Wither

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Teyaha
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Wither

Postby Teyaha » Thu Dec 04, 2003 9:55 am

wither seems to have anywhere from a 2-8% chance to land on level 46 or higher mobs. any reason for it being so low?

and any reason for it being enchantment, when the two classes that get it are ap and necro? why not make it necromancy - then maybe it will land.

for ever level 50 mob i kill i burn through 7 withers, mem out, then burn through almost all 7 again before one lands. it's rare that a wither lands on the first 7 cast.

please look into this. it's not a game breakin spell just another form of faerie fire. the movement reduction does squat, as i've withered th en had a mob flee 1.5 rounds later.
Pheten
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Postby Pheten » Thu Dec 04, 2003 12:06 pm

Don't change this to spellcast nec, as an anti my enchantment is maxxed and nec is like low, we have like 2 crappy spells we never use that are necromancy for AP. =)
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Postby Sesexe » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:55 pm

Even as a level 50 lich with my skills in specialize necromancy and spell cast necromancy as high as they can go, wither still doesn't land so often.

But Tey, have you tried casting banshee first, that is if you can? Then it lands a lot.

I also found that pets always seem to make this spell land easier then casting it myself, as retarded as that is now seeing as i'm a lich with maxed skills and all. Just a suggestion tho.

I've noticed this with ray too btw.
Teyaha
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Postby Teyaha » Thu Dec 04, 2003 8:52 pm

pheten, my enchantment is also maxed, and using my trigger set to monitor withers casted vs. landed

Withers Casted: 356 Withers Landed: 23
Success Rate: 6 %

wtf!?

i dont ahve banshee wail..but why wait till 46 to make a 3rd circle useful?
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Postby othelil » Thu Dec 04, 2003 9:42 pm

Teyaha wrote:pheten, my enchantment is also maxed, and using my trigger set to monitor withers casted vs. landed

Withers Casted: 356 Withers Landed: 23
Success Rate: 6 %

wtf!?

i dont ahve banshee wail..but why wait till 46 to make a 3rd circle useful?


I think he's got a point. =) 6% is REALLY low.
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Iyachtu
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Postby Iyachtu » Thu Dec 04, 2003 10:19 pm

Well, you're trying to use a 3rd circle spell on 46+ mobs, basically. Keep in mind that Abi's (it's one of the areas, think it's Abi's) has a smaller wither affect that it does on the room, and banshee wail will help any affect like this to land.

Also, it would absolutely stun and amaze me if pets actually have a higher chance to land this spell, from looking at the code. Unless of course you count the fact that 3 pets can be casting it.
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Postby chandigar » Thu Dec 04, 2003 10:42 pm

Iyachtu wrote:Well, you're trying to use a 3rd circle spell on 46+ mobs, basically. Keep in mind that Abi's (it's one of the areas, think it's Abi's) has a smaller wither affect that it does on the room, and banshee wail will help any affect like this to land.

Also, it would absolutely stun and amaze me if pets actually have a higher chance to land this spell, from looking at the code. Unless of course you count the fact that 3 pets can be casting it.


Hrmm, I was always told it was because all mob casters (including pets) were innately spec all?
Iyachtu
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Postby Iyachtu » Thu Dec 04, 2003 10:46 pm

chandigar wrote:
Iyachtu wrote:Well, you're trying to use a 3rd circle spell on 46+ mobs, basically. Keep in mind that Abi's (it's one of the areas, think it's Abi's) has a smaller wither affect that it does on the room, and banshee wail will help any affect like this to land.

Also, it would absolutely stun and amaze me if pets actually have a higher chance to land this spell, from looking at the code. Unless of course you count the fact that 3 pets can be casting it.


Hrmm, I was always told it was because all mob casters (including pets) were innately spec all?


They are not.
othelil
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Postby othelil » Thu Dec 04, 2003 11:33 pm

Iyachtu wrote:Well, you're trying to use a 3rd circle spell on 46+ mobs, basically. Keep in mind that Abi's (it's one of the areas, think it's Abi's) has a smaller wither affect that it does on the room, and banshee wail will help any affect like this to land.

Also, it would absolutely stun and amaze me if pets actually have a higher chance to land this spell, from looking at the code. Unless of course you count the fact that 3 pets can be casting it.


I don't know how the code works, so does the circle of the spell factor into whether or not it's saved against? I'm just thinking certain enchantments like power word blind that are significantly more mob crippling can be cast on mobs well above one's level with a reasonable success rate. Significantly better than 6% anyway. But PWB is a 7'th/8'th circle spell, which is why the original question.
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Teyaha
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Postby Teyaha » Fri Dec 05, 2003 3:28 am

my point is that why is a spell that's just a nother version of faerie fire so hard to land? there is no reason for that.

and when i'm xp'ng i rarely area..and even then the wilt effect is rather rare.

and banshee wail is AREA spell.
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Postby Iyachtu » Fri Dec 05, 2003 5:08 am

Teyaha wrote:my point is that why is a spell that's just a nother version of faerie fire so hard to land? there is no reason for that.

and when i'm xp'ng i rarely area..and even then the wilt effect is rather rare.

and banshee wail is AREA spell.


