The USSR

Archived discussion from Toril-2.
teflor the ranger
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Postby teflor the ranger » Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:44 am

Sarvis wrote:
I know I'm going to regret this but...

Isn't the government's purpose to prevent the execution of force against an individual? How is that NOT taking care of that individual?


If the government's purpose is to prevent the execution of force against an individual, then why is the government constantly executing force against individuals? I'm not sure I understand exactly what point it is you are trying to make?
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Postby Sarvis » Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:46 am

Literacy would help, perhaps.
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Postby teflor the ranger » Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:58 am

Sarvis wrote:Literacy would help, perhaps.


It would help you. I was hoping your question had more substance than... nothing.
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Postby Sarvis » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:15 am

It did. Literacy would have revealed so.
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Postby teflor the ranger » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:22 am

Sarvis wrote:It did. Literacy would have revealed so.


It doesn't. And you don't. If you did, clarify.
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Postby Kifle » Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:02 am

teflor the ranger wrote:
Kifle wrote:
teflor the ranger wrote:
Sarvis wrote:I know I'm going to regret this but...

Isn't the government's sole purpose (that you'd admit) to prevent the execution of force against an individual? How is that NOT taking care of that individual?


Sorry Sarvis, but I'm waiting for Kifle's reply. I want to give him at least a chance to respond unmolested and give him a chance to actually display his knowledge.


No thanks. I find its easier to laugh you off than get frustrated at your unwarrented arrogance. You're an idiot.

P.S.

Lol


Unfortunatly, Sarvis, I apologize for making you wait for Kifle's intellectual cowardice. Cowardice comes from those who had nothing to defend in the beginning.


Do George Bush's speech writers also write your posts? Are you going to call me a cut and runner next? Lol

P.S.

Loling even more. Thanks.
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Postby teflor the ranger » Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:23 am

Kifle wrote:Do George Bush's speech writers also write your posts? Are you going to call me a cut and runner next? Lol

P.S.

Loling even more. Thanks.


Good god you're boring.
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Postby Kifle » Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:30 am

teflor the ranger wrote:
Kifle wrote:Do George Bush's speech writers also write your posts? Are you going to call me a cut and runner next? Lol

P.S.

Loling even more. Thanks.


Good god you're boring.


What happend to the post you deleted? Are you going to declare "Mission Accomplished" now?
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Postby teflor the ranger » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:46 pm

Do not ignore governments that are held to responsibility by outside forces.

- Such as the last years of the Qing dynasty under the Boxer Protocal.

- Occupational governments of invaded countries.

- Colonial governments that have to make due consideration to their parent countries.

- Governments who rely entirely upon another country for their defense and security.

You see, the issue with Locke's philosophy (he was a fool) was that it deals mostly with virgin western ideas on governments in a complete vacuum. It's about as good an idea as trying to immitate a truly free market (which, surprise, is another virgin western idea that requires a complete vacuum to be implemented).

The governmental equasion considers many more contracts than the social contract a government has with its people - unless it exists in faroffideallandia. The primary function of government is care for it's society, not for the individual. Here are several examples that should make it quite clear:

The Third Reich

The German people were quite happy with the Third Reich for a while, as they brought economic prosperity and great security by means of military strength to the country. Had the US, UK, and Russia not been involved in their affairs, the German people would have had their social contract fully fufilled.

The government of the Nazi party decided to care for it's society by eliminating millions of individuals under their authority.

CCCP

The Russian people had fairly good morale and gave their support to the communist party. The CCCP fufilled their social contract with their people for the most part, and the people of Russia gave the CCCP their support to the point where it could rival the United States of America as a world power.

"No man, no problem." - Joseph Stalin

Clearly, this government took care of society instead of individuals. Joseph Stalin ended up caring for his society by eliminating millions of individuals under the authority fo his government.

Allied-Administered Japan

This government was established to administer the occupation of the Japanese people had a primary responsibility of preventing a Japanese uprising and the continuation of full war by the power. While this government, of course, was held to a social contract with the Japanese people, they were also held to a contract with the Allied governments to hold tribunals for war crimes, and to prevent at all costs a japanese insurrection.

If necessary, this government was to terminate Japanese society.

