sorry to hear about your back.
1) two of everything - you have to have backups. you are being paid to be out there, it's a one shot deal. if your camera dies on ya, you'll need a backup. also having two cameras means the ability to have different lenses ready at all times
I got two batteries, I have two memory cards in the camera in case one flakes. I'm just not going to invest in a second camera or flash or lens until I've made enough money on the side to buy them. I was intending to write contracts that reduce / eliminate my liability due to equipment failures. You can never protect yourself from negligence, but I'll make sure that everything else is covered. Any advice on this? I've read about lots of people getting sued because they screwed up wedding pictures. I'll definitely start an LLC, but got any suggestions for key elements in a bullet proof engagement contract?
2) lenses - generally something in the 17-40 range, something in the 28-70 or 28-105 range, and 70-200. all 2.8 and all IS will make life easier on you for dealing with churches that will not allow you to use flash of any kind. again, two of everything (find a place you can rent on the weekends)
I have something in the 28-105 range. I'm not exactly sure what 2.8 refers too; I'm totally a novice with camera terminology. What is this IS. The flash photography in churches thing is an issue. I've been practicing at my church taking pictures at events and reviewing my results and I have a terrible time in the sanctuary. Mostly too dark.
I've tried bumping up the shutter speed and increasing the aperture, but I'm very worried about being able to select the right combination at the time... This is the area I worry about the most. What is this IS you are talking about?
Shooting weddings I think is convenient since I do work, but I do want to consider alternatives because as you mention it has a reputation for being cut throat. What other lines of business should could I be thinking about that are not 8-5 types of jobs?
I used to work at a christian wedding planning company, so I am somewhat familiar with the wedding side of the business, but I don't want to limit myself to what I know. What other ways can I make money with my camera. What about studio portraits. Event photography. What about sports photography? I have the camera for it, but I'd probably need a telephoto lense.
Thanks in advance.
teyaha photography / wedding
-
Adriorn Darkcloak
- Sojourner
- Posts: 1292
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:11 pm
Check out the Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM Telephoto Zoom Lens and the Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM Standard Zoom Lens.
They are two L (Luxury) series lenses that are usually set as the basic good set for photography. Even though prime (non-zoom) lenses are theoretically better, these two cover most the range of photography, not counting Macro work. The 24-70 is usually called the Wedding lens. I've used the 70-200 and it's great, even though it's obviously heavier than say the non-L version, which also has little more reach to it and the pictures come out great too. It's one of the big fights people usually have in forums.
Nokie is another good source you might consider. Some other possible options are pictures of products for brochures, brochures in general, ad-work, etc.
They are two L (Luxury) series lenses that are usually set as the basic good set for photography. Even though prime (non-zoom) lenses are theoretically better, these two cover most the range of photography, not counting Macro work. The 24-70 is usually called the Wedding lens. I've used the 70-200 and it's great, even though it's obviously heavier than say the non-L version, which also has little more reach to it and the pictures come out great too. It's one of the big fights people usually have in forums.
Nokie is another good source you might consider. Some other possible options are pictures of products for brochures, brochures in general, ad-work, etc.
you dont necessarily have to buy two of everything. you can rent from many camera shops usually for a modest fee
weddings, as with anything in the photographic business, really boils down to who you know and what you've done before
for weddings, i would recommend finding a local high calibre pro and offer to assist for him/her for two or three months next summer during the busy season. this is how i learned. it's a great way to see how it really works, the workflow involved, and then work in your own personal touches for dealing with customers.
another thing you can do is to offer portrait sessions for people you know or meet at work and around town. you can then put them up on onemodelplace.com or other modeling sights and eventually word of mouth gets around that a) you do quality work and b) starting with you could mean other opportunities later
for example - the first model (an old girlfriend) who agreed to pose for me went on and did several tv shows and import magazines. that word of mouth lead me to discover another girl who went from simple portraits to moving to europe with a lucrative modeling career.
books and books. many books about photography out there and they are all good.
lenses
aperture...or f stop...is a measure of the lens opening allowing light to hit the sensor/film as a fraction. the smaller the number, the more light the lens allows
the more light it allows generally means you can operate in lower light areas without having to use a flash. combining with image stabilized lenses means you can get razor sharp images, handheld, in situations that normally it wouldnt be possible. since most churches do not allow flash of any kind during ceremonies, this is key to get good shots during.
