saturday wasn't so much an issue of going for the equipment, but because it was the one major goal I'd never accomplished in my mudding career. Also, I wanted to prove to the doubters that an evils/neutrals Tiamat run could be completed. However, I don't see a whole lot of these happening, simply because of the playerbase's tendency to play goodraces.

That's not to say that I won't lead Tiamat as Targsk again...in fact I'd like to do it again next month...maybe the first Saturday, who knows. :)
Support Your Addiction! Vote for TorilMUD Today!



Top Mud Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/cgi-bin/topmuds/rankem.cgi?id=shev



Why Nerox is jealous of me:



Nerox tells you 'man this thing is kicking my ass and i have blisters!'

Nerox tells you 'ok attempting it again put tape on my fingers for easier sliding'
Llaaldara
Sojourner
Posts: 998
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Dobluth Kyor

Postby Llaaldara » Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:53 pm

My Tiamat experience with the dicing reminded me of a thread started not too long ago on here, where a couple posters went thru a similar experience. I'm wondering just how rightful it is to allow people who are not there for the ENTIRE experience to receive 1st round bids. Now I know how a lot of you are thinking. You're thinking I'm mad cuz I lost to someone who showed up late, and then left early, right? Well that was kinda annoying but..

No.

See, I have 100 points now, cuz I didn't win anything at all. In fact I should have 150 since Targsk forgot to include me in my 50 point 2nd round bid, and instead of having him re-dice it, I simply said to allow the results to stand. (Whoever won owes me BIG TIME for that) Yes I know, me being nice again. I apologize for that too I guess. Anyways, on with the show..

So I have these 100 bid points. I can show up for the next Tiamat for 1 hour or less, and I can still receive a 1st round shot with 100 points at the loot. How fair is that? (Stop. Read what I just said again, and THINK about it.)




---Pause for a Moment of Thought---




Now, why should I be allowed a first round pick at something when I wasn't there for the entire duration of the zone? Shouldn't there be a significant reward for someone who clears their entire schedule and gives you an entire day of their time? But that's how we always do it on Toril, isn't it? And to Hell with it being any other way, right?

Is that how it's always going to be? Is this how it should be? So before you answer me, and even think about blasting me, consider this: What if I win something first round on your 3rd or 4th Tiamat run, when each time I only came for 1 hour each previous run.. just transferring my points from run to run. (And remember, it’s now being considered to combine points from each leader. Maybe I could just carry those points on and on..)

How upset at this system and me will you be then? I know by that time I'd be screaming ****king mad. Don’t try and pretend you wouldn’t be either. You’d want to kill someone at that point.


So I suggest this to Targsk, Sarell, and any other future leaders of Tiamat (or other longer harder zones): Abstain anyone from 1st round bids that wasn't there for the entire duration of the zone, give GOOD REASON to show up on time, and justified RESPECT to those players who went out of their way to support YOU Mr. Leader and YOUR run by giving up an equal amount of time from themselves, and help prevent the bad feelings that permeate most EQ dicing from longer zones.

Sure there are technical, and RL issues that can pop up. So give everyone 1 strike. You loose link for an hour: Strike. You afk without notice when you are integral to the group: Strike. Etc.

If I’m not there for the entire Tiamat run I’m part of next, I don’t care how many points I have transferred over, I shouldn’t get a 1st round bid. That goes for anyone else who isn’t there for the whole thing. I don’t care if you have 50 points or 500.

It’s really that simple.
Tasan
Sojourner
Posts: 1710
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Fridley, Mn USA
Contact:

Postby Tasan » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:22 am

The system was posted, if you don't like it don't come?

I was the one who "benefitted" from your disclusion from the dicing. I wasn't asked if I minded redice or anything like that, so I don't really understand how I "OWE YOU BIG". I would gladly have had it rediced, but it wasn't my decision. Also in the future, you might want to BE HEARD when yer not included instead of using an ambiguous gsay.

