Pbase drop in general / Evil vs Good balance problems

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Ruagh
Sojourner
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Moscow, Russia
Contact:

Pbase drop in general / Evil vs Good balance problems

Postby Ruagh » Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:07 am

Okay, I dont remember all the ideas which have been wiped from BBS by Cyric, but here are some general points to discuss off my head:

[PROBLEMS]

1. Very low evilrace pbase, people are unable to zone because evils are pretty much unable to form a zone group due to critical lack of key classes.

2. Avalanche effect, which is forcing newbies to roll a goodie because there is alot of goodies out there to play with, and evils rolling goodrace alts just to be able to have fun/interact with other players/zone

3. Shifting of focus towards peak hour-playing USA players. See: the newly introduced zones are hard and long, requiring full groups to do. This is contributing to the n.2 as well. While earlier (taking as example the Dark Side, because I dont know how it looks like from the goodie point of view) evils were able to form a small core group (usually 5-7 men) and to get/distribute several items which were vital for their survivability (as an example, Id take the completely !doable now tiny spider ring, and the downgraded polka/psilk eyepatch). Resume: while earlier you were ABLE to form a group and do a couple of decent items with small forces, now you are getting high-end gear only in "huge economy packs" from bigtime zones, requiring full zoning groups, and that gear is pretty much INACESSIBLE by the evils.

4. EQ changes screwing low to mid-levels real hard. All of the high-levellers were able to survive the changes (losing couple hit/dam or hps wont hurt much), while the lowbies were hurt bad because they cant do crap after losing (relatively) alot of hit/dam/ac/hps.

5. Global quest system - although it is probably necessary to prevent farming, it is tightly connected to n.3 because global quests tend to use alot of high-end gear nowadays, effectively cutting most of the evils from the epic global quests.

[SOLUTIONS/IDEAS]

1. Consider the idea of adding more soloing skills/spells to mid-level clerics to help plevel more of them on the evil side, making zoning possible.

2. I dont know what could be done with the rest, honestly. Especially with the focusing the MUD on the peak-time USA players, which is a part of the present MUD politics under the present administration (I guess avalanche effect could be resolved if the problems 3 and 4 will be addressed in some way). I tend to beleive that focus and the recent eq changes following the focus shift are responsible for the pbase drop.

And please, dont post mullet jokes and non-constructive responces, dont litter this thread. If you have nothing constructive to add, let this thread void into the oblivion, with the whole evil pbase. And also, dont bring the "evil attitude" topic once again - it may be PARTIALLY linked with those problems, but only partially, and it isnt the general reason. Enough has been said already, and the evil pbase has changed since then as well.

--
Lil Ru the Prophet of Doom whines once again here. Dont worry, it is one of the last whines posted by me here. I dont care anymore.
Va'esse deireadh aep eigean... Something is ending...
Ruagh
Sojourner
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Moscow, Russia
Contact:

Postby Ruagh » Mon Dec 15, 2003 12:43 pm

After talking with people, 2 more ideas have been introduced.

1. Immortals offering 1-time race change for the present chars (although personally I dont think it will help much since I think that Sojourn cannot support different independant good/evil sides anymore, when it comes to the Dark side survival)

2. Removal of artifical grouping restrictions (*cough-cough* OtherMud-style), thus potentially allowing any player to group with any player if they want to, leaving the only "restriction" to their own RP. Maybe that would breathe more life into Toril.
Va'esse deireadh aep eigean... Something is ending...
Yayaril
Sojourner
Posts: 2551
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Green Bay, WI

Postby Yayaril » Mon Dec 15, 2003 12:44 pm

8)

Why don't you go start a cleric and/or help other clerics level?
Shuanerst
Sojourner
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2003 2:09 pm

Postby Shuanerst » Mon Dec 15, 2003 12:55 pm

I'm sorry, but cleric is the _easiest_ class to level bar none (even troll warriors).

