Any Reason to be A paladin any more?? No didn't think so.

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Any Reason to be A paladin any more?? No didn't think so.

Postby Karae » Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:36 am

OMG...
Ok lets see, any reasons not to be a pallie plenty.

1) Any warrior can tank just as good, or probbaly even better.
2) Any other race of warrior has better hit points, cept for those short creatins, like halfsters, and what not.
3) Warriors can get into almost any zone group, just because they are a warrior.
4) Anti-Paladins, our evil counterparts, can now group with anyone else in the whole freakin mud.
5) Why one of the coolest swords in the game, the thing that makes the paladin was the HOLY F**KIN AVENGER, now we got just the oh yeah, its the holy avenger. The changes of it tottaly screw us over.


I know why this happened, becuase of bunch of pleveled AP(no offense the ones who are prime, and actually worked your way to where you are) Alts becuase their uber sword got DG, so they wanted someone else to take the fall too. So I figure why not bitch just about my sword, but all the other classes prime abilities and tools.

so lets see
Clerics get rid of ress
Enchanters get rid of dscales
Invokers Inferno
Druids Well
Warriors loose bash, or how about 1 handed slashing that seems important to the class.

Why are we doing this to the mud we love so much, sure things got dg, that doesn't mean we have to bitch and moan about things that didn't. So why did the Holy Avenger get downed?
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Postby Karae » Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:43 am

Okay if its the simpliness of the quest:
I don't care make it harder, and make us do a special quest to upgrade what he have now.

All the paladins i've talked about this hate the change.
and we would all most likely agree that we would go for even if it was still something more difficult.
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Plenty

Postby Aedaris » Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:52 am

1) You can still solo a bunch of crap.
2) You can afk and nobody would ask you to group.
3) The holy avenger is still pretty bad ass.
4) They are badass in the arena.
5) You can heal yourself.

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Postby Karae » Fri Dec 19, 2003 4:02 am

1) You can still solo a bunch of crap.
2) You can afk and nobody would ask you to group.
3) The holy avenger is still pretty bad ass.
4) They are badass in the arena.
5) You can heal yourself.


yeah i agree with those.
but
1) Soloing for me takes now three or four times along. So now instead of taking 3 minutes to kill a mob it takes me about nine
2) AFKness has nothing to do with the ability to play a paladin
3) Badass anymore? I don't think so, yeah its cool with the new procs, but it used to be awhole lot better.
4) Arena doesn't matter to much for zoning, or xping
5) A cleric, shaman, druid, elementalist can all heal themselves in some way. And you can get more hitpoints, better memtimes, and be more useful in groups than a paladin, and they even seem to tank better sometimes!
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Postby Ihazim » Fri Dec 19, 2003 4:03 am

i still take paladins to zone
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Postby Karae » Fri Dec 19, 2003 4:10 am

Well good Ihazim, but why take a class that can't offer much to a zone, when you can take some class thats better?

Yes there a few times a paladin is better, but not that much.
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Keep avenger LIke it was

Postby Aedaris » Fri Dec 19, 2003 4:13 am

With the higher heal rate.

Make a new quest for the avenger that is a lot tougher. And all the peeps with old avenger will be happy that they didnt have to do the new tougher quest. YOu know like khanjari. I see no reason why the avenger cannot get this kind of LOVE.
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Postby Karae » Fri Dec 19, 2003 4:19 am

Yeah I wouldn't mind. Have to sets of holy avengers, one, that the lower levle paladins can get to help them out, and once they get bigger have it to where they can quest an upgrade like those khanjari's.
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Postby Ihazim » Fri Dec 19, 2003 4:27 am

Classes are supposed to be different. And while one class may not be as powerful as another class, it is still useful. At the same time you also conveniently forget other factors that are considered for grouping like skill and personality. The bottom line is that no matter what combination, a group should be able to get a job done and while yes, class/race is a factor, it shouldn't impede the final result.