Now you can complain that someone who wasn't there for all 14-16 hours doesn't deserve a first round item all you want, it isn't going to make a differance either way. If you tell 30 people that they have to spend 15 hours at something to even get a shot at first round, you are going to lose half the people who want to do it in the first place. The scenario of someone showing up for an hour and leaving etc. isn't even remotely possible since no leader wants 1 hour of help from someone. It seems fairly obvious that if you aren't able to spend a decent amount of time helping, then you just aren't going to get much if any bid at all.

The run this weekend probably WOULD NOT HAVE EVEN HAPPENED if people couldn't chip in smaller amounts of time. So 20+ people get to sit on their hands and get 0 or someone gets a shot at an item? Hmmm...

It's been said before time and again as well, some classes do more work while others can maybe not work so hard, is that fair? Should we only allow those classes that work a little to bid 2nd round? Should we dock people for not having all prots because it costs people time & energy?

The point is, you are seriously overreacting. I know Sarell and Yasden are both intelligent enough to decide that if someone wasn't available for a good portion of the zone, they shouldn't expect a good bid.

And here here for those who give up their time and energy and really don't EXPECT something in return when there are plenty of other people there doing the same.

The only way I'd support the previous post at all is in considering a better overall point system based on the number of hours in the run and the amount of time the player spent there, 4 hours = 40, 14 hours = 140 seems better than straight 25/50/100.
Danahg tells you 'yeah, luckily i kept most of it in my mouth and nasal membranes, ugh'

Dlur group-says 'I have a dead horse that I'm dragging down the shaft with my 4 corpses. Anyone want to help me beat it?'

Calladuran: There are other games to play if you want to play with yourself.
Yasden
Sojourner
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Lake Stevens, WA, USA

Postby Yasden » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:59 am

If you notice the points, Zogur and Teshidee are both in the negatives from winning 1st round bids. That means under this system, they'd have to go at least 3/4 trip and 1/2 trip, respectively, just in order to have 0 points. I stated in the original decree of the system that you have to have at least *1* point in order to bid on anything, so both of them would realistically have to be there for the entire thing.

I don't see how it is fair for someone who donates 6-7 hours of their time to have to wait for the 2nd round leftovers to bid. That's a long time to spend in a zone, half-done or not. As the system progresses and points accumulate on more active players, you'll start seeing the eq spread coming out nicely. The first 1-3 runs under this system are probably not going to be very indicative of that.

However, I'd like to point out that Toraza has agreed to use this system for his run next month, and he will be using the standing points. I've contacted Sarell via mmail, and am awaiting his reply to see if he wants to do the same for this weekend. The Access database I created would have to entail some clerical work and e-mail exchanging between leaders, but I'm more than willing to accept the brunt of that responsibility, as it is my system.

I'm really sorry to everyone I missed in the 2nd round bidding sequence. There were three people that I either missed their bid, or didn't get a chance due to casting resses. I still have 3 items left unclaimed that I was going to use for the next run's pot. Look me up if you want one of them. They are:

Lathander's disc
green slime vial (10 app lvl 55 slow)
apparently empty vial (3 app lvl 50 instant death)

Llaaldara, Risor (whom I didn't forget, but he gave his win to Rurga, who I did forget), and Santren...find me in-game if you want one of these.

-Deathmagnet
Support Your Addiction! Vote for TorilMUD Today!



Top Mud Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/cgi-bin/topmuds/rankem.cgi?id=shev



Why Nerox is jealous of me:



Nerox tells you 'man this thing is kicking my ass and i have blisters!'

Nerox tells you 'ok attempting it again put tape on my fingers for easier sliding'
malakwee
Sojourner
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 2:25 pm

Postby malakwee » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:44 am

First and foremost, it was the greatest experience ever for me! Now i can brag to all those noobs how Tiamat licked Kobud to death!! haha jk

Anyway... thanks to Targsk for allowing my noob enchanter to come along... It was great fun... i seldom had the chance to be included in any major zones and now i have had my experience enchanting in the hardest zone ever... it was an honor to be included.

Winning or not winning is part of the game... yeah am kinda pissed but hey, it is a game... some win some doesnt... if you persevere i bet you will get that great AC30+kazillion+kazillion proc relocate perma haste pff pfc pfa body armor someday...

hehe... thanks again and can always count me in to support ya future runs. :P

Malakwee @ Malat @ Sakarat the Nooblet
Jhorr
Sojourner
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Jhorr » Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:43 am

I think it's worth having a standard bid system for this zone.

