Question for Goodies who tried Evilrace

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.

I tried Evilrace but stopped because:

Poll ended at Sat Dec 13, 2003 3:38 am

Exp (too hard, too boring, etc)
5
8%
Groups (not enough players, too elitist, etc.)
5
8%
Missed my goodie life, or it was just funner (char, friends, etc.)
6
9%
Evilrace players attitudes
30
47%
Handout EQ-split method
3
5%
Dicing EQ-split method
0
No votes
It was too hard.
1
2%
It was too boring.
5
8%
Other. I will state why briefly and without flaming.
9
14%
 
Total votes: 64
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Question for Goodies who tried Evilrace

Postby Sesexe » Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:38 am

This poll is also for anyone who started evil and then went goodie.

Please keep it civil. I'd like to see what's been our main downfalls.

Because I care.
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Postby Snurgt » Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:52 am

Not enuf people my level on to group with most of the time.

Though whenever there was a tank sitting around they would exp me no problem, which was k3wl.
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other

Postby Abbayarra » Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:11 am

I enjoy playing a goodie much more than I enjoy playing my evil shaman, plus I know a lot more goodies.
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Postby Alomlim » Sun Nov 23, 2003 9:10 am

downfalls:

1. eq downgrades, still recovering

2. a very few evilrace players are so abrasive and inflammatory as to ruin the scene

-Alomlim / Soroth / Vhagar
Last edited by Alomlim on Sun Nov 23, 2003 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ambar » Sun Nov 23, 2003 4:13 pm

threads like this always start a flamewar ... not a good idea :(

Stauch goodies will say goodies are better ..
Staunch evil will say evils are better ...
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Postby Sesexe » Sun Nov 23, 2003 5:03 pm

Ambar wrote:threads like this always start a flamewar ... not a good idea :(

Stauch goodies will say goodies are better ..
Staunch evil will say evils are better ...


Not asking to know which side is better. Asking for the reason people stopped playing their evilrace chars in a dignified and adult manner.

Do not want to know the exact, precise, personal reason(s) why some one stopped, that's why I left things so open-ended. I don't want to know names or who did what or any of that. If a person had multiple reasons for not playing their evilrace anymore, think of the most powerful or most abundant reason and select that. In other words, what category above did most of your reasons fall into?

Thank you for being adults in this matter and keeping it that way. I appreciate everyone's participation.
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Postby Vahok » Sun Nov 23, 2003 5:24 pm

Tried evil race a couple times now, currently have a mid level shammie.
Problem for me is two part. He's an ogre, and the pray times can really be a drag. Two, I find the exping of running the circle in DK to be very boring.
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Postby Vassana » Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:00 pm

I've tried two evils so far. But returned to goodie life because of some of the attitudes I encountered. For the most part I wanted to lead little zones and xp groups and was well accepted for doing that because there were so few low/mid tanks at the time. Really enjoyed that, but a few of the ppl I grouped with were alts that kind of derided me for having "goodie" eq on my evil. It was a toss up whether I was wanted or not. Knew I would be on the goodie side.

There are lots of good things about being an evil. I love to RP and there are a couple the best RP'ers on the Evil side. Nilan is the sweetest best guy on the mud in my book. Evils also have some really nuturing players also. I met Ambar in her many forms and felt really rewarded there also.

Evils are just more hardcore on most other parts of mudding. It just wanted to play a game and have fun. Some of the attitudes about zoning, eq and what was expected of a player took some of the fun out it. Nothing personal, just the way things are. In a way I respect that. The focus of importance was just on other things than what I valued.

If I could "convert" one of my high level goodie chars over to evil I would because I really dont want to level up or eq a evil. Think thats a better idea than letting goodies and evils group.
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Postby Mitharx » Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:06 am

There are some really cool evil people.
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Postby Werg » Mon Nov 24, 2003 3:00 pm

A little off topic, I apologize. But I started an evil race character many many years ago. Werg was originally a Berserker. And as you can see, he's been my main char since then. I always felt unique *because* I was one of few instead of one of many. I like the fact that things were harder, gave me a sense of accomplishment. It actually started to anger me a little when being an evil race character became easy. Trolls and Duergars are just right. Yuanti too hard, Drow too easy. But I still love the evils. :)
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Postby ssar » Mon Nov 24, 2003 10:50 pm

Wow I'm surpirsed with the current poll standings - such a big % blame some player attitudes.
I have found a similar range of player attitudes accross both good and evilrace, over the years really.

