Did I misplay this hand?

[Xisiqomelir]

Live at CAZ, 5-150. I have the table image of running like God since I sat down, flopped a set of Queens and doubled up first hand vs 2 pair from the same villain in this hand, so I think he might be a little tilty. This is about 40 mins later and not much as happened.

Casino Arizona $5-150 Spread-Limit Hold'em, $5 BB (9 handed)
Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($113.00)
UTG+1 ($190.00)
MP1 ($79.00)
MP2 ($670.00)
Villain ($385.00)
CO ($410.00)
Button ($225.00)
Hero ($635.00)
BB ($472.00)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, 5.
UTG folds
UTG+1 calls $5
MP1 folds
MP2 folds
Villain raises to $15
CO folds
Hero calls $12
BB folds
UTG+1 folds

Flop: (2 players) Q 10 8
Hero checks
Villain bets $25
Hero calls $25.

Turn: ($90) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks
Villain bets $45
Hero calls $45.

River: ($180) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks
Villain bets $100
Hero raises to $250
Villain calls $150.

Final Pot: $680
Hero has A, 5, a Flush, Ace high
Villain has J, 9, a Straight, Queen high

Hero wins $680 ($344 profit)

[Ragorn]

Looks strong to me. That's a god hand... you flopped a flush, he flopped a straight. Your only strategy after the flop was to put all of his money in the pot by the end of the hand. Betting the turn would have just aroused suspicions... the 4h was a dead card, you couldn't have been banking on a non-draw hand if you were betting the turn.

A fourth diamond on the river would have induced him to check down or fold to your bet. No, it looks like the cards hit you in all the right places that hand, and you did your best getting him into the pot as deep as you could.

[Glaman]

Bet on the river to make it look like you are trying to steal the pot. He will think he has best hand, and will re-raise, then you re-raise again and take more of his money.

Overall, played well, that would have been the only thing I would have done based on this one hand and not knowing all of the other players playing styles.

[Kifle]

Nine-handed, in the small blind with A5 is not really a good play to call. UTG+1 had limped from a very weak and horrible position. This "usually" indicates a pretty damn strong hand. In most cases, you're dominated or only have one over to his pocket pair that also gives him straight possibilities (10's or higher) if you pair up your ace. The villian was in good position for a play steal (taking away the cut-off/button's steal plays), which it looks like he was doing for some odd reason. I wasn't in the game, so I'm not sure if that was a good play or not (depending on everybody's folding habits). With two to act still, calling the $13 was a bad idea. A re-steal from the SB would be a good idea at this point depending on whether or not the villian was just a loose player and you knew you were up against two random cards rather than a strong hand (3xBB is standard good hand raise). Even still, you'd have to worry about UTG+1 and the BB calling the bet or either, but probably UTG+1, re-raising (which happens when good players are at the table and somebody in that possition limps). You were pinched and really had no reason to be in the hand. Most times, that is a losing play; however, you flopped the flush and UTG+1 is either a weak player or had two random cards and thought limping with King-9 off-suit was a good idea...

As for the rest of the hand, it was a good play. The guy was representing a very strong hand with his second bet. It was good to check the flush, but against stronger players, this indicates strength when you just "cold call" the continuation bet. Do it twice, and stronger players will fold that straight. I'm suprised he bet at you with a straight on the turn in the first place seeing as how a flush was showing and you just cold called his continuation. Anyway, the check at this point, since he is a weak player, was a good idea because he was looking to get paid on a losing hand. You had the nuts with no FH possibilities on the board. The only thing beating you at this point was the SF, but there's really no way in hell to guage if they have that hand.

Imo, you got lucky and caught your flush in a hand you had no business being in. A5 really shouldn't be played unless you are in late position with no raisers behind you or it is a small hand game (5 in a tourny where the bubble is 4 or 4 handed). Other than that, it was a standard "let the loose player bet at you until the river and re-raise" hand. A smart player checks his straight on the turn and just calls your bet on the river or folds which would have netted you a lot less. Think of it this way. You value bet the flop. He calls, you check the turn... a strong player will bet his straight (instead of noticing your cold calls the way you played here), you call. This will confuse him as to what the fuck you have at this point. It looks like a buy with a possible flush representation rather than having the nuts. The hand plays out the same on the river except you kept the strong and weak player in the hand rather than just the weak player.