I solo'ed in hyssk (with newbie gear to 7 in 2-3 hrs), got a taxi in DK most of the way to 20, was doing ship at 21, 2man ds at 26 and 2man smoke at lvl 34. Overall, I estimate that a motivated cleric can make 50 in around 3 days of ptime. That doesn't sound that hard to level.

If you want to make a class easier to level, try enchanter (or psi).

While there are balance issues with good vs evil (almost 100% due to pbase size differences), I don't see changing the way the evil races (or classes) work as a good fix.

-Sservis
Todrael group-says 'i keep it in a jar, not much gura could do with it'
Todrael group-says 'i do have plenty of holes though'
Gura group-says 'afk gettin bateries'
Ruagh
Sojourner
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Moscow, Russia
Contact:

Postby Ruagh » Mon Dec 15, 2003 12:59 pm

2Yayaril:
(although I dont want to convert this thread into a personal discussion)

Because I cannot have an alt of every damn class which is required for zones, and the cleric class is pretty much the only class which I havent played yet. And even if I had a fhealer, whats the point? Because we will be missing other key classes, including warriors. The problem is in numbers, and unless something drastical will suddenly happen(like the grouping restrictions removal), the evil pbase is already pretty much dead now. And I have plevelled some clerics, as well as alot of the other evils did. I just dont wanna spend much time exping here myself or exping others, because Im a bit burned out, a bit offended by the changes, and whats the point - I will be unable to zone even if my 40 enchanter would ever hit 50 (I cant get the damn Iceberry myself - see?)
Va'esse deireadh aep eigean... Something is ending...
gogk
Sojourner
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Amityville NY 11701

sservis

Postby gogk » Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:27 pm

Your statement about leveling a cleric is not what the main issue. you are talkin about yourself as if you rolled that cleric not knowing anyone here who helped you plelvel a cleric to 50. there are gonna be new players that come into this game and don't know the people you know. or have the ability to plevel a character the way it was handed to you. so do yourself a favor if you are going to try and be critical of something stick to the facts and understand what is trying to be resolved is a way to build up that player base in which you are mostly an AFK level pleveled cleric.

Gogk/Gimkas/Argl/Jarikon/Your Mom.
Cordan
Sojourner
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 3:36 pm

Postby Cordan » Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:25 pm

I'm going to have to agree with Gogk there. Speed of leveling takes into account what you know AND who you know. Experience and connections. But that's not really the point here, IMHO. Intrigued by all the talk, and finally growing up and out of my earlier inhibitions, I decided to roll up an ogre warrior (that thread intrigued me plenty).

First I must say, at level 16, he's pretty damn powerful. Of course I moved some eq to him, wasn't going to at first, but it's to tempting, but even before that, I was landing crits, killing things much larger than myself. Granted, the healing sucks, but it's not a big deal. Patience I think Ambar said. And she's right.

Anyways, I've been having a great time. Faang is actually a fun town, stayed there for a few levels, actually liked it. Plenty of bats to lure guards almost anywhere you want. As long as your careful.

The only reason I left Faang when I did, is I was getting tells to group. I've been able to group with someone every time I log on. Maybe it's the hours I play, prime US hours, but it's been nice.

Point is, use the ideas above to increase the database, not make clerics easier, and there will naturally be people who will play the necessary classes.
Dark Slayer
Sojourner
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2003 1:14 pm

Postby Dark Slayer » Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:36 pm

My ideas is......
1) Add more classes for evil because goodie got extra classes like druid, paladin, anti-paladin. Add more melee and spell skills to evil to be more balance with extra classes that goodie have. that's what i got in my mind now..
c'ya later. Adios!!!!!!
mynazzaraxxsyn
Sojourner
Posts: 479
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:00 pm
Location: Ixarkon
Contact:

Postby mynazzaraxxsyn » Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:56 pm

Dark Slayer wrote:My ideas is......
1) Add more classes for evil because goodie got extra classes like druid, paladin, anti-paladin.