that's just my opinion though.
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Postby Karae » Fri Dec 19, 2003 4:38 am

I agree that classes are supposed to be diffrent and that there are other factors in grouping like personality. But this mud has seemed to shift away from that. Now for alot of people its who's the best, who's the strongest, it doesn't matter if their an ass. I have a few people I group with now, they don't group with me cause i'm great, but becuase they like my attitude. Also my skills are maxed for their level, most of them are. The holy avenger, was something that made a paladin so cool, now it just makes him medicore. I first started playing a paladin for the rp reasons, i still play him for that, but once i found out about the holy avenger when i was a lil dork running around killing as many evil things as i could find, that made me wanna play one even more, now its like they are getting so bad, even thanuk wants a holy avenger.
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Postby Hyldryn » Fri Dec 19, 2003 4:45 am

I personally feel the changes to the avenger is a minor downtweak. I mean. It's not like the avenger does anything the paladin him/herself can't do. Its just a minor convenience. So now it just heals a bit less, and its still a minor convenience.

Honestly, I'd trade the slightly weaker heals just to get antipaladins off our back. Who, I might add get the ability to regularly heal hp (something the class doesn't have, making it far more valuable) in return for the harder quest.
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Postby Karae » Fri Dec 19, 2003 4:49 am

I would trade holy word, and slice for. THe older healing.
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Postby Eilistraee » Fri Dec 19, 2003 4:54 am

I may be going against a long set precedent, but I'll offer some of the reasoning behind the sword proc as I am the one that redid it for the most part. I know it sucks to have stuff change, and I'll tell you some of what led to the change.

1) It was NOT motivated by anti-paladin or any other class complaining. The proc was reworked after field testing and observation, both in the arena and without.

2) My first priority was to make certain the blade was suitable for a zone group. This meant removing stone skin and dispel magic. As per traditional holy avengers in AD&D, there is still the option to remove your foe's magic. It just doesn't happen against every spell any longer. Note, that Breach is a high level enchanter spell, and most weapons generally do not get a proc spell effect > 5th circle.

The stoneskin was a detriment to zoning. Yes it aided solo'ing but I was less concerned with solo-ability since it made the weapon unviable for when you need to be able to get dscaled. Yeah some paladins just removed the sword when their scales dropped, but this is the better way.

3) The healing has been removed from reliance upon having armor and bless active. It can happen at any point while you are wielding the weapon, whenever you are injured. Having the equivalent of a 5th circle spell cast upon you without you needing to do anything but take damage is very strong. In order to reflect the strength of the character, the healing power is based off of an element of your character; no I won't tell you which.

4) The roomwide dispel evil was replaced with holy word. This is a 7th circle spell that does some damage, and has the chance to stun those it affects. It also is not blocked by globe, and doesn't send the stupid 'mob chuckles at so and so's cluelessness" when the spell hits a !evil mob.

5) The slice proc was added to give a target proc option so your only procs were not area effect or dependant upon the target having spells. The damage is reasonable.

The holy avenger has one of the most diverse procs in the game. It can do all this and still has good dice and hit/damage bonuses. I'm sorry that it seems like a downgrade, but given the difficulty of the quest and what the sword originally did, I hope you can agree that it is both much more of a feasible zoning weapon, and is also greatly improved over the original proc.

If you feel an 'upgrade' quest is required, then contact an areas god or write a zone and include the upgrade proc.[/i]
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Postby Karae » Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:05 am

I do agree its much better zoning than it was before!

But it seems that like anything, it allways happens after changes come in after someone bitches about something be to powerful. And i know you guys don't play favorates, but sometimes it does happen, not saying that this is the case. So sometimes it makes people wonder if these are the cases or not.

