National Pre-Employment Screening Program

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Botef
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National Pre-Employment Screening Program

Postby Botef » Thu Apr 13, 2006 10:53 pm

This issue has been creeping its way along with little to no coverage by the media...Whether many of you agree or disagree with the idea behind the program it is obvious that this is a rushed proposal with little focus on what I see as CRITICAL flaws. Most of the people I encounter day to day have no idea a program such as this is in the works, let alone close to being in place. The program is being pushed as a 'quick' fix to immigration issues that have recently been a popular topic in the news after the recent protests in California and elsewhere.

I urge ALL of you American players to take some time and do a little research, write a letter to congress or take other steps to bring this topic to the public eye.

This Program Would:

Force ALL employers in America to seek government permission BEFORE hiring ANY worker, American or Foreign.

Cost Americans 11.7 Billion each year, most of which will be placed on employers.

Would force all private employers to submit Social Secruity Numbers and additional information on prospective and current employees to the Department of Homeland Secruity to run through a computer database.

The Database will contain extensive personal information on EVERY American...This could be stolen, misused or transformed into a National ID system.

If the program is made Mandatory for all employers, and the 10 percent error rate that already has been experienced continues, hundreds of thousdands of Americans would be improperly denied the ability to work.

Requiring Federal Government permission before taking a job has the potential to finacially ruin thousands of law-abiding, taxpaying citizens.


Here is a brief letter from the Liberty Coalition:


Dear Liberty Coalition members,

Section 301 of Senator Specter's Chairman's Mark on Immigration, the "Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2006," proposes the creation of a nationwide pre-employment screening system for all Americans. This system has already passed the House of Representatives as part of Congressman Sensenbrenner's H.R. 4437, the "Border Protection, Antiterrorism, and Illegal Immigration Control Act of 2005."

Liberty Coalition urges its members to call or email the Senate Judciary Committee and your Senators to oppose the creation of an Employment Eligibility Verification System, or, if you cannot oppose this outright, to demand that rigorous privacy safeguards be built into any system through explicit, extensive, statutory language. The Committee is holding markups all day Wednesday, March 8, and Thursday, March 9, so immediate action is needed for maximum impact.

You can find your Senator by calling the Capitol switchboard at 202-224-3121 and asking for your Senator's office. The Senate Judiciary Committee phone number is 202-224-5225. You can email your state's Senators and the entire Judiciary Committee by visiting our automated action alert page set up for this issue.

Background Information:

* The GAO estimated in August 2005 that it will cost $11.7 billion annually to operate such a system, with the majority of the costs imposed on employers

* The existing Basic Pilot Employment Verification System created in 1996 only includes 3,600 employers; expanding it to all 8.4 million employers in the United States would face huge technological obstacles.

* In its current limited usage, the automated system fails to verify one in every ten workers. Multiply that failure rate by all 146 million employees and 54 million new hires every year, and hundreds of thousands of workers could lose their jobs or be needlessly denied work every year.

* Current legislative language does not require a system be put in place for Americans who are erroneously denied the right to work to seek redress and correct the information in their files.

* Identity theft and the use of fraudulent documents will increase dramatically as people exploit this weakness to circumvent the system.

* The collection of extensive sensitive information on every work-eligible American is a huge privacy risk, for both identity theft and misuse of data by government agencies or private entities contracted to operate the system.

* An additional amendment proposed by Senator Sessions that would allow all of the information in this system to be shared freely between the Department of Homeland Security, the Social Security Administration, the Internal Revenue Service, the Department of Labor, and the Department of the Treasury shows how this system could be expanded to threaten personal privacy. While the stated purpose would be to identify illegal immigrants, the result could easily be government fishing expeditions into the private affairs of innocent Americans.


The no-fly list already in use has already proven to be flawed and many innocent Americans are denied the right to fly and forced to jump through unnessecary hoops to clear their name...This is not the American way of Innocent before proven guilty and pre-defined lists like this do little to help or to protect the the 'average' American.

Furthermore, the proposal will put more strain on small businesses already suffering from the inability to compete with large corporate entities. Making businesses foot the bill for such a program is ridiculus. If businesses want this kind of information, they can opt to do so using one of the many MANY pre-screening companies already in existence.

Whether you agree with the idea of a national database or not, this program needs to be scrutinized more closely...Unfortunatly, its being pushed through as a 'quick' fix to immigration problems and many people don't seem to grasp what it really is.



http://libertycoalition.net/ssn-dhs-pre-employ-alert
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Postby Corth » Fri Apr 14, 2006 12:28 am

Shiver...

