For all you military types (not an argument thread)

Archived discussion from Toril-2.
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For all you military types (not an argument thread)

Postby Kifle » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:23 am

Ok, recently I was told by this guy I know that he's being shipped off in December to an undisclosed territory in the middle east for clandestine operations. From what I was told, he is part of the intelligence community and will be working within the enemy network to gain intelligence. Now, this guy does not speak a lick of Arabic (or any other language besides English) and he's in the reserves. To me, this smells like a huge pile of BS. I'd imagine they'd use the CIA for this for one thing -- at the very least, some form of full-time military/government personel. Also, to get these types of missions, I would also assume that to even qualify, you'd have to be fluent in the native language already (which can take years) instead of being put through a, what, 3 month crash course?

Anyway, I think this guy is completely BSing shit to look cool at work, so, for you types that know the innerworkings of the military, what's your analysis?
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Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:04 am

Kifle, my analysis is that he should be working for the department of labor, or the department of transportation and needs to attend an emergency conference for recent legislation x.

LOOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS

But seriously, there are many mundane jobs within the intelligence community. From the guy that just stares at aerial photographs of shrubs all day long, to the guy that sends and redirects letters, there is a whole host of necessary semi-skilled support staff to do things like listen in on cell phone conversations, keep dots on maps where the should be, or make the coffee and ensure the door stays closed during shifts.

You don't need to speak arabic to take phone calls from intelligence officers attached to various units on the ground to recieve their assessments, then type them and email them for review.

Hell, reservists usually are ideal for this type of work, because they typically have similar skillsets outside of the military.


So... why do you want to steal this guy's thunder? Let'em have an ego boost. Being stuck behind that computer and scrutinized by bitter and angry officers for 15 months will really take it down a notch.
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Postby Kegor » Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:16 am

There is all sorts of types of intellegence gathering. Sounds to me like he is going to be involved in some sort of surveillance, recon, or scouting missions. Maybe something like watching hot roadways from nearby buildings for insurgents setting up IED's etc. I know there are people that do that. If he is talking like he's going to be doing under cover covert infiltration of enemy infrastructure, then there is a very high probability he is full of it.
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Postby Gormal » Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:46 am

Just because you have no clue about the intelligence community doesn't mean his claims are bogus. In actuality, his presence is perfectly justifiable regardless of his language skills. You're right in thinking that he's talking his role up a bit to sound cool, as much of what he'll be doing is boring and repetitive, but it's nonetheless an important role for someone to fill.

Edit: I'm glad we have Teflor the Authority here to comment on the intricacies of the US intelligence community.
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Postby Ambar » Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:30 am

hehe my first thought was that every unit needs a janitor, LOL

Hell i never spoke a bit of any of the languages of any of the countries I visisted .. err welll i do speak fairly decent English and was ok when visiting Scotland and England

Cool jobs are over rated!!!
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Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:39 pm

Gormal wrote:Edit: I'm glad we have Teflor the Authority here to comment on the intricacies of the US intelligence community.


You are SO welcome. I could go on...
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Postby Sarvis » Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:48 pm

teflor the ranger wrote:
Gormal wrote:Edit: I'm glad we have Teflor the Authority here to comment on the intricacies of the US intelligence community.


You are SO welcome. I could go on...


Maybe next you can elaborate on the use of shovels against heavily armored vehicles which can kill you from at least 500m away.
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Postby Shar » Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:48 pm

While I'm no expert, I did grow up surrounded by the military in many, many ways. I won't go into how here, but my 2c are:

If he was being sent off to some secret op somewhere, 1) he would NOT tell you about it in any way and if he did, 2) he'd have to be an utter idiot to talk about it w/o the OK from his CO. Pretty safe to assume he wouldn't get that.

He's probably going to fill the position of the tank-scraper out of Fallujia! :)
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Postby Birile » Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:33 pm

Whatever his capacity, be sure to thank him for stepping up to the plate for his country in a time of war. :)
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Postby Kifle » Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:16 pm

Jaznolg wrote:If he is talking like he's going to be doing under cover covert infiltration of enemy infrastructure, then there is a very high probability he is full of it.


this is what I was talking about. Like actually going into the city, working with natives (anti-american) and gathering intel. I am quite aware that he could be qualified to look at pictures, mop the floor, get phone calls and all that shit. I'm not an idiot. Jesus Christ, people. I swear, some of you just like to find a reason to bitch at somebody or show superiority for some odd reason. Find some self-esteem so we can have a friendly chat once in a while.