70-200 2.8L IS is recommended, but the 70-200 f4L IS is good too because those same churches usually dont allow the photographer anywhere near the altar during the ceremony
the larger aperture, combined with longer lengh lenses, helps to isolate the subject from the background - blurring it out and flatteing perspectives.
but...that shit aint cheap. for an introduction to the quality of the L series of canon lenses i recommend the new 28-105 f/4 L IS with the 70-200 f4L IS lenses until you actually start making money
it took me 4 years to turn an actual profit and that was actually relatively fast for the industry, but i had an advantage - i worked in a high end photography store that allowed some serious networking among other professionals.
weddings, as with anything in the photographic business, really boils down to who you know and what you've done before
for weddings, i would recommend finding a local high calibre pro and offer to assist for him/her for two or three months next summer during the busy season. this is how i learned. it's a great way to see how it really works, the workflow involved, and then work in your own personal touches for dealing with customers.
another thing you can do is to offer portrait sessions for people you know or meet at work and around town. you can then put them up on onemodelplace.com or other modeling sights and eventually word of mouth gets around that a) you do quality work and b) starting with you could mean other opportunities later
for example - the first model (an old girlfriend) who agreed to pose for me went on and did several tv shows and import magazines. that word of mouth lead me to discover another girl who went from simple portraits to moving to europe with a lucrative modeling career.
books and books. many books about photography out there and they are all good.
lenses
aperture...or f stop...is a measure of the lens opening allowing light to hit the sensor/film as a fraction. the smaller the number, the more light the lens allows
the more light it allows generally means you can operate in lower light areas without having to use a flash. combining with image stabilized lenses means you can get razor sharp images, handheld, in situations that normally it wouldnt be possible. since most churches do not allow flash of any kind during ceremonies, this is key to get good shots during.
70-200 2.8L IS is recommended, but the 70-200 f4L IS is good too because those same churches usually dont allow the photographer anywhere near the altar during the ceremony
the larger aperture, combined with longer lengh lenses, helps to isolate the subject from the background - blurring it out and flatteing perspectives.
but...that shit aint cheap. for an introduction to the quality of the L series of canon lenses i recommend the new 28-105 f/4 L IS with the 70-200 f4L IS lenses until you actually start making money
it took me 4 years to turn an actual profit and that was actually relatively fast for the industry, but i had an advantage - i worked in a high end photography store that allowed some serious networking among other professionals.
eh almost forgot - if you decide to put off weddings (it's not wedding season anyway) and do portraits, you can save a LOT of money by getting fixed focal length lenses
recommendations are (all canon)
50mm f/1.4
85mm f/1.8
105mm f/2.0L (dont get the 2.8 one or the macro one)
200mm f/2.8L
35mm f/1.4L
the 105mm f/2.0L lens has been heralded since it was first released 12 years ago as one of the highest quality lenses ever produced for any 35mm system (that wasnt Leica). it's not overly expensive and fantastic for outdoor portraits.
recommendations are (all canon)
50mm f/1.4
85mm f/1.8
105mm f/2.0L (dont get the 2.8 one or the macro one)
200mm f/2.8L
35mm f/1.4L
the 105mm f/2.0L lens has been heralded since it was first released 12 years ago as one of the highest quality lenses ever produced for any 35mm system (that wasnt Leica). it's not overly expensive and fantastic for outdoor portraits.
Kiryan,
If you are worried about not having the right combination of f-stop, shutterspeed and ISO then you need to get a lightmeter.
A sekonic L-358 flashmeter will do everything you may run into doing wedding photography.
Check out this sight for the specs
[url]
http://www.jackscamera.com/activex/prod ... ctno=20218
[/url]
If you are planning on doing portraits 18-55mm standard kit lense that comes with the eos 300d. For outdoor portraits I strictly use the 75-300mm kit lense as well.