I will persist with my evil chars, alebit slowly prolly.
Mainly cuz I enjoy goodrace gameplay more overall, more familiar with the colours of gates, safe/popular walking routes, etc., much more likely to zone, more able to chat with longtime online friends, and of course my evils suck a lot more with the recent eq changes.

The adventure and learning of more of the ways/areas popular in the evilrace hunting is refreshing though, and man that troll regen rules.

On with the blood..
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Postby Waelos » Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:17 am

I tried playing a dire for a while. I found absolutely 0 people willing to group or even talk. Not sure this is an attitude thing or if it is just a lack of people or if the Dire has the same fate as the Ranger. . . (next to 0 usefulness).

Just my 2 cents!

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Postby Izisayyin » Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:41 am

ssar wrote:Wow I'm surpirsed with the current poll standings - such a big % blame some player attitudes.
I have found a similar range of player attitudes accross both good and evilrace, over the years really.

I will persist with my evil chars, alebit slowly prolly.
Mainly cuz I enjoy goodrace gameplay more overall, more familiar with the colours of gates, safe/popular walking routes, etc., much more likely to zone, more able to chat with longtime online friends, and of course my evils suck a lot more with the recent eq changes.

The adventure and learning of more of the ways/areas popular in the evilrace hunting is refreshing though, and man that troll regen rules.

On with the blood..


This really doesn't surprise me at all. I'm an evil, and I started as one, but I can fully understand what people are saying. There are a lot of really good, really helpful evils.

Unfortunately, some of the more prominent evils are *MAJOR* asses. It's enough to make you want to quit playing entirely.

On the whole, there's a decent balance of good players and bad players on both, evils just have a little band of people who need to be wiped from the planet.
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Postby moritheil » Wed Nov 26, 2003 8:12 pm

Morisquid:

1. get eq transferred.
2. level up.
3. die horribly due to having low hps and taking a crit, or to exploring.
4. spend 5 hours realizing that there is no way you are getting CRd.
5. obtain new eq using goodrace.
6. GOTO 1.

:roll:
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Postby Gura » Wed Nov 26, 2003 8:21 pm

wey when u had a dire so did like 20 other people.
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Postby Dacer » Wed Nov 26, 2003 9:52 pm

stupid invisible lizards that bash outside troll ht...
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Postby ssar » Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:54 pm

Dacer wrote:stupid invisible lizards that bash outside troll ht...


Nog those lizardmen are a good challenge just outside ghore.. Learning to run past/evade/outrun them makes for some sometimes annoying but overall fun times through the swamps/trollhills!
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Postby Crumar » Thu Nov 27, 2003 6:58 pm

When I started playing on S3 the first character I rolled was a evil spell casting drow. The player base at the time on the evil side was close to the good side but I knew from when I played on S2 as a goodie that evils had it harder and I wanted a challenge, since I was starting all over again. So I started solo leveling at first and what not, didn't ask nor really need help for eq because I wanted to earn everything on my own. So what made me leave you ask?

Well I will not flame anyone nor give names but some of the evil players over there have some major attitude problems. Some of the players think just because they are on the evil side makes them better somehow I don’t know why because frankly your not. Only evil players I have respect for are those that start as a yuan-ti and actually level themselves up in Hyssk without having their friends gate them out and power-level them in DK. Trolls sort of have it hard getting out of city too a bit but for the most part it can be managed. When I wanted to group with people after I got myself past level 20 I would get a tell asking me who I am or who I used to be etc. When I said I used to play a goodie character back on S2 player X would smirk while others would ignore me.