And, yes Birilie, while I do respect most that go over there and do the shit I refuse to do, I will not respect them all. I do not respect the ones that want to "kill all the terrorists" and "blow shit up." I do respect the ones that are civlized and understand that killing, if they should have to do it, is an unfortunate consequence of war. The ones that care about the people and aren't going over there to "shoot some sand niggers." I know quite a few from both camps. My father and all of my uncles were in vietnam, and I respect every one of them for it because they did so to serve their country and not to kill shit...

This guy is one of those, I want to kill shit. The, I'm going into danger, feel sorry for me. The, I'm going to Iraq for secret spy shit and I might not make it back, can I get a fuck before I go type of guys. I personally hate these people and love to call them out.

So, more precisely, would the military use a reservist with no knowledge of the language, no furthur study on the social structure (except what is taught to all military), and 6 months or so of being in iraq guarding a base have the qualifications to be selected for the type of duty quoted above... secret spy shit where he infiltrates questionable groups, gets in with the natives, gains trust, etc. etc.
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Postby Sarvis » Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:53 pm

Kifle wrote: secret spy shit where he infiltrates questionable groups, gets in with the natives, gains trust, etc. etc.


Not to be racist, but the first question we need to ask is: Is he brown?

If not, then no.
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Postby Cordan » Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:04 pm

Kifle wrote:So, more precisely, would the military use a reservist with no knowledge of the language, no furthur study on the social structure (except what is taught to all military), and 6 months or so of being in iraq guarding a base have the qualifications to be selected for the type of duty quoted above... secret spy shit where he infiltrates questionable groups, gets in with the natives, gains trust, etc. etc.


I understood what you were getting at. And my response, along with that of one of my good friends who's a marine is probably not.
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Postby Kifle » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:01 pm

Cordan wrote:
Kifle wrote:So, more precisely, would the military use a reservist with no knowledge of the language, no furthur study on the social structure (except what is taught to all military), and 6 months or so of being in iraq guarding a base have the qualifications to be selected for the type of duty quoted above... secret spy shit where he infiltrates questionable groups, gets in with the natives, gains trust, etc. etc.


I understood what you were getting at. And my response, along with that of one of my good friends who's a marine is probably not.


Some people obviously didn't and apparently were looking for a reason to flame... dunno. Must be lack of goat-lovin' on the boats working at a man's nerves or something.

So, yeah, thanks for some informed responses here guys. Was what I was looking for.

Sarvis: He's white as white can be... which was one of the first things that tipped me off to BS.
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Postby Ambar » Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:33 pm

As one of those who has BEEN there (no it was not my cousin, it was ME) I can tell you that there are screenings for any type job you do in the military .. Yes, people do fall thru the cracks, but for the most part if he is a BS artist they wouldnt select him for any type of secret op kinda job

Those type people are TARGETS for other countries .. those are the people that get called on and become informants ..

Get him drunk and he will tell you anything kind of people

So he may be going again to guard the gates (there isnt much training involved there, often that is a shit job for junior people) .. you just dont know WHAT training he has had unless he is telling you everything ...

My uncles were Marines, my dad was a weekend warrior who got to go to Germany in WW2, my cousin and sister were sailors, ooo and my 18 year old cousin is an airhead now .. does that make me a qualified response? *grin* sorry that was just funny :P
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Postby amolol » Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:44 am

my self not being in the military but both my brothers all my uncles and my father being a marine and having a military up-bringing... i have had a little experience.....mostly from my father...

first of all if the guy was trained to gather top secret intel... even by our great upstanding us government.... he would not be blabbing it about... unless his name was george W bush.....

if he is in intel... probably a paper pusher... if he is in surbeilance... probably the guy who reloads the film in the camera/radio communication

slap him in the head tell him to grow a brain and serve our country... the military isnt to make others feel sorry for you because you are going to war... its to protect our way of life...

side note tho i respect the soldiers fighting over seas for my rights ans an american to type this... the war is bogus and our american sons and daughters are being used for selfish reasons... they are over there for the wrong reasons. both my brothers are going to be re-stationed in a few months to my knowledge.

last time my brother shaun was there he had a VERY VERY close call with a mortar.... i have pictured of the barracks where he was when the mortar hit it. if anyone wants to see how close......

that being said i support the troops not the reasons...
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Postby Gormal » Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:23 pm

Maybe if you were more liberal with your use of the ellipsis you could present a more vague and uninformed opinion.... I doubt it though. I might also suggest that you refrain from posting under the influence of whatever you've been quite obviously using of late when you visit the forums.

If you're really interested in what people will be doing while serving their country, its important to know their AFSC/MOS/Rate. While anyone in military, can be assigned to sentry duties or other mundane tasks, the likelihood that they will be deployed without performing the job for which they were trained is small. The military intelligence community is unique from the rest of the armed forces in that their directives come from civilian agencies as often as from military.

Because of the duel chains of command and of course the classification restrictions, the vast majority of military personnel have virtually no clue about what is going on behind those closed doors. Unless your father had a role in the intelligence community equivalent to what we now term "SCI" he had very little "experience" to pass on to you. The narrow view that you have of intelligence gathering shows me that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

Kifle: I'll say again that this guy's story sounds completely legit even if he has talked it up a bit.
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Postby amolol » Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:08 pm

3 hours of sleep and 13 hours on my feet cooking and cleaning will make me use more ellipsis.

thank you for your input gormal. however im not as uninformed as you think. it just seems to me that the guy would be embellishing allot. at no point did i say he did not work in MI i just said that it more than likely isnt as top secret as he is saying it is. if it was i doubt he would be blabbing it to everyone. the guy is doin it for attention.

thank you for picking my post out among all the others of the same oppinion to flame. very much appreciated.
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Postby teflor the ranger » Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:21 am

amolol wrote:however im not as uninformed as you think.


hmm.
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Postby teflor the ranger » Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:23 am

Gormal wrote:duel chains of command


I always imagined that was going on behind closed doors. Pistols at high noon!
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Postby Ragorn » Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:36 am

Gormal wrote:Maybe if you were more liberal with your use of the ellipsis you could present a more vague and uninformed opinion.... I doubt it though.

Liberal means... he would be using... more of them.

Damn defeatocrat libruls.

Ooh sorry, wrong thread.
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Postby Raiwen » Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:52 am

if he really was doing secret spy shit, you'd be the LAST person to know about it.

'nuff said.

hell.. you just posted it on this BBS. Duh! Of cource he wouldn't tell you.

My buddy's brother was a navy seal.. I guess. I know he went to seal training and was still in active duty. When he was at home and we'd all be sitting around the apartment, he'd get a call. He left the next day for weeks at a time. We'd ask where he went when he got back. He'd always answer: "Oh, just killing some president." We'd all get a laugh, but we were never sure if he was serious or not. Regardless, the answer was always the same, and none of us knew where he went once he left town.

that's the just way it is. If anyone tells you otherwise, they're full of shit.
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Re: For all you military types (not an argument thread)

Postby Llaaldara » Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:51 pm

Kifle wrote: From what I was told, he is part of the intelligence community and will be working within the enemy network to gain intelligence. Now, this guy does not speak a lick of Arabic (or any other language besides English) and he's in the reserves.


Translation - I am being transferred to an overseas location to be assigned many top secret doodies while on active latrine detail.
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Postby Zabam » Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:00 pm

Important to know job specialty and then one can try to discern what he'll be doing and who he'll be doing it with.

Being in the Reserves, he might be in a Civil Affairs Unit. So he could be doing his intell mission though the backside of a donkey, digging a well, or fixing teeth (humans and animals), etc.

Also can be electronic or voice intercept. He wouldn't need to know the lingo, just be able to intercept transmissions for someone else to analyze.

I seriously doubt he is going to integrate with the indiginous population, especially the bad-guys.

Or it can be a good "war" story for the chicks in college.
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Postby Gormal » Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:42 am

Raiwen wrote:My buddy's brother was a navy seal.. I guess.



SEAL operations are incredibly well protected. I'm sure Ambar can tell you about times where the SEALs come onboard to do training and the entire crew is restricted inside the ship while they train regardless of your clearance. Those guys take OPSEC to the limit, and justifiably so.

Zabam - Thanks for restoring my faith that not everyone assumes intelligence gathering means shaken vodka martinis for lunch and presidential assassinations for dinner.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIGINT
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Postby Ambar » Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:03 pm

come on Jake we arent informed enough! We were only THERE, we dont have our info from second and third parties :P

Spent a LOT of time with various SEAL teams (5,6,7 depending what part of the world I was in) .. great guys, can REALLY hold their liquor, LOL... can party their behinds off one night and be so drunk to the point of power puking, get up the next day and run 10 miles with a pack in the heat of Bahrain

soo many stories, so little text time

whoops derail sorry :P back to your regularly scheduled programs ...
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Postby Zabam » Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:18 pm

Have to agree with their ability to hold their booze. It wasn't until after I retired (Army) and started a new "life", that I had the pleasure to integrate and work with some SEAL MOB Teams. Great bunch of guys, not dissimilar from our SF in thought and outlook. They impressed me that they could drink Guiness as well as this old Army guy -I'm sure they got up the next morning in much better shape that I did-
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Postby Gormal » Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:13 pm

I had more trouble keeping up with retired British soldiers and sailors than special forces guys. Those guys might be old, but holy hell can they drink.
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Postby Zabam » Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:27 pm

Yeah...Brits and Aussies.

The old farts had more time to practice :twisted:
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Postby Kifle » Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:18 pm

Gormal wrote:Zabam - Thanks for restoring my faith that not everyone assumes intelligence gathering means shaken vodka martinis for lunch and presidential assassinations for dinner.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIGINT


Wow, get off your high horse already, Jesus... You're the one that assumed everybody but you thought that's what intelligence was; however, the fact remains, that isn't the case. I didn't say, nor did many other people, that intelligence gathering only pertained to 007 type shit. I asked a specific question asking whether or not he was qualified, or the U.S. Army would consider him qualified, for the 007 type shit. I never once infered that that was all there was to the intelligence community -- you did.

Now hop down from the horse... it seems like the air is too thin for your comprehension up there. Either that or you just really feel like being an upity asshole.
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Postby Gormal » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:21 am

Your original statement:

From what I was told, he is part of the intelligence community and will be working within the enemy network to gain intelligence.

Jaznolg said:

If he is talking like he's going to be doing under cover covert infiltration of enemy infrastructure, then there is a very high probability he is full of it.

To which you said:

this is what I was talking about. Like actually going into the city, working with natives (anti-american) and gathering intel. I am quite aware that he could be qualified to look at pictures, mop the floor, get phone calls and all that shit. I'm not an idiot. Jesus Christ, people. I swear, some of you just like to find a reason to bitch at somebody or show superiority for some odd reason. Find some self-esteem so we can have a friendly chat once in a while.


You've been on the defensive from the beginning here, and you failed to clairify what you were talking about in your initial question. Zabam was the first person to really pin down a reasonable and intelligent suggestion of what he might be doing. The word 'network' is incredibly vague and misleading, and you never really quoted anything he told you. You aren't looking for an honest answer; you're looking for people to agree with you that this guy is full of shit so you can play the condescending know-it-all.

"I personally hate these people and love to call them out. "

Don't get upset because someone with actual experience in foreign intelligence collection decides to knock you off your high horse. Just because this guy might be an asshole, and might be talking himself up doesn't mean he's completely blowing smoke up your ass. I provided you with what we call "counterpoint", and you'd just rather not hear it. You obviously had already passed judgement on this guy, so it doesn't matter anyway.
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Postby Tasan » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:32 pm

Carl?! Is it that time of the month again already?!
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Postby Kifle » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:44 pm

Gormal wrote:Your original statement:

From what I was told, he is part of the intelligence community and will be working within the enemy network to gain intelligence.

Jaznolg said:

If he is talking like he's going to be doing under cover covert infiltration of enemy infrastructure, then there is a very high probability he is full of it.

To which you said:

this is what I was talking about. Like actually going into the city, working with natives (anti-american) and gathering intel. I am quite aware that he could be qualified to look at pictures, mop the floor, get phone calls and all that shit. I'm not an idiot. Jesus Christ, people. I swear, some of you just like to find a reason to bitch at somebody or show superiority for some odd reason. Find some self-esteem so we can have a friendly chat once in a while.


You've been on the defensive from the beginning here, and you failed to clairify what you were talking about in your initial question. Zabam was the first person to really pin down a reasonable and intelligent suggestion of what he might be doing. The word 'network' is incredibly vague and misleading, and you never really quoted anything he told you. You aren't looking for an honest answer; you're looking for people to agree with you that this guy is full of shit so you can play the condescending know-it-all.

"I personally hate these people and love to call them out. "

Don't get upset because someone with actual experience in foreign intelligence collection decides to knock you off your high horse. Just because this guy might be an asshole, and might be talking himself up doesn't mean he's completely blowing smoke up your ass. I provided you with what we call "counterpoint", and you'd just rather not hear it. You obviously had already passed judgement on this guy, so it doesn't matter anyway.


Uh, look at my reply to Jaz again... I specifically stated what I was asking, and clarified what I was not asking for. Again, if you failed to read it the first and second times, here it is...

kifle wrote:this is what I was talking about. Like actually going into the city, working with natives (anti-american) and gathering intel.


from the same post

kifle wrote:So, more precisely, would the military use a reservist with no knowledge of the language, no furthur study on the social structure (except what is taught to all military), and 6 months or so of being in iraq guarding a base have the qualifications to be selected for the type of duty quoted above... secret spy shit where he infiltrates questionable groups, gets in with the natives, gains trust, etc. etc.


Now, here is what I said I would believe if the guy told me he was going to be doing... something I wouldn't see him lying about. Things that I was assuming people would not even bother commenting on because they give me a bit of credibility every now and again not to be a complete tard.

kifle wrote:I am quite aware that he could be qualified to look at pictures, mop the floor, get phone calls and all that shit. I'm not an idiot.



Then you show that you really don't read...

gormal wrote:Zabam was the first person to really pin down a reasonable and intelligent suggestion of what he might be doing.


Because there was teflor

teflor wrote:But seriously, there are many mundane jobs within the intelligence community. From the guy that just stares at aerial photographs of shrubs all day long, to the guy that sends and redirects letters, there is a whole host of necessary semi-skilled support staff to do things like listen in on cell phone conversations, keep dots on maps where the should be, or make the coffee and ensure the door stays closed during shifts.


Jaznolg

jaznolg wrote:There is all sorts of types of intellegence gathering. Sounds to me like he is going to be involved in some sort of surveillance, recon, or scouting missions. Maybe something like watching hot roadways from nearby buildings for insurgents setting up IED's etc.



Ambar

ambar wrote:hehe my first thought was that every unit needs a janitor, LOL


ambar wrote:So he may be going again to guard the gates


Then finally Zabam...

So, how exactly 1) did I not make myself clear, at least in my second post, about what I was asking about and how I was fully aware that it was not strictly 007 shit in the intelligence community? 2) Since everybody before you actually took time to use their brains and comprehend what I was asking for, while they gave their suggestions as to what he would probably be doing, they also said that they were aware he was not doing "spy" shit... how is it that you're the only one that wanted to flame because he saw something that wasn't clarified to the "T"?

Also, yes, network is a vague word... it's what the government has been using to describe a shit-ton of things these days. It has, unfortunately, worked it's way into my vocabulary; however, as the other posters have shown, it wasn't vague enough to not understand what I was asking for.

I was looking for an honest answer. You know why? Because I was fucking right, that's why. This jerk-off is talking himself up, and now I don't just have my suspisions telling me he's a liar. I have people who are aquainted with the military telling me he's almost positively lying.

Lastly, if he's not lying, he just jeopardized his mission and those serving with him by being a douche. So, either he's a lying douche, or a douche that jeopardizes his fellow military brothers'/sisters' lives because he wants to sound cool. Douche. Now I can call him a douche with gusto.

P.S.

Stop being a douche, gormal.
Last edited by Kifle on Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'

Kifle puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Thalidyrr tells you 'Yeah, you know, getting it like a jackhammer wears you out.'

Teflor "You can beat a tank with a shovel!!1!1!!one!!1!uno!!"
Kifle
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Postby Kifle » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:47 pm

Tasan wrote:Carl?! Is it that time of the month again already?!


No sir. I just don't like being treated like an ignorant twit because some douchy semen chooses to read what he wants into my questions just to flame me... then goes on to create reasons to flame me, and pretty much devalue the statements of the remaining posters in this thread.

I love you doug!
Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'

Kifle puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Thalidyrr tells you 'Yeah, you know, getting it like a jackhammer wears you out.'

Teflor "You can beat a tank with a shovel!!1!1!!one!!1!uno!!"

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