I see Llaaldara's point of showing up at the last minute and spending points. One idea around this is to require a minimum amount of time spent in the zone to be able to spend saved up points. If someone shows up toward the end, maybe they should just be able to spend their earned points for that trip only.
muxxissinix
Sojourner
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 2:02 am

Postby muxxissinix » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:45 am

Points, I think you should make more difference in ppl who stay all the trip and the ppl who don't. At least you want ppl leaving your group in the future, having a bid and leaving before the hardest part of zone.

Suggestion : - ppl who don't stay in the second half of zone can't bid in first round.
- 10 points for the first 50%
- 50 point for the first 75% (without the 2 last fights)
- 50 point for the last 25% (2 last fights)

Make this fair for the ppl who stay whole zone.
Elet
Sojourner
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Elet » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:54 am

muxxissinix wrote:Points, I think you should make more difference in ppl who stay all the trip and the ppl who don't. At least you want ppl leaving your group in the future, having a bid and leaving before the hardest part of zone.

Suggestion : - ppl who don't stay in the second half of zone can't bid in first round.
- 10 points for the first 50%
- 50 point for the first 75% (without the 2 last fights)
- 50 point for the last 25% (2 last fights)

Make this fair for the ppl who stay whole zone.


agree.why?
because after what ive saw. i would like to stay on every trip where i can grab 25 point and leave go to sleep wake up and bid. since i lost i can accumulate my point till i got 100 :)

just my 2 cents
ssar
Sojourner
Posts: 1446
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Contact:

Postby ssar » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:09 am

muxxissinix wrote:Points, I think you should make more difference in ppl who stay all the trip and the ppl who don't. At least you want ppl leaving your group in the future, having a bid and leaving before the hardest part of zone.

Suggestion : - ppl who don't stay in the second half of zone can't bid in first round.
- 10 points for the first 50%
- 50 point for the first 75% (without the 2 last fights)
- 50 point for the last 25% (2 last fights)

Make this fair for the ppl who stay whole zone.


I like this idea, and like the intent of it.
Improved rules for a points system to really minimize the possibily of anyone winning a 1st round item after staying in the hunt for an hour or 2, and more increasing the chances for winning 1st round for those that stay the entire hunt, seems a popular idea.
Especially if leaders are going to embrace this system and previous points from other leads.
Lahgen
Sojourner
Posts: 542
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:58 am

Postby Lahgen » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:56 pm

I can understand why some want first round bids to go only to those who were there the whole time, and in a perfect world, I'd agree. But is it really practical, with a pbase of less than 100 at a time? But, unless the Dragon Sword loads, I don't see anyone dying over Tia gear. :p

As for myself, if in future runs I have to leave early, I would forfeit my bid, simply because a tia item would not be be as great to me due to not staying the course.

Though as far as bad feelings about dicing goes...remember, after so many hours of straight, high intensity mudding, you start to think oddly.

You led well, Tarsgk.
Kesena OOC: 'i wish my daddy bought me power tools'
Dorgh group-says 'damn, even with Cofen helping Mori, they STILL can't kill someone
Hekanut says 'I know level doesn't matter much, but most won't take seriously if a level 2 claims to be the best thing before, during, and after sliced bread.'

Rather than seeing "subpar race/class," see "challenge."
muxxissinix
Sojourner
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 2:02 am

Postby muxxissinix » Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:50 pm

Lahgen just reafirmed my point, if ppl leave in middle of zone after 5-7 hours (with this low pbase), what will happen if group have to abort ?
Jhorr
Sojourner
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Jhorr » Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:55 pm

In Tiamat, it's not clear what EQ loads until the end. So, how would someone who left early know what to bid on?