And what ever this element is on my charater it must really suck cause i'm hardly ever getting healed

Also I have never seen breach work, i've only seen it proced twice, and that was against some plants that didn't even have spells up on them.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:13 am

You whine more than a ranger, wow.
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Re: Any Reason to be A paladin any more?? No didn't think so

Postby Stamm » Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:19 am

Karae wrote:OMG...
Ok lets see, any reasons not to be a pallie plenty.

1) Any warrior can tank just as good, or probbaly even better.
2) Any other race of warrior has better hit points, cept for those short creatins, like halfsters, and what not.
3) Warriors can get into almost any zone group, just because they are a warrior.
4) Anti-Paladins, our evil counterparts, can now group with anyone else in the whole freakin mud.
5) Why one of the coolest swords in the game, the thing that makes the paladin was the HOLY F**KIN AVENGER, now we got just the oh yeah, its the holy avenger. The changes of it tottaly screw us over.



And no warrior gets an incredibly spanky weapon like yours. Nor can they heal themselves, nor can they do as much damage as paladins.

You are seen by zone leaders as a tank. You may want to see about getting enough hps to be able to be main tank, and finishing off leveling, being level 50 with max skills makes a huge difference than being level 47.

Anti-paladins don't get xp bonuses from just about everything on the whole mud. They also can't heal themselves with a spell.

Any warrior would cut his bellend off to be able to use a holy avenger.

Paladins are not warriors. Warriors are not paladins.

You go on about soloing reavers. You think any warrior could do the same? Answer, no.

You've got to see the good with the bad.
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Postby Karae » Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:32 am

Yeah I know i can solo loads of stuff stamm, and yes i know holy avenger is spanky. Like everyone else, I hate it when my favoriate thing takes a dive. So i should have the right to complain also.
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Postby Dalar » Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:42 am

My god, instead of whining why don't you post something constructive? And this is your first char right?
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Postby Ambar » Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:01 am

why not take a step back and evaluate the fact that there are other classes out there .. try them ... or take a step backa way from the mud for a while ... any time you get this stressed over a game it's time to take a break ..

that or roll a different type hitter class and see what you can do ..
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Postby Sarell » Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:16 am

I reckon the sword is way cooler now. A: You can use it in a zone, once you hit 50 which doesn't take much effort with a paladin this will please you immensely (thumbs up to Eilistraee). Also agree with Stamm, your soloability is still the best of any melee class and tops many mage classes. I like having a pally in group to be honest. One thing I suggest to zoning pallies is to remember that you have layhands. In a two hour zone you get this badboy 4 times! Sure to be able to make yourself look like a hero at one point and everyone will cheer and touch you and stuff.
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Postby Pheten » Fri Dec 19, 2003 12:06 pm

You know usually I don't post stuff like this but Karae shut the hell up or get off the boards. God we don't need this crap on here, you post nothing but garbage with no actual ideas on how to make the situation better. Honestly what they did to the sword isnt that bad, would you rather they just yank the sword and say tough luck? WHINE WHINE WHINE W-H-I-N-E.

That is all, see all the posts above mine saying the same thing, get the hint, k?

-phet
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Postby Yayaril » Fri Dec 19, 2003 12:38 pm

Karae wrote:Well good Ihazim, but why take a class that can't offer much to a zone, when you can take some class thats better?

Yes there a few times a paladin is better, but not that much.


Because, people play the characters. I'd rather take the paladin that's my friend and I know over the warrior that I don't know. Plus, there might be a really awesome player who plays a paladin and really knows their stuff. I'd rather have that than an average warrior or even a pretty good warrior.

The difference between paladins and warriors is nominal. They both tank.
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Postby rylan » Fri Dec 19, 2003 2:40 pm

Eilistraee wrote: In order to reflect the strength of the character, the healing power is based off of an element of your character; no I won't tell you which.


Omg that would rock if it was based on total xp.
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Dec 19, 2003 2:58 pm

rylan wrote:
Eilistraee wrote: In order to reflect the strength of the character, the healing power is based off of an element of your character; no I won't tell you which.


Omg that would rock if it was based on total xp.