The list goes on. It's unfortunate that some have developed such a narrow-minded view of the world that only works in total isolation.
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Postby Kifle » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:40 pm

Word?

P.S.

Lol
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Postby Birile » Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:25 pm

teflor the ranger wrote:It's unfortunate that some have developed such a narrow-minded view of the world that only works in total isolation.


U.S. circa 2001-2009 comes to mind.

Birile flees north!
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Postby Kifle » Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:45 pm

Birile wrote:
teflor the ranger wrote:It's unfortunate that some have developed such a narrow-minded view of the world that only works in total isolation.


U.S. circa 2001-2009 comes to mind.

Birile flees north!


Don't feed the animals! He almost left to find sustinance elsewhere...
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Postby teflor the ranger » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:55 pm

Kifle wrote:Don't feed the animals! He almost left to find sustinance elsewhere...


If I were here for sustinance, you would hardly do - intellectually or otherwise.
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Postby Kifle » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:57 pm

teflor the ranger wrote:
Kifle wrote:Don't feed the animals! He almost left to find sustinance elsewhere...


If I were here for sustinance, you would hardly do - intellectually or otherwise.


Or reading comprehension. Lol

P.s.

Do I have to say it?
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Postby teflor the ranger » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:59 pm

teflor the ranger wrote:If I were here for sustinance, you would hardly do - intellectually or otherwise.


Kifle wrote:Or reading comprehension. Lol

P.s.

Do I have to say it?


Indeed, you would hardly do if I were here for reading comprehension.

And, you did say it. Right after 'reading comprehension.


So, are you laughing at yourself, or what?
Last edited by teflor the ranger on Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Kifle » Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:05 am

teflor the ranger wrote:
Kifle wrote:
teflor the ranger wrote:
Kifle wrote:Don't feed the animals! He almost left to find sustinance elsewhere...


If I were here for sustinance, you would hardly do - intellectually or otherwise.


Or reading comprehension. Lol

P.s.

Do I have to say it?


If I were here for reading comprehension, I certainly wouldn't be getting enough from you.


Rofl! Go back and read and try to pick out what I was refering to as sustinance. This started out as being pretty fun for me, but now it's just getting sad -- sad like when you're watching a baby try to walk for the first time: No matter how hard it tries, it just keeps falling down... never realizing it doesn't have the muscle coordination to actually accomplish its goal.

However, I'm still loling because I like to see petulant assholes fail.
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Postby teflor the ranger » Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:12 am

teflor the ranger wrote:If I were here for sustinance, you would hardly do - intellectually or otherwise.


Your Reply:

Kifle wrote:Or reading comprehension. Lol

P.s.

Do I have to say it?


So, If I were here for reading comprehension, you would hardly do? Indeed.

And, you did say it. Right after you said 'reading comprehension.'

Kifle wrote:This started out as being pretty fun for me, but now it's just getting sad -- sad like when you're watching a baby try to walk for the first time: No matter how hard it tries, it just keeps falling down... never realizing it doesn't have the muscle coordination to actually accomplish its goal.

However, I'm still loling because I like to see petulant assholes fail.


So is someone videotaping you? Wow you're an idiot.
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Postby Kifle » Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:21 am

teflor the ranger wrote:
So is someone videotaping you? Wow you're an idiot.


OMFG Buuurn....










































... for a 3rd grader.

Lol

P.S.

As a preemptive strike: I know you are but what am I?
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Postby teflor the ranger » Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:22 am

:) Thanks Kifle. I was having a bad day but you really cheered me up. See you around.
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Postby Kifle » Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:42 am

teflor the ranger wrote::) Thanks Kifle. I was having a bad day but you really cheered me up. See you around.


Yeah, it's a known fact when you jingle something shiney infront of an illiterate idiot, they, for some reason, get a kick out of it. I consider what I do more of a social service than anything. Kind of like spending time with troubled teens or beding your mother.
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Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:06 pm

Kifle wrote:
teflor the ranger wrote::) Thanks Kifle. I was having a bad day but you really cheered me up. See you around.


Yeah, it's a known fact when you jingle something shiney infront of an illiterate idiot, they, for some reason, get a kick out of it. I consider what I do more of a social service than anything. Kind of like spending time with troubled teens or beding your mother.


You know, Kifle, if you get frustrated when you can't seem to argue with me, perhaps you should hold yourself responsible instead of others. I and others trying to discuss on the boards shouldn't have to suffer fools like you acting out because you're frustrated.

I'm not your wife/girlfriend/mother, so quit blaming me for everything. Yes, you are expected to have control over your own emotions. No, you cannot blame others for how you react to your own feelings.

You are responsible for how you act out. Cowboy the hell up and save your adolescent girl crying for your own time.
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Postby Kifle » Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:05 pm

teflor the ranger wrote:
Kifle wrote:
teflor the ranger wrote::) Thanks Kifle. I was having a bad day but you really cheered me up. See you around.


Yeah, it's a known fact when you jingle something shiney infront of an illiterate idiot, they, for some reason, get a kick out of it. I consider what I do more of a social service than anything. Kind of like spending time with troubled teens or beding your mother.


You know, Kifle, if you get frustrated when you can't seem to argue with me, perhaps you should hold yourself responsible instead of others. I and others trying to discuss on the boards shouldn't have to suffer fools like you acting out because you're frustrated.

I'm not your wife/girlfriend/mother, so quit blaming me for everything. Yes, you are expected to have control over your own emotions. No, you cannot blame others for how you react to your own feelings.

You are responsible for how you act out. Cowboy the hell up and save your adolescent girl crying for your own time.


Thanks Dr. Phil! Where can I pick up your next self-help book? Lol
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Postby daggaz » Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:44 pm

Spend some time in any Scandinavian country before you all go declaring the infallacies of a socialised economic and political system. It most obviously works, and I have to say, it feels really nice as well.

Minimum wage here is 20 bucks an hour (and rising due to the current American financial system) and business is booming. There are plenty of jobs everywhere. If anything, raising the wage just attracts more workers to the force, which is a good thing. And that money gets spent. Increasing the circulation of money is a good thing. And it goes directly into the hands of those who need it most. Helping people is a GOOD thing. There are a lot of good things about socialism that are innaccurately described in the mainstream view over there.

Those economics courses are heavy on the political end of things, for obvious reasons. There are contested issues and divides in the lines of thinking. Wars are waged over these differences. To think this doesn't have a discernable effect on your education is rather naive. Chomsky wrote quite a good piece on it, I thought, in "Understanding Power."

Anyhow, I worked for years in the states at minimum wage. It sucked. Now I live here and pay taxes thru my nose but I have more personal wealth than ever before anyways, and life is grand. You couldn't pay me to go back to the American system at this point, even tho I do miss my family. The difference is that big.
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Postby Corth » Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:11 am

Thats all well and good, Daggaz, but socialism is an affront to human dignity. :)
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

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Postby Kifle » Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:27 am

Corth wrote:Thats all well and good, Daggaz, but socialism is an affront to human dignity. :)


You speak as if dignity is defined in universal terms...
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Postby teflor the ranger » Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:17 am

daggaz wrote:Spend some time in any Scandinavian country before you all go declaring the infallacies of a socialised economic and political system. It most obviously works, and I have to say, it feels really nice as well.

Minimum wage here is 20 bucks an hour (and rising due to the current American financial system) and business is booming. There are plenty of jobs everywhere. If anything, raising the wage just attracts more workers to the force, which is a good thing. And that money gets spent. Increasing the circulation of money is a good thing. And it goes directly into the hands of those who need it most. Helping people is a GOOD thing. There are a lot of good things about socialism that are innaccurately described in the mainstream view over there.

Those economics courses are heavy on the political end of things, for obvious reasons. There are contested issues and divides in the lines of thinking. Wars are waged over these differences. To think this doesn't have a discernable effect on your education is rather naive. Chomsky wrote quite a good piece on it, I thought, in "Understanding Power."

Anyhow, I worked for years in the states at minimum wage. It sucked. Now I live here and pay taxes thru my nose but I have more personal wealth than ever before anyways, and life is grand. You couldn't pay me to go back to the American system at this point, even tho I do miss my family. The difference is that big.


