No more Danish Embassy :x

[Pril]

Ok, I was wrong I guess. But it is very rare that you have christians that preach revenge etc. (what I would call preach hate).

For some reason christianaty must be doing something to prevent that... guess it isnt the pope that does it though.

It's really all a question of how you look at it really. I mean if you look at this current piece of time then yeah there's very few christians who preach this shit. Sadly it's not the case throughout history. We can only hope that eventually Other culturs will become more civilized too.

[Disoputlip]

George Orwell actually wrote an essay about something similar in 1930 or so, well it was mainly Britan contra Burma. (where he was a soldier). Quite good reading that still holds true.

If anybody is bored it is called About the British people.

[avak]

Another really excellent book on some of the inherent differences between cultures (and consequently religions) is Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond. He ties a lot of what we are talking about back to initial starting points and available resources. He definitely takes the angle that Corth articulated earlier; that we essentially start out equal and are then corrupted by our surroundings and circumstances.

For example, the birth of civilization in the Fertile Crescent was really due, in part, to the abundance of grain crops that could be easily domesticated. He then goes on to show that other cultures were able to "surpass" the Middle East due to the use of domesticated animals.

The book is pretty dry, but PBS put together some great shows with Diamond hosting.

[Kifle]

Ok, I was wrong I guess. But it is very rare that you have christians that preach revenge etc. (what I would call preach hate).

For some reason christianaty must be doing something to prevent that... guess it isnt the pope that does it though.

I think you're generalizing a bit too much here. There are radical christian groups (against homosexuals, women, etc...) that promote hate as well. Maybe not hate per se, but intolerance which is a fancy dance around using the word "hate." I believe the KKK was in large part tied to christianity (and still is). True, your average christian wont pick up a gun and shoot a gay man, but they do have negative feelings towards them. The same could be said about muslims. With the percentage of the world's population that are muslim, only a very small minority follow these bogus fatwahs (ones given by osama and others like him who don't have the authority to do so). No religion is pure. There's nothing that Christianity is doing that Islamic churches are not. It just may seem like there are more fanatics in the Islamic traditions because it is the world's majority religion.

So, I'm pretty sure most muslim churches are not preaching hate, nor are the chrisitian churches. Each religion has it's history of voilence and wars carried out in their names (hitler, osama, etc...)

[Corth]

It just may seem like there are more fanatics in the Islamic traditions because it is the world's majority religion.

Nah, it seems that way cause there are more fanatics... :)

[daggaz]

Christians have a leader prophet, just like Muslims.
Ours is named Jesus Christ.

[Kifle]

Christians have a leader prophet, just like Muslims.
Ours is named Jesus Christ.

Not to split hairs or anything, but jesus was a prophet in judaism and I think the islamic traditions. He was the son of god in christianity. Muhamad was the muslim prophet; however, neither are leaders. They would be considered founders while leaders are actually alive...such like the pope.

[Corth]

I don't think Jesus is given much credit in the Jewish tradition. Muslims, on the other hand, believe Jesus is the Messiah.

[teflor the ranger]

So, I'm pretty sure most muslim churches are not preaching hate, nor are the chrisitian churches. Each religion has it's history of voilence and wars carried out in their names (hitler, osama, etc...)

As reported in Iraq, there are many, many muslim religious circles that do not preach hate and indeed denouce terrorists and their ways. For that matter, from personal experience, many muslim circles in my area do not preach hate either.

But no one said all muslims were hateful.

[avak]

The Christian Science Monitor just came out with a very interesting editorial on the protests. I personally think they downplay the West's role in the problems, but the rest of the piece is fascinating.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0210/p08s02-comv.html

The clash over the Muhammad cartoons isn't just between "the West" and Islam. It's more between Muslims. Protests over the derogatory cartoons were purposely fanned by Arab leaders who need to look like mightier defenders of Islam than the jihadists who want to overthrow them and unite all Muslims.

Many actions by the West serve as merely a foil in a long intra-Muslim struggle over whether to return the Middle East to some bygone Islamic unity of centuries past. The cartoons published in a Danish newspaper were used as an excuse to score points in a bigger game.

And to always create an enemy out of Western actions is no way to uplift Islam's image. While the West can do more not to antagonize Muslims, it is really up to Muslims to resolve their internal conflict. So far, the radicals appear on the run, with some at least running toward the ballot box rather than the ammunition box.

[Kifle]

So, I'm pretty sure most muslim churches are not preaching hate, nor are the chrisitian churches. Each religion has it's history of voilence and wars carried out in their names (hitler, osama, etc...)

As reported in Iraq, there are many, many muslim religious circles that do not preach hate and indeed denouce terrorists and their ways. For that matter, from personal experience, many muslim circles in my area do not preach hate either.

But no one said all muslims were hateful.

Isn't that what I just said?

[teflor the ranger]

So, I'm pretty sure most muslim churches are not preaching hate, nor are the chrisitian churches. Each religion has it's history of voilence and wars carried out in their names (hitler, osama, etc...)

As reported in Iraq, there are many, many muslim religious circles that do not preach hate and indeed denouce terrorists and their ways. For that matter, from personal experience, many muslim circles in my area do not preach hate either.

But no one said all muslims were hateful.

Isn't that what I just said?

Yes, but better.

[Kifle]

So, I'm pretty sure most muslim churches are not preaching hate, nor are the chrisitian churches. Each religion has it's history of voilence and wars carried out in their names (hitler, osama, etc...)

As reported in Iraq, there are many, many muslim religious circles that do not preach hate and indeed denouce terrorists and their ways. For that matter, from personal experience, many muslim circles in my area do not preach hate either.

But no one said all muslims were hateful.

Isn't that what I just said?

Yes, but better.

Because you are obviously the authority... Get hit by a bus please.