Perhaps the following choice should be available to those who leave early: (1) keep your points earned and don't bid, or (2) spend your points on a non-first round bid of the leader's discretion.
Yasden
Sojourner
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Lake Stevens, WA, USA

Postby Yasden » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:21 pm

Moving this discussion to the initial bidding system thread.

http://www.torilmud.dyndns.org/phpBB2/v ... hp?t=17415

Please don't discuss here. The run is said and done! :P
Support Your Addiction! Vote for TorilMUD Today!



Top Mud Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/cgi-bin/topmuds/rankem.cgi?id=shev



Why Nerox is jealous of me:



Nerox tells you 'man this thing is kicking my ass and i have blisters!'

Nerox tells you 'ok attempting it again put tape on my fingers for easier sliding'
Llaaldara
Sojourner
Posts: 998
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Dobluth Kyor

Postby Llaaldara » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:44 pm

Tasan wrote:The system was posted, if you don't like it don't come?

I was the one who "benefitted" from your disclusion from the dicing. I wasn't asked if I minded redice or anything like that, so I don't really understand how I "OWE YOU BIG". I would gladly have had it rediced, but it wasn't my decision. Also in the future, you might want to BE HEARD when yer not included instead of using an ambiguous gsay.

Now you can complain that someone who wasn't there for all 14-16 hours doesn't deserve a first round item all you want, it isn't going to make a differance either way. If you tell 30 people that they have to spend 15 hours at something to even get a shot at first round, you are going to lose half the people who want to do it in the first place. The scenario of someone showing up for an hour and leaving etc. isn't even remotely possible since no leader wants 1 hour of help from someone. It seems fairly obvious that if you aren't able to spend a decent amount of time helping, then you just aren't going to get much if any bid at all.

The run this weekend probably WOULD NOT HAVE EVEN HAPPENED if people couldn't chip in smaller amounts of time. So 20+ people get to sit on their hands and get 0 or someone gets a shot at an item? Hmmm...

It's been said before time and again as well, some classes do more work while others can maybe not work so hard, is that fair? Should we only allow those classes that work a little to bid 2nd round? Should we dock people for not having all prots because it costs people time & energy?

The point is, you are seriously overreacting. I know Sarell and Yasden are both intelligent enough to decide that if someone wasn't available for a good portion of the zone, they shouldn't expect a good bid.

And here here for those who give up their time and energy and really don't EXPECT something in return when there are plenty of other people there doing the same.

The only way I'd support the previous post at all is in considering a better overall point system based on the number of hours in the run and the amount of time the player spent there, 4 hours = 40, 14 hours = 140 seems better than straight 25/50/100.


Tasan please stop. We all know the philosophy if "You don't like it don't play here" isn't working. It's only contributed to the constant drop in the MUD's pbase, because the answer usually comes back as a resounding "Fine, I won't then. Bye. *door closes*" It's not like people don't have tons of options nowadays to go somewhere else. Like hello? It’s the MUD that doesn’t have as many options now.

Now I mentioned an older thread, and I gave indication that previously I didn't really understand with the point of view expressed by other posters, but now I did. I had a revelation and a concern that I feel needed to be addressed and hopefully resolved. I see a system that I myself can exploit to my own advantage, why would I not like that? What is a real shame is that those players did choose the "Fine, I won't play cuz I don't like it" path and now folks wish we had more people. How often is this happening to us? Are we not shooting ourselves in the foot with this counterproductive behavior? Is that what you really want Tasan, the MUD to die? We all know you're beef with Cyric, but do you seriously want the MUD to fail as a whole? Well I don’t. I’m tired of seeing good players, or people I convince to play get fed up and leave because of similar attitudes and practices that are rampant here, which are blatantly not working.

You want to say I'm complaining? Well hey, this *birds* for you for saying and implying such about me. You know I wasn't, and if you'd like to read the log I made of the whole journey where I continually stood up for Targsk the entire duration (a lot of it unbeknownst to him I might add) then you'd definitely know I am not here to bang on him now.

I'm here to say: Hey I can see how some hard feelings can arise between people with the current systems now. We have good people that do a good job, but there is always room for a little improvement. Perhaps we can tweak our systems for the better to help retain players instead of loosing them?

And what the exactly is wrong with that? Excuse me for actually giving a damn!


