XP Percentage for Area

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Mitharx
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XP Percentage for Area

Postby Mitharx » Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:04 am

Okay, I've talked to both Oghma and Mielikki and Oghma said he's gonna ask area gods about this because he cares. I wanna make it clear early that the imms I talked to about this were very cooperative and listened and promised to see what was up with this.

This thread is to make sure that I represent the mass voice when I say that xp zones are not measuring up to DS. Many zones (Meilich, ship, tower, etc.)while being as more difficult than DS, are less xp. I believe (and I hope other agree) that this should be fixed.

Xp is important because it shows time invested from one person to another in skills, but it isn't even throughout zones. As it stands now, many groups are standing around waiting for for mobs to repop in DS while other zones stand undone because the xp isnt' equal.

Making all xp equal to DS xp doesn't involve making the fights as difficult because what does that prove? As it stands, the ship mobs pretty much kick pets around with very litttle problem without me healing constantly. The DS mobs I can smack around with no problems. The swamps mobs I can kick around with a bit more watchful eye. In any case, it doesn't take a ton of effort for me ot kill these mobs. It's more than possible/plausible for me to do so without the help of others and yet the easiest kill of the three = more xp. So you should make that easiest mob harder? NO!!!!

I still go through the same actions to kill the mob. I could do these with any non-tracking mob and do it over and over again. The motions with my rogue/warrior are the same as well.

I'm not building skill, I'm building useless boring ptime that makes me not want to play.

If you're a player who feels I forgot something or agrees with me please post here. I really respect the gods and the job they've done, but I'm enthustiastic about this post as well. Please speak up all (including people who disagree with me).
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Postby Dizzin » Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:13 am

I utterly agree that DS exp is just insane. I've seen an elementalist level there from 1 to 41 in less than a week. I'm sorry but that's just wrong.
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Postby Mitharx » Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:17 am

Thanks Dizzin. I think it's important to recognize that DS is worth more xp that any zone that has ever been seen before. My big question is whether or not Xp really makes you a better char or not.

I really feel like it never made my chars any better except in skills, but I bet some others disagree....
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Postby Mitharx » Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:28 am

BTW: This change should help evils as much as goodies because ship/tower is so much more doable than DS thanks to daylight.
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Postby Thilindel » Tue Oct 21, 2003 9:07 am

Not that I'm takin the easy way out, but I think all exp should be easier. What it truly makes me think of is a stoplight. I absolutely HATE stoplights in rl. I usually curse like hell, especially when those stupid ass timed ones go off w/o reason to stop you. EXP is just boring as can be..a 'necessary evil' so to speak, but definitely it shouldn't take all that long, as is the case. Dizzy's case about the ele that exp'd hit way to bliss in a week is proof that some people can donate a ton of time here. I'd really like to boost all the other exp zones to that of DS, therefore we wouldn't have all this rush to hurry up and wait with 3 or 4 other groups vs. pop :( Seems simple enough unless I'm just naive - Xth level mob is worth certain amount..add bonus for proc's, such as bloodraider freak tho trips ya when you cast..etc. Make killing gods worth a assload, etc. Smoke used to be totally crowded..now it's just empty, like my head! *nod me*
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Postby Cirath » Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:02 am

I say lower exp over all. It's to easy these days anyway. And yes, I know, no one agrees and I'm evil for saying that.
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Postby Yayaril » Tue Oct 21, 2003 12:45 pm

8)

I hope they increase the other zones to equal DS.
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Postby Ulnd/Folrath » Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:17 pm

As far as how fast ele's can exp, it doesn't bother me. We all know the easiest char to exp is an ele. The negative side of an ele is that only one is needed for a zone, if that.

The point is that warriors, clerics and chanters and almost every other class have to spend literally days of their time in ds to get to level 50. I think this is the largest intimidating factor to new players. Everytime I help a new player to 16 or so, all I hear about later is how slow exp is. After a few weeks of that I never see them anymore.

I'm not opposed to making exp more difficult to get at higher levels, but if we want to make this mud more accessible I think it is important to make the first 30 levels or so twice as fast to gain as they are now. Then let the steep curve begin at level 30 once people are hooked :).