I don't know Daggaz. While your personal story is almost inspirational, and by the way, congratulations on your success, I find it very, very hard to be moved by your one anecdote. Especially when you toss it amongst the crowd of anecdotes of people living under socialistic socieites.

Denmark is a very, very small country with a population of only five million that boasts near religious homogeneity (with a VAST majority fo the population being Evangelical Lutheran) and a tiny population growth rate of 0.00311. It enjoys many unique political advantages due to its geographic location and the willingness of the EU and US to provide support and defense, and an interest in the well-being of the state.

It does not compare very strongly with the stories of many other socialistic states in history past - the USSR, Cultural Revolution China, amongst others.

I try not to confuse a grand success story of a small country in a naturally, politically, and historically advantageous position as a realistic solution to any other country in the world.

Especially because much of Denmark's (and the rest of Europe) success depended upon the willingness of the United States to liberate Europe, assist in rebuilding, and provide for its security after World War II.
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Postby Sarvis » Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:48 am

teflor the ranger wrote:It does not compare very strongly with the stories of many other socialistic states in history past - the USSR, Cultural Revolution China, amongst others.


Yep! We all know that a high minimum wage and universal healthcare is what made the USSR and China suck so much!
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Postby Kifle » Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:54 am

Sarvis wrote:
teflor the ranger wrote:It does not compare very strongly with the stories of many other socialistic states in history past - the USSR, Cultural Revolution China, amongst others.


Yep! We all know that a high minimum wage and universal healthcare is what made the USSR and China suck so much!


Why would he name countries like Norway, France, England, etc. that might show how socialism might actually do good? Then he would actually have to make a formulated argument you can't find as easily on Google.
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Postby Sarvis » Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:36 am

Kifle wrote:
Sarvis wrote:
teflor the ranger wrote:It does not compare very strongly with the stories of many other socialistic states in history past - the USSR, Cultural Revolution China, amongst others.


Yep! We all know that a high minimum wage and universal healthcare is what made the USSR and China suck so much!


Why would he name countries like Norway, France, England, etc. that might show how socialism might actually do good? Then he would actually have to make a formulated argument you can't find as easily on Google.


For that matter he could have pointed out some of the bad things like England's high unemployment rate and actually had a relevant point.
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Postby avak » Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:02 pm

Especially because much of Denmark's (and the rest of Europe) success depended upon the willingness of the United States to liberate Europe, assist in rebuilding, and provide for its security after World War II.


Good point, because we all know they weren't prosperous until the US showed up. Oh, don't rewind the tape too far or you'll have to watch France save our collective asses in the Revolutionary War.

btw, this thread is best of web.
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Postby Kifle » Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:24 pm

avak wrote:
Especially because much of Denmark's (and the rest of Europe) success depended upon the willingness of the United States to liberate Europe, assist in rebuilding, and provide for its security after World War II.


Good point, because we all know they weren't prosperous until the US showed up. Oh, don't rewind the tape too far or you'll have to watch France save our collective asses in the Revolutionary War.

btw, this thread is best of web.


Or the fact that that the EU has a collective army so they don't have to spend as much as us on defense.
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Postby Corth » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:32 pm

Kifle wrote:Or the fact that that the EU has a collective army so they don't have to spend as much as us on defense.


Hrmm.. I wonder how that will work out the next time they start warring with each other (as they have done periodically since recorded history). Oh wait, that could never happen nowadays! Snicker.

Europe is a pipe dream and socialist countries will all fail, each in its own time.
Last edited by Corth on Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sarvis » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:36 pm

Corth wrote:
Kifle wrote:Or the fact that that the EU has a collective army so they don't have to spend as much as us on defense.


Hrmm.. I wonder how that will work out the next time they start warring with each other (as they have done periodically since recorded history). Oh wait, that could never happen nowadays! Snicker.

Europe is a pipe dream. Socialist countries will all fail, each in its own time.


Yeah, it would be impossible for a loose confederation of states to come together under a common government. It'll never happen.

Also a better statement would be: Countries will fail, each in its own time.
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Postby Corth » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:42 pm

Hey Sarvis, not much more than 100 years ago this loose confederation of states, with a much stronger central authority, and a lot more in common culturally, was warring with each other. Europe, on the other hand, last warred between each other only 60 or so years ago.. if you don't count what happened to Yugoslavia. I expect to see them warring with each other again within my lifetime, and I am curious how they will utilize their shared army!
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Postby Kifle » Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:41 pm

Corth wrote:Hey Sarvis, not much more than 100 years ago this loose confederation of states, with a much stronger central authority, and a lot more in common culturally, was warring with each other. Europe, on the other hand, last warred between each other only 60 or so years ago.. if you don't count what happened to Yugoslavia. I expect to see them warring with each other again within my lifetime, and I am curious how they will utilize their shared army!


I'm sure if, and when, that time comes, they'll start busting out their own armies. It's hard to tell, economically, what this would do since having a larger army would create more jobs (suppliers, contractors, personel, etc.)

As for this country, every military empire has crumbled at some point in time. There's no sense in thinking we are immune to histoic patterns.

My point is, it works for them very well. This, in your eyes, works very well for us. You can't honestly tell me they have a flawed system because of one or two weaknesses and then look at our flawed system and say it's better. They are different; that is all. I, personally, like the way they deal with certain issues like healthcare. To me, socialism works to an extent. I also believe free-markets work -- to an extent. Mixed market > free-market. Governments (including the people) are better of with socialism than without.
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Postby Corth » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:18 am

Socialism is an affront to human dignity. Its not a choice between one legitimate form of government or another. :)
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Postby avak » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:33 am

Corth wrote:Socialism is an affront to human dignity.


Poverty caused by the exploitive nature of free markets is an affront to human dignity. The most extreme version of socialism may indeed be an affront to human dignity if it directly inhibits ambition, but that is not what anyone here (but apparently you) are talking about. Pure socialism won't work just like pure capitalism won't work. It is completely naive to think that any capitlistic economy could operate independent of government regulation.

I certainly don't speak for anyone but myself, but the impression I get is that other people are talking about the benefits of a handful of 'socialistic' policies and programs, such as universal health care. The either/or argument is bogus.
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Postby Kifle » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:58 am

Corth wrote:Socialism is an affront to human dignity. Its not a choice between one legitimate form of government or another. :)


There you go with your universalization of a human response again :P And socialism isn't a form of government, so you're right.
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Postby Ashiwi » Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:52 am

There are shades to Socialism just as there are to Capitalism. The children of poor people deserve the arts, music, literature and a healthy lunch just as much as the children of wealthy people do.

If you're absolutely 100% anti-socialist, then aren't you saying you'd much rather live in a country where the children of the poor are allowed to starve or die of diseases for which there are cures as long as you can afford them?

Or would you rather there be shades of Socialism mixed in with our Capitalism? Poor children still don't get the best healthcare when they become ill, but at least they're not dependent on the whim of kind-hearted beneficiaries doing a single charitable service for the unfortunates.
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Postby Birile » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:35 pm

Corth wrote:Socialism is an affront to human dignity. Its not a choice between one legitimate form of government or another. :)


Socialism is a mindset and a way of life. Its flaw is that everyone has to believe in its tenets and agree to live that lifestyle.
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Postby Disoputlip » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:40 pm

I am living in same place Daggaz talks about. Dear Socialist Denmark.

One important thing I would like to stress.

The difference between "socialism" and the fund raising beneficial work that happens sometimes in america and are confused with socualism is whether or not you have to be grateful for the money you receive. In a socialist society you give people that need money and don't expect anyone to be grateful, whereas often rightwing people don't mind giving money for charity, but they want the receiving part to be grateful.

Hope it makes sense, it is a really simple difference between right and left politics in Denmark, but I think in the US everybody are rightwinged compared to here (ie. expect people to be grateful).
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Postby teflor the ranger » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:01 pm

Sarvis wrote:For that matter he could have pointed out some of the bad things like England's high unemployment rate and actually had a relevant point.


I'm sorry, but how does the CCCP and Cultural Revolution China not make for good points?
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Postby teflor the ranger » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:02 pm

avak wrote:Good point, because we all know they weren't prosperous until the US showed up. Oh, don't rewind the tape too far or you'll have to watch France save our collective asses in the Revolutionary War.

btw, this thread is best of web.


The reason why you don't rewind the tape that far is because it is during a different era and no countries at the time implemented modern socialism.

Nice try, but no dice.
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Postby teflor the ranger » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:08 pm

Kifle wrote:Or the fact that that the EU has a collective army so they don't have to spend as much as us on defense.


They don't spend as much on defense on we do because they depend on us for a ride. They depend on us for air support. They depend on us for nuclear deterrance. They depend upon our military strength based throughout Europe to deter threats of outside force. Our military bases in England, Germany, Bosnia, Italy, and on.

We invest in the security of Europe, and that is why they don't have to spend as much on defense.

How many forces have the EU committed to ensure the security of the United States?
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Postby teflor the ranger » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:10 pm

Another thought I would like to add in response to Daggaz's suggestion that it 'feels good' to 'help others' is that you don't need to have a socialist or near socialist society in order to 'help others.'

I find altruism is equally possible in any society that will allow it. Altruism should be more about freedom, than forcing people to redistribute their wealth.
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Postby Birile » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:24 pm

teflor the ranger wrote:
Kifle wrote:Or the fact that that the EU has a collective army so they don't have to spend as much as us on defense.


They don't spend as much on defense on we do because they depend on us for a ride. They depend on us for air support. They depend on us for nuclear deterrance. They depend upon our military strength based throughout Europe to deter threats of outside force. Our military bases in England, Germany, Bosnia, Italy, and on.

We invest in the security of Europe, and that is why they don't have to spend as much on defense.

How many forces have the EU committed to ensure the security of the United States?


That's because our Manifest Destiny has taken us all around the world--not because we're being nice and helping out. As for the EU committing anything to ensure our security, Hell, if we turn down monetary aid (and lots of it) from other countries as a result of disasters such as Hurricane Katrina, what makes you think we'd allow foreign military installations on our soil?

Teflor wrote:Another thought I would like to add in response to Daggaz's suggestion that it 'feels good' to 'help others' is that you don't need to have a socialist or near socialist society in order to 'help others.'

I find altruism is equally possible in any society that will allow it. Altruism should be more about freedom, than forcing people to redistribute their wealth.


Diso already made the point between socialism and altruism. Most "altruistic" deeds done in the US are done for the tax write-off and the recognition that comes from the deed (which, in turn, leads others to think you're a nice guy and want to do business with you).
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Postby teflor the ranger » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:26 pm

Birile wrote:Diso already made the point between socialism and altruism. Most "altruistic" deeds done in the US are done for the tax write-off and the recognition that comes from the deed (which, in turn, leads others to think you're a nice guy and want to do business with you).


Ah, thanks Birile and Diso. I was still going through posts. Although I do have to remark that a tax-write off is still only a partial return and that many acts of altruism cannot be written off - I'll also note that many that can be written off aren't either.

The Salvation Army buckets don't exactly come with reciept printers. (Although, yes, you could get a reciept if you asked.)
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Postby Kifle » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:22 pm

The EU, as with many parts of the world, supports the US in ways other than miltaristic. It's not as simple of an equation as you're making it out to be. As for altruism. There is none. The idea of altruism is inherently flawed. I understand what you're saying, but that is egoism, not altruism.
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Postby Corth » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:47 pm

<a href="http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071015184546.avefmhtd&show_article=1">Socialised health care!</a>
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Postby Sarvis » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:42 pm

You should probably read past the title Corth: "Others have used superglue to stick crowns back on, rather than stumping up for <b>private treatment, </b> said the study"

There appears to be some confusion with the new contract, which according to <a href="http://www.thisisdorset.net/display.var.1761769.0.the_whole_tooth_no_shortage_of_nhs_dentists.php">this article</a> the government is meeting with the dentists to resolve the issues.

In any case, their 194 pounds for a crown is a LOT more appealing than the $1300 I'm paying for a root canal next week. Their 15.90 for a cleaning is also a lot more appealing than the $1,000 I'm going to have to pay every 4 months because I developed periodontal disease during the 10 years of not having insurance or money to afford regular dental checkups.

Yay privatised health.
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