Proposal for a New Ranger Class

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Sarvis
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Postby Sarvis » Tue Apr 27, 2004 6:29 pm

Delmair Aamoren wrote:Instead of a spell, give rangers haste type skill. can release a flurry (1-3 extra attacks for a round with a cost of movement).



I kind of like that idea. Dunno about costing movement though, do rogues lose movement for using circle?
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Talomis
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Postby Talomis » Tue Apr 27, 2004 8:42 pm

ok seriously...lets just take rangers out of the game, and add monks...enough said.
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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:27 pm

Who cares if rogues loose movement for circle. rangers are NOT rogues.
Other than that, circle has some pretty fierce lag associated with it.
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Postby Sylvos » Fri Apr 30, 2004 6:14 pm

circ navy
esc n
You pierce the navy seaman.

< 349h/327H 80v/113V >
< T: ******* TC: excellent E: navy EC: few scratches P: std >
The navy seaman hits you hard.
You dodge the navy seaman's vicious attack.
You miss the navy seaman with your pierce.
You pierce the navy seaman hard.

< 328h/327H 81v/113V >
< T: ******* TC: excellent E: navy EC: few scratches P: std > Along the Docks of Waterdeep
Exits: -N -E -S
You escape northward!


I can live with the insane lag, thanks.
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Postby Sarvis » Fri Apr 30, 2004 6:55 pm

Delmair Aamoren wrote:Who cares if rogues loose movement for circle. rangers are NOT rogues.
Other than that, circle has some pretty fierce lag associated with it.


Circle and this flurry attack idea both serve the same purpose. So why should it act have a different cost than circle? Every other damage skill in the game has lag associated with it, so why wouldn't this one?

On the other hand, I'm not sure it wouldn't be more useful if based on movement points. I mean, we'd still be able to rescue and such while using the skill. We could also use vigs to restore the movement points...
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Apr 30, 2004 8:35 pm

I know this is a ranger thread and I shouldn't be adding, but movement cost for circle seems to make sense to me. I have to maneuver myself to get around my target, after all... it's not like he's gonna stand there letting me stick sharp things in his back and not even TRY to get out of the way.
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Postby kiryan » Sat May 01, 2004 1:23 pm

maybe ranger could be thought of or imped as a warrior remort and granted abilities as such.
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Postby Vahok » Sat May 01, 2004 1:31 pm

kiryan wrote:maybe ranger could be thought of or imped as a warrior remort and granted abilities as such.


Now there is an interesting idea...ranger remort, maybe berzerker remort...great idea Kiryan!
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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Sat May 01, 2004 5:10 pm

From what i understand, and recall from days past...

Remorting is probbably never going to be an option here. Based on that, i am surprised that liches even exist. Perhaps that was a decision of previous mud co-ordination, but i haven't seen anything sofar here that would indicate that things are any different in that regard. Next we'd be adding mercs back as remorts. Heck, with ranger or berserker as remort, might as well make paladin and anti-paladin remort classes too! *snicker*

Bad idea. period.
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quick fix...

Postby raneshir » Sun May 02, 2004 9:39 pm

most obvious:
1) loss bash, give them trip instead. Make rangers trip as well as rogues

other ideas:
2) loose nature's blessing and give them evasion instead. Worse than rogues better than bards

3) allow more weapons to proc offhanded either generally or in ranger's hands. wt limit on weapons would still severly limit choices.

4) in outdoor situations give them light version of escape. Far worse than rogues, worse than bards. Skill works better outdoors than indoors.

not a fan of any additional attack ideas. Im getting 4 attacks regularly now unhasted. obviously the more the merrier but not needed. 6 attacks hasted with potential to wield weapons that give more is plenty.
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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Mon May 03, 2004 12:28 am

never really understood why some weapons didn't proc offhand. not like they know which hand they are being wielded in! rangers are ideally equally proficient with either hand. more procs dualing! great idea!
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Postby Dalar » Mon May 03, 2004 2:22 am

I never understood why paladn/antipaladin/rangers weren't remorts to begin with. Gods just don't grant random powers to every whiner in game. You have to earn it. I think a remort for all of the specialized melee classes would be an awesome idea. Would be a good reason for them to get an upgrade. Of course, make sure their non-remorted counterparts (warriors) still have functions too!
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Mon May 03, 2004 4:01 pm

They aren't remorts because the previous ownership of the mud hated remorts. Don't know if that holds true now. Personally i don't think its that big of an issue.
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Postby Ashod » Tue May 04, 2004 4:53 am

if you do remorts for melee.. then someone will say that mages should all be remorts specilized from a wizard or sorc class..

i don't care ither way.. just figured i would point it out.
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Postby Dalar » Tue May 04, 2004 5:22 pm

Ashod wrote:if you do remorts for melee.. then someone will say that mages should all be remorts specilized from a wizard or sorc class..

i don't care ither way.. just figured i would point it out.


I don't think they could argue that. You specialize in a certain type of magic, which shouldn't take a remort.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Rangers deffinately need some help

Postby digion » Fri May 07, 2004 3:47 am

Hiya all, long time no log.
I have played sojourn/toril as a Ranger for close to 8 years now. I dont think anyone can make the argument that rangers are usefull when there were always 4-5 of us sitting 1 west after reboot. Last time I logged on I was the only Ranger on. Lets face it, they serve no real purpose in groups that cant be done BETTER by some other class. Tanking is for warriors, dammage is for vokers or rogues, and luring can be done just as well if not better than rogues. Besides ALL of that, there is a stygma to being a ranger. Unless you have a name that has been arround for 8 years, you just dont get zone groups as a ranger.

I have since retired from the mud and given my gear away. It was just so frustrating. Yes, this is what I have often posted about before and I almost always get the response "Quit your whining and roll a caster." But that is the whole point, I shouldn't HAVE to roll a caster. Ranger is a very fun class to play, however it is the most frustrating. Of course I do not envy the work load that Enchanters and Clerics have NOR do I envy their XP tables (more improvements that need to be done), but they have a guaranteed spot in any zone or xp group.

Of course there are those who like to take rangers, but to be honest they are depriving the group of a slot that could be better filled by somebody else. I do not claim to know the answer. A haste spell and a melee upgrade may indeed be the best answer. One of the only times I really found the Ranger class to be accepted and wanted in groups was way back in Sojourn 2 when perm haste was in the game. Granted, warrior classes WAY overpowered casters back then. However, I think that we could upgrade melee and give rangers haste without returning to those days of imbalance. If anything, I think it would even the balance out more. Ultimately, in its present state, Ranger class is only really usefull at draining players dry of passion and drive for the game. It was enough to get me to retire after several years of devoted gameplay.

I don't know if there will ever be upgrades to rangers, everyone seams to dislike rangers and at least use to say they were already too overpowered. I have played a few classes, and ranger BY FAR gets WAY WAY WAY fewer tells for groups. That alone should be proof.
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Postby Depok » Fri May 07, 2004 12:41 pm

The interesting thing is that when you take away the gear and the need for sneak/hide, the choice is to bring a ranger vs bring a rogue.

How do I know? Because we NEVER bring a rogue to spob and we always bring a Ranger. Of course part of the reason is that you don't need to sneak/fold past mobs in Spob.
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Postby Dalar » Fri May 07, 2004 3:05 pm

get rid of fold?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Depok » Fri May 07, 2004 5:16 pm

Ideally you leave fold in as an optional way to do a zone. So if I am writing a zone (no I am not) I would put a way that would be longer but safer where you couldn't use a folder/rogue and another way in that is far harder but faster where you could bring a folder