What these idiot politicians don't realize is that if all the so-called illegal immigrants were deported overnight, the country would be screwed. These people are necessary for the economy.

All that this pre employment screening scheme will accomplish is to force more people into the cash only black market economy. The people are still here and they need to work, and there are people who will want to pay them.

Its time to stop playing stupid games with these people. We need to let more immigrants into the country legally, and then stop providing services of any type to those here illegally.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

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Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Apr 14, 2006 11:20 pm

Corth wrote:What these idiot politicians don't realize is that if all the so-called illegal immigrants were deported overnight, the country would be screwed. These people are necessary for the economy.


No, they're not. However, significant changes that would effect everyone's lives would have to happen if they were suddenly all deported.
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Postby alendar » Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:19 am

teflor the ranger wrote:
Corth wrote:What these idiot politicians don't realize is that if all the so-called illegal immigrants were deported overnight, the country would be screwed. These people are necessary for the economy.


No, they're not. However, significant changes that would effect everyone's lives would have to happen if they were suddenly all deported.


but who will screw up my order at mc donalds??????????
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Postby Selias » Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:28 pm

Yes, these illegal immigrants are vital to america's economy. Not to sound rude or uncaring, but thes immigrants do the jobs that other americans don't want to do. Do you want to get paid $5.15/hr to walk ankle deep in sh*t and pick mushrooms up in kennet square, PA? I highly doubt it, but the illegal immigrants will do it for that wage.

That's just an example of one job, but there are several others that Americans won't do for the low pay. So some of you will say "Then offer more money for the job!" Well to that I say take an economics class. If the employers offer more money for these jobs, then their profit margin will be much slimmer, and for most farmers in America, their profit margin is already pretty slim.

I do agree there is a problem! These immigrants don't pay taxes, but they do use our schools, hospitals, law enforcement, etc. Essentially they're getting these things for free. A way to fix it? Well one way to fix it is to remove the minimum wage. In the long run prices would re-shift to reflect the lowered income of people, plus now that employers are paying lest to manufacture their goods so the costs would be lower.

However that will never happen, so let's brainstorm and try to come up with an idea that won't hurt our economy, won't take money out of people's pockets, and will ensure that our government is getting paid for the services they provide to the people.
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Postby rylan » Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:51 pm

Sorry, but the whole argument about illegals doing jobs that 'americans don't want' it bull.
The reason illegals are being payed those low wages is because it is under the table and is avoiding taxes. The employer doesn't report it, and the illegal worker doesn't report it. If they actually had to report the wages to the government, the pay would be higher to make up for taxes etc. Also they are able to 'live' on the super low wages because 10 of them pack into a one bedroom apartment.
And, its not just the manual related industry any more, its spread to service and is moving up the chain, taking jobs from those who have at least some amount of skill and supressing lower end wage growth. Have you seen what is happening to the contracting buisness (builders etc) ?

Yes, the biggest problem is all of the services the illegals are using that they are stealing, yes STEALING, from citizens who end up having to pay for it and many who can't afford it.
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Postby Yasden » Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:36 am

Leave it to conservatives to pinch pennies and drive our economy into the dirt. Oh wait, they already have.

Illegal immigrants are only working the jobs no one else wants. Tell someone who's been laid off, been foreclosed, filed bankruptcy, and is homeless that. I won't repeat everything Rylan just said, but I grew up witnessing that scenario many times over.

They would come to New Mexico, the man of the house would get a job as a roughneck in the oil field or as an ag worker for under the table pay. Meanwhile, the woman of the house would report to the government that she was single (husband had left, died, whatever), and they would REAP the benefits of every government program imaginable. She would pop out 3-4-5 kids all the while, getting even MORE benefits. They would be driving around brand new vehicles and their kids wearing designer clothes. Meanwhile, my dad was raising us by himself on a $25k salary and couldn't even get my brother and I reduced lunches at school because he made too much money.

Even with the state doing stings on food stamp abuse, it still doesn't curb this type of behavior. As much as this is supposed to be the land of opportunity, I'd like to know when that opportunity will be given to the people who were born here. We need to begin deporting illegals as we find them, and increasing the border patrols, securing our borders, and being extremely selective on the immigration process.