As far as the inequality of exp zones. It's always been like that, but at least back in the days we had wizzies, tower, bg/wd elites and groups of 5 or so even did some jot for exp. I'd like to see the number of places I can exp from 40-50 increase as mitharx is saying :)

Good post
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Definitely

Postby irta » Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:20 pm

XP gained overall should definitely be increased. You should xp better in zones then in "xp areas" (the risk being you need to avoid dying which is much more likely). Risk of death should be the greatest determinate of how much xp you get. You learn by doing risky things not be repetively killing mobs that are rated too high (such as ferns).

the Irta
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Postby Dalar » Tue Oct 21, 2003 4:01 pm

bug shevarash to finish the proposal he already has!
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby old depok » Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:12 pm

I'd like to see an exp bonus for using skills. Some classes already have it such as chanters for stoning, priests for Healing. Here are examples for others:

Rogues using hide/sneak in the same room as an agro mob of their level or more.

Necro's - raising the dead

Druids - Using shape change in agro area as per rogue above.

Rangers for whittling (this gets them ready for their job at 1 w)

Etc.

Experience should be given for skill building as well as for killing. If the goal is to get people to work on skills then that would do it.

Just attach experience to when you learn a skill. Since skills cap per level it would prevent people from just sitting on thier butts and whittling (see Ranger). It would also give some classes that currently have to chose between skill building vs experiencing a break (rogues). Not that i think rogues need an experience break but working on rogue skills is like watching paint dry without the excitement.

Oh, and DS exp is > than all else. The paladins should get together a class action law suit and sue the admins for descrimination because the mobs are not evil classed.
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Postby mynazzaraxxsyn » Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:50 pm

old depok wrote:working on rogue skills is like watching paint dry without the excitement.


Psi isn't much better, adrenalize and flesh armor are on a 24 minute-ish timer. Body control is longer. Tower of iron will isn't too bad, lasts like 2 minutes. I know assassinate is on a 24 or 48 minute timer.
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Postby Cirath » Tue Oct 21, 2003 9:10 pm

old depok wrote:Oh, and DS exp is > than all else. The paladins should get together a class action law suit and sue the admins for descrimination because the mobs are not evil classed.


[sarcasm="Cirath"]Yeah, cause thier getting 125% from evil mobs really doesn't make up for that. [/sarcasm]
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Re: Definitely

Postby Caedym » Tue Oct 21, 2003 9:38 pm

irta wrote:XP gained overall should definitely be increased. You should xp better in zones then in "xp areas" (the risk being you need to avoid dying which is much more likely). Risk of death should be the greatest determinate of how much xp you get. You learn by doing risky things not be repetively killing mobs that are rated too high (such as ferns).

the Irta


This would be ideal if you could zone before 41st level. If only equipment zones were packed with experience, then leveling would be far worse before zonable level.

I always thought there was a trade off between doing HP ship vs DS. I thought one gave more exp, and the other gave more money? I'm not up to speed on the monetary rewards compared to the two zones, but does this sound about right?

By the sounds of things, it seems DS needs to be downgraded more then changing everything else to equal it. You can put me in the bunch with folks who don't want to speed up Toril leveling as a whole. Making it to 50th on here had always meant something. If a person can do it really fast on here, it is usually a dam good sign they are pretty knowledgeable about this place and possibly worthy of respect. You take that away, you take away the feeling of accomplishment.

Lemme put it this way. I have 10x's more respect for the highlevel bards who played back during my hayday then the ones playing know. Big woop, you leveled to 50th on a rogue exp table with skills that actually do something. Like that's something to be proud off.

I want a feeling of accomplishment. I want to feel pride in what I've done. Players who get bored with a game and leave because they can't become uber in a week, will become bored of the game and leave it anyways even if they could level as fast as they'd like. I'm even like that on some games. Look at Diablo 2. I finished it in 8 hours had a 60 some level character I played for a whole whopping 2 weeks before I got bored senseless. Now look at at all the folks addicted to Everquest and it's time consuming leveling experience (that is if you don't buy your character.)

So bring DS exp down to equal the other zones. One zoned changed is a lot easier then 5.