Psi is the evil version of a druid. I mentioned the evil paladin/anti bit a while back and was shot down. Dires are a ranger/anti combo.
Lilithelle stops using a softly throbbing piece of flesh.
Gura group-says 'ill go solo the biznatch, just don't tell Stamm'
Kossuth responds to your petition with 'is it bad that the two words i think of when i see yer title are hottub and cthulhu? :('
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Postby kiryan » Mon Dec 15, 2003 4:27 pm

if you want to make evils like goodies why not just go play goodies.

I think 3 days to 50 would be a very agressive timeline without some great friends to support you.

I'd give you 3 days to 47
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
Corth
Sojourner
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: NY, USA

Postby Corth » Mon Dec 15, 2003 5:43 pm

Heh.. if you think the pbase is bad now then imagine what it would be like if some of us didn't object hard enough to the mud being split into two...

Unfortunately, I don't think there is much that can be done to bring the evil side of the mud back up to par. Perhaps loading some good usable ub3r items in the underdark might provide a bit of a spark... get people to at least brush off their evil alts...

But really, the underlying problem (a pbase too small to support two separate societies on the mud), cannot be fixed. Muds are dying out... even the ones that 'advertise'. A barren Gloomhaven is just a reflection of larger trends that are impacting muds in general...

Please lock the thread.. as it has now been handled. :)

Corth
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

Goddamned slippery mage.
Sesexe
Sojourner
Posts: 879
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 5:13 am

Postby Sesexe » Mon Dec 15, 2003 7:12 pm

...
Last edited by Sesexe on Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mynazzaraxxsyn
Sojourner
Posts: 479
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:00 pm
Location: Ixarkon
Contact:

Postby mynazzaraxxsyn » Mon Dec 15, 2003 8:53 pm

I tried to level up a duergar cleric and was met with resistance at every turn. I couldn't get a group for crap, couldn't form a group for crap. I ran around with my LFG on all the time while attempting to solo and no one was ever up for it.

I've since then moved onto playing a warrior and elementalist.
Lilithelle stops using a softly throbbing piece of flesh.
Gura group-says 'ill go solo the biznatch, just don't tell Stamm'
Kossuth responds to your petition with 'is it bad that the two words i think of when i see yer title are hottub and cthulhu? :('
Gromikazer
Sojourner
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2002 5:01 am

Postby Gromikazer » Mon Dec 15, 2003 8:53 pm

Evil Ezine... huh?


The easy solution is to allow goodies and evils to group, with several forewarnings.

At a time where it has been determined by the forgers, that the time has come, the grouping restrictions will be reinforced. Wether it be because of any reason, it dosen't matter. It would make the game alot more fun for evils, instead of them constantly quitting.
Gromikazer Terrorforge - 50th Duergar Warrior
Gamorakul - 49th Duergar Elementalist
Direb - 41st Orc Dire Raider
Gokal - 46th Orc Shaman
Lipopple - 40th Gnome Illusionist
Talkryn - 41st Human Anti-Paladin

Games dont make people violent, lag does.
Osil
Sojourner
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2003 6:01 am
Location: Honolulu, HI 96813

Postby Osil » Mon Dec 15, 2003 9:06 pm

I think the only real way to get you folks zoning more is to bust out the alts. More then once I have been in a zoning group on the good side when we need an illusionist or something. We usually didn't wait for one to log on but someone just busted out their alt.

I think the evils need to put in the time to start leveling their own clerics/enchanter alts. You can't afford to rely on getting newbies in there playing those classes. Some of the evils seem to be working on cleric alts but a few people just won't cut it IMO.

If it is true you can plevel a cleric to 50 in 3 days then the vast majority of evils need to do nothing else for a while but work on their cleric alts. Forget zoning, chatting, AFKing, or whatever for a while. Then you need a ress parade where you work on getting every one of those alts ress over a period of a few weeks.