[Corth]

Some people have just way too much time on their hands. :)

[Dalar]

Some people have just way too much time on their hands. :)

Naw, it's kinda like Folur asking us if he did the right thing and us explaining why.

[Kegor]

Should have reraised him after the turn card. He was betting very aggressively and he would have kept calling or reraising you. He might have had a straight flush, but the odds against that are a very good for you. Hands like that are how you can wipe out new players in a single hand.

But still, well played on your part coming away with a nice pot.

[ssar]

Agree, I see potential there to have milked a bit more out of him.
Checking straight up on at least one of those turns was great, you should have bet something average on another tho, and reeled that sucker in for more.

[Ragorn]

If you checked the flop and bet the turn, he's going to raise an eyebrow. If you check-call down to the river, it looks like you have four diamonds, or maybe you have KJ or some other drawing hand and you're just looking to find your draw on the cheap. If you check the flop and bet the 4h, a card that does absolutely nothing for the hand, it gets very suspicious. To me, that kind of thing says that you flopped a set or top two pair, and you're trying to lay a trap.

Now sure, he had a straight, so he would have tried to steamroll you if he put you on a set or two pair. But if he had AQ, QJ, or maybe 88, he might back off if you bet the turn on a hand like this. That's why I think checking the turn is the right way to go. Check the flop, call. Check the turn, call. Then, depending on the kind of player you think he is (loose, tight? likely to bluff or stab the pot?), you either check or put a value bet on the river.

[Emarin]

This hand was played perfectly... Despite what a few others say about getting in an extra bet, I don't think you could have really squeezed much more out of the guy.

If you were going to make a raise at any point other than the river (which you check, raised the fool) It would have been on the turn. His $45 dollar bet actually kinda gives away his hand that he either has nothing or a huge monster behind it. Check the pot (not counting the blinds or pre-flop folders) There was $30 preflop, $50 flop, and then he bets nearly half the pot on the turn.... Typically that cries 2 things... a) i'm bluffing and don't really want you to call, or b) i have a huge monster behind... Reasoning:

1) if you were on a draw, you're getting less than 2:1 pot odds... You wouldn't be able to call if you only had a flush draw seeing how u really need nearly 4.5:1 since there's already 3 diamonds on the board. He would then lose you as a customer even tho he has the 2nd nut (nut being any flush)

2) the only hand you can possibly call with is either a straight flush draw, flush, straight or set, with the given pot odds. (even open ended wouldn't net you the right pot odds to call, since you'd either be drawing dead, or only have 7 outs)

What raising on the turn does for you...

1) find out the strength of his hand. If he folds here, he's gonna fold on the river no matter what card comes out.

2) Don't give him a chance to catch up... He's been raising and betting the entire way out. If he has a set in the hole, he's got 10 outs on you. You should do to him what he's trying to do to you... If you're on a draw, pay for it.

3) Conceals the information about your hand. If he folds cause he thinks you have a flush, but mucks... don't show your hand, from there on out he's gonna ponder what you have each and everytime, and that'll allow you to get away with more bluffs and rake in a lot more when they decide they don't believe you.

4) Make your opponent think... If he puts you on a flush then yea you're gonna lose a little bit of money... However, you did the maximum raise on the river.... (i mean what's a rule of poker... never max raise someone on the river, unless you know you're holding the absolute nuts) For me, mucking a straight on the river after you raise the max would have been a no-brainer. By raising on the turn, your opponent doesn't know if you're trying to feel him out, or what kind of hand you really hold... Remember he's holding 2nd nut, he only gets beat by a flush... A decent raise could come from a set or even two pair. For all you know, he could be thinking you hit top set, but you're still behind. (he might just re-raise)

5) Huge bet on turn = Huge pay out on river. If you raised that $45 to $125... then bet $100 on the river, and he flat calls you... you'd have made out ahead $10. If he raises you on the river, you make that much more.

Once again tho, I think you did well to maximize the total profit... hell, i'd be happy too if i made $340 dollars playing Ad5d.... (terrible hand to play from SB imo)

[Emarin]

LOL, just took time to read what Kifle and others said... yea I didn't even need to write a long post... I agree completely with Kifle.

[Ragorn]

Note also that Villain only had $385 going into the hand. Hero couldn't have gotten THAT much more out of him in any case.