-Caedym Shadowhock
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Postby Lilithelle » Tue Oct 21, 2003 9:52 pm

I exped my elementalist up before DS and it wasn't fast. I think 49-50 took about 25 hours. Easy from the stand point i didn't need a group and could solo exp, but not easy from a speed stand point. I'm sure a rogue would easily out level an elementalist. But I do agree exp is too easy, look at how many people have 4 and 5 level 46+ alts these days. Who elementalist is nuts though, too many people making them. I wouldn't mind seeing the exp for elementalists made alot harder, make people play group useful classes. Maybe make enchanter exp a bit easier, cleric exp easier, etc. Those 16 elementalists on who just don't help when looking for zone groups :P And to me the greatest strength of an elementalist is its solo capability, but this capability is lost on newer players without the knowledge and skills to truely use the class to its fullest. And I'm not saying that exp should be made harder just cause mine is already 50, I don't mind working at it for the level of power an elementalist has.

There are so many places in this mud, I toyed around when I started here trying to exp off mobs I'd find on dusk road, or other out of the way places but the exp just stunk. Would be nice if there was some incentive for people to go farther a field or explore a bit to find nice exp spots. Or at least some quiet ones!
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Postby Caedym » Tue Oct 21, 2003 9:59 pm

Lilithelle wrote:I exped my elementalist up before DS and it wasn't fast. I think 49-50 took about 25 hours. Easy from the stand point i didn't need a group and could solo exp, but not easy from a speed stand point. I'm sure a rogue would easily out level an elementalist. But I do agree exp is too easy, look at how many people have 4 and 5 level 46+ alts these days. Who elementalist is nuts though, too many people making them. I wouldn't mind seeing the exp for elementalists made alot harder, make people play group useful classes.
Lil


Not a half bad idea. Actually they should officially announce the increase in the Elementalist exp tables, and then after 3 months change it back without telling anyone.

-Caedym Shadowhock
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Postby Mitharx » Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:11 pm

But what are you accomplishing besides wearing out your keyboard? Rogue assists, rogue circles, over and over and over. Go enter key!

Lich uses the switch code and does the same thing over and over and over.

In DS, I got 78% one night with my necro. One night consided of a 12.5 hour xp marathon. It wasn't easy. It was damn time consuming and ya know what I learned? Nothing. It wasn't fun. It wasn't rewarding, it just was.

What is the accomplishment of making people wait? It's gonna happen. It's just gonna take me more time. And I'm doing the rogue thing now. It's not speeding by. I'm not getting to 50 in record time. Yes, it's quick compared to other chars, but it's not ultra quick. I think DS is a reasonable amount of xp considered there is only so much you can learn by killing the same mobs over and over and over. What did you just accomplish? You helped lower the giant and druid population.

Okay, I do see some merit in lowering the druid population:P

But seriously, I'm all for reptition. I'm all for typing circle and repeating for hours on end because somehow that's gonna make me a better rogue. All I ask is that the zones that tend to be harder for xp, shouldn't give less xp than a zone that has easy xp.

By the way, from the numbers I've seen with people xp'in in both places. A 5% decrease in DS xp would still be more than ship.
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Re: Definitely

Postby irta » Wed Oct 22, 2003 12:22 am

Caedym wrote:
I want a feeling of accomplishment. I want to feel pride in what I've done. Players who get bored with a game and leave because they can't become uber in a week, will become bored of the game and leave it anyways even if they could level as fast as they'd like. I'm even like that on some games. Look at Diablo 2. I finished it in 8 hours had a 60 some level character I played for a whole whopping 2 weeks before I got bored senseless. Now look at at all the folks addicted to Everquest and it's time consuming leveling experience (that is if you don't buy your character.)

So bring DS exp down to equal the other zones. One zoned changed is a lot easier then 5.

-Caedym Shadowhock


Call me crazy, but I see the only solution to xp being worthwhile is to get rid off all the xp zones (at least the high-level ones). This will encourage people go to the easy zones (they're out there) and start to learn things rather then just pounding out mindless xp. Adjusting DS experience is just going to move people to ship. People will learn more and it'll be more fun. As it stands now, level is a worthless determinate of people's true experience with their character, and something drastic needs to be done.

the Irta
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Re: Definitely

Postby moritheil » Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:10 am

irta wrote:Call me crazy, but I see the only solution to xp being worthwhile is to get rid off all the xp zones (at least the high-level ones). This will encourage people go to the easy zones (they're out there) and start to learn things rather then just pounding out mindless xp. Adjusting DS experience is just going to move people to ship. People will learn more and it'll be more fun. As it stands now, level is a worthless determinate of people's true experience with their character, and something drastic needs to be done.