Actually, a really drastic measure would be to have every hard core evil player have an alt of every needed class. That may be *lots* of tedious pleveling but this is your future you are talking about here.
Gura
Sojourner
Posts: 672
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Yer girlfriend's bed

Postby Gura » Mon Dec 15, 2003 9:09 pm

50th warr
41 illus
43 dire
47 battlechanter w/ recovery
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'

Nokie wiggles his bottom.
Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'
Bobidibble GCC: 'yeah i admit gura is a better warrior then i am, no shame in it... perhaps someday i shall be as pimp'
Gromikazer
Sojourner
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2002 5:01 am

Postby Gromikazer » Mon Dec 15, 2003 9:11 pm

99% of evils have 3-6 alts with various classes. We are missing manpower, not specific classes really. It's not even about specific classes at this point, its just missing manpower to be able to finish a zone successfully.
Gromikazer Terrorforge - 50th Duergar Warrior

Gamorakul - 49th Duergar Elementalist

Direb - 41st Orc Dire Raider

Gokal - 46th Orc Shaman

Lipopple - 40th Gnome Illusionist

Talkryn - 41st Human Anti-Paladin



Games dont make people violent, lag does.
Gura
Sojourner
Posts: 672
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Yer girlfriend's bed

Postby Gura » Mon Dec 15, 2003 9:45 pm

hit the nail on the head with that one gromi.
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'



Nokie wiggles his bottom.

Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'

Bobidibble GCC: 'yeah i admit gura is a better warrior then i am, no shame in it... perhaps someday i shall be as pimp'
bimble
Sojourner
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2003 6:01 am

Postby bimble » Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:01 pm

Well I for one would welcome the afore mentioned chance to convert a goodie character to a evil race. A matter of fact I would sac all my goodies to get one good evil.

I'm one of those folks that started as a evil with Kalty, Trio and DJ in Gloomhaven long ago and would like to return. Then embraced Bimble as those guys left the scene. But I'm also 40, have a full time job and mud evenings and weekends. I loved the small evil pops of long ago and would love it again. But I dont want to xp anymore. Toril xp is boring and repetetive even with todays easy xp.

Let us trade pdays or total experience on goodie chars for a short time to form pleveled evils. Hell Iihave a 49th goodie enchanter to bring over - but would rather play a cleric at this point. Do it with level 40 or over characters, total the xp, or pdays - delete them and apply some ratio to the tranfer. 2 for 1 or something. Will give ppl a reason to play evil if they leave thier goodies behind.

I know this will never happen. But hell there are 10 million alts in the game now. Better than 1/3 or half the pfiles I bet are alts. Why not clean them up a little and sac then to balance out the good/evil pops?

bleh - the mud is dying like corth said. lets make the best of it.

Bimble
Dalar
Sojourner
Posts: 4905
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Dalar » Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:10 pm

I say just remove the restrictions. Both sides are easy to play anyways and we need to keep the current pbase. I had a blast doing this on Homelands.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Sesexe
Sojourner
Posts: 879
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 5:13 am

Postby Sesexe » Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:36 pm

...
Last edited by Sesexe on Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Skurg
Sojourner
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:54 am

Postby Skurg » Tue Dec 16, 2003 12:17 am

Remove the racewars and what happens to all the dwarves and barb warriors with the influx of trolls? Or Druids and squids?

Asking cause I dont know. Heh, just started a evil as my first character.
Stamm
Sojourner
Posts: 446
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Stamm » Tue Dec 16, 2003 1:18 am

If you don't enjoy playing an evil, play a goodie or quit.

Eventually people will want to try an evil out, and maybe eventually enough will be doing so that people will want to play evil all the time.

But can you stop proposing balance changes which will affect goodies, and whining non-stop in general?
Gura
Sojourner
Posts: 672
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Yer girlfriend's bed

Postby Gura » Tue Dec 16, 2003 1:28 am

stamm, removal of the group restriction wouldnt hurt u in anyway. would just allow for more groups. i say bring the old outcast system back.
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'



Nokie wiggles his bottom.

Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'

Bobidibble GCC: 'yeah i admit gura is a better warrior then i am, no shame in it... perhaps someday i shall be as pimp'
Stamm
Sojourner
Posts: 446
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Stamm » Tue Dec 16, 2003 1:35 am

Gura wrote:stamm, removal of the group restriction wouldnt hurt u in anyway. would just allow for more groups. i say bring the old outcast system back.


I dunno Gura.

I think I'd be rolling a troll tank up in order to still be grouped.

I know there's a hell of a lot of evil characters around (even if they aren't being played) and I know that for a lot of things evils are superior.

Trolls are plain sick.

Near elven agi.
Better than dwarf str
Better than dwarf con

We'd soon have everybody dropping their alignments in order to group with evils, etc etc

It would change the way things work on the mud. And I do have a bit of sympathy for evils, but why change the way the goodie side works because evils are failures?
Dalar
Sojourner
Posts: 4905
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Dalar » Tue Dec 16, 2003 1:36 am

Sesexe wrote:
Dalar wrote:I say just remove the restrictions. Both sides are easy to play anyways and we need to keep the current pbase. I had a blast doing this on Homelands.


Dalar, did this seem to promote RP in anyway that you noticed? Just curious. :)

who cares about RP? if you want to maintain this mud as RP you're going to need the players
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Gromikazer
Sojourner
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2002 5:01 am

Postby Gromikazer » Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:13 am

Trolls suck.


Sure they can level fast up to 50, but in general trolls just aren't that good since almost every mobs AI is to cloud.


If evils could group with goodies.. Whenever I would lead a zone, For sure, I would have more then a couple goodie tanks.
Gromikazer Terrorforge - 50th Duergar Warrior

Gamorakul - 49th Duergar Elementalist

Direb - 41st Orc Dire Raider

Gokal - 46th Orc Shaman

Lipopple - 40th Gnome Illusionist

Talkryn - 41st Human Anti-Paladin



Games dont make people violent, lag does.
thanuk
Sojourner
Posts: 1902
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 5:01 am
Contact:

Postby thanuk » Tue Dec 16, 2003 3:09 am

Outcast system is an interesting idea, kinda leaves rangers and paladins up the creek though...would definately be a blast to group with some evils after competing with them for so long though:)
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'
You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'
Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'
You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'
Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
Gura
Sojourner
Posts: 672
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Yer girlfriend's bed

Postby Gura » Tue Dec 16, 2003 3:15 am

dwarves have better str than trolls.
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'



Nokie wiggles his bottom.

Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'

Bobidibble GCC: 'yeah i admit gura is a better warrior then i am, no shame in it... perhaps someday i shall be as pimp'
mynazzaraxxsyn
Sojourner
Posts: 479
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:00 pm
Location: Ixarkon
Contact:

Postby mynazzaraxxsyn » Tue Dec 16, 2003 1:51 pm

OUTCAST! Bring it back.
Lilithelle stops using a softly throbbing piece of flesh.
Gura group-says 'ill go solo the biznatch, just don't tell Stamm'
Kossuth responds to your petition with 'is it bad that the two words i think of when i see yer title are hottub and cthulhu? :('
Teyaha
Sojourner
Posts: 1085
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Teyaha » Tue Dec 16, 2003 3:58 pm

i wont play my chanter anymore. actually i dont need to.


when i'm on there is always two other chanters on of close to the same level...someone's uber leet alt more than likely. why wait around seeing if that person is going to be on wheni can be playing my necro and be able to actually do something?

so dont preach 'go play your chanter' or 'we need more chanters/clerics'. there are always two on when i long on around 7pm pst. however a warrior/cleric/chanter/voker cant do jot without support. the who list gets smaller every week, and the who list on the goodie side gets bigger. targsk plays goodie now. so manyevils only play goodies now (yet continue to post their opinions on how to fix evils.....weird). i know for a fact that my necro wont be able to lich or even get vamp curse because there is just no pool of players to recruit for help anymore.

i could have gone back tons of times....espcially early on. but i'm still here. what's your excuse?
Sesexe
Sojourner
Posts: 879
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 5:13 am

Postby Sesexe » Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:59 pm

...
Last edited by Sesexe on Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sesexe
Sojourner
Posts: 879
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 5:13 am

Postby Sesexe » Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:07 pm

...
Last edited by Sesexe on Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yayaril
Sojourner
Posts: 2551
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Green Bay, WI

Postby Yayaril » Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:12 pm

8)

Must have been really tough soloing crypts and TF, there, Sesexe.
Nilan
Sojourner
Posts: 688
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Nilan » Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:32 pm

Evils will come back, we are zoning abit more now as people start hitting the zoning levels. There have been alot of newbie evils playing and i know we at least i can speak for OD guild have been attempting to help aid them and adventure.