I'm not saying there aren't decent people out there just trying to make a better life for themselves, but they need to go through the proper lines of naturalization so that they can be an official citizen and be a productive member of society instead of being part of the free-rider contingent that's draining our government programs.
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Postby Botef » Sun Apr 16, 2006 5:06 am

But is a system that forces all of its citizens to get permission from the government BEFORE working at a job sound like a logical solution? Would this really curb illegal immigrants from continuing to work under the table...And if it did even moderately reduce those numbers, would it be worth the error rate and frustration, and the taxation, of our own citizens? This bill doesn't even have a system for getting your name taken off the "do not hire" list, and we all know how impossible it is to undue things in your governmental/public records.

I understand the complaints and reasons for stopping illegal aliens, but a system in which I have get permission to do a job, and earn money for my family is ridiculus...I'm already forced to prove I'm an American using my SSN and ID when being hired, I shouldn't also have to get permission to do so and prove I'm not some kind of terrorist. A system like this lays the ground work for further discrimination within our own employment system...

* An additional amendment proposed by Senator Sessions that would allow all of the information in this system to be shared freely between the Department of Homeland Security, the Social Security Administration, the Internal Revenue Service, the Department of Labor, and the Department of the Treasury shows how this system could be expanded to threaten personal privacy. While the stated purpose would be to identify illegal immigrants, the result could easily be government fishing expeditions into the private affairs of innocent Americans.


Take an honest look at what is being proposed here. This program does little more than make it HARDER for American citizens to get a job, not easier. Illegal immigrants work under the table...Are they going to submit to this program? We'd be better of taking that 11.7 billion and cracking down on employers who DO use illegal immigrants.

Considering our current state with identity theft, we'd be bound to see a whole new slew of problems....Its already hard enough to undue credit damage done by someone stealing your identity, now imagine how hard that is when your not legally allowed to work because your name ends up on the 'do not hire' list. Now imagine trying to undo this in a program that doesnt have a system for fixing errors, and has a 10% margin of error.
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Postby Ashiwi » Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:29 pm

Seems like just another way for the government to keep track of what legal citizens do. Not that I'm paranoid, or anything, but logic never seems to be a factor when politicians start getting excited about new methods of knowing exactly where Joe Schmoe is at any given time.

Now pardon me while I go list all my personal information on the national do-not-call list so evil-bad-guy-spam-marketers will know not to dial my number.
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Postby rylan » Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:30 pm

Yes, I agree with the original post for this thread, that a pre-screening system is flawed at best, and full of kickbacks, corruption, and pork at worst. I see no need for something like that, because as said illegals will still work and get paid under the table and avoid the system.

I only see something like this causing more paperwork and beurocrocy. If they want to implement some kind of screening program, attach it quietly to drivers licenses (the same way that passport screening is already done) and run the person through the database that way, not by screening for jobs.
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Postby Karenthael » Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:06 am

Ok first, don't put all illegals in the same category, many do not scam the system and are just trying to make things better for their families, an act that I applaud. Further, there are just as many legal people in this country scamming (i.e. you drive a lexus but you buy your food with foodstamps???) so the illegals are not the ones causing the problem, as such. They may be contributing to it, yes, but they are not CAUSING it. And to say that they are able to live on low wages because they pack 10 people in a one bedroom apartment.....that is such a racist comment I am speechless on that one.


As for the proposal itself.....I wasn't aware of the specifics of it but thanks to this thread now I am. Thanks.
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Postby rylan » Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:23 am

Fyi it is not a racist statement to say that many of the illegals can live on low wages because of their living conditions... ie many people in a small apartment. This is exactly what is happening in Framingham, a town nearby to me. There are extreme cases of housing violations, not to mention fire safety code violations, of 8-12 people living in single bedroom houses or up to 20 living in a 2 family duplex. Its a huge political issue in that town right now, not to mention what its doing to the property valuation in the area and how its destroyed the school system and care level at the local hospital, where the ER is being used as a doctor's office for any kind of medical issue by illegals.
I apologize for my generalization, although it is factual for a substantial number of illegal immigrants.

No, they are not causing some of the problems, however many are taking full advantage of the situation and lack of enforcement. Just because it is possible to break the law and get away with it doesn't make it alright.
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Postby Karenthael » Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:57 am

Thank you for the clarification and the apology for the terminology. And yes many do live that way, but many do not do so by choice but rather as a direct result of low wages. I applied for a job picking onions in a nearby town but they refused to hire me because they would have to put me on the insurance. They actually look for illegals in order to avoid things like that, as well as the opportunity to gain a higher profit margin I suppose. I believe that this would fall under the category of "enabling". Some of the very same people who are up in arms over this issue are those who NEED to have it implemented on them to keep them from pulling this kind of thing and keeping people who would be able to pay taxes from working.
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Postby Imis9 » Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:46 am

As a few folks have alluded to in this thread, the real issue is Hispanic immigration from predominately Mexico. No one is really complaining about other groups and the vast majority of illegals are Hispanic.