Just another version, which stacks with faerie fire and other spells. And yes, it's not as good as faerie fire in terms of landing, but it's equivalent to scarlet outline in terms of affect.
Teyaha
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Postby Teyaha » Fri Dec 05, 2003 5:18 am

scarlet outline always lands

rare that i'm with any one that can faerie fire, unless i'm grouped with a drow who uses their once every now and th en innate. and even if it stacked..so what?

only two classes have this spell, and it's hard to land on the class that's a pure caster. that just doesnt seem right for a spell that's used pretty much every fight.

make it not stack with faerie fire and make it easier to land plz.
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Postby Pheten » Fri Dec 05, 2003 10:14 am

Also note that AP's get this spell later than necros. If it wasnt made to be used on high level mobs why give it to us late then. And what other spells in the game are like this, all other spells I can think of that are low level effect spells pretty much land well no matter what the level of the mob.

Normal blind spell lands a ton.. normal curse, FF and scarlet outline = nofail. all low level spells. Seriously might wanna bump the ability for this spell to land, don't make it nofail but don't make it so it takes all 6 slots of a necros memed spells to land one.

-phet
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Postby Mitharx » Fri Dec 05, 2003 2:54 pm

Ya know, I don't have all that much trouble landing this spell. But whatever. Increasing stuff I have is cool.

Don't use it much anymore anyway.
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Postby Sesexe » Fri Dec 05, 2003 4:51 pm

Pheten wrote:Also note that AP's get this spell later than necros. If it wasnt made to be used on high level mobs why give it to us late then. And what other spells in the game are like this, all other spells I can think of that are low level effect spells pretty much land well no matter what the level of the mob.

Normal blind spell lands a ton.. normal curse, FF and scarlet outline = nofail. all low level spells. Seriously might wanna bump the ability for this spell to land, don't make it nofail but don't make it so it takes all 6 slots of a necros memed spells to land one.

-phet


Like what he said n stuff :)
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Postby mynazzaraxxsyn » Fri Dec 05, 2003 5:26 pm

If circle effects a mobs save vs spell then how come blind lands pretty well? That is only a 5th circle spell.
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Iyachtu
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Postby Iyachtu » Fri Dec 05, 2003 8:21 pm

The raw circle number doesn't directly affect a spell's chance of landing. Some spells (a fairly small list) do have a modification for the mob's save chance. Some of the higher circle spells, basically.

There are also a few spells that will affect the mob's spell save chance, such as Hex, Curse, and Banshee Wail.

My personal experience as a necromancer is that if I want to wither something, I can do it (and I don't have banshee wail), if I either:

A) Have multiple pets cast it. or
B) Don't need it to land right at the beginning of the fight.

I tend to use a mix of ghasts and shadows, specifically because I like to land spells like this, and it greatly increases my effectiveness at this. Instead of using 3 ghasts and a shadow, I use 2 ghasts and 3 shadows.

Keep in mind also that different 46+ mobs may have very different save_spell, based on race or class.
Mitharx
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Postby Mitharx » Fri Dec 05, 2003 8:23 pm

I will say that pets moving and stop casting when you move hurt the method I used to land wither. But once again, whatever.

Wither was best to hit when I got bashee wail. By then pets didn't need help hitting. Spells seems kinda useless:P
Iyachtu
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Postby Iyachtu » Fri Dec 05, 2003 9:17 pm

Mitharx wrote:I will say that pets moving and stop casting when you move hurt the method I used to land wither. But once again, whatever.

Wither was best to hit when I got bashee wail. By then pets didn't need help hitting. Spells seems kinda useless:P


Wither is fantastic when you're level 26, fighting level 30-35 mobs. It's not great when you're much higher level, but it's also replaced by the wither affect from Abi's. *shrug*
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Postby Yayaril » Fri Dec 05, 2003 10:41 pm

8)

Wither would be a lot more useful if instead of causing the mob's movements to be cut in half, it instead drained an amount of moves and was stackable (not for the purposes of ac reduction). That way you could wither away a mob's movements.
Teyaha
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Postby Teyaha » Sat Dec 06, 2003 2:55 am

i land ray more often than i do wither.

if it's just an armor increase, and a slight movement loss, just make it !fail like faerie fire. why would that be imbalacing? only two classes get the spell..vs. how many get faerie fire?

or is how crappy it is to land for me because of some racial modifier, further making snakes a crap choice to play? i dont remember having this problem with my human necro on toril and soj2
Iyachtu
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Postby Iyachtu » Sat Dec 06, 2003 3:06 am

Teyaha wrote:i land ray more often than i do wither.

if it's just an armor increase, and a slight movement loss, just make it !fail like faerie fire. why would that be imbalacing? only two classes get the spell..vs. how many get faerie fire?

or is how crappy it is to land for me because of some racial modifier, further making snakes a crap choice to play? i dont remember having this problem with my human necro on toril and soj2


The odds of landing these spells are identical, as are the casting times. The code for landing wither has not changed in the last 3 years, at the least.

The race of the caster has zero effect on the landing of the spell.

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