Or total sum of skills practice score?
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Postby belleshel » Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:16 pm

Ashiwi wrote:
rylan wrote:
Eilistraee wrote: In order to reflect the strength of the character, the healing power is based off of an element of your character; no I won't tell you which.


Omg that would rock if it was based on total xp.


Or total sum of skills practice score?


It's prestige based;)
And paladins are just fine.
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Postby Pheten » Fri Dec 19, 2003 6:29 pm

any idea how strongly it is prestige based? IE 1 extra hp healed for every 100 points or something?
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Postby mynazzaraxxsyn » Fri Dec 19, 2003 6:39 pm

How do you know its prestige based?
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Postby kiryan » Fri Dec 19, 2003 6:41 pm

first character and has an avenger at what level?

try a couple other classes and see how good you have it.

you won't be getting the class defining weapon pre 50 for any other classes without 10x as much work.

khanjari, bc dagger, unholy avenger, twilight, ancient mithril, finder's quest, oakvale quest... even windsong is 5x harder than avenger quest.
Last edited by kiryan on Fri Dec 19, 2003 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Tasan » Fri Dec 19, 2003 6:42 pm

Pheten wrote:any idea how strongly it is prestige based? IE 1 extra hp healed for every 100 points or something?


The problem here is it's not based on prestige, it's based on... size... Hence Karae is having problems getting anything above a few hp cure light.

T
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Dec 19, 2003 7:15 pm

Tasan wrote:
Pheten wrote:any idea how strongly it is prestige based? IE 1 extra hp healed for every 100 points or something?


The problem here is it's not based on prestige, it's based on... size... Hence Karae is having problems getting anything above a few hp cure light.

T


Does that mean that if Twyl were a paladin, all he'd get would be a band-aid and a "tough luck, dude"?
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Postby Lilithelle » Fri Dec 19, 2003 7:26 pm

Remove well from druids? Why not, we wouldn't mind! Its a misconception that druids are transport providers, we're nature invokers! Like normal invokers but way cooler.

Personally I don't invite paladins to zones, zones like clouds and seelie destroy their alignment. Zones like seelie where bashing is critical its pointless cause they can't bash mounted and don't tank those tough mobs well enough while not mounted. I presume they tank like APs, last seelie run I used APs, we had 2 APs and one warrior both near mass deaths resulted in 2 dead APs but one live warrior. I took 2 APs to muspelheim last night, they couldn't tank giants well even while mounted, now there's a zone where you can't bash the mobs anyway so you'd think they'd do ok by staying mounted but they got beaten up pretty badly. Not to mention the total pain in the behind that everytime I tried to move they'd get left behind cause we were indoors and they'd fail their indoor mount check. Or I'd order main tank into battle and the other AP wouldn't enter at the same time cause he failed his mount check so didn't follow.

Paladins need changes to make them tank better, at least tank evil mobs better. They should be the best tanks of evil mobs hands down, its what they live for. Paladins would be the type that would charge into battle against evil taking them all on, at least till the rest of the group got around to entering the fray :P
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Postby Gurns » Fri Dec 19, 2003 7:29 pm

Unfair! Paladins feel better after, uh, wielding their holy avenger? It used to be that only bards felt better after playing their instrument.
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Postby thanuk » Fri Dec 19, 2003 7:55 pm

I dunno if paladins are as bad as you think they are. I did air plane about a week ago, and Tubos tanked the bulk of it. He did fine. Of course, in clouds last night, he got knocked off his horse and dead in a round, but the same thing woulda happened if he were a warrior and got bashed so I don't see it as being that much different.

Whenever we do stuff with me and Selzan tanking, he holds his own. Does just as well as any warrior would, sometimes better with a carefully timed layhands. Whenever I do musp with Aristan he does fine, too. I do agree that the failed indoor mount check gets to be severely annoying, but it'd be pretty petty to not bring someone to a zone just because of that. (On a side note, does room height have any effect on this check? Muspelhiem rooms are big enough for a giant to walk through, and they are much larger than even a mount and rider, and yet they always fail?)