Ps. Now you owe me double. Please insert 2 hugs. Thank you.
Tasan
Sojourner
Posts: 1710
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Fridley, Mn USA
Contact:

Postby Tasan » Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:26 am

You know what... yer obviously completely correct.

Kudos to you.

*hug* x2
Danahg tells you 'yeah, luckily i kept most of it in my mouth and nasal membranes, ugh'



Dlur group-says 'I have a dead horse that I'm dragging down the shaft with my 4 corpses. Anyone want to help me beat it?'



Calladuran: There are other games to play if you want to play with yourself.
Sarell
Sojourner
Posts: 1681
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:01 am
Location: brisbane, australia

Postby Sarell » Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:51 am

Targsk did actually redice it for nonox with llalalala having the same probability as would of missed in the first round I think.

I'm not using a bid system, I don't think anyone will lead enough tia runs to bother counting points. I also think there is much more that you could take into account when collecting points, so if I was using a sytem it would be a handout system where I decide using my knowledge of who played well, who was at keys, who is not likely to quit the next day, who I thnik is a nice person :P I'll be random dicing in the mean time, if you come for a little you get half a bid or something. I don't like quantitative bidding systems, don't like eq calc, sojourn is more complicated and interactive than that.

PS If you come for 5 minutes and you accidently get a bid and win the best item you should give it to me cos everyone will be bitter at you otherwise.

PSS, TOUCH.

PSSS upgrade trophy downgrade tables, tia should give a big chunk of exp too!
Arishae group-says 'mah sunray brings all the boys to the yard'
Shadow Scream
Dalar
Sojourner
Posts: 4905
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Dalar » Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:50 am

wow, i'm sure glad i didn't clear up sunday to do tiamat!
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Gormal
Sojourner
Posts: 3917
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:01 am
Location: A Whale's Vagina
Contact:

Postby Gormal » Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:21 am

They were glad too, Brian.
Sszantiel
Sojourner
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2001 6:01 am
Location: rapid city, SD USA

Postby Sszantiel » Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:34 am

Oh damn, I missed this? How did it go? I'll try to be around for future runs!
Yasden
Sojourner
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Lake Stevens, WA, USA

Postby Yasden » Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:31 pm

Sup Reed! It went very well. Try logging onto ICQ sometime or checking here and you can get in contact with me. :P
Support Your Addiction! Vote for TorilMUD Today!



Top Mud Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/cgi-bin/topmuds/rankem.cgi?id=shev



Why Nerox is jealous of me:



Nerox tells you 'man this thing is kicking my ass and i have blisters!'

Nerox tells you 'ok attempting it again put tape on my fingers for easier sliding'
cherz
Sojourner
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: in a bog somewhere
Contact:

Postby cherz » Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:14 pm

Hey, congrats Yasden! Nice work. I don't recognize most of those names, and others yet have gone goodie and merely dusted off their evil for this, but it's quite an accomplishment either way.
Pril
Sojourner
Posts: 1834
Joined: Sat May 11, 2002 5:01 am

Postby Pril » Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:57 am

cherz wrote:Hey, congrats Yasden! Nice work. I don't recognize most of those names, and others yet have gone goodie and merely dusted off their evil for this, but it's quite an accomplishment either way.


He lives!
Zogur
Sojourner
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 6:01 am
Contact:

Postby Zogur » Sat Dec 17, 2005 11:29 am

Had i known that I would be at -75 after this split I would have bid on something other than the whip that nobody really wanted for 1st round anyways. I did this to not drive people mad by walking away with a good item after only being there for the first 4 hours. Somehow the system does not take into account "1st round" or "2nd round" items. Maybe try to adjust it for that?

I announced upfront that I could only be there for the first 4 hours and, if needed, the last 4 or 5 hours and specifically asked Targsk to take that into account before bringing me because I have to take care of my daughter and she is mightier than Tiamat!

I was happy to be there the first 4 hours, sad not to be able to assist on the last few, but happy we smote her and grateful for running away with a nice item. I'll get over the -75 I guess :)
Cyric responds to your petition with 'nah, everything's your fault'

Return to “General Discussion Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests