Any Reason to be A paladin any more?? No didn't think so.

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Ruxur
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Postby Ruxur » Fri Dec 26, 2003 4:01 am

what does the number 675 mean to karae?


thats the number of hit points ruxur had after killing him strait up 1v1 in the arena.




yep pallies rock in the arena alright.
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Gura
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Postby Gura » Fri Dec 26, 2003 4:41 am

1 time? wow that says nothing at all. go fight 20 more times and see if it happens again. if it does then karae cant play his own class.
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Hyldryn
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Postby Hyldryn » Fri Dec 26, 2003 4:42 am

What is it straight up, no flee?
Karae
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Postby Karae » Fri Dec 26, 2003 6:14 am

yes it was straight up no flee.

And besides, i knew I was going to lose. And don't give me the crap I don't know how to play my class, cause I do. Besides I'm not eq'd like all you other people, I don't care to much for zoning, that is nto why I play here.
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:47 pm

moritheil wrote:
Stamm wrote:Because then paladins would be better tanks than warriors, and anti-paladins would get shafted because they'd only be useful in part of clouds, and in Seelie.

So unless warriors get a new role, then going by existing roles, paladins would then beat warriors for tanking, damage, solo stuff.


Uh, in case it hasn't appeared evident, there are going to be a lot more good aligned mobs in zones in the future. Thus APs would be useful for the good-aligned mob zones, Paladins would be useful for the evil-aligned mob zones, and warriors would be useful all around.


I see that no one had an answer for this.

Add to that that warrior hps now matter more with less hps available from eq, and the fact that warriors use shields and thus will always be needed for bashing.

I'm not playing the "Paladins must be better than warriors at something" angle so much as pointing out that a lot of changes here seem to reflect insecurities rather than reason.
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Ahxeriden Aethorcyn
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Postby Ahxeriden Aethorcyn » Fri Jul 30, 2004 6:37 pm

We're hybrids. We are good at two things, damage and sometimes tanking, but we will not surpass a rogue/voker for damage nor will we surpass a warrior who knows what he's doing.

You usually get in a group because they like your company, and/or you know your class well.

This bitching about you not being able to solo like you used to doesn't hold water, this mud is based around zoning, and the weapon changed to benefit that purpose. You wanna solo, start a shaman, druid, ele, necro.

I started an AP knowing full-well I wasn;t going to get the groups a base class would. I think you knew the same for your paladin.
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Postby Dalar » Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:24 am

moritheil wrote:I see that no one had an answer for this.

Add to that that warrior hps now matter more with less hps available from eq, and the fact that warriors use shields and thus will always be needed for bashing.

I'm not playing the "Paladins must be better than warriors at something" angle so much as pointing out that a lot of changes here seem to reflect insecurities rather than reason.


Exactly what date are you living in Moritheil? EQ changes were back in October. Right now u can get at least 200-300 hp from equipment. Paladins can bash too with shields.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Pril » Sun Aug 01, 2004 2:20 pm

So having a paladin as m main i feel that i an add my 2 cents.

1) The avenger changes: For the most part these changes are good. The fact that it no longer procs dispel magic (which used to dispel silences in a zones) and no longer porcs stone (which ow allows us to get dscaled in zones) is great for grouping. Yeah it makes soloing harder but hey try bing social you'd be surprised at the people you meet on the mud. The Holy word proc is nice esp when it blinds the mobs and we all know about breech. True the heal rate was decreased but hey there's a simple solution to that, take less damage.

2) Avenger quest: IS A JOKE! if anyone knows how many times i've done this quest out of sheer boredom and some people do they'd know what i think about the quest. There's NO reason that a quest for a weopon like that should be able to be completed in 1 day, none. You see when people complain about stats on avenger they don't take into account that the quest is a joke, it's almost easier to do the quest for avenger then wait for faith to pop.

3) Paladin tanking vs. Warrior tanking: if you think for 1 minute that paladin tanking and warrior taking is even close to being the same you're nuts. And i don't mean one is better than the other but the styles are different.
a) First of all a good warrior will have around 1.2k hps unvitted. While a paladin can easily get 8-900. When you ocmbine that with lay hands that's 1.6-1.8k hps not to mention random avenger heal procs.
b) Shield Block vs. Mounted combat: They are the same except that a paladin can get nocked off his horse and not be able to remount.
c) bash vs. charge: bash has an advantage in SC that's rally the only place. Other than that i believe charge does more damage, plus when you are mounted your steed has a chance to get an extra attack.
d) damage: doesn't compare when i wanted to i'd run around with a 15/55 hit/dam NO warrior can do that.

not only that but I can't count the amount of times when a fight's gone bad and i've used lay hands on a healer or tank to save group because lets face it pallie exp is a joke so unless we're loosing skills/perm hps it doesn't matter how many times we die.

These classes are different personally i think there could be minor tweaks but unless a zone requires bashing like seelie i think paladins hold their own and when played right, and not many people do, can save a group. Let's face it i've been in SO many zones as my voker where a paldin has died and then said oh yeah i forgot i had lay. People don't plevel yerselves learn to play your classes.