Once they learn their classes I think evils will be zoning regularly again. I know we have been trying. I dont see any need to have goodies and evils group. This will not solve the problem. Honestly what goodie leader is gonna not take their own folks and instead sa hey lets take a few evils instead. Sorry you regulars but ya cant join this run. I cant see that happening.

People need to be patient, aid the younger folks and teach the newer players evils have. We do have alot and people are playing and having fun. I can speak for OD and Evil Ezine that we are trying to establish zoning and adventure groups for evils. And we will accomplish this.

Fun for all.

Nilan
aka
Stabby
Sesexe
Sojourner
Posts: 879
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 5:13 am

Postby Sesexe » Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:54 pm

...
Last edited by Sesexe on Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yasden
Sojourner
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Lake Stevens, WA, USA

Postby Yasden » Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:31 pm

Blah. I don't know how many times I have TRIED getting something going but people are too wrapped up in their self-serving needs anymore. I've had groups of 8-9 people ready to zone and there's other people who would rather exp their alts or do some other 3 man stuff just to prove how leet they are. While that's all fine and dandy, in the long run it's the rest of us who are suffering, while the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

I have been supporting the evils as much as I possibly can, and I started playing my anti more because I wanted to start learning new things so I could lead them. I didn't *quit*. I by myself CANNOT fix the evil playerbase, and I even did my part and got a shaman to 46 with gheal and AS. And frankly, I don't feel like wasting MY personal time sitting at the fountain in DK for 8 hours hoping people log on to do stuff. Soloing crap gets boring after a while, and there's only so much you can do that way.

The BIGGEST problem we have as evils is that EVERYONE wants to friggin roll up a rogue or an invoker or a necro lately. Not to say that we don't need them for groups, but when we have no enchanters or clerics to ever zone, what's the point? We're only slitting our own damned throats when we keep expecting EVERYONE ELSE to do the work. I applaud those of you who have taken it upon yourselves to actually roll up a cleric or an enchanter recently. Keep at it.

To the rest of you who *do* have clerics/enchanters and who *do* play all your other alts, try to help out us out as a whole once in a while. Those of you who quit evils, try coming back over and having a bit of patience while we try to get at least enough folks to do a zone every night. I know we're not ever going to have the same size of a playerbase as the goodies, but if we can keep our numbers respectable, and if people would stop forming factions (they're not even associations anymore because there's too many of them - 5 on the evils side is retarded), because they hate so and so, we could actually get along and do something constructive.

I've said my piece. Spit on me as you will. I'm used to it.

Deathmagnet
mynazzaraxxsyn
Sojourner
Posts: 479
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:00 pm
Location: Ixarkon
Contact:

Postby mynazzaraxxsyn » Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:35 pm

Yasden wrote:Spit on me as you will. I'm used to it.

Deathmagnet


*spit*

Targsk does do a lot for evils. I don't care what anyone says about him he will ALWAYS be an evil. He is constantly handing out items to new evils and helping them with exp and such. He is more then willing 95% of the time to help with a quest, a kill, helping you get a piece of eq, CR.