Sometimes you can get by with the auto program modes. On older digital cameras you cannot shoot RAW format using those. I shoot in Manual program mode 95% of the time that couples with the lightmeter you will have everything you need for outdoor portraits. Indoor does tend to get a little confusing due to the different types of lighting. You have hot lights and cool lights which vary on wattage and the filter needed. On most camera software to process the RAW image you can adjust your white balance for the appropriate lighting as well as you can adjust it in camera. When I shoot in my studio I have to set the white balance to tungsten when I am using my hot lights and fluorescent when I am using my cool lights. For most outdoor applications Auto White Balance(AWB) will work decent enough to have to do very little editing after the shoot. I try to do as much in camera/frame editing as I can so I don't have to spend so much time at the computer tweaking a image that I should have gotten right in the first place.
As far as wedding photography as a whole, there is A LOT of money to be made in it. I stopped doing weddings simply due to the drama factor and family factor. You have to be a people person on all levels.
You may have already decided on what photos the couple are wanting but you have to be a boy scout, be prepared for anything. Aunt mildred or Uncle Robert could show up and "you just ave to get a photo of them" or "Well we talked it over and decided that we want these shots too" right at the last minute. the list goes on. Plus if you are printing yourself then you need to be able to turn a profit so that you can afford the ink and paper as well as the packaging for the photos. If you have any other questions send me a message sometime.
L8r all,
Nokar
If you are worried about not having the right combination of f-stop, shutterspeed and ISO then you need to get a lightmeter.
A sekonic L-358 flashmeter will do everything you may run into doing wedding photography.
Check out this sight for the specs
[url]
http://www.jackscamera.com/activex/prod ... ctno=20218
[/url]
If you are planning on doing portraits 18-55mm standard kit lense that comes with the eos 300d. For outdoor portraits I strictly use the 75-300mm kit lense as well.
Sometimes you can get by with the auto program modes. On older digital cameras you cannot shoot RAW format using those. I shoot in Manual program mode 95% of the time that couples with the lightmeter you will have everything you need for outdoor portraits. Indoor does tend to get a little confusing due to the different types of lighting. You have hot lights and cool lights which vary on wattage and the filter needed. On most camera software to process the RAW image you can adjust your white balance for the appropriate lighting as well as you can adjust it in camera. When I shoot in my studio I have to set the white balance to tungsten when I am using my hot lights and fluorescent when I am using my cool lights. For most outdoor applications Auto White Balance(AWB) will work decent enough to have to do very little editing after the shoot. I try to do as much in camera/frame editing as I can so I don't have to spend so much time at the computer tweaking a image that I should have gotten right in the first place.
As far as wedding photography as a whole, there is A LOT of money to be made in it. I stopped doing weddings simply due to the drama factor and family factor. You have to be a people person on all levels.
You may have already decided on what photos the couple are wanting but you have to be a boy scout, be prepared for anything. Aunt mildred or Uncle Robert could show up and "you just ave to get a photo of them" or "Well we talked it over and decided that we want these shots too" right at the last minute. the list goes on. Plus if you are printing yourself then you need to be able to turn a profit so that you can afford the ink and paper as well as the packaging for the photos. If you have any other questions send me a message sometime.
L8r all,
Nokar
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Welcome to toril
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Welcome to toril
What Teyaha said about two cameras, rent one or do some assistant work with someone else to get your foot in the door. One camera for someone's wedding isn't acceptable when they are probably paying you more than the camera is worth.
A good light meter will come in handy for your set up shots but it won't help you during the ceremony very much, you'd need a spot meter and even then you will miss important shots if using a hand held meter to get the right light reading 'when it counts most'. If you can't get a use able exposure shooting in RAW format without a hand-held meter you probably shouldn't be getting paid to shoot someone's wedding.
With your lenses, unless your using a digital with equivalent sensor size to 35mm ala eos1d, a 18-55mm zoom equates to 27-82mm traditionally on a lens. 80mm is a traditional portraiture lens, 80-105 works, and you can get effect your looking for with anything from a fish eye to a multiplied telephoto. One thing to remember with portraits and especially weddings where you don't know the people well is that most people aren't comfortable with you standing right in their face taking a shot of them.
