Elementalists

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
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Elementalists

Postby kiryan » Thu Nov 13, 2003 9:59 pm

i said it 1.5 years ago, i'll say it again. broken

you can't give a class power word blind, stone, healing ability, and unlimited pets and have it be anything less than the ultimate twinking machine.

a subset of the suggestions below would help reduce elementalists ability to solo.

Embody (healing ability)
1. make ele embody not grant base hps just the hp max
2. make it an undispellable effect so it cant be used as ghetto heal.
3. 2-3x per day

Elementals (suicide fire elemental twink)
1. 75 per week
2. 25 moves per summon (!allow moves < 0)
3. make it random again
4. reduce the damage unshielded mobs take from striking fire elementals

Seplls:
1. remove power word blind (or leave it if you make enough other changes)
2. down the damage on their single target spells (specifically earthblood)

What elementalists can do is pretty sick and their arsenal contains some of the twinkiest abilities in the game. If this is a nod to the soloists game then can we stop downgrading eq because its too easy (elementalists can solo it)?
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
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Re: Elementalists

Postby othelil » Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:52 pm

kiryan wrote:i said it 1.5 years ago, i'll say it again. broken

you can't give a class power word blind, stone, healing ability, and unlimited pets and have it be anything less than the ultimate twinking machine.

a subset of the suggestions below would help reduce elementalists ability to solo.

Embody (healing ability)
1. make ele embody not grant base hps just the hp max
2. make it an undispellable effect so it cant be used as ghetto heal.
3. 2-3x per day

Elementals (suicide fire elemental twink)
1. 75 per week
2. 25 moves per summon (!allow moves < 0)
3. make it random again
4. reduce the damage unshielded mobs take from striking fire elementals

Seplls:
1. remove power word blind (or leave it if you make enough other changes)
2. down the damage on their single target spells (specifically earthblood)

What elementalists can do is pretty sick and their arsenal contains some of the twinkiest abilities in the game. If this is a nod to the soloists game then can we stop downgrading eq because its too easy (elementalists can solo it)?


Changes are fine, but were you planning on just general downgrades because you don't like us, or were you going to balance these changes with something to make us more viable for things _besides_ solo? If you just thrash the class you're going to severely limit their viability for any role. If you want to change it so we're not soloing machines, fine, but then make us more group friendly. What are you offering on that end?
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Postby Silsaterur » Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:58 pm

Hate to say it, but he has some valid points.

It takes some patients, but an elementalist can solo most any mob that doesn't track. (And some that do..) I solo exp in the druid santuary. I've solo'd in mielich... and until another group showed up. I was soloing most of the pirate ship.

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Re: Elementalists

Postby irta » Thu Nov 13, 2003 11:05 pm

kiryan wrote:i said it 1.5 years ago, i'll say it again. broken

you can't give a class power word blind, stone, healing ability, and unlimited pets and have it be anything less than the ultimate twinking machine.

a subset of the suggestions below would help reduce elementalists ability to solo.

Embody (healing ability)
1. make ele embody not grant base hps just the hp max
2. make it an undispellable effect so it cant be used as ghetto heal.
3. 2-3x per day

Elementals (suicide fire elemental twink)
1. 75 per week
2. 25 moves per summon (!allow moves < 0)
3. make it random again
4. reduce the damage unshielded mobs take from striking fire elementals

Seplls:
1. remove power word blind (or leave it if you make enough other changes)
2. down the damage on their single target spells (specifically earthblood)

What elementalists can do is pretty sick and their arsenal contains some of the twinkiest abilities in the game. If this is a nod to the soloists game then can we stop downgrading eq because its too easy (elementalists can solo it)?


Elementalists are a tradeoff. Good soloing ability in exchange for not being essential to most zones. I could as easily argue that invokers are overpowered, but I understand that they are a tradeoff too (good zone damage in exchange for lesser soloing ability). Your suggestions would ruin elementalists both for soloing and zoning.

It's been said before but I'll say it again anything that an elementalist can solo can be done (oftentimes better) by two players. So the eq is still going to be easy to get.

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Re: Elementalists

Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Thu Nov 13, 2003 11:39 pm

irta wrote:Elementalists are a tradeoff. Good soloing ability in exchange for not being essential to most zones. I could as easily argue that invokers are overpowered, but I understand that they are a tradeoff too (good zone damage in exchange for lesser soloing ability). Your suggestions would ruin elementalists both for soloing and zoning.