the Irta


Or at least just up zone exp to make ppl gain back what they lose in places like TF, Jot, and Brass? :D
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Re: Definitely

Postby Dlur » Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:05 am

moritheil wrote:
Or at least just up zone exp to make ppl gain back what they lose in places like TF, Jot, and Brass? :D


I'd revise that to state the following:

At least just up zone exp to make people gain back what they lose while following Mori. :)
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group xp-ing in range 40-50

Postby Guw » Wed Oct 22, 2003 5:53 am

One ting dat Guw notices is that when xp-ing above 40 (especially 45+) it's dis-advantagous to form a medium-large size group.

Two or three man group is the max for optimum xp in the xp-zones ship/meilich, and produces in the range 5-10% per real hour of game play.

Had a 6-7 man (and woman!) group most in range 40-45 running ship a few nights ago.. the 42nd squid in group was getting a notch every 7 kills. The 40th dire seemed to be notching about twice per kill. Everyone else was prolly around an xp notch every 2-5 (?) kills, somethin like dat. Guw prolly got 7 notches in 2-3 hour of xp, is that 4-5% per hour?

Reduce solo xp, increase group xp since grouping is what the games about. It's practice for zoning. Increase the group xp exponentially with group size :) This also throws the tanks a bone since everybody will have a warm fuzzy feel when person number 11 is enrolled in the xp group, instead of sharpening their daggers :)

I imagine it like this.. it's difficult to learn a team game by yourself. You can't learn to play eg football by yourself, ya gotta prac it with the team.

To briefly touch upon the topic at hand :) the DS xp does seem to be a little higher than elsewhere, but I've only xp'd there after 40th level so it wasn't insane or anything. Normally there is a large pile of goodie corpses littering DS so I guess there must some honey there!
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Postby Yarash » Thu Oct 23, 2003 10:11 am

ds = good exp at all levels, even in sizable group (5+ ppl), highest risk of death, poor money
pship = mediocre exp, crappy exp at high levels unless group is tiny (3 ppl), low risk of death, highest profit
smoke = above average exp if group is tiny (2 ppl), money is so-so

There are other places to exp at high levels, but none are as popular. Exp descriptions based on exping as mage.

--------------

I think exp is fine the way it is, BUT sojourn isn't about being hardcore. One of the things that makes/made this game popular is its ease of play. If the players of the mud want it to be easier maybe it should be. My own feeling...the easier something is to achieve, the less it means.

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Postby Areandon » Thu Oct 23, 2003 11:03 am

I agee with Irta. I'm still working on getting my first character to 50 after a very long absence from the mud so I guess a qualify as a newbie.
Two things that have made this mud very difficult to play:

Xp and getting decent eq.

You don't learn anything from DS, or ship or monestary XP. It is just mindless killing the same mobs all over again. You have to do this for months, especially if you made a chanter like I did, to get to real game: zoning. 3 months of XP just to get started will scare most new players away.

You can see who the real newbies are usually. They're the ones who don't have eq from zones, and are wearing some eq that is given to them by other players. For the first 3 months you don't even have to think about going out and getting extra XP, you can't get in real zoning groups, and players your level are busy being plevelled in DS.

A long time ago we used to xp-ing in IC or in HP. There was some eq to be found for a mid-level player, so it had all the thrills of a real zone. By the time you got to 45, you knew all about how to zone. I think this made a lot better players. Now you learn how to write bash-triggers, rescue-triggers, kick-triggers and so on.

I'd suggest downgrading mobs and xp for DS to cater solo-players, and make xp-ing in mid-level zones viable again. Make group-xp way better than solo-xp so people will be forced to join up and brave zones with aggros, assisting mobs and other risky stuff again to level. It will make xp-ing a lot more fun in the long run.

I want to see mini-mori take a bunch of lvl 20s to IC and spank the group :P
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Postby Sesexe » Thu Oct 23, 2003 1:48 pm

Mitharx wrote:But what are you accomplishing besides wearing out your keyboard?


Unless you're getting a little something special on the side the rest of us aren't, that's all any of us are getting by playing a text based game that doesn't allow you to keep copies of your character or the game.
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Postby Lenefir » Thu Oct 23, 2003 1:54 pm

Sesexe wrote:
Mitharx wrote:But what are you accomplishing besides wearing out your keyboard?