We need immigration in our country. Throughout our history, immigrants have given new strength to our country. Hell, back in the late 1700’s and early 1800’s, Germans were considered to be like Hispanics are today. This goes in cycles. By cycles, I mean waves of immigrants coming in until they begin to grow too large and immigration needs to be controlled to provide time for assimilation.

Personally, I believe that assimilation is the real problem with Hispanic immigration. Too many are insisting on using their language in everyday life. In addition, we see the protesters waving Mexican flags. Finally, an argument can be made that many of these illegals do not actually want to be Americans; they are simply here to earn American dollars to take back home.

I disagree with Bush about guest workers. Look at Europe, they have created a real mess by allowing guest workers in their countries. You have entire areas of those countries populated with people who want nothing to do with that country’s history. It is a recipe for disaster. Maybe not in our lifetime, but in a few generations, it has the potential to ruin our country.

In closing, immigration should be for folks that want to actually be Americans not for folks that want to use our system as welfare. Yes, illegals come here to work our low wage jobs, but let’s not get confused. If our low wage jobs were so low, they wouldn’t come, right? Therefore, the answer is to push their countries to move to a more capitalist and free system to improve their quality of life.

New citizens should have a command of the language and should be encouraged to assimilate into the Great Melting Pot.
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Postby Gruy » Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:30 am

first off the government screening is insane i can honestly say if this passes look out canada here i come. second of all hispanic's arent the only ones this should adress honestly. they are just the most commonly used class for that sterotype..

the same exact thing is happening in the midwest to northeast with bosnians and other middle eastern folk. same living sitations and under the table wage.. granted they are a large part of the economy but are also the reason people who are only skilled enough to work dead end jobs ir: food industry cant get a decent wage to do it.

shrugs i dont really do polotics... but i will most certainly keep an eye on this turd and in the mean time ill look for something nice in canada perhaps... hey lili hook me up with an apartment guide will ya?:p
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Postby Botef » Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:50 pm

Website that will help you figure out who you should contact in Congress.
http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/
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Postby Nokar » Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:00 pm

I don't like the proposed screening process.

As far as immigrants being here. Get them out or make them legal. Not trying to be a racist prick by saying it. Not all of them but some of them cost us more money than they friggin make in a season. All these "x"-rights groups say take them in, give them welfare, medical, etc. We pay for that crap. They don't pay taxes on the wages they earn here during the time they are here. Some of them run down entire blocks then leave which costs us even more money and drives our property value down.
And why the hell do I have to learn their language just to order a damn big mac, or watch simpsons at 7pm! What other country openly allows that? You think that any other country is going to force their own to speak a different language just because we as americans decide we want to work over there to evade taxes, and bring back currency that is worth more than ours?
doubt it.

argg. Some of the decisions made by our government are ludicrous(sp). Most are looking for a big pat on the back or an atta-boy as they are on their way out the door because they are getting too damn senile to stay in office.

How about that house lady they punched the policeman because SHE didn't have her badge. Awww. I'm sorry.. now don't arrest me even though I think I am right.
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Postby Yasden » Sun May 07, 2006 12:55 am

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8CHiF-lQhBw& ... %20english

Don't watch it if you're easily offended. You've been warned.
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Postby Corth » Sun May 07, 2006 2:26 am

Warning like Yasden's post above!

http://www.goyk.com/video.asp?path=1909
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Sun May 07, 2006 1:53 pm

Wow, that was funny as hell. Horrible, but damn funny.
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Postby rylan » Sun May 07, 2006 10:17 pm

Hahahahaha
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Postby Sundara » Mon May 08, 2006 8:26 pm

I'm latina and I must say, first link made me laugh....alot!, the second link, I've seen before, and when I saw it the first time, I wanted to call some brothas, track the mother fucker down, and shank him like he's never been shanked before, and throw him over the border and perform a communion.

Funny, I see it the second time, and the same thought still ran through my mind. oop! =p

In addition, the screening process is a big effing joke but I think we all know that ignorance is bliss. ;p
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