It's been said before but I'll say it again anything that an elementalist can solo can be done (oftentimes better) by two players. So the eq is still going to be easy to get.

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Re: Elementalists

Postby Sesexe » Thu Nov 13, 2003 11:44 pm

othelil wrote:Changes are fine, but were you planning on just general downgrades because you don't like us, or were you going to balance these changes with something to make us more viable for things _besides_ solo? If you just thrash the class you're going to severely limit their viability for any role. If you want to change it so we're not soloing machines, fine, but then make us more group friendly. What are you offering on that end?


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Re: Elementalists

Postby othelil » Fri Nov 14, 2003 12:36 am

Sesexe wrote:OMFG!! Hey guys, check it out! The shortest Othelil response ever!!

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I was trying hard, just for you :)

Seriously though, all downgrades and no other changes/upgrades = crap. We're not _that_ overpowered. You'll just make us join the rangers in guarding fountains. Besides which, just taking out blind would kill the vast majority of our soloing ability right there, might as well only ask for one downgrade and go straight for the heart rather than make a big show of it.

I have sheets full of useful changes I think could be made to elementalists to make us better at groups and worse at soloing... but that just swings the other way, another group class. Are we trying to head toward a group that needs one of every class to be optimal? Niche, niche, niche.
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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Fri Nov 14, 2003 3:18 am

i agree for the mostpart. the downgrades seem kinda harsh, but the one i completely DISAGREE with is the change to earthblood. This is about the only way they can do damage. lava burst, their one "good" area isn't even that devastating. Their definate power comes from the "twinking" of mentals. If you made mobs track to the master of the pet after the pet died or was incap'd it would prevent some of this. other than that, less dmg from fireshield is a VERY valid idea.

Somehow limiting the number of elementals that an elementalist can summon is definately an idea, but the number per game hour or game week should be arbitrary. Also, if you limit the number of elementals you can summon severely enough, making them a bit buffer could be an alternative.

But yes, the elementalist, as a whole, is too buff.

When it comes down to it, i can see no good reason not to just negate their existance as a whole. And take out illusionists while you're at it. Just leave necros/vokers/chanters and let them fight over the mage slots.
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Postby Gura » Fri Nov 14, 2003 3:30 am

pwb should be removed completely and cleric blind should be upgraded.
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Postby kiryan » Fri Nov 14, 2003 3:58 am

Downing their single target damage isn't going to reduce their desireability for groups. They still get embodyment, ward, area damage, and suicide pets, gate and relocate. You don't do a who elementalist when your looking for damage. It will impact their ability to solo significantly (send mental in rush in throw a dam spell flee out) and it will impact the speed at which they level significantly.

i dont want all the suggestions i made implemented maybe just a couple ones would reduce the EQ solo ability to inline with that of a ench/illusionist/lich without downgrading them in their usefulness in zone groups.

The worst twink imo is the suicide fire elementals. However, suicide pets are something they can provide that makes them useful to zone groups in scouting. It'd suck to have that capped, but you can solo a room full of agressive, !tracking !heal mobs with enough fire elementals and time with no risk. NO RISK.

How about making agressive mobs who dont have major globe !agro fire elementals? Then twink is reduced to mobs that dont DI and you get pancaked if you forget to refresh invis.
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
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Postby Tuga » Fri Nov 14, 2003 5:05 am

I havent got a Elementalist ;) but I have to ask the question!

What EQ can they solo that ppl are so worried about?

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Postby Thilindel » Fri Nov 14, 2003 5:19 am

If you said it a year and a half ago..then saying it again, bleh? Just because you don't like elementalist class is fine. It's not up to one person, thank god, to decide an entire class needs downgrade. :P All the 'twink' eq has been nuked so hard it's not funny. Talk about elementalist envy :(
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Postby old depok » Fri Nov 14, 2003 1:11 pm

Who cares if an elementalist can solo a zone if it takes them 10-20 hours to do so?
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Postby Thilindel » Fri Nov 14, 2003 2:26 pm

Actually, I just remembered when Nokie solo'd amulet of sight. Downgrade him? :P Solo'g is a 'feature' as that word is so much tossed around. What's so damned great about solo'g is when one is not on peak hours, grouping is rather hard sometimes. This gives a player an avenue to remain content. If ele's got whacked, then necro/lich would be next. They're machines just the same. I've had 3 well known lich players argue that a) they'd own any ele in arena. b) tell me they can solo anything (mostly) I could. c) are way better in groups. Fire embody isn't all that it's cracked up to be because REAL mobs (talking zoning here) are always globed, so the tank w/his 1300+ embodied hps don't mean anything other than extra hps.
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Postby Bilraex » Fri Nov 14, 2003 3:09 pm

downgrading classes cause some people can solo shit is stupid, some of us actually like the challenge of soloing things, if something is being solo'd too easy then the area makers should talk with the person who solo'd it and find out how to make it tougher. Id gladly offer suggestions on how to change mobs in a zone to make it harder to solo. most of the time its one simple tweak that changes the whole fight.
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it's all relative..

Postby Guw » Fri Nov 14, 2003 6:49 pm

An elementalist taking 30mins to solo a mob that can be done in 10mins by a two man group, well i just don't see a problem with it.

If ele's were *that* overpowered then more than one would be required per zone group? And as mentioned above Dug's eq changes were an effective downgrade to solo-artists.

In various posts I've been reading lately I've seen:

downgrade elementalist
downgrade invoker
downgrade illusionist
downgrade enchanter

Once "melee has been balanced" by improving the melee classes (however that happens, and I'm looking forward to it!) maybe these downgrade posts will reduce?
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Postby Ace » Fri Nov 14, 2003 7:20 pm

Downgrade ele's? WTF, I'll kill you all =)

Ace
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Postby thanuk » Fri Nov 14, 2003 7:21 pm

Ace wrote:Downgrade ele's? WTF, I'll kill you all =)

Ace


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Postby mynazzaraxxsyn » Fri Nov 14, 2003 8:33 pm

thanuk wrote:Finkel is Einhorn! Einhorn is Finkel!


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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Sat Nov 15, 2003 5:50 am

Once "melee has been balanced" by improving the melee classes (however that happens, and I'm looking forward to it!) maybe these downgrade posts will reduce?


Even if melee got a HUGE swing for the better, casters will still be the solo artists. Some moreso than others. That is probbably what is spawning these posts. i highly doubt that they will be much changed.
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Postby irta » Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:43 am

Delmair Aamoren wrote:
Once "melee has been balanced" by improving the melee classes (however that happens, and I'm looking forward to it!) maybe these downgrade posts will reduce?


Even if melee got a HUGE swing for the better, casters will still be the solo artists. Some moreso than others. That is probbably what is spawning these posts. i highly doubt that they will be much changed.


The eq changes have rendered soloing for eq pretty much a waste of time. Once people who complain about our soloing ability realize this, I do think these posts will go go down.

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Postby Teyaha » Sat Nov 15, 2003 4:17 pm

the imbalance is that elementalists have an iffective, non-intended way of healing themselves rather well. only a lich can dish out damage and heal itself (as it should be. going lich is hard that's why there isnt more of them).

i dont know how this could work, except making the spell 'other people' only.

pwb also lets ellies solo mobs a necro cant because of the switching code. after level 50 this is moot, when doing xp it's a HUGE difference. it limits what a necro can xp on substantially. i been going throughthe treadmill lately and now have a 41 necro. i dont know that you can ask liches who got 50 two years ago when some xp was actually easier (before grids got downed and when dk gave ridiculous xp and mobs didnt switch they just bashed you). hell i'm always asking the liches i see 'what's a good place to xp as a necro 41+' and they always reply 'hell if i know, havent done xp in years'.

so it's best to compare the elementalist to the necro, not the lich. because at level 50 ellies and necros/liches are pretty much on par.
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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:48 pm

so it's best to compare the elementalist to the necro, not the lich. because at level 50 ellies and necros/liches are pretty much on par.


I completely disagree. Once liches have their undead, they're quite a bit more powerful than an elementalist. But this thread isn't about necros or liches, it's about elementalists.

The eq changes have rendered soloing for eq pretty much a waste of time. Once people who complain about our soloing ability realize this, I do think these posts will go go down.

the Irta


Once again, i disagree. as long as there are people out there just worry about numbers and not having fun, and just expect the world and life to be "fair" there will always be penis envy

I myself, have an elementalist approaching 50. I personally got very bored of it.
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Postby Mitharx » Sat Nov 15, 2003 8:24 pm

Side note for lichs. The switch code helps me xp. The only place it affects my soloability is tracking (not dim'ing) and bashing mobs. This is where pwb is the big advantage.
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Postby kiryan » Sun Nov 16, 2003 1:19 am

The ability list is very complete and I've even left out a few spells because I heard they don't land that often.

stone
heal (embody)
vit (embody)
pwb
feeb
good single target damage
good area damage
bonus elemental damage
silence (short duration, high success rate on unhex/cursed mobs)
para (earthblood)
better than globe (ward)
gate / relocate
unlimited pets (can even choose which type)
fog multiple rooms

If this is the standard for "non essential" classes then I take back everything bad I've ever said about rangers. You guys got it in the ass with no lubricant.

I suggest you remove or significantly hamper a couple key abilities or downgrade several. Why does every elementalist spell seem to have an extra kicker ability?
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
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Postby Ambar » Sun Nov 16, 2003 2:25 am

wait til your necro gets higher, togel ... you will see the difference ... sure elementalists have some GREAT qualities, but are pretty powerless compared to necro/lich ... PWB is nice .. when it hits ... stone durations isnt all that great, nor are silence,stun, or para.

Elementalists are the masters of the spirits, necro/lich the master of the dead .. each class has its benefits solo, but necro/lich are better in groups .. embody is GREAT but death pact is better ....

why does everyone seem to be screaming downgrade lately? let those of us who like to solo have our little fun (yes it takes FOREVER) ... imho elementalists arent overpowered ... if youw ant overpowered and easy as hell .. try the NEW necro ...

As far as I can tell there are no great changes coming to elementalists, so *someone* thinks they are fine as-is ... i can't see any real need to change much ...

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Postby Teyaha » Sun Nov 16, 2003 2:39 am

actually it's been mentioned before by a coder or two that elementalists have an 'unintended side effect of being able to heal themselves'.

i expect that to be changed.

and delmair, you're an anti. play a necro (not a LICH) and you'll see the difference. there are a handful of mobs you can safely xp on after 40, and many of those dont give much xp. switching mobs will switch every round, end up on your weaker pet, kill it quick unless you come in and order your spectre to rescue.

problem: you get rescue lag too! so you order rescue, successful rescue, mob switches again - and you're dead cause at this level mobs just beat ass. you cant go invis because those same mobs that give great xp also see invis.

here's a good solution: do something with hp's terrible xp. xp was downed twice because they were easy mechant mobs. then it was made pathetic xp, then they were all made warrior mobs!! put their xp more in line with warrior mobs from other zones plz, like IC. gives the populace more choices to xp.

so it is different. the ferns in ds (north ones) are the only mobs i've found that give good xp that dont switch. name me more mobs and locations, or play a necro.

i had a 50 conjie on soj2. was good fun. soloing was incredible. get an earth mental, give it a shield and an enchanted weapon (we had enchant weapon), haste it, stone it, and watch it just beat ass. much fun! i solo'd to 50.

i watch elementalists solo without pets. they embody, stone themselves, maybe quaff an armor potion, go in and feeble level 50 priest casters mobs then dump all offense. stone wears out, they flee, dispel themselves of embody and recast it (instant full heal!!), mem, restone, repeat.

i watched a level 34 elementalist solo level 50 casters like this for hours. he was getting two-three levels every few hours.

but y'know what, i dont care if they are that powerful solo. the problem is that you get people soloing to 50 then put them in a group. whoops! they have no idea wtf they supposed to do in a group!!!

elementalists are great in groups. stone, haste, embodiment are great for xp.

please keep in mind as we bash classes that there is more to the game than just the end game zone stuff. lots of proposed downgrades would seriously hurt some classes ability to do xp.
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Postby Caecara Kaletasere » Sun Nov 16, 2003 7:19 am

One thing I noticed, potions were also mentioned in here somewhere, if I remember...and healing potions aren't hard to get, nor armor, invis, etc. Also spells like stone and vit, weapons that can proc various spells to help. So really, anyone can have the ability to heal themselves. With and without potions, though more with, I've heard of chanters, druids, yes even invokers who can 'solo' quite a bit, because the people found ways and learned the skills. Lots of time and effort are put into learning how.

Yes, this is a mud based on trying to keep people using groups to get anything useful. Does this mean that the option to solo at times is not there at all? I certainly hope not. If it was, people who have only scarce amounts of time will be leaving the mud very quickly because there's nothing left that's 'fun' and maybe challenging to do with the time they can have.

And maybe I missed it, but with eq changes, how is it that most soloable eq comes anywhere near eq that is impossible to get without large groups?
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Postby Burpie » Sun Nov 16, 2003 6:49 pm

kiryan wrote:. . .I suggest you remove or significantly hamper a couple key abilities or downgrade several. Why does every elementalist spell seem to have an extra kicker ability?


What is it with the Elementalist envy? Next is druid/shaman according to your logic maybe? Druid: Mass transport, dragging spells, vit/heal (as you redundantly listed for embody), mass blind, elemental bonus to spells, disarm chance, etc..Just let it drop will ya? You seem to be one person telling everybody that they need downgrading because YOU don't think the class is fair. Even on another thread, some 40th lvl troll warrior claims to solo some non-track 56th warrior mobs. You'll eventually get to him next right? Then there's shaman - (with insite) they can twink their way to any mob a friend conveniently left a fresh corpse at..blah blah blah. This thread is just full of envy. I'd suggest dropping it.
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Postby Mitharx » Sun Nov 16, 2003 7:31 pm

There is no reason to be aggressive here. Many of the higher level mentalists know how powerful their particular combination of spells can be. This doesn't meant hey want to be downgraded, but they know. At the same time, there are many other classes who can do some really cool stuff by using their full potential. I'd say the big difference between them and metnalists is PWB. It just makes mentalists uber enough to solo things.

That being said, they're not really all that uber. You have a last slot available in most zones and you can get a mentalists or extra damage from a necro/lich/voker, you usually pick one of the later three.

Mentalists can do some really cool stuff and I do think they're a bit more powerful than other classes through their combination of spells, but I don't think they're a threat to the balance of the game because it does take them a long time to get things accomplished. The things that really dont' take that long to get really arent' going to throw the game outta balance (especially after downgrades).

The trick in the end is this game does come down to what you mean in a group. It's generally how they try to balance classes. After all, warriors suck, but you don't go through many zones without at least two warriors. Mentalists are very useful in zones, but they're often considered not as useful as people that can dish out tons of damage in a short amount of time and so are left out. In big zones and utility vs. damage, utility usually loses.

Mentalists are great solo'ers, but keep on the necro or whatever other class (besides ranger:) and you'll most likely end up in groups more often.
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Postby Sizzraxxil » Sun Nov 16, 2003 8:59 pm

I thought I'd just comment on this list of spells/abilities..

stone - good
heal (embody) - good.. prob wasn't intended and never got around to fixing it
vit (embody) - good.. but it was always meant to be there.. remove the healing and this isn't that AMAZING
pwb - kick ass
feeb - kick ass
good single target damage - kind of.. and why don't you just say earthblood because thats our only good one.. and it doesn't work on.. I'd say about 15-20% of stuff in zones (in general)
good area damage - not really no
bonus elemental damage - by this I assume you mean the cold/fire based damage spells.. ya its good when you can use it but in general.. not really that good
silence (short duration, high success rate on unhex/cursed mobs) - not a high success rate really
para (earthblood) - why does everyone say this? its like we can cast paralyze or something.. we CAN'T.. in fact I'd say its almost more of an annoyance really then a benefit
better than globe (ward) - its better yes.. shorter duration though so almost never used in zones.. least on evil side
gate / relocate - kick ass
unlimited pets (can even choose which type) - kick ass.. even if they small
fog multiple rooms - uhh.. woot? this isn't all that amazing.. least I don't think so

I been playing a conj/mentalist for some 6-7 years now.. I know pretty much all the in's and out's of the class.. can we twink/solo a lot of stuff.. yes. Do I think we are way over powered.. good god no.

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Postby Yayaril » Mon Nov 17, 2003 4:48 am

8)

Actually, I did tests with ward and globe and they have the exact same duration.
Ace
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Postby Ace » Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:46 pm

why don't we just get rid of the spells conjure, pwb, and embody. That should make it harder for them to solo. Why should ele's be able to solo anyways? It's not like that is what their class is ment for or anything.

Ace
thanuk
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Postby thanuk » Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:54 pm

Ace wrote:why don't we just get rid of the spells conjure, pwb, and embody. That should make it harder for them to solo. Why should ele's be able to solo anyways? It's not like that is what their class is ment for or anything.

Ace


Then I'd lose 40 lbs, PORKIN HIS WIFE!!!!!!!!!!!
Alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiighhhhhhhhhttttttttyyyyyyyyyy then.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
Ace
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Postby Ace » Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:57 pm

Thanuk you fat bastard.

Ace
mynazzaraxxsyn
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Postby mynazzaraxxsyn » Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:58 pm

thanuk wrote:
Ace wrote:why don't we just get rid of the spells conjure, pwb, and embody. That should make it harder for them to solo. Why should ele's be able to solo anyways? It's not like that is what their class is ment for or anything.

Ace


Then I'd lose 40 lbs, PORKIN HIS WIFE!!!!!!!!!!!
Alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiighhhhhhhhhttttttttyyyyyyyyyy then.


Maybe its the fact that it is only 10am but I don't understand the point of this comment Thanuk... I just don't get it.

PS your dad is 10x better then your mom
Lilithelle stops using a softly throbbing piece of flesh.
Gura group-says 'ill go solo the biznatch, just don't tell Stamm'
Kossuth responds to your petition with 'is it bad that the two words i think of when i see yer title are hottub and cthulhu? :('
thanuk
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Postby thanuk » Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:08 pm

mynazzaraxxsyn wrote:
Maybe its the fact that it is only 10am but I don't understand the point of this comment Thanuk... I just don't get it.

PS your dad is 10x better then your mom


His name is Ace. That's the point.

p.s. my dad has herpes. Sucks for you.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
Dlur
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Postby Dlur » Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:10 pm

Ace wrote:why don't we just get rid of the spells conjure, pwb, and embody. That should make it harder for them to solo. Why should ele's be able to solo anyways? It's not like that is what their class is ment for or anything.

Ace


Go back to fighting crime in your tight suit along with Gary. Leave your ambiguousness out of this.
Ghimok|Dlur|Emeslan|Ili|Zinse|Teniv
*~~~~~~~~~~*
"Censorship is telling a man he can't eat a steak just because a baby can't chew it." - Mark Twain
Ace
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Postby Ace » Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:18 pm

What is ambiguous about what I said?
mynazzaraxxsyn
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Postby mynazzaraxxsyn » Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:51 pm

thanuk wrote:p.s. my dad has herpes. Sucks for you.


Yeah I gave them to him.
Lilithelle stops using a softly throbbing piece of flesh.
Gura group-says 'ill go solo the biznatch, just don't tell Stamm'
Kossuth responds to your petition with 'is it bad that the two words i think of when i see yer title are hottub and cthulhu? :('
thanuk
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Postby thanuk » Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:54 pm

mynazzaraxxsyn wrote:Yeah I gave them to him.


Yeah I heard you got them from a Sailor you met at TGI Fridays. But how did your dog get them?
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
Ambar
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Postby Ambar » Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:55 pm

eww yuck :(

one again the sailor gets the bad name :P
"When a child is born, so is a grandmother."



-Italian Proverb
Vahok
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Postby Vahok » Mon Nov 17, 2003 4:43 pm

Ace wrote:What is ambiguous about what I said?


ROFL! I guess you don't (didn't) watch Saturday Night Live much huh?
Meatshield
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Postby Ace » Mon Nov 17, 2003 4:49 pm

I understood what the joke was, was unclear on why he said it.
[48 Elementalist] Acedizaken (Duergar) (RP)
Dlur
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Postby Dlur » Mon Nov 17, 2003 5:43 pm

Ace wrote:I understood what the joke was, was unclear on why he said it.


Just because your name is "Ace" and I am a prick. Don't read too much into it. At least you're probably not as gay as Thanuk's dad ( I hope)
Ghimok|Dlur|Emeslan|Ili|Zinse|Teniv

*~~~~~~~~~~*

"Censorship is telling a man he can't eat a steak just because a baby can't chew it." - Mark Twain
Ace
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Postby Ace » Mon Nov 17, 2003 5:51 pm

I completley forgot it was ace and gary.... yea was a funny joke then........damnit

nah not even ace and gary are that gay compared to thanuks dad.
[48 Elementalist] Acedizaken (Duergar) (RP)
Lenefir
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Postby Lenefir » Tue Nov 18, 2003 10:34 am

Yayaril wrote:Actually, I did tests with ward and globe and they have the exact same duration.

Ward >> Globe. Same duration, but ward prevents chipping of stone/scale, and those spells a globe can stop high level mobs so to say never cast, but most elementalists are reluctant to mem it because they lose another damage spell.

And as a side note, tweak too much with elementalist spells and you tweak enchanters too... *mutter*
"Being God isn't easy. If you do too much, people get dependent on you; and if you do nothing, they lose hope. You have to use a light touch [...]. When you do things right, people won't be sure you have done anything at all"
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kiryan
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Postby kiryan » Wed Nov 19, 2003 4:10 am

so delete the damage spell then there is no issue with meming ward.

ok so that wasn't very constructive.

I just think elementalists are a little too complete with the update 1.5 years ago and the fire elemental thing has always been just ridiculous but at least it was dangerous (summoning large hard to dispel agro elementals) and more time consuming (elementals were random with a propensity to be earth or water) before.

The rather decent damage output I think is a little too strong. racheting it down a notch or two will reduce leveling rate and up the time on soloing endeavors.

Some of the other things I suggest would eliminate solo ability pretty much completely, so I think that reducing damage + eliminating the suicide mental twink would be reasonable without destroying the class. They have a lot to offer a zone group with or without 200 extra damage per spell.
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
Gromikazer
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Postby Gromikazer » Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:37 am

I have to disagree with you kiryan. Elementalists while, have a decent level of power, it isn't above an elementalist, or above a lich, or above a druid, or above an enchanter. Each one of these classes can solo. Different situations suit them differently.

The healing effect from embody, while nice, is neither fast, nor fun to use. It sometimes takes up to a minute for the embody to fade (waiting for a tick) and thats not including 10 seconds to cast it, and several seconds to dispel it, then to mem it all back. I've spent 5+ minutes healing myself before.

Earthblood is good damage for a elementalist, but there is two major things you should know. It does not work on undead, or golems, or plants, or wraithforms, extremely limiting what it can be used against. Other then Earthblood, all our other single target spells suck. Someone mentioned earlier that approx. 20% of the mobs are immune to earthblood. I have mentioned this to other people, but I think its closer to 30% of mobs, that you either a) want to solo, or b) in zone situations. The second thing about earthblood, while it has a small (less then 5% I calculate) chance to para, it often times takes a minute to land, and the paralyze effect lasts for only a minute, then almost like clockwork the mob is on me, rather then a pet or a warrior. I would prefer that this effect was removed.

I have yet to solo a mob, by sending in a fire elemental while im' not in the room. That situation is almost non-existant where as I would be willing to waste 30 minutes to find a !track mob, that doesn't have fireshield, that is agro, so i don't have to go in the room. The situations are far and inbetween. The few situations that this does exist, often times they are clerics that can heal themselves.

Ward in alot of situations is superflous, including the many times there is a necro or a lich in the group, when they can have 3 wraiths globe all the hitters in 10 seconds.

Elementalist damage output, I would not rate, as even being in the top 5. The only situation that an elementalist can be considered any kind of good damage is in fp/brass, when we have a couple cold area spells. In those situations though, we lose our 10th circle area, we lose our ability to fire embody (healing the mobs is bad) and we almost can't use earthblood.

I think your seeing the situation through rose colored glasses, and chanting the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. It is not the case. Elementalists are fun soemtimes to play, and in some VERY limited situations that can do very well, but overall accross the board, they are medicore.
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Postby Ace » Wed Nov 19, 2003 3:46 pm

kiryan wrote:Some of the other things I suggest would eliminate solo ability pretty much completely


You don't think ele's should be able to solo?

Did i read that right?

Ace
[48 Elementalist] Acedizaken (Duergar) (RP)

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