Pril
Delmair Aamoren
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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Sun Aug 01, 2004 3:15 pm

Ahxeriden Aethorcyn wrote:We're hybrids. We are good at two things, damage and sometimes tanking, but we will not surpass a rogue/voker for damage nor will we surpass a warrior who knows what he's doing.


For the record, paladins SUCK ASS at damage. all of the good +dam gear
is prettymuch !good. So no, not good at two things. Hell, even if you DID
have comparable gear to what !good can have, you still wouldn't be
GOOD at either. Take it from someone who has played this "hybrid" for
a good number of years. If i hadn't put so much time and effort into
my anti, as well as finding some personal joy in being so evil, i would
be a warrior. hands down. They are better tanks in almost every
situation (with similar eq), they have the ability to bash while tanking,
they have the ability to more reliably stun (and for a longer duration),
and have CONSIDERABLY more hp. As far as damage goes, any warrior
can quite easily compete with an antipaladin for damage. The only
big difference is "dark wrath" which adds about 3 damroll, and bless which
adds 2 hitroll. All in all, considering barbs and dwarves can be warriors,
at LEAST one of the dam is cancelled out with the improved str alone.

Most of these complaints are pretty right on. The class is NOT balanced
in terms of playability, but as i see it, is a RP option for those who aren't
COMPLETELY stat freaks.
Delmair Aamoren
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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Sun Aug 01, 2004 3:29 pm

Pril wrote:So having a paladin as m main i feel that i an add my 2 cents.

1) The avenger changes: For the most part these changes are good. The fact that it no longer procs dispel magic (which used to dispel silences in a zones) and no longer porcs stone (which ow allows us to get dscaled in zones) is great for grouping. Yeah it makes soloing harder but hey try bing social you'd be surprised at the people you meet on the mud. The Holy word proc is nice esp when it blinds the mobs and we all know about breech. True the heal rate was decreased but hey there's a simple solution to that, take less damage.

2) Avenger quest: IS A JOKE! if anyone knows how many times i've done this quest out of sheer boredom and some people do they'd know what i think about the quest. There's NO reason that a quest for a weopon like that should be able to be completed in 1 day, none. You see when people complain about stats on avenger they don't take into account that the quest is a joke, it's almost easier to do the quest for avenger then wait for faith to pop.

3) Paladin tanking vs. Warrior tanking: if you think for 1 minute that paladin tanking and warrior taking is even close to being the same you're nuts. And i don't mean one is better than the other but the styles are different.
a) First of all a good warrior will have around 1.2k hps unvitted. While a paladin can easily get 8-900. When you ocmbine that with lay hands that's 1.6-1.8k hps not to mention random avenger heal procs.
b) Shield Block vs. Mounted combat: They are the same except that a paladin can get nocked off his horse and not be able to remount.
c) bash vs. charge: bash has an advantage in SC that's rally the only place. Other than that i believe charge does more damage, plus when you are mounted your steed has a chance to get an extra attack.
d) damage: doesn't compare when i wanted to i'd run around with a 15/55 hit/dam NO warrior can do that.


Pril


ok, second time i have written this. stupid explorer. so this is truncated version.

1/2) yes, avenger rocks for its quest. the quest is way too easy, have
been pointing this out for years now. Unholy avenger is a MUCH harder
quest based on the fact you need many different rares. Granted there
is more reward, so it's easier to get some help, but still terribly boring
and in no way could be completed in 1 day without a TON of reboots, and
a small army of help.

3)
a)correct, but lay hands is 1/24 minutes. warriors have that hp all the
time. not sure if you were comparing this as a positive or negative point.
just clarifying here... =P
b)100% right on. but don't forget you can't bash/kick while mounted, and
you can while using shield block. Bonus for mounted is you can use 2h
while mounted! not quite an even trade, but not a total loss.
c)should be shield punch vs charge. bash and charge are VERY different.
and to make this argument FOR you. Bash makes the mob prone, so they
take 1.5X damage, is reliable, and can be "enhanced" by wearing +wt
or a heavy shield. Charge has a chance to hit (bout 50% or so) stuns the
mob for MAYBE 1 round and is truly only good for a CHANCE to interrupt
casting. Charge also lags the chargER longer than the chargED.
d) true, there is no way a warrior could hit consistently with a 15/55 hit/dam. but as far as equipment is concerned, they have as good of a
selection as the mounted classes. the only class specific items aren't any better for a warrior than what is available already to them. one things
warriors DO get to make up for this damage difference is a neat little skill
called HEADBUTT. it does incredible damage (at least pvp) and very
rarely will it knock out the headbuttER if you have it trained pretty well.

What it comes down to is this:
They are different. Warriors are in MOST fields superior, but overall aren't
THAT much better. Sure a few tweaks are needed perhaps, but overall
the paladin/anti have prettymuch been branded an RP class anyway.

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