I for one appreciate you Ryan. Keep up the good work.
Lilithelle stops using a softly throbbing piece of flesh.
Gura group-says 'ill go solo the biznatch, just don't tell Stamm'
Kossuth responds to your petition with 'is it bad that the two words i think of when i see yer title are hottub and cthulhu? :('
bimble
Sojourner
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2003 6:01 am

Postby bimble » Wed Dec 17, 2003 2:01 am

I'm one of those ppl that quit the mud, gave my eq to
close friends and vowed not to return. Recently I showed
my niece ( a hard core FFx1 player) how the "old skool"
mudders did it. She met Daksnar, Ruxur and a few others
on the evil side and now is hooked. She comes to my house
to play, and just gushes about how ppl on the text mud
seem "real" and its like a living "book". She has tried
both sides of the racewar, has drained my brain on all
things Toril. And calls herself a evil around the house,
which scared the hell out of my brother who has never
mudded. She reads every goddamn mud room description so
carefully it drives me crazy. So Nilan is right, the evils are
doing some things right, and they snagged a 15yr old girl.

Also..

I've returned to the mud and joined the evil side. Hating
the fact that I have to level another character - bleh.
But I have been finding lots of help. Decent spirits in ppl
and cant wait to raise a little hell when I hit a zone lvl.
Just hoping I can sustain the effort of leveling - damn it
sucks! bleh.

Bimble is now Bamazabob the cleric, and dont get all
nasty around my niece!
Teyaha
Sojourner
Posts: 1085
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Teyaha » Wed Dec 17, 2003 3:44 am

Sesexe wrote:
Teyaha wrote:so dont preach 'go play your chanter' or 'we need more chanters/clerics'. there are always two on when i long on around 7pm pst. however a warrior/cleric/chanter/voker cant do jot without support. the who list gets smaller every week, and the who list on the goodie side gets bigger. targsk plays goodie now. so manyevils only play goodies now (yet continue to post their opinions on how to fix evils.....weird).


Tey, noone's talking to you. You weren't one of the evils 'whining'. Like hello. What's compelling you to suddenly be defensive? We know who you are as your necro, if we wanted you to play your chanter we'd be pegging you with tells everytime we saw you. Wtf?

Teyaha wrote: i know for a fact that my necro wont be able to lich or even get vamp curse because there is just no pool of players to recruit for help anymore.


You can do lich quest without a group.
You can do lich quest without being a member of a guild or having a guild hand it to you.
You can do lich quest all by yourself.

I did.

Teyaha wrote:What's your excuse?


you must be unique then, because tod sez the quest is a bitch.
Teyaha
Sojourner
Posts: 1085
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Teyaha » Wed Dec 17, 2003 3:47 am

Yasden wrote:Blah. I don't know how many times I have TRIED getting something going but people are too wrapped up in their self-serving needs anymore. I've had groups of 8-9 people ready to zone and there's other people who would rather exp their alts or do some other 3 man stuff just to prove how leet they are. While that's all fine and dandy, in the long run it's the rest of us who are suffering, while the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

I have been supporting the evils as much as I possibly can, and I started playing my anti more because I wanted to start learning new things so I could lead them. I didn't *quit*. I by myself CANNOT fix the evil playerbase, and I even did my part and got a shaman to 46 with gheal and AS. And frankly, I don't feel like wasting MY personal time sitting at the fountain in DK for 8 hours hoping people log on to do stuff. Soloing crap gets boring after a while, and there's only so much you can do that way.

The BIGGEST problem we have as evils is that EVERYONE wants to friggin roll up a rogue or an invoker or a necro lately. Not to say that we don't need them for groups, but when we have no enchanters or clerics to ever zone, what's the point? We're only slitting our own damned throats when we keep expecting EVERYONE ELSE to do the work. I applaud those of you who have taken it upon yourselves to actually roll up a cleric or an enchanter recently. Keep at it.

To the rest of you who *do* have clerics/enchanters and who *do* play all your other alts, try to help out us out as a whole once in a while. Those of you who quit evils, try coming back over and having a bit of patience while we try to get at least enough folks to do a zone every night. I know we're not ever going to have the same size of a playerbase as the goodies, but if we can keep our numbers respectable, and if people would stop forming factions (they're not even associations anymore because there's too many of them - 5 on the evils side is retarded), because they hate so and so, we could actually get along and do something constructive.

I've said my piece. Spit on me as you will. I'm used to it.