Unless you're getting a little something special on the side the rest of us aren't, that's all any of us are getting by playing a text based game that doesn't allow you to keep copies of your character or the game.

*mindboggling*

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Postby Osil » Thu Oct 23, 2003 11:50 pm

I think the best thing would be to have some sort of group exps bonus. This bonus would scale depending on how big your group is.
This would encourage higher level expers to take a bunch of newbies to qualify for the bonus. The higher levelers get more exps and the new players can meet the established players and interact. The best thing (only thing?) about mindless exps is meeting new people while you are doing it.

Also this bonus will always kick in when you go to those 15 person eq zones. This also means that you won't have to do so much exps to get back levels lost in a zone. Leveling would be easier but there would be growth in the sense of community and the chance to hook new players.
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Postby Mitharx » Fri Oct 24, 2003 3:32 pm

Wow. I get "enjoyment" out of the game. Perhaps I'm the only one here. I don't believe at any point anyone was discussing getting any physical rewards. I'm posting here in an attempt to increase enjoyment and decrease boring repetitive actions that I do not enjoy. It occurs to me that your post had little meaning to our conversation here.

I'm not sure how to handle the larger group aspects. I'm all for grouping. I'm all for large groups. I'm not sure how you handle xp groups where all you have to do to get more xp is grab a bunch of newer players.

Umm, I'm all for upping xp in zones such as IC and HP although I don not really feel that what you learn from those zones is in some way greater than what you learn from DS xp.

Making XP enjoyable for low level characters = good.

Making XP harder for higher level character because its more enjoyable for lower level characters = I don't follow the logic.

Make XP more enjoyable for all = Bingo.
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Postby Lilithelle » Fri Oct 24, 2003 10:13 pm

Also mindless exp will always be the best exp because you need to get things down to a system for it to be fast killing. You want to kill the same mobs over and over, ones you don't need to walk far to get from one to the other, and you don't need to tell everyone how to do each fight. Or don't need special preparation for each fight. Sadly good exp will always be mindless.
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Postby Mitharx » Sat Oct 25, 2003 12:09 am

I agree. My interpretation of enjoyable in the conext of XP deals with being able to do it in more than one place. It will still be quick and systematic:P
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Postby Dezzex » Sat Oct 25, 2003 12:22 am

Er so -- this conclusion came up in many other threads, but the exp versus accomplishment issue isn't going to be fixed without major renovations. I agree with Cirath insofar exp should be even harder so that 50 means something. But I also will NOT do any exp in its present form.
You can't have both as it stands -- easy leveling and yet a sense of accomplishment for attaining the highest mortal level.

Yes, there are many other accomplishments to differentiate players, but personally I much prefer a balanced who list -- so that not everybody is a level 50 ultimate hero or an inferno-casting wizard of doom. This abundance of god-like characters is even more pronounced with everybody's personal guild titles and ranks. Feels like a ROM where 90% of everyone you see is a 200 Wa/Ma/Cl/Ro/Su self-proclaimed demigod hunter. In my opinion this detracts from the atmosphere that is so important to the Sojourn experience.

I realize some will disagree on the latter point and claim that we're all here to escape RL drudgery -- that things are only fun when you are a "somebody". To them I say that never have I enjoyed the Sojourn atmosphere as much as I did when I was a newbie level 15 paladin. And I also say that you have it backwards: instead, we just have a lot of level 50 "nobodys".

So as for the major renovations, in my opinion at least these things need to change (off the top of my head):

1) Exp as we know it now should be useful only to level 20.
2) Exp advancement should come from performing in dangerous zone-situations, appropriate to your level. In my mind this would imply (and all these bonuses are much larger than whatever may exist presently):
* Small bonus to aggressive mobs
* Larger bonus to aggressive wandering mobs.
* Larger bonus to mobs of exceptionally higher level. (a group of 20-30 chars taking on a 50+ mob)
* -insert many other ideas here-
3) Penalties for having a large group should be abolished.
4) A steady influx of new players to fill in the lower gaps

And if, after all this, players no longer 'expect' to attain 50 by mindlessly putting in 12 hour marathon exp runs, but rather to achieve it over time like we do equipment, then I say all is well.
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Postby Yarash » Sat Oct 25, 2003 12:41 am

Exp has been mostly enjoyable for me for all of my characters, with one exception: when I remade yarash. That was just a big pita.