[Kifle]

Note also that Villain only had $385 going into the hand. Hero couldn't have gotten THAT much more out of him in any case.

Never leave an idiot any money at the poker table. Also, wtf was up with that game? Only like 3 people even had enough of a stack to be there. I think I would have loved to play at that table :)

[Xisiqomelir]

Thanks all. The preflop call and the turn call are really what bugged me most later. It's good to have people agree.

Note also that Villain only had $385 going into the hand. Hero couldn't have gotten THAT much more out of him in any case.

Never leave an idiot any money at the poker table.

Oh, don't worry about that. I raised to $15 on the button like 2 orbits later with KJo and villain jammed the rest in. I called and tabled, board came KTTxx and villain mucked and left.

Also, wtf was up with that game? Only like 3 people even had enough of a stack to be there. I think I would have loved to play at that table :)

CAZ is absolutely the softest cardroom with the worst players I've ever been in. I've heard Commerce has even better games (AND NL, which is banned in Phoenix), so I'm going to check that out when I visit Vohisa and her family for Xmas.

[Kifle]

Thanks all. The preflop call and the turn call are really what bugged me most later. It's good to have people agree.

Note also that Villain only had $385 going into the hand. Hero couldn't have gotten THAT much more out of him in any case.

Never leave an idiot any money at the poker table.

Oh, don't worry about that. I raised to $15 on the button like 2 orbits later with KJo and villain jammed the rest in. I called and tabled, board came KTTxx and villain mucked and left.

Also, wtf was up with that game? Only like 3 people even had enough of a stack to be there. I think I would have loved to play at that table :)

CAZ is absolutely the softest cardroom with the worst players I've ever been in. I've heard Commerce has even better games (AND NL, which is banned in Phoenix), so I'm going to check that out when I visit Vohisa and her family for Xmas.

Well, if you're ever in Indiana, you should stop by our home game. I usually play with a friend who lives with two other guys that make a living playing online poker. I've thought about it, but, for as much as I know about the game, I honestly hate playing it other than to just socialize at home games.

[Dalar]

Thanks all. The preflop call and the turn call are really what bugged me most later. It's good to have people agree.

Note also that Villain only had $385 going into the hand. Hero couldn't have gotten THAT much more out of him in any case.

Never leave an idiot any money at the poker table.

Oh, don't worry about that. I raised to $15 on the button like 2 orbits later with KJo and villain jammed the rest in. I called and tabled, board came KTTxx and villain mucked and left.

Also, wtf was up with that game? Only like 3 people even had enough of a stack to be there. I think I would have loved to play at that table :)

CAZ is absolutely the softest cardroom with the worst players I've ever been in. I've heard Commerce has even better games (AND NL, which is banned in Phoenix), so I'm going to check that out when I visit Vohisa and her family for Xmas.

[Kifle]

Thanks all. The preflop call and the turn call are really what bugged me most later. It's good to have people agree.

Note also that Villain only had $385 going into the hand. Hero couldn't have gotten THAT much more out of him in any case.

Never leave an idiot any money at the poker table.

Oh, don't worry about that. I raised to $15 on the button like 2 orbits later with KJo and villain jammed the rest in. I called and tabled, board came KTTxx and villain mucked and left.

Also, wtf was up with that game? Only like 3 people even had enough of a stack to be there. I think I would have loved to play at that table :)

CAZ is absolutely the softest cardroom with the worst players I've ever been in. I've heard Commerce has even better games (AND NL, which is banned in Phoenix), so I'm going to check that out when I visit Vohisa and her family for Xmas.

Lol, burning somebody that doesn't play anymore? Still funny though.

[Emarin]

BTW, I have to kinda edit what i said before. I normally wouldn't call with Ad5d in small blind into any raise, with 1 exception. That is, if you know you probably have a better hand just cause of the way that person has been playing all night. I've played many times where a guy raises to try and build a pot for himself, and made an atypical call. Granted, that's what that guy wants you to do, but if happen to get the board flop in your favor, then you can really pound that person. The judgement whether your hand is worthy enough to play, and playing your opponent is of course always at your discretion.


BTW, Commerce Casino is the friggin mecca of poker... um, my only advice is watch out for those low no-limit/spread limit/pot limit hold'ems. I've seen a few sharks lurkin there, since it's easier to put a few moves on a guy. Also, when you get to the higher-limit, all the food is free, and its better food than most other places i've been to.