Read up on 'depth of field' and make sure you know why it works or at least how it works.
Avoid using the built in flash mightily. The reason you angle your flash to just bounce off the ceiling is to just add a general soft light to the image, using the reflection as a way of diffusing the light so you don't cast peoples faces or even pimples and pores into shadow.
Look at some celebrity wedding shots and feel good in the fact your probably going to get a handful of better shots each trip for around 1/100 of the price! It'll cheer you up on those days you have to photograph ugly people who aren't trained models.
A good light meter will come in handy for your set up shots but it won't help you during the ceremony very much, you'd need a spot meter and even then you will miss important shots if using a hand held meter to get the right light reading 'when it counts most'. If you can't get a use able exposure shooting in RAW format without a hand-held meter you probably shouldn't be getting paid to shoot someone's wedding.
With your lenses, unless your using a digital with equivalent sensor size to 35mm ala eos1d, a 18-55mm zoom equates to 27-82mm traditionally on a lens. 80mm is a traditional portraiture lens, 80-105 works, and you can get effect your looking for with anything from a fish eye to a multiplied telephoto. One thing to remember with portraits and especially weddings where you don't know the people well is that most people aren't comfortable with you standing right in their face taking a shot of them.
Read up on 'depth of field' and make sure you know why it works or at least how it works.
Avoid using the built in flash mightily. The reason you angle your flash to just bounce off the ceiling is to just add a general soft light to the image, using the reflection as a way of diffusing the light so you don't cast peoples faces or even pimples and pores into shadow.
Look at some celebrity wedding shots and feel good in the fact your probably going to get a handful of better shots each trip for around 1/100 of the price! It'll cheer you up on those days you have to photograph ugly people who aren't trained models.
Arishae group-says 'mah sunray brings all the boys to the yard'
Shadow Scream
Shadow Scream
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kiryan
- Sojourner
- Posts: 7275
- Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
- Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
- Contact:
Thanks for the advice.
I don't plan on taking any high maintenance, high end wedding jobs. I'm thinking more like $100 event fee + $50 bucks an hour to shoot and deliver a CD with jpegs and raws. That'll make it worth my time, eliminate any time sink / responsibilities for print selection or touch up, and get me some money for new camera toys.
As far as working with a professional as a 2nd camera / backup, I'm really not that thrilled with the idea. I've not met very many wedding photographers that I like, and as I said I used to work for a christian wedding planning company.
I don't think they'll have much respect for my goals or business model. I figure they'll pretty much try and use me for free labor and that I won't really learn anything from them because they'll be protecting their turf. That or they'll try and hire me on the cheap. I'm pretty comfortable with the flow of wedding photography, but I need more experience with the equipment and taking good pictures. Am I just being stupid? Should I expect to get paid to shoot as a second camera for someone?
As far as flash goes, the mark ii doesn't have a built in flash, so i bought a speedlite 430 ex which has a diffuser. I also bought a custom bracket with a rotate option to get the flash off the camera. It has that timing thing (TTL?) which is supposed to help time the flash to the distance to get a decent picture.
I think a light meter would help me a lot, at least to recognize the subtle variations in light that cause me so much trouble now. That and taking a lot of pictures. I'm not shooting for greatness, just going to try and make a few bucks on the side and develop some photography skills.
anyone know what the challenges of doing studio work are? It seems like that should be fairly easy once you get control of your environment in terms of lighting and equipment setup. Then its just a matter of coaxing good pictures out of the subjects and a liberal supply of props? Doesn't seem like there is much money here unless you sell the prints and do the touch up. I'm comfortable with mail order processing, but doesn't seem like its worth it unless you've got high numbers or getting $100 bucks net sale per customer...
I don't plan on taking any high maintenance, high end wedding jobs. I'm thinking more like $100 event fee + $50 bucks an hour to shoot and deliver a CD with jpegs and raws. That'll make it worth my time, eliminate any time sink / responsibilities for print selection or touch up, and get me some money for new camera toys.