[teflor the ranger]

So, I'm pretty sure most muslim churches are not preaching hate, nor are the chrisitian churches. Each religion has it's history of voilence and wars carried out in their names (hitler, osama, etc...)

As reported in Iraq, there are many, many muslim religious circles that do not preach hate and indeed denouce terrorists and their ways. For that matter, from personal experience, many muslim circles in my area do not preach hate either.

But no one said all muslims were hateful.

Isn't that what I just said?

Yes, but better.

Because you are obviously the authority... Get hit by a bus please.

The bus was delayed by the rocks you threw at cars on the interstate, angstman.

[Ambar]

here we go again I guess

[Zabam]

I heard a hilarious skit on the radio deiving to work this morning.

It was the Islamic Cartoon Network, featuring:
Iraqi and Bullwinkle: watch me pull a rabbit out of my turbin..boom...oops
Beevus and Bin Ladin: how to get 72 virgins

[Kifle]

So, I'm pretty sure most muslim churches are not preaching hate, nor are the chrisitian churches. Each religion has it's history of voilence and wars carried out in their names (hitler, osama, etc...)

As reported in Iraq, there are many, many muslim religious circles that do not preach hate and indeed denouce terrorists and their ways. For that matter, from personal experience, many muslim circles in my area do not preach hate either.

But no one said all muslims were hateful.

Isn't that what I just said?

Yes, but better.

Because you are obviously the authority... Get hit by a bus please.

The bus was delayed by the rocks you threw at cars on the interstate, angstman.

They weren't rocks, they were diet pills. And I wasn't trying to hit the cars, I was trying to hit you -- I just have bad aim, fatman.

[sok]

Ok, I was wrong I guess. But it is very rare that you have christians that preach revenge etc. (what I would call preach hate).

For some reason christianaty must be doing something to prevent that... guess it isnt the pope that does it though.

I haven't read the second page yet, so if this is a repeat, just skip over it.

But the central figure in the christian faith is Jesus. He was confrontation in a non-violence way, with exception being in the temple. He preach love and turning of the cheek.

The central figure in the islamic faith is mohammed. i believe i read earlier that malakawee said that violence should be a last resort within this faith.

I read in a book comparing christianity and islam, this was one of the main factors between the violence and non-violence factors between the two faith. There was other of course, but just something else to add to the discussion.

[Disoputlip]

I know Islam actually mean peace, and Muhammed was a man of peace. But he wasn't really a pacifict.

He had to start a war with the jews, so he robbed caravans. Jews didn't want war, so he robbed some more caravans during easter.

Women to him was below men, and he saw it as ok that a husband hit his wife. (Sura 4)

The whole judgement day is also a bit more part of the Quran than in the Bible, and in the Quran it is a little more specific than 4 horsemen and some angels that blow their horns. (And yes, I know certain phanatic christians also have a heavy focus on judgement day).

In my oppinion this means that you can interpret more in the quran than you can in the bible.

I also think that the old testament use more or less useless. E.g. stoning doesn't really fit todays world.

--
Then there was some debate on Jesus. Jesus is a prophet for the muslims, his name in the quran is Isa. He is a messias for cristians. And he is a regular jew for the jews. (they are still waiting for messias).

[teflor the ranger]

So, I'm pretty sure most muslim churches are not preaching hate, nor are the chrisitian churches. Each religion has it's history of voilence and wars carried out in their names (hitler, osama, etc...)

As reported in Iraq, there are many, many muslim religious circles that do not preach hate and indeed denouce terrorists and their ways. For that matter, from personal experience, many muslim circles in my area do not preach hate either.

But no one said all muslims were hateful.

Isn't that what I just said?

Yes, but better.

Because you are obviously the authority... Get hit by a bus please.

The bus was delayed by the rocks you threw at cars on the interstate, angstman.

They weren't rocks, they were diet pills. And I wasn't trying to hit the cars, I was trying to hit you -- I just have bad aim, fatman.

You also have bad eyesight. I'm nowhere near as fat as your head, seeing as how I'm not fat. Keep crying.

[Oghma]

You two are stealing another thread to your petty bickering again. Let it go please.

[malakwee]

First and foremost, I am not the best person to be speaking of this matter. However, in the interest of trying to establish some sort of understanding, I will try to my best ability to be as brief and clear as possible.

From what I can see there are the following fights that are occurring in the Muslim world:

1. Muslims against Muslims

There are two muslim sects: The Sunnis (pronounced as soon-knees) and the Shites. To explain how the aggression started would be a whole book by itself.

The aggression between the Sunni and the Shites is a result of differences in matters of beliefs, and started after the passage of our prophet. Sunnis believe in Islam differently, and hence practice Islam differently than the Shites.

A majority of Muslims are Sunnites. In most Muslim labeled countries, the Shites teaching is outright not allowed, as is the case in Malaysia. In Malaysia, if a Malaysian is caught practicing the Shite version of Islam, that person would be enrolled in a faith correctional institution.

From what I hear (which is to say I may likely be wrong), to Shites, Sunnis are worse than non-muslims. To Sunnites (at least those in Malaysia), Shites are just mislead. To Malaysian Sunnites, Shites that came to visit Malaysia can practice their faith as long as they do not try to convert others.

The way it is handled in different Muslim countries differ. Some go as far as physical violence against the other sect… as what is happening in some of the middle east countries.

What I am trying to show here is that, there is nothing wrong with the religion itself… what is wrong is leaders that misinterpret the religion, hence leading others wrongly through their misinterpretations.

And to note: The Nation of Islam in the USA that saw the involvement of Malcom X is not even considered an Islamic sect by Sunnites and Shites because it diverged totally from the Islamic fundamentals.

2. Muslims against Non-muslims

To be continued…