For information purposes, here is some data on Yarash 1, my first character to exceed level 24, zone, and get to level 50. I'd also consider myself to be an average player.

lv 1 06/27/02
lv 2 06/27/02
lv 3 06/27/02
lv 4 06/28/02
lv 5 06/28/02
lv 6 06/29/02
lv 7 06/29/02
lv 8 07/01/02
lv 9 07/02/02
lv 10 07/02/02
lv 11 07/02/02
lv 12 07/02/02
lv 13 07/04/02
lv 14 07/04/02
lv 15 07/05/02
lv 16 07/05/02
lv 17 07/06/02
lv 18 07/07/02
lv 19 07/09/02
lv 20 07/11/02
lv 21 07/16/02
lv 22 07/20/02
lv 23 07/23/02
lv 24 07/29/02
lv 25 07/31/02
lv 26 08/03/02
lv 27 08/04/02
lv 28 08/08/02 <-- Xolan took me to smoke
lv 29 08/08/02 <-- Xolan took me to smoke
lv 30 08/10/02
lv 31 08/11/02
lv 32 08/11/02
lv 33 08/12/02
lv 34 08/13/02
lv 35 08/13/02
lv 36 08/15/02
lv 37 08/18/02
lv 38 08/19/02
lv 39 08/23/02
lv 40 08/27/02
lv 41 08/31/02
lv 42 09/03/02
lv 43 09/10/02
lv 44 09/14/02
lv 45 09/19/02
lv 46 09/25/02
lv 47 09/29/02
lv 48 10/11/02
lv 49 10/24/02
lv 50 11/23/02

My first zone was TF on 8/21/02 at level 38, under the leadership of Jalahon. This is less than two months after starting basically as a new player.

The dates shown indicate the time it took to level with only a basic understanding of the game and newbie equipment. Levelling Asher to 50 took significantly less time (perhaps slightly more than half the time). The difference being a good understanding of the game, including where to exp, and equipment hand-downs from Yarash. As my first and only evil character, and given the fact that this was during the evil exodus to homelands, I feel Asher's levelling time could have been improved further if done under the current pbase.

- Mike
Sarell
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Postby Sarell » Sun Oct 26, 2003 12:59 am

again...

upgrade trophy, make it do something, and lower exp tables. Then you will get exp from zoning and stem to problem of failing res at 50 now that lvl 46+ exp made harder
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Postby Mitharx » Mon Oct 27, 2003 4:23 pm

*applauds Sarell*
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Postby Mitharx » Mon Oct 27, 2003 4:24 pm

*applauds Sarell*
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Postby othelil » Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:45 pm

What would be nice, and is probably too difficult, would be rethinking how "experience" is gained.

Let's face it, after I've killed a treant about, let's say five times, I'm not going to learn much more from killing that treant. But killing a mob I have never killed, ever before, should give me new insight. In other words, I would be more "experienced" from fighting the new mob, almost no matter the level (trouncing on a bunny is pretty obviously excluded). But the experience gained after the first encounter, especially if it is not terribly difficult, would drop off dramatically.

In other words, I think the most experience should come from mobiles that you have never fought before. Quests that you complete for the first time should all have some kind of experience built in. Areas that you have never been to should yield experience in some way.

In other words, I think rewarding players for exploring would be the ideal solution to experience. Going to new places and trying new things is truly how people learn in real life, but in the mud such things are typically only punished by happening upon high level aggressive mobs. If that unfortunate aspect of exploring were well balanced by experience benefits for going places you've never been before and fighting new mobs then exploring would become an integral part of being a new player.

In fact, if you upped the experience tables across the board but made experience negligible after three kills on any one mob, you would force players to explore. If you succeeded in revamping it well enough, you could almost guarantee (power leveling would be an issue) that any player who made it to level 50 had explored 50% of the mud or more, depending on how you rig it. Right now a character can quite easily, and many do, make it to 40+ or even 50 without having stepped outside the "typical" exp zones around WD. That is the biggest problem I see.

At the very least, I think that zone experience should be increased, and ressurrection's effect on exp decreased. Make dying hurt more, but make it so the act of doing the zone offers more experience. This should balance out. Lets face it, even if I have done it ten times, I'm going to learn more from a difficult run through Seelie or SPoB than I am from slaughtering a treant 100 times. I'm not really gaining experience through repetition, I'm just getting bored and annoyed.

Also, both the exploring idea and the upping zone exp idea will make it so that more lower level groups might actually do lower level zones. Mostly lower level zones these days are for high level characters to rip through in one or two person groups. Give level 20's an excuse to go there. We know the equipment isn't worth it, but if doing new mobs and going to new areas gives good exp, they'll do as many zones on that credit list as they can find.

If you encourage people to explore and do small zones then they're going to know more and be worth more when they do make it to level 50 then any amount of reptition in DS would ever teach anyone. Also, we'll give those little used and underappreciated zones a bit of travel. Make those quests that produce worthless items give experience just for figuring them out and more of the fun little quests in the game will get done.

And then, guess what? People will have fun "doing exp," heaven forbid, and they'll learn more doing it too. What's so wrong with that?

</rant>
Despite the high cost of living it remains popular.
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Postby Mitharx » Wed Oct 29, 2003 8:50 pm

I would guess this thread is gonna die like any other xp posts I've seen before. Last bump on my part.

Any immortal interaction or other points of view or are we just done here?
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Postby Caedym » Wed Oct 29, 2003 9:55 pm

I feel with the MUD's 10+ years of playtesting experience, the current way the it handles experience, referring to exp grids/zones, is on target. I would hate to think that doing clouds or jot you'd suddenly find yourself loosing more experience then you went in with because you were trophied on the numerous similar mobs found within the zone and couldn't make up what you lost in deaths.

If trophy meant something, it couldn't be too small, or players would simply ping-pong back and forth between two different zones to escape the trophy limitations.

If trophy meant something, it couldn't be too big either, or players would soon find themselves unable to experience in any zones of sufficient level. (a big problem for players who play at odd times and never seem to zone. You know the type of level 45+s that have never zoned before that I'm talking about.) And preventing a player from even acquiring levels is a faster way to get them to stop playing here then not being able to zone.

-Caedym Shadowhock
Last edited by Caedym on Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Caedym » Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:06 pm

I've been pwn'd by the BBS double post bug! Ack!
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Postby Dezzex » Thu Oct 30, 2003 8:44 am

I am somewhat partial to Othelil's idea about the harsh trophy but larger bonuses for new mobs. And I think the more extreme, the better.

On the other hand Caedym makes a good point that this will kill the exp value on some zones. However, for such cases I think we can instead set the trophy penalty to a range where it is currently at. I imagine implementing this would require a pair of exp values for mobs, one dealing with the actual points provided, the other as some sort of indication on how the mob affects trophy. Thus zone mobs will affect trophy little, but non-zone mobs by default will have an extreme effect on trophy.

Oh yeah, and I think it would be mightily spiffy to have eq that affects exp gained! Something like..
a helm of greater learning
Affects : INT By 9
Affects : EXP_BONUS by 2%

and for rare items you don't people power-leveling themselves with...
Affects : EXP_BONUS by -15%

Bahahaha
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Postby Caedym » Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:32 pm

Dezzex wrote:Oh yeah, and I think it would be mightily spiffy to have eq that affects exp gained! Something like..
a helm of greater learning
Affects : INT By 9
Affects : EXP_BONUS by 2%

and for rare items you don't people power-leveling themselves with...
Affects : EXP_BONUS by -15%

Bahahaha


That is a kind of sickly-sweet idea you have there. Too bad anyone could bypass the -exp% by simply making a trigger/alias to remove the worn/wielded items before you kill the mob. Similar to a condition trigger. But if the exp% affected you as long as you had it on your char, that would work for the -exp%. But then folks would stack up on the +exp% eq in their bags, eq slots, and inventories to gain insane amounts of bonuses to experience gained. Plus they could stock up on the +exp% to overbalance what they -exp would have them loosing.

A suggestion might be that items that modify exp% would be rare. But hello, this is Toril. It'd be twinked to death and soon every zone maker would want to have bigger and better exp% eq for their zones.

I suppose if it was setup so only one item could ever affect a character, this might help it to work. Looks like a logistical coding nightmare tho.


-Caedym Shadowhock

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