Honestly I can't think of any active warriors I would rather have over there than Selzan, either. Of course, I've grouped with some of the other paladins and antis, who I'm not going to call out here, and I'd rather have Weylarii be my 2nd tank than some of them. But that's true for some of the warriors too, so maybe its more the player then the class? I dunno.

Back on the topic of avenger, I think you did a really great job Eilistraee, the proc is alot more beneficial than the old stone/dispel, and sounds a bit better in terms of working as well as it should for the character. From what i've heard, the heals could use a little boost at the top end...level 30 paladin gettings like 30-50 hps on proc sounds about right, but i think level 50 uberl33t paladin should get more than 80-100. Just something I'd like to throw out there...Holy word proc on command, 1 per day or 2 days? Just because having a random area proc on a weapon can get annoying(ask Aristan about his fun clouds run!) and is sometimes more detrimental than it is worth.

The other idea I heard someone throwing around is a gradual improvement avenger, which i thought would be cool. Say like level 10 you get your first part of the quest, get a bare bones avenger, no procs, less dice and hit/dam. Then every 10 levels or so, your guildmaster will offer you an upgrade quest, gradually building the sword up to where it is now, or even maybe a step above where it is now after an epic level 50 quest? Since paladin/anti are basically going to wield avenger come hell or high water, I think it would be cool if they had it to use and work on through the levelling process. If you'd be interested in this, let me know, i'd be more than happy to write or help work on the quest.
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Postby Stamm » Fri Dec 19, 2003 8:37 pm

I don't know of any paladins/APs that are dressed in spanky pure tank gear (hps+ac). Perhaps Selzanis, I don't know what he wears too well.

Aristan for example dresses in damage gear, and despite that he can hold his own tanking.

I don't think you can expect a paladin to match a warrior for being a pure tank, and I think it would be unfair if they did, after all they get stuff warriors don't.

But I'm reasonably sure if you put a paladin in Crumar or my set of gear, he'd more than hold his own as a zone tank.

Something else... Hylae. He's a gelf, they're not known for their massive hitpoints... but he wears plenty of hps stuff, and as a result he has over 900 hps. That's 1150 with vit, which should be plenty for any cleric to work with. So if an elf warrior can get enough hps to tank, then paladins can too. The advantage with a paladin over a warrior is that even wearing a set of mage hps gear, a paladin would still be able to get Avenger procs.
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Postby Pheten » Sat Dec 20, 2003 1:36 am

Lilithelle wrote:
Personally I don't invite paladins to zones, zones like clouds and seelie destroy their alignment. Zones like seelie where bashing is critical its pointless cause they can't bash mounted and don't tank those tough mobs well enough while not mounted. I presume they tank like APs, last seelie run I used APs, we had 2 APs and one warrior both near mass deaths resulted in 2 dead APs but one live warrior. I took 2 APs to muspelheim last night, they couldn't tank giants well even while mounted, now there's a zone where you can't bash the mobs anyway so you'd think they'd do ok by staying mounted but they got beaten up pretty badly. Not to mention the total pain in the behind that everytime I tried to move they'd get left behind cause we were indoors and they'd fail their indoor mount check. Or I'd order main tank into battle and the other AP wouldn't enter at the same time cause he failed his mount check so didn't follow.

Lil


You musta gotta some bad AP's then, there have been multiple times I've done zones, musp, jot, BC, avernus.. ect where I am the last one alive and I'm rescuing more than most of the warriors in the group. Just need a person who knows how to play their class and how to dress like a tank and not a melee damage machine. Even after equipment changes I'm usually running around with as many or more hps than most warriors, -100ac all prots and hefty saves. I've seen many other Ap's who are wearing full damage gear with 500hps.. doesnt help them much when they get cut in half on the second round of tanking.