Deathmagnet


you guys never ask me. actually sok did once....but it was 2am and i had to work

but i wont log in my chanter and hang out wondering if you are forming a group. you know the necro.
Sarell
Sojourner
Posts: 1681
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:01 am
Location: brisbane, australia

Postby Sarell » Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:53 am

i agree with who said in other thread sonme evils should stop posting on bbs, scares newbs :P

EDIT

I totally disagree that the mud caters to only larger groups now. There are lots of zones that cater to these larger groups, and kiahated us ninjaing things, but there are WAY more zones and class combinations that can ninja things now. Also I don't think this percieved problem really hurts international players. It is really only the pbase. Lots of Australians on now cos we all told our friends :) I think the advertising is helping aswell, a few months ago you couldnt find a single newb, there are la few now.

I liked the outcasting system. How bout can group with evils, you get flagged OC, and elves / paladins / rangers / dorfs can't group with them or something? A compromise....
Ssryth
Sojourner
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Postby Ssryth » Wed Dec 17, 2003 12:15 pm

Teyaha wrote:
Sesexe wrote:
Teyaha wrote:so dont preach 'go play your chanter' or 'we need more chanters/clerics'. there are always two on when i long on around 7pm pst. however a warrior/cleric/chanter/voker cant do jot without support. the who list gets smaller every week, and the who list on the goodie side gets bigger. targsk plays goodie now. so manyevils only play goodies now (yet continue to post their opinions on how to fix evils.....weird).


Tey, noone's talking to you. You weren't one of the evils 'whining'. Like hello. What's compelling you to suddenly be defensive? We know who you are as your necro, if we wanted you to play your chanter we'd be pegging you with tells everytime we saw you. Wtf?

Teyaha wrote: i know for a fact that my necro wont be able to lich or even get vamp curse because there is just no pool of players to recruit for help anymore.



You can do lich quest without a group.
You can do lich quest without being a member of a guild or having a guild hand it to you.
You can do lich quest all by yourself.

I did.

Teyaha wrote:What's your excuse?


you must be unique then, because tod sez the quest is a bitch.


It was a bitch when we did it back then.. (items and quest knowledge) .. these days the items needed to do the quest aren't that hard to obtain.. and the quest seems to be common knowledge...

back to the topic at hand.. there is just too much overlap in classes and abilities to allow evil/goodie grouping without restrictions... wherever overlaps occur, the weaker class/race will fade away. Allowing restricted grouping b/w goods and evils will be beneficial but it has to be restricted.. perhaps a modified outcast system of old...

Ssryth.
Ssryth
Sojourner
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Postby Ssryth » Wed Dec 17, 2003 12:23 pm

Sarell wrote:i agree with who said in other thread sonme evils should stop posting on bbs, scares newbs :P

EDIT

I totally disagree that the mud caters to only larger groups now. There are lots of zones that cater to these larger groups, and kiahated us ninjaing things, but there are WAY more zones and class combinations that can ninja things now. Also I don't think this percieved problem really hurts international players. It is really only the pbase. Lots of Australians on now cos we all told our friends :) I think the advertising is helping aswell, a few months ago you couldnt find a single newb, there are la few now.

I liked the outcasting system. How bout can group with evils, you get flagged OC, and elves / paladins / rangers / dorfs can't group with them or something? A compromise....


ummm yeah Aussie Aussie Aussie!

Ssryth.
Yayaril
Sojourner
Posts: 2551
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Green Bay, WI

Postby Yayaril » Wed Dec 17, 2003 12:36 pm

Sesexe wrote:Trade. All major items can be legally traded for. The minor leg running items of the quest are solo-able. Even the final item is solo-able. Baddabing.


I guess that most quests are 'soloable' under those definitions, then.
Yarash
Sojourner
Posts: 432
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Monterey, CA

Postby Yarash » Wed Dec 17, 2003 2:08 pm

I have an evilrace invoker alt who is fully equipped and zonable if people know to ask me.

- Mike

Return to “T2 Gameplay Discussion Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests