Final Fantasy XII

Archived discussion from Toril-2.
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Final Fantasy XII

Postby Gormal » Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:52 am

I realize that I'm a bit late in getting my greasy nerd hands on this game, but hey... I'm at sea so it takes time.

I'm not very far in yet, but so far this is looking like the best FF installment since 7 or Tactics.

Is anyone else playing this? I'm curious how balanced everything stays at higher levels. Do you hit the invincible plateau that has plagued the series for a while now? I've never died this much playing a FF game, and its enjoyable.

Gripes:

1.) Inverted X Axis.
2.) Finding a Save Crystal is next to impossible when you need one.
3.) Inverted X Axis.
4.) Pronounciation of names (Marquis = Mahr Kwiss. Ivalice = Ihv-ah-lease) I always thought it was Eye-Vahl-Iss
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Postby Ambar » Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:13 am

Arilin WAS playing it til he got his Wii yesterday .. *sigh*
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Re: Final Fantasy XII

Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:52 pm

Gormal wrote:I realize that I'm a bit late in getting my greasy nerd hands on this game, but hey... I'm at sea so it takes time.

I'm not very far in yet, but so far this is looking like the best FF installment since 7 or Tactics.

Is anyone else playing this? I'm curious how balanced everything stays at higher levels. Do you hit the invincible plateau that has plagued the series for a while now? I've never died this much playing a FF game, and its enjoyable.

Gripes:

1.) Inverted X Axis.
2.) Finding a Save Crystal is next to impossible when you need one.
3.) Inverted X Axis.
4.) Pronounciation of names (Marquis = Mahr Kwiss. Ivalice = Ihv-ah-lease) I always thought it was Eye-Vahl-Iss


I'm about 30 hours into the game atm.

I've enjoyed it fairly well actually, and the people who did the story are the people who did the story for FFT, and Vagrant Story. So yeah it's a fairly solid story.

The save crystal thing, I dunno. I don't find that a problem. I've never run I can always backtrack if I need to save that bad, but it's never that bad for me.

The voice acting is suprisingly good.
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Postby Sarvis » Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:13 pm

Well, I'm almost 50 hours in... and I'm still kind of on the fence about it. I don't like the new combat system. It's pretty non-interactive, and the gambit system isn't interesting enough to make up for it. (That is to say I'd like to make more complex scripts than are possible.)

The other bad thing about this game is that you need to farm loot to get any money. Instead of battles giving you gil they give you items that you sell. The problem is that, especially in the beginning, everything is worth so little that you don't get to buy much equipment. I was almost 30 hours in and a couple of my characters were still wearing the first piece of armor I'd bought for them! That's WITH spending 3 sessions in a room where 30 enemies will eventually respawn.

I have to mention the license grid as well. This mostly feels like wasted potential to me. You're supposed to be able to customize your character with it, but instead you just end up with a bunch of characters who have everything. At least as far as augmentations go, you can go down and left for melee augments (ie. increased melee damage, improved shieldblock chances) or straight left for magic augments. However in some places the augments cross each other forcing you to buy things you don't really want a character have to get things you do want. A big example is that to get the last Magic Lore augment you have to go through either Brawler (unarmed combat) or Battle Lore. Worse yet, you end up getting so many LP and spending so little on equipment slots that you will end up buying everything anyway. It's a far cry from the Sphere Grid.

The game has stayed pretty challenging so far, more so than other FF titles.

The voice acting is pretty good, in fact I'm pretty much in love with Fran's voice! The graphics are great, of course.

Overall I'd say it's quite a bit better than FF8, but not as good as the rest of the games in the series.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:27 pm

I find getting loot fairly easy, first gambit = steal if foe = 100% hp or whatever it is. Always get some decent sellable loot. And the more you sell, the more fun things that'll be on in the bazaar. Get some damn good discounts with that. Same with LP, fun little trinkets that gives double LP.

Gambits are very handy for the simple usual random battles, it makes it mindnumbingly so. But for big boss battles, I have gambits on but I still tend to control my characters more so than the usual.
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Postby Sarvis » Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:08 pm

Foe 100%: Steal is a good demonstration of my complaints against gambits. I'd LOVE to be able to have it execute only once on a given enemy, AND only on enemies I'm already in combat with. Far too often I find him stealing twice from the same enemy or running off and drawing more enemies in because he wants to steal.

Another example is Esuna. I'd love to have Esuna cast if I'm suffering from more than 3 status ailments... unfortunately I can only set it up to respond to specific ailments. This means both that I'm using expensive spells to cure poison, that I have like 60 antidotes for, and that I might NOT use esuna if I don't have the right triggers set up. *sigh*
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Postby Ragorn » Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:43 pm

The reason I don't want to play FFXII is because the Gambit system seems like a gimmick to me.

Now, I firmly believe that a game should be challenging in its own right. Some games, like Shadow of the Colossus, are only difficult because you have to wrestle with the control scheme to make your character perform properly. In essence, most of the challenge is comes from learning to use the control scheme to make your character act appropriately.

Remember Sabin's Blitzes in FF6? That was a fucking horrible system. Look, I know I want my guy to do Bum Rush. I know it's the right attack for the situation. But in order to do it, I have to spin the joystick around just right, or else he "fails" to execute the move. That's a poor combat system. The monsters aren't hard, pulling off the stupid button combination to do the move I want to do is hard.

FFXII reeks of the same style of "challenge." Look, I know I want to have my thief steal from every mob one and only one time. I know I want to have my healer heal people low on hit points. I know I want to use Esuna only when I have 3 status ailments, or any time I'm poisoned. I know I want to do regular attacks, except against guys who are vulnerable to fire, and then I want to use Fira. But half the challenge in FFXII is trying to figure out how to apply the Gambit system to make this happen. The skill isn't picking the right spell, or knowing the weakness of the enemy, or having the right weapons and items. The skill is knowing how to make the game DO what you want your characters to DO.

That's not my idea of a fun challenge. FFXII hamstrings you by only letting you assign two gambits to start, and letting you "earn" more gambits throughout the game. So what's the challenge? Hah, you stupid noob, you have to figure out how to make your guy do what you want him to do with only two commands LOL!

No thanks. Plus, FFXII requires you to grind exp and loot. If I want to grind, I'll play WoW.
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Postby Dalar » Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:41 pm

If you are in the need of save crystals your party sucks balls.
I barely use 3 gambits and I'm 42 hours in.
The Gambit system is autopilot so you don't have to do commands for everything and represents something remotely similar to having 2 people playing for you. Think of MUD triggers.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Branthur » Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:55 pm

I've really enjoyed it so far...I think I'm just about done with the game, though I've largely ignored the Hunting minigame, etc, and mainly just dealt with the main quest.

I use 2-4 gambits total on any given character, mainly just to toss a heal on someone low hp, and to have the party attack the same monster that the leader is attacking. I have a couple people set with gambits to toss firaga at things that are weak to fire, etc, but that's about it.

Only once did I have to "grind" xp, and rarely have I had a problem with money. Sure, I haven't been able to afford the top tier stuff for EVERYONE in the party, but I'm not going without by any extent.

Not to say that the combat system doesn't have problems...it certainly does. I do dislike what a few people have mentioned already about not being able to set a gambit to cast esuna on someone who has 3+ status ailments, and sometimes the AI is a bit dumb, but mainly only run into that when dealing with guest characters that you can't take over manual control for some of the big fights. With exception to the big fights (which do remain quite difficult through the game btw, no matter how well you're set), the shear amount of RUNNING you have to do does get a bit tedious, fighting the same monsters over and over again...sure, you can run, but then you don't get the LP for it, which was partly intended I think, and I don't really agree with. A few of the puzzles are set to just be "if you guess lucky enough, you win, otherwise you're punished".

But everything aside, even if the combat system isn't great now, I hope that they stick with it for future installments. With some tweaking, I think it could be really good...of course, even though I love the FF games, I always hated the random encounter aspect.
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Postby Sarvis » Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:26 pm

Branthur wrote:I've really enjoyed it so far...I think I'm just about done with the game, though I've largely ignored the Hunting minigame, etc, and mainly just dealt with the main quest.

I use 2-4 gambits total on any given character, mainly just to toss a heal on someone low hp, and to have the party attack the same monster that the leader is attacking. I have a couple people set with gambits to toss firaga at things that are weak to fire, etc, but that's about it.

Only once did I have to "grind" xp, and rarely have I had a problem with money. Sure, I haven't been able to afford the top tier stuff for EVERYONE in the party, but I'm not going without by any extent.

Not to say that the combat system doesn't have problems...it certainly does. I do dislike what a few people have mentioned already about not being able to set a gambit to cast esuna on someone who has 3+ status ailments, and sometimes the AI is a bit dumb, but mainly only run into that when dealing with guest characters that you can't take over manual control for some of the big fights. With exception to the big fights (which do remain quite difficult through the game btw, no matter how well you're set), the shear amount of RUNNING you have to do does get a bit tedious, fighting the same monsters over and over again...sure, you can run, but then you don't get the LP for it, which was partly intended I think, and I don't really agree with. A few of the puzzles are set to just be "if you guess lucky enough, you win, otherwise you're punished".

But everything aside, even if the combat system isn't great now, I hope that they stick with it for future installments. With some tweaking, I think it could be really good...of course, even though I love the FF games, I always hated the random encounter aspect.


Oh god no! I'm ambivalent about random encounters, but there's better ways of dealing with it than a non-interactive combat system! I'd rather they just went full action and gave me some God of War style gameplay... heh.
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Postby Silverast Rubicyn » Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:02 pm

I'm not very far in, but I'm enjoying FFXII so far. I'm enjoying the story, and the graphics are great. I am on the fence about the battle system/license board though, as others have said.

I have it on hold atm, been playing FFIII DS and plan on finishing that before finishing up FFXII. By then I'll have moved and have money for a Wii, and then I'll start in on Zelda :)
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Postby Gormal » Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:54 pm

I read that while the director of Vagrant Story, FFT, etc began on the project, he was fired a while ago (sadly).

I tried to give the gambit system a chance, taking into account that its going to be far less customizable than a zMud trigger set. If you were hoping for this kind of system, I think you were way off. So far I've found it useful for general walking around, but like others have said, I tend to directly control my characters on boss battles.

The game itself seems pretty easy, though I've gotten my ass kicked a few times doing some of the hunts (fuck a cluckatrice). I'm keeping all of my characters at relatively the same level which I know is severely hampering my ability to destroy everything in sight, but I'm having fun actively playing 6 characters at once; switching around during combat.

I think that the license board needs to be more spread out, letting me send a character down a progression, but not as restricted as the sphere system. I'm getting frustrated too with random skills in the way of the ones I want.

I haven't been using the Mist ability at all really, just because I've heard that it can make the game incredibly easy.


I didn't really enjoy FFX that much, I hated 9, I inexplicably like 8, like 7, and love both games released in the US on SNES. Maybe I'm just a meganerd, but I like all of the fanservice that was done in this game to the SNES ones.


My problem with a lack of save crystals is because I can't just pause my game and leave it sitting there when I leave the space.
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Postby Sarvis » Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:29 pm

Gormal wrote:The game itself seems pretty easy, though I've gotten my ass kicked a few times doing some of the hunts (fuck a cluckatrice).


The lesson Cluckatrice teaches is that they do not give you level appropriate Hunts. You'll get like three Mark V hunts at one point, before you've even seen a Mark IV... and when you can barely beat Mark III's.

I don't know why, it's kinda gay if you ask me.

I'm keeping all of my characters at relatively the same level which I know is severely hampering my ability to destroy everything in sight,


Nah, you don't want several characters to fall behind... they are backup. I keep Vaan in party at all times as he's the main character, but everyone else switches out when they get 1 level above the others.

I haven't been using the Mist ability at all really, just because I've heard that it can make the game incredibly easy.


Well, when fighting the second judge I ued it, and took him down to 1/4 his health with one Mist combo. Good thing though, because I think he would have kicked my ass otherwise...

Maybe I'm just a meganerd, but I like all of the fanservice that was done in this game to the SNES ones.


Hrm... other than the intro music from FF1, and the crystal theme from FF2/4j I haven't noticed anything?

Surprising that you didn't like 9 if you like the old school references in this one!

My problem with a lack of save crystals is because I can't just pause my game and leave it sitting there when I leave the space.


Agreed, not that I have your issues... but frankly these days any RPG should let you do a save state so you can walk away. I don't have the time to sit there navigating a dungeon for three hours, and it sucks having to run back when you need to go to bed or company comes over.
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Postby Gormal » Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:45 pm

Sarvis wrote:Surprising that you didn't like 9 if you like the old school references in this one!


My initial feelings about 9 were exactly this, however once I saw how the game catered to someone about 8 years old, it lost a lot of appeal. Plus the whole question/answer thing really ground my gears.
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Postby Gormal » Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:52 pm

Silverast Rubicyn wrote:I have it on hold atm, been playing FFIII DS


(Hijacking my own thread bitches!)

Ed: How do you like this? I was going to order it, but I've got the new Mana game in the mail and was holding off.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:58 am

So, longest mist chain?

12 here!
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Postby Lilira » Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:06 am

Ambar wrote:Arilin WAS playing it til he got his Wii yesterday .. *sigh*


Ummm....

BAHAHAHAHA

Sorry.. leftover laughs about a game console named Wee.
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Postby Sarvis » Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:30 am

Arilin Nydelahar wrote:So, longest mist chain?

12 here!


6. But I've only even used it three times, and the first two I had no idea what was going on!
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Postby Ambar » Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:38 pm

Lilira shame on you!!

*LOL*


Why is it called that!!
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Postby Silverast Rubicyn » Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:55 pm

Gormal wrote:
Silverast Rubicyn wrote:I have it on hold atm, been playing FFIII DS


(Hijacking my own thread bitches!)

Ed: How do you like this? I was going to order it, but I've got the new Mana game in the mail and was holding off.


I'm enjoying it, its very reminiscent of oldschool FF games. It goes from easy to hard pretty fast. The story isn't overly intricate, but I'm enjoying it. I'd probably be playing FFXII a bit more but since FFIII is mobile I have much more time to play while at work and weekends when I'm away from home.

I also have the Mana game, and I enjoyed that too ... I just stopped when I got to a part that wanted me to revisit old places I'd already beaten. I'll pick it up when I finish all the other RPG's going on!

/rant

So yea, definately pick up FFIII if your a fan of the old FF games Jake, you'll enjoy it. The graphics rock.
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Postby Ragorn » Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:06 pm

FFIII is one of the better FF games, and the first game to use the job system. It's certainly more entertaining than a lot of the bloated graphical demos they put on the Playstation :(
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Postby Xisiqomelir » Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:36 pm

Ambar wrote:Why is it called that!!


Linka

Wii sounds like 'we', which emphasizes that the console is for everyone. Wii can easily be remembered by people around the world, no matter what language they speak. No confusion. No need to abbreviate. Just Wii.
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:16 pm

Just got it last night and so far I like it, but I'm a huge FF nerd. Loved all the old SNES ones and bought all the PS remakes too. Really liked 9 cuz the story rocked and the ending was so mushy (fuck you Gormal).


Will see how it goes after some time playing it, btw how is the FF and RPG games on the DS? I've considered buying one but been putting it off.
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Furry Alert!

Postby Gormal » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:00 pm

Tanji only liked 9 because he's a fucking furry and Zidnae's tail gets him all hot and bothered.
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Postby Lilira » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:55 pm

Ambar wrote:Lilira shame on you!!

*LOL*


Why is it called that!!


No idea, but that's the way the execs at Microsoft or whoever put it out say it.. I remember reading a CAD comic or news or something where Tim was making fun of it.

Look.. Xisi answered it though.
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Postby Silverast Rubicyn » Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:48 am

Tanji Smanji wrote:Just got it last night and so far I like it, but I'm a huge FF nerd. Loved all the old SNES ones and bought all the PS remakes too. Really liked 9 cuz the story rocked and the ending was so mushy (fuck you Gormal).


Will see how it goes after some time playing it, btw how is the FF and RPG games on the DS? I've considered buying one but been putting it off.


I've had a DS for a lil bit now, and for the most part there were no real RPG's out for it, until the past month or two. Now theres the Mana game, Magical Starsign, and FF3, all of which look great and have good gameplay.

Tanji, if your considering getting a DS, PM me, I have some info you'd probably like to know before you get one that I shouldn't post on a public forum :)

<3
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:12 pm

After more playtime I have to say that I approve of this game. I actually had one of my chars train my party earlier. Brought a tear to my eye.
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Postby Sarvis » Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:42 pm

Tanji Smanji wrote:After more playtime I have to say that I approve of this game. I actually had one of my chars train my party earlier. Brought a tear to my eye.


You mean FF3?
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:22 am

Sarvis wrote:
Tanji Smanji wrote:After more playtime I have to say that I approve of this game. I actually had one of my chars train my party earlier. Brought a tear to my eye.


You mean FF3?


Coulda sworn the title of the thread was FF12....
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Postby Sarvis » Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:28 am

Well, Gormal hijacked his own thread to talk about FF3... and I haven't had any of my characters train the party yet, so I wasn't sure which you were talking about. Sorry!

When does this training thing happen?
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Postby Gormal » Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:35 am

Basch running a train on everyone? I think that Baltheir might swing that way for kicks, and I'm sure Vaan would let him he's a bit light in the loafers methinks.
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:38 am

Amalthia in the sewers sometimes runs down a ramp and aggros those freakin ghosts, then drags like 8 of 'em back to the group.

All in all its really fun, haven't been able to get into RPG's like I used to till now.
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