-phet
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Postby Lilithelle » Sat Dec 20, 2003 3:35 am

Actually it was aristan that was getting owned, I guess it could have been chanter not keeping him spelled up, or some other factor. I just wasn't impressed. Was Aristan and Rolaz in the Seelie run where both near spanks they died but Larem lived.
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Postby Jhorr » Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:57 am

Don't make me bust the old man out just to prove paladins can still rock this house. That said, mounted combat took a serious hit a while back thanks to jealous and outspoken warriors. Maybe it's time to revisit it if mounted knights now can't tank a giant better than a grey elf. While we're at it, make it possible to remount in combat with a saving throw check. After all, we can open doors in combat, why not remount my horse?

With regard to the avenger, holy word is more appropriate than dispel evil. Stoneskin saved me many times in zones once the enchanter died or forgot how to spell Jhorr so yeah I'll miss that. The heal proc never seemed to kick in when it was really needed anyway. Perhaps, a coup-de-grace proc ala unholy avenger would be appropriate and bring it more on par with the unholy avenger. Oh yeah, and please make the quest harder. At least reinvolve paladin of Torm. That's dumb that you don't have to find him to complete the quest. I like Nuk's idea about building the weapon too, that would be fun. Overall the new proc is not a serious tragedy for the class. Although, holy avenger should heal on average more than the faith sword. Haven't tested this to see if it does or not.
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Postby Yasden » Sat Dec 20, 2003 11:55 am

It wasn't so much missing spells as it was we were fighting giants that were wielding 2h weapons. 2h weapons make a huge difference with mobs doing damage through defensive spells. I was being hit for 100+ at least once every round *through* scales/blur/displace. The other fights on the grid weren't too bad though.

I already spoke to the coder who wrote the indoor mount check, hopefully something gets done about it soon. >:)

Me personally, I'm usually never MT in a group unless it's a small goof-off group or checking musp/jot at boot once in a while. Thus I don't see the need for wearing tank eq when I could be doing damage (and yes I'm still -100 ac with armor/bark and 18/52 with bless/wrath), however menial it might be compared to a rogue's. All my defense skills are maxed, including mount/mounted combat/rescue, so there's no difference really except I have 576 hps and some other mounted tanks might opt for 700+.

I think a remount command during combat would be nice to have, considering we get knocked off our horses almost instantly in dragon fights due to stupidass buffet. Which, incidentally, makes that nice lance from Muspelheim completely worthless for its vs. dragons stuff since you have to be mounted for it to work.

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Postby Hyldryn » Sat Dec 20, 2003 5:03 pm

Jhorr wrote:Maybe it's time to revisit it if mounted knights now can't tank a giant better than a grey elf.


I disagree.
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Postby Stamm » Sat Dec 20, 2003 5:54 pm

Hyldryn wrote:
Jhorr wrote:Maybe it's time to revisit it if mounted knights now can't tank a giant better than a grey elf.


I disagree.


I agree with you.

An elven warrior should tank better than a human paladin.

The way it stands just now paladins should always be mounted, so to compare them to warriors to have to consider them as mounted.

So the question is, should a mounted paladin tank better than a warrior? Answer is no I feel. Yes, they should be able to tank pretty well, but not as good as a warrior. That's all warriors have. Paladins can do more damage, get the spanky Avenger and can heal themselves.
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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Sat Dec 20, 2003 10:12 pm

ok, dunno how this turned into a bitch session of warriors vs paladins but heres my $.02. for the purposes of this post, i will use the term "Paladin" interchangably with anti-paladin, because they are quite similar.