So why should I put up with that attitude when I can have fun elsewhere I asked myself. So after wasting close to 4 months on evil side I decided I would rather start all over on the good side not because it was a bit easier but because of the attitudes I encountered there. BTW the only really nice person that I grouped with on evil side was with Muma and her many alts those were some fun times. Its ironic that she played a goodie and a evil and had a grasp of both worlds and how to be a people person instead of a "no goodie policy" jerk. This is a game, your not the best because you have a evil character your are the same as anyone else who is on the good side. What makes you special is your willing to put up with the attitude and the current low player base. Anyone can really become a good player if they didn’t have to work a lot in the real world and committed the time and effort to only playing this game. Remember when you started playing you were once a newbie too and had it just as hard as some have it now. So if you want to help change the image of the evil player base tell those certain people to stop being jerks and to stop having a elitist attitude toward goodies. Seriously every time I encounter a evil now its like "oh I guess they are goodies they don’t know shit". Fine be a jerk to my goodie you just make it worse on yourselves and re-affirm why I am so glad I do not play a evil anymore. So I hope I gave you a better picture of what was going on and may still be going on with the evils over there.

Crumar.
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Postby Eza » Thu Nov 27, 2003 8:00 pm

My main problem was, that even with four high level goodies, EVERY single person I met on the evil side treated me like I was a complete newbie, even when my evil was level 47. That and the superiority thing made me go back. So yeah, the attitudes.
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Postby Jegzed » Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:09 pm

Eza wrote:My main problem was, that even with four high level goodies, EVERY single person I met on the evil side treated me like I was a complete newbie, even when my evil was level 47. That and the superiority thing made me go back. So yeah, the attitudes.


hehe.. same story as when I tried a goodie.
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Postby Teyaha » Fri Nov 28, 2003 4:04 am

i had too much time invested in teyaha, and couldnt possibly fathom redoing another enchanter. the first time was brutal.

look me up as my necro dessirrk. i'm always game to play. i wont deny, lots of folks here have superior attitudes but those wont change.

it's hard to start over once you've made a name for yourself on one side or the other. i went evil this wipe because drabyl went evil - we used to play together. if it werent for the fact that sok also came over with taelin, the O.G. twyl and if i hadnt met turg i prob would have turned back quick.

it was easier at wipe..not so easy to switch now.
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Postby Ragorn » Fri Nov 28, 2003 4:48 am

I rolled an evil once, was on S3. Drow necro. I'd never played a Sojourn necro before... hell never even grouped with one, because of the long standing alignment restrictions. I heard DK was easy and evils were nice so I gave it a shot.

I levelled to 11 or so pretty much solo, think I grouped with another lowbie for a few slave kills at one point. Exp was sorta slow by that point and I didn't know the city very well, or even how it was laid out. I asked a high level evil I sorta recognized where I could find some mobs after slaves or between pops, and his answer was:

Someone tells you 'DK'

Well.. yes, ok. I asked for more information. His reply was:

Someone tells you 'walk around and con mobs until you find one your level.'

...yes, ok. Thanks. I asked someone I didn't recognize, and his response is what made me delete my necro instantly.

Someone else tells you 'we don't really need any more necros, can you roll an enchanter or cleric?'

This was right around the time I decided to quit the mud entirely... never really made it known I was going to give evils a shot, I know I have friends and enemies and didn't want people to judge my performance in the game based on my forum posts. Just wanted to roll a character and try to let my actions speak for themselves. Decided that if I wanted to deal with jerks and unhelpful players I could play another game and level up much faster.

Treat your newbies like gold. Platinum, even. If you ignore them, I promise you they'll go away.
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Postby Dizzin » Fri Nov 28, 2003 1:51 pm

Ragorn wrote:Someone tells you 'walk around and con mobs until you find one your level.'

...yes, ok. Thanks. I asked someone I didn't recognize, and his response is what made me delete my necro instantly.


This made you delete your character? Huh? Was that somehow BAD advice? Was he/she somehow cruel to you? DK IS a place where you can just walk around and con mobs. If some goodie told you to go to BGR and con mobs, would THAT have caused you to delete? There's exp mobs for level 1-20 all OVER the damn place. (thanks Shev!) Ust Circle for example has mobs all over it around level 11, same with Drada, even Llarn. So just walking around and conning IS a useful tool. Not to mention TRUE newbies would probably take that oppurtunity to learn on their own.

And I'm sorry, but this to me is just another example of goodies expecting to be handed help to them on a silver platter, rather than going out and just trying to learn.

Not to mention it's QUITE possible that that evil you were talking to was actually busy, and maybe didn't have the time to go into detail to help some level 11 necro learn where there's good exp, when all it takes is a little exploration. I mean, DK is no hyssk. It's no big danger to look around the place.
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Postby Sylvos » Fri Nov 28, 2003 2:35 pm

I'm going to save rags some time and tell you to read the entirety of his post and quote it correctly before you bitch about it.

I rolled an evil once, was on S3. Drow necro. I'd never played a Sojourn necro before... hell never even grouped with one, because of the long standing alignment restrictions. I heard DK was easy and evils were nice so I gave it a shot.

I levelled to 11 or so pretty much solo, think I grouped with another lowbie for a few slave kills at one point. Exp was sorta slow by that point and I didn't know the city very well, or even how it was laid out. I asked a high level evil I sorta recognized where I could find some mobs after slaves or between pops, and his answer was:

Someone tells you 'DK'

Well.. yes, ok. I asked for more information. His reply was:

Someone tells you 'walk around and con mobs until you find one your level.'

...yes, ok. Thanks.


There's the first reference. Now we read on.

I asked someone I didn't recognize, and his response is what made me delete my necro instantly.

Someone else tells you 'we don't really need any more necros, can you roll an enchanter or cleric?'



Two separate instances, one response that wasn't all that helpful but ok, is liveable. The second completely invalidates his choice for a class, that he picked to have fun with and experience something new. To ask for help only to be told that the character you've started and put 11 levels into isn't going to be wanted, and to go start over?

Can't say I blame him. But then again, I hate bein told what to do. Regardless of what is 'needed' classwise, what is really needed are players who need to get hooked, and then they may decide to play something else. But this other evil Rags asked, the unknown one, restricted his aid to if Ragorn would roll the class the higher level wanted.

Very uncool. Also likely awhile ago, so things may have changed.
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Postby Dizzin » Fri Nov 28, 2003 3:00 pm

Okies, my bad. I misread his first paragraph.

Oh well.

And as for that second tell.. Well.. the person could have said it better, but frankly, it's true. You can roll whatever character you want for fun, and I'm all for it. But without more clerics or shamans, you wont be doing much zoning. :(

Edit: Man, remind me not to post before my morning caffeine high.

I agree Sylvos. First hook the player by letting him play whatever he wants, THEN sucker them into playing a cleric! Sounds familiar to you I bet!

Though I still dont think it hurts to encourage them, gently, to play one of the needed classes from the outset. If they do, great. If they dont, oh well, it's still another player.

Okies! Coffee-time!
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Postby Sylvos » Fri Nov 28, 2003 3:25 pm

Yeah, tell me about it. I even rolled an evil cleric, drow, and started playing. Noticed my physical attribs, and realized that numerically they were a clone of ashemiem, and conceptually it was the same thing.

Cleric xp'ing being what it is, I just didn't have the heart to try starting up a new cleric. And if you ask my guild how often I'm out with them, I'd easily fall under that 'hobby player' classification you guys don't want. And that's on the goodie side :P
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Postby Dalar » Fri Nov 28, 2003 4:01 pm

I find it hilarious that Ragorn quit because of that. I would have been glad if I started a new game and someone told me what class to go.
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Postby Ragorn » Fri Nov 28, 2003 4:39 pm

Really, all you need to do is read the results of the poll. Dartan's response is absolutely priceless, an example I couldn't have written better myself that clearly illustrates the attitude that 48% of respondants are bringing to light in this thread.

If you treat your newbies like resources, they're going to go elsewhere. If you look at who sort 1-10 and see potential ressers and dragonscalers wasting their time playing useless classes, then this poll is about you. If you treat them like people, interested in playing a role and having a good time, then they'll stay. It was obvious to me right away that nobody I talked to cared I was there. In a game that's 99% community and 1% code, you can't afford that attitude.

There are 8 evils online right now, and none under level 31. Keep thinking it's hilarious, Dartan :) (There are twice as many people logged into Duris as Sojourn right now)
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Postby Dalar » Fri Nov 28, 2003 5:53 pm

There's 1000x+ more people logged into Everquest right now than Duris. Who cares about Duris?

If you want to play in a community, you should play what people need. If there's 50 active illusionists and 1 active enchanter, playing an illusionist isn't going to be a good idea. What's better, learning at lvl 11 that you won't get many groups or learning at lvl 50?

You can also think about your situation this way. That's one person saying they don't need necros. You can prove them wrong right?
If you really wanted to play an evilrace necro you would have kept on going. When I left goodies to go evil, I too was told they could use enchanters and illusionists. I wanted to (and succeeded in) get into CC and talked to Turg about it. Eventually, I picked shaman and battlechanter. At the time, Ambar, Oosh, and Togel played enough where a 4th shaman wasn't really necessary. Dartok, who played a TON at the time, and yugpok or somethin, played enough where a 3rd battlechanter wasn't really necessary. I was told to play different classes but I didn't care. I played classes that interested me. How far did I get? Well, I was in the first TTF group and the first 2 Hulburg groups, and I particpated in a BC run (and didn't die. suckers!).

Once again, I think you're just finding more excuses NOT to play.
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Postby Sesexe » Fri Nov 28, 2003 8:27 pm

I remember a necro asking me as my highlevel necro why he never got groups. I also remember suggesting to him that he reroll as an enchanter or a cleric. That player was Dizzin.

Look at him now.

It doesn't matter who you were 2 months ago or 52 months ago. Evils for the most part are notorious for treating any serious cleric or enchanter like gold. Look at Sservis now. He's got mad respect with Evils and he's incredibly new to the game.

Over the past 2 years I've watched clerics and enchanters repeatedly get favored. From guild membership offers to EQ splits. They get the life of luxury. Necromancers live in the lonely Ghetto. I should know. I went thru it. :(

Whoever gave you this advice Ragorn, was actually giving you some GOOD advice. I'm sorry you thought it was otherwise. :(

If I knew back then what I know today when I was rolling up Evil at the start of Soj3, I would have made my first character an enchanter, cleric, or even a shaman most definitely! My whole evil experience proubably would have been 10x's more enjoyable.

I mean like, after playing a Ranger and having it rough all those years you did play here, why would you want to go thru the same deal as a necro?

I don't get it. Someone gave you good advice to prevent this and instead you take it negatively and quit? :(
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Postby Sesexe » Fri Nov 28, 2003 8:28 pm

I remember a necro asking me as my highlevel necro why he never got groups. I also remember suggesting to him that he reroll as an enchanter or a cleric. That player was Dizzin.

Look at him now.

It doesn't matter who you were 2 months ago or 52 months ago. Evils for the most part are notorious for treating any serious cleric or enchanter like gold. Look at Sservis now. He's got mad respect with Evils and he's incredibly new to the game.

Over the past 2 years I've watched clerics and enchanters repeatedly get favored. From guild membership offers to EQ splits. They get the life of luxury. Necromancers live in the lonely Ghetto. I should know. I went thru it. :(

Whoever gave you this advice Ragorn, was actually giving you some GOOD advice. I'm sorry you thought it was otherwise. :(

If I knew back then what I know today when I was rolling up Evil at the start of Soj3, I would have made my first character an enchanter, cleric, or even a shaman most definitely! My whole evil experience proubably would have been 10x's more enjoyable.

I mean like, after playing a Ranger and having it rough all those years you did play here, why would you want to go thru the same deal as a necro?

I don't get it. Someone gave you good advice to prevent this and instead you take it negatively and quit? :(
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Postby Dizzin » Fri Nov 28, 2003 8:47 pm

Sesexe wrote:I remember a necro asking me as my highlevel necro why he never got groups. I also remember suggesting to him that he reroll as an enchanter or a cleric. That player was Dizzin.


Uhh, I didn't roll a necro until about 6 months ago heh. So it wasn't me asking that!

Sorry!
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Postby Dizzin » Fri Nov 28, 2003 8:55 pm

Dalar wrote: and I particpated in a BC run (and didn't die. suckers!).


And killed the bloody quest mob. Still think you did it on purpose to screw us over! Or such!

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