Opinion wanted

Archived discussion from Toril-2.
puzzled
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Opinion wanted

Postby puzzled » Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:55 pm

Most everybody knows me here, but I have a serious question that calls for y'alls opinion.

I have a best friend who I grew up with. Hell, I even lived with the family when my parents wouldn't come home. Last year, my friend got married and his wife didn't like me. She's damned near like a cult's influence on my friend. She can get him to do ANYTHING. He took up smoking, pot use, drinking, etc. Just cuz she liked it. He was the top kid in the class at his college and high school both. It's just blowing my mind how much of a patsy some chick can make a guy.

Here's my problem. She hates me, cuz I don't like where she's leading him. He's quit his job, etc now as a direct result of her. He quit talking to me and even disconnected his old phone number and got a new unpublished number. So, I'd assume I've fallen off the earth as far as they're both concerned. Now, a year later, his mom is wanting me to help him get his life back in order, yet the wife is still there, and I'm quite sure she'll hate me as much as always. He's flying in to see his parents and he'll be alone.

So, I see it as if it were a one-night stand in that his wife isn't there for influence, yet I'm sure even if he talks to me, after he returns, it'll be the same 'ol. What would you do?
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Postby Kifle » Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:12 pm

Tell the dickhole to pissoff. I could understand if the guy made it understood that he still wished to be friends, but if he changed his number, even if it were under the influence of the dreaded succubus, for the sole purpose of trying to avoid contact with you, you should let it go. I've had friends fall off the face of the earth before when they had met a woman, but they would never not return our (his old friends) calls or try to make plans. This guy is obviously not friend material if he's going to throw away years worth of friendship over so white trash crack-whore.

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Postby Duna » Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:05 pm

I"d start off by askin his mom how she thinks you can help him when he hasn't talked to you in so long.. that might help give you an idea on if it's her wanting you to help him, or her askin for him.. he might want to get in touch with you, but be afraid that you'll reject contact from him..
and my opinion, the best way he can clean up his life, if the wife's still actin the same.. is kick her to the curb.
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Postby Sundara » Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:34 pm

I understand that the mother desperately wants to help out her son, that is her baby after all, any good mother or good parents would not give up on their kids no matter how long it takes to get them back on the straight and narrow. It takes lots of strength and patience and above all, IMHO, faith.

With that said, all you can do is be supportive of his mom and family because this isn't easy for any parent who goes through this kind of ordeal with their "lost" child and I can assure you, it isn't easy for him either and is the one suffering the most. Hopefully, this is only temporary and believe me when I say, if drugs are involved it's gonna take some time for him to be on the right road again.

It took a brother of mine almost 2 1/2 years for him to completely go clean. He, too, got involved and married a psychopath, drug dependant, bi-polar, ADD, etc. you name it, committing all kinds heinous, nasty "acts" Of course, we didnt know any of this until after it was to late (after marriage) We never knew such people existed let alone meeting one like that. She was evil with a cold stoned heart who took pleasure in causing havoc everywhere she went dragging my bro because the only thing he was at fault here, was a good heart and having compassion for her that she fed from that and manipulated him really well.

Needless to say, my family and I went through hell for a good 2 1/2 years that seemed FOREVER and one thing we NEVER did, was give up on my bro. Eventually, the marriage was annualed and he had been cleaned ever since. Now of course, in his case, he had to hit rock bottom ( 8 month jail time) because he was blinded by that demon and stupidily took the charges of crimes that SHE committed. His life was threatend and so was my entire family. She came from a very bad up-bringing and her entire family were involved in drugs/gangs. Now, I'm not saying he's a saint, he's far from it but before getting married to her, he always lived a good life with a clean record.

Don't give up if you care for him like a brother, but have LOTS of patience, strength and faith to overcome this ordeal. That is my advice because believe it or not, he does need help and the only way that can happen is if, she is out of his life and he gets rehab, etc.

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Postby Verarb » Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:04 pm

Is she hot?
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Postby Dalar » Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:42 pm

Sleep with his wife while he's away. I'm sure he'll talk to you then. Not only will you get laid, he'll realize she's a whore and will try to get his life back together after.
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Postby Glorishan » Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:21 pm

I'd pshift prime.
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Re: Opinion wanted

Postby Llaaldara » Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:26 pm

puzzled wrote:Most everybody knows me here, but I have a serious question that calls for y'alls opinion.

I have a best friend who I grew up with. Hell, I even lived with the family when my parents wouldn't come home. Last year, my friend got married and his wife didn't like me. She's damned near like a cult's influence on my friend. She can get him to do ANYTHING. He took up smoking, pot use, drinking, etc. Just cuz she liked it. He was the top kid in the class at his college and high school both. It's just blowing my mind how much of a patsy some chick can make a guy.

Here's my problem. She hates me, cuz I don't like where she's leading him. He's quit his job, etc now as a direct result of her. He quit talking to me and even disconnected his old phone number and got a new unpublished number. So, I'd assume I've fallen off the earth as far as they're both concerned. Now, a year later, his mom is wanting me to help him get his life back in order, yet the wife is still there, and I'm quite sure she'll hate me as much as always. He's flying in to see his parents and he'll be alone.

So, I see it as if it were a one-night stand in that his wife isn't there for influence, yet I'm sure even if he talks to me, after he returns, it'll be the same 'ol. What would you do?


Dear Puzzled,

Getting involved in other people's family business is not a good idea. No matter how close you are, you are not blood. I advise against getting involved. This former friend is obviously deep in love with his wife. Therefor, any move you make contrary to her wishes will only serve to further distance you from your friend, and further turn you into the enemy in his eyes as well.

Even showing up to his mother's house to stand with his parents WILL put you at odds with him. You will be choosing a side by standing with his parents. As good hearted and intended as this can be, it is the wrong move. The only way your friend is going to see how bad their wife is, is for them to see it themselves and to come to grips with the situation, themselves. You cannot force them to see this, because love is blind.

By not being there at his mother's house, you are not being a bad friend. You are being a good friend by not choosing sides, by not getting involved in a family matter, and by remaining to stay neutral in the conflict. His mother will undoubtly mention your name.

My advice to you, tell his mother one thing. Tell her you miss him. Let that be the ONE message you want her to convey on your behaf. Be home when he is at his parents visiting. If he chooses to come visit you, do not bring up the issue of his wife or his life or how they affect eachother. I REPEAT, do not bring up the topic of his wife or current state of life. Because if you do, you will be siding with his parents again, and you will be throwing more pressure on him. He will have already gotten a TON from his parents, you don't need to give him more.

Instead, focus on the past BEFORE his wife. Talk about things you used to do together, perhaps even do some of them if you can. Let him jog his own memory of what his life was like before her. Let HIM come to these conclussions. Be subtle. Let him draw the line by slowly getting his mind in the right field.

Also remember, even if you were his blood brother, he would still resent you if you stood against him. Standing against his wife's wishes will be in his love-soaked mind, viewed as you standing against him. The only difference is that if you were blood, he would eventually forgive you because he has to, you're blood. But since you're not, stay out of it.

Remember, be nuetral in this conflict. Be a place of rest and peace away from the pressures he is going to face. By doing so you will prove to a be a true friend to him by respecting him enough to make up his own damn mind.
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Postby Branthur » Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:01 am

Yeah, I can understand where his mom's coming from, wanting a good influence from his past there to help him out, but if he's coming home to see his family, his family ambushing him is going to be hard enough without the perception that you are there ambushing him as well. Interventions can be a good thing, if they're done right, but handled incorrectly can possibly just drive the person away farther. Don't get directly involved in a family gathering.

I do agree..leave a message that you do want to talk to him, and to see him again. Anybody can make a bad mistake (even lasting a year or more), and come back to their senses. It does sound like this guy needs some help, and making him aware that you are there to talk to if he wants will do a world more good than showing up at a family meeting.

Just remember though...don't let him drag you through his crap. And no, I don't mean you run the risk of doing what he's doing. If he screws up, and cut you off, etc., but eventually comes around and tries to patch things up, wonderful. It sounds like he could use that kind of support. HOWEVER, obviously don't be a doormat either. It is unfortunate, but sometimes friendships do just go bad, even long lasting ones. Him saying he's sorry is one thing. Cutting you off, getting back in contact, cutting you off again, getting back in contact again, over and over is obviously a bad thing, and you will know best when to say "I'm done." Especially if he never admits that he's done something wrong. If they can't face that they were wrong, it is just that much harder.

If he's having trouble, being an understanding friend is a good thing. He needs support. But don't get involved in a family gathering like this, and don't get stepped on either, no matter how much you may want to help.
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Postby Kifle » Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:03 am

Dalar wrote:Sleep with his wife while he's away. I'm sure he'll talk to you then. Not only will you get laid, he'll realize she's a whore and will try to get his life back together after.


Fucking genius!
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Postby Sundara » Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:20 pm

The sleeping with her plan does not always work! Yes, you'll get laid, but possibly sever your friendship with him completely even if he did end his marriage (i've seen this sorta thing happen) and something tells me you're not the kind of guy to do this anyway. (I could be wrong though!) but also, you don't know if she's got any kind of nasty STDs.

As i'm reading other advices, they are all pretty good, too, and could prove effective since you are not blood related however, each case *is* different. Environmental, upbringing in the home, etc. and I think all you can do pretty much is keep being a friend like before she walked into his life, that is how you'd be supportive of his family and him. Just do things your way that could help him out in the end.
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Postby Dalar » Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:33 pm

Clearly Sundara doesn't know I'm just kidding. Or am I...
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Sundara » Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:20 am

I know you were clearly joking, Dalar, but maybe there are readers out there who take that sorta thing seriously. =p The world is full of........



everything....
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Postby Botef » Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:48 am

From my experience:

Your friend probably won't 'accept' help in fixing what you and his family preceive as problems until he 'accepts' that they exist and is willint to try and resolve them. I've been in similar situations in my life, and people telling me how bad things are going for me never once helped the situation, and sometimes only kept me more distant for fear of having to face scrutiny.

The best thing IMO you can do is make your presence known. Let him know, either on your own accord or via his mother, that your still willing to be just a friend. Its really up to him to decide if he wants to confide in someone else yet, but letting him know your still there for him will atleast leave the door open.

Don't push him to admit anything or fix anything if he's not ready to, as that will generally only make it more difficult for him to feel comfortable even discussing it. He may not want to walk away from it all, which sounds like what his mother wants him to do...If he doesn't feel comfortable doing so yet pushing him won't help. Let him know your there, that he has support and people who care about him should he want to take it that far - but that if not, your still there should he change his mind.

In my past experience it took me nearly a year to realize that the place I was at in life was doing me a diservice and that I needed to move on...Looking back its painfully obvious that was the case, but back then all I wanted to do was make things work and if its one thing about humans, its that they are quick to rely on their faith in something working out in the end long before they really take a serious look at the other options. Its very difficult to walk away from what is essentially your life and decide to change yourself, your friends, your surroundings, etc just because things are not going well be it personal, financial, etc. Being that I'm about to get married myself in July, I'm going to assume that being married in such a situation adds a great deal of stress as your 'life' comes tumbling down and changes. It can be hard to see these changes as positive until long after they transpire, especially when they involve icky words like 'divorce', 'drugs', etc.

I guess the most important suggestion I can offer is that you and his family really, above all, just need to be there for him. That can be so much more useful in letting him feel comfortable breaking away from what sounds like a unhealthy situation...Putting blame on his wife, telling him he is in a horriable place, etc do nothing to help him really feel comfortable about it- it only tosses it back in his face and doesn't work towards resolve. Take it slow and just make yourself available to him, and hope he makes use of it as best he can. Just my 2 cents.
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Postby Kifle » Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:30 am

Sundara wrote:I know you were clearly joking, Dalar, but maybe there are readers out there who take that sorta thing seriously. =p The world is full of........



everything....


Full of what? People like me? Why not just say it, sunny? Tu me haces triste :(
Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'

Kifle puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Thalidyrr tells you 'Yeah, you know, getting it like a jackhammer wears you out.'

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Postby ssar » Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:13 am

Dalar wrote:Sleep with his wife while he's away. I'm sure he'll talk to you then. Not only will you get laid, he'll realize she's a whore and will try to get his life back together after.


Actually, that is the most sensible post I have ever seen from you.. and wtf I agree - 1st thing that came to my mind as well.

Get into his wife, and his mum also preferrably (unless she's mega) - they are on the road to ruin anyways, you may as well toss something into the mix.

Then fu*k them all off, go live elsewhere, forget about 'em and start life anew.
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Postby Shar » Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:19 pm

...

Someone came here under a screen name to ask for advice from people they interact with. Believeable.

Lots of folks trying to be helpful by giving advice. Believeable

A few trying to be either humerous or total jerks by pretending to give advice. Sadly, this has also become believeable.

Puzzled, go with your gut. The instinctual feelings are usually the correct ones. You have to have some idea of what would be best in this situation, whatever they may be. :)

Good luck and just remember, you can't do much for the downward spiral of society but you may be able to help your friend, if he realizes he needs help. If he does NOT realize it, better to slam your head into a brick wall over and over and over.
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Postby Shevarash » Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:31 am

I smell bullcrap.
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Postby Dalar » Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:42 am

It's not even a personal question, it's about his friend. There is no reason to post this question as your real screenname, so yes this is just a bunch of bullshit and should be treated like such. FYI, I painted the word gullible on your ceiling.
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Postby dem » Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:57 am

Help him, seems like you and him where very tight before so in my book you owe him that much.
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Postby Sundara » Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:04 pm

Kifle wrote:
Sundara wrote:I know you were clearly joking, Dalar, but maybe there are readers out there who take that sorta thing seriously. =p The world is full of........



everything....


Full of what? People like me? Why not just say it, sunny? Tu me haces triste :(


Kifle, don't make me say stuff when you're feeling down and sad.
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Postby kwirl » Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:02 am

going on the assumption that this is a serious question, looking for a serious answer, let me give you the solution.


"Are you happy with where your life has gone, and if not, do you know where you want it to go?"

anything else is pointless to hypothesize, anticipate, or expect.

if the answer is yes, then that is all. you've done your job. if the answer is no, then you need to let him answer the second part, and find out if you want to be a part of that solution.

-roger
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Postby Sundara » Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:35 pm

Dalar wrote:It's not even a personal question, it's about his friend. There is no reason to post this question as your real screenname, so yes this is just a bunch of bullshit and should be treated like such. FYI, I painted the word gullible on your ceiling.


Hey, Dartypooh! I heard someone painted E S C A L A T E on YOUR ceiling!

Look up there!

hahahaha!

I know how much you like that lil ditty.

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