Paladins arent' main tanks. They are a great backup tank. A paladin with the same gear as a warrior (exactly the same gear) will not tank as well as a warrior. period. Therefore, they are a second option to a warrior for main tank, either if warriors arent available or not enough of them available. Therefore, it is MY theory that the focus of the paladin should be a good mix of ac/hp/hit/dam/saves gear. All out for hp would be silly, as for the mostpart you shouldn't be tanking. Realistically, if and when melee dmg means something significant, hit/dam will be useful. I honestly think it is quite silly that there is hp gear at all. anyway, it's a happy balance of all things that makes for a decent paladin. and stop trying to compare yourself to a warrior, because they are different and don't work the same, probbably never will.
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Postby Lilithelle » Sat Dec 20, 2003 10:33 pm

So whats wrong with paladins being better tanks than warriors but only of evil aligned mobs? Their god is supposed to protect them from evil, should be more than just innate prot from evil :P As it is now they're just poor delusional humans thinking their god will help them, he won't, he doesn't care! Paladin mounted should tank evil mobs better than warriors, but they can't bash while mounted and not all mobs are evil, leaves lots of room for warriors and room for paladins. You'd actually deliberately take them to zones like jot. But for a zone like seelie and clouds they'd get stuck at home! Or not there as main tank.
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Postby Stamm » Sat Dec 20, 2003 10:38 pm

Because then paladins would be better tanks than warriors, and anti-paladins would get shafted because they'd only be useful in part of clouds, and in Seelie.

So unless warriors get a new role, then going by existing roles, paladins would then beat warriors for tanking, damage, solo stuff.
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Postby moritheil » Sat Dec 20, 2003 11:02 pm

Stamm wrote:Because then paladins would be better tanks than warriors, and anti-paladins would get shafted because they'd only be useful in part of clouds, and in Seelie.

So unless warriors get a new role, then going by existing roles, paladins would then beat warriors for tanking, damage, solo stuff.


Uh, in case it hasn't appeared evident, there are going to be a lot more good aligned mobs in zones in the future. Thus APs would be useful for the good-aligned mob zones, Paladins would be useful for the evil-aligned mob zones, and warriors would be useful all around.
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Postby Lilithelle » Sun Dec 21, 2003 6:34 am

Anti-paladins don't have to be the opposite of paladins, perhaps they could fill other roles or have other strengths. And maybe for paladins to have a place more than just as fillers that warriors will have to make a bit of room. They will not be made obsolete by what I propose.
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Postby Ihazim » Sun Dec 21, 2003 6:48 am

some places approach it by having paladins be extremely defensive and anti paladins extremely offensive
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Postby thanuk » Sun Dec 21, 2003 3:13 pm

You know what I love? A thread full of casters talking about how the roles of the tank classes should be divided up.

I can play too!

Maybe half-elf druids should be allowed to well from prime to other planes, but elf druids shouldn't. Then human druids could have doom do 2x as much damage as the other two kinds, but they don't get moonwell at all. And then elf druids can only cast pass without trace on evermeet, because they are elves and their gods wouldn't want them playing with the plants outside of the elven island!
Last edited by thanuk on Sun Dec 21, 2003 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Yarash » Sun Dec 21, 2003 3:25 pm

thanuk wrote:You know what I love? A thread full of casters talking about how the roles of the tank classes should be divided up.


It reminds me of the warriors that complained so much about casters having too many hp.

- Mike
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Postby thanuk » Sun Dec 21, 2003 3:27 pm

Yarash wrote:
thanuk wrote:You know what I love? A thread full of casters talking about how the roles of the tank classes should be divided up.


It reminds me of the warriors that complained so much about casters having too many hp.

- Mike


Hey man, I said that we ALL had too many hps, not just the casters.
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Postby Yarash » Sun Dec 21, 2003 3:31 pm

thanuk wrote:
Yarash wrote:
thanuk wrote:You know what I love? A thread full of casters talking about how the roles of the tank classes should be divided up.


It reminds me of the warriors that complained so much about casters having too many hp.

- Mike


Hey man, I said that we ALL had too many hps, not just the casters.


Well, other warriors :). I'm just saying we all love getting in each other's business, not just casters ;)

- Mike

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