As far as working with a professional as a 2nd camera / backup, I'm really not that thrilled with the idea. I've not met very many wedding photographers that I like, and as I said I used to work for a christian wedding planning company.
I don't think they'll have much respect for my goals or business model. I figure they'll pretty much try and use me for free labor and that I won't really learn anything from them because they'll be protecting their turf. That or they'll try and hire me on the cheap. I'm pretty comfortable with the flow of wedding photography, but I need more experience with the equipment and taking good pictures. Am I just being stupid? Should I expect to get paid to shoot as a second camera for someone?
As far as flash goes, the mark ii doesn't have a built in flash, so i bought a speedlite 430 ex which has a diffuser. I also bought a custom bracket with a rotate option to get the flash off the camera. It has that timing thing (TTL?) which is supposed to help time the flash to the distance to get a decent picture.
I think a light meter would help me a lot, at least to recognize the subtle variations in light that cause me so much trouble now. That and taking a lot of pictures. I'm not shooting for greatness, just going to try and make a few bucks on the side and develop some photography skills.
anyone know what the challenges of doing studio work are? It seems like that should be fairly easy once you get control of your environment in terms of lighting and equipment setup. Then its just a matter of coaxing good pictures out of the subjects and a liberal supply of props? Doesn't seem like there is much money here unless you sell the prints and do the touch up. I'm comfortable with mail order processing, but doesn't seem like its worth it unless you've got high numbers or getting $100 bucks net sale per customer...
kiryan wrote:Thanks for the advice.
I don't plan on taking any high maintenance, high end wedding jobs. I'm thinking more like $100 event fee + $50 bucks an hour to shoot and deliver a CD with jpegs and raws. That'll make it worth my time, eliminate any time sink / responsibilities for print selection or touch up, and get me some money for new camera toys.
As far as working with a professional as a 2nd camera / backup, I'm really not that thrilled with the idea. I've not met very many wedding photographers that I like, and as I said I used to work for a christian wedding planning company.
I don't think they'll have much respect for my goals or business model. I figure they'll pretty much try and use me for free labor and that I won't really learn anything from them because they'll be protecting their turf. That or they'll try and hire me on the cheap. I'm pretty comfortable with the flow of wedding photography, but I need more experience with the equipment and taking good pictures. Am I just being stupid? Should I expect to get paid to shoot as a second camera for someone?
As far as flash goes, the mark ii doesn't have a built in flash, so i bought a speedlite 430 ex which has a diffuser. I also bought a custom bracket with a rotate option to get the flash off the camera. It has that timing thing (TTL?) which is supposed to help time the flash to the distance to get a decent picture.
I think a light meter would help me a lot, at least to recognize the subtle variations in light that cause me so much trouble now. That and taking a lot of pictures. I'm not shooting for greatness, just going to try and make a few bucks on the side and develop some photography skills.
anyone know what the challenges of doing studio work are? It seems like that should be fairly easy once you get control of your environment in terms of lighting and equipment setup. Then its just a matter of coaxing good pictures out of the subjects and a liberal supply of props? Doesn't seem like there is much money here unless you sell the prints and do the touch up. I'm comfortable with mail order processing, but doesn't seem like its worth it unless you've got high numbers or getting $100 bucks net sale per customer...
the 1D series (only series to have a Mark II assigned to it) have built-in spot meters
you dont need an external light meter with that camera, besides which the better quality light meters cost as much as a good lense
Hi Mike,
1D is a great camera. You will get a whole load of constructive advice here: http://www.dpreview.com/forums . Many people there will advise you not to do it without years of experience and practise and preparation, and personally I wouldn't although I've been taking photos for years, but if you're up to it then good luck to you!
-simon
1D is a great camera. You will get a whole load of constructive advice here: http://www.dpreview.com/forums . Many people there will advise you not to do it without years of experience and practise and preparation, and personally I wouldn't although I've been taking photos for years, but if you're up to it then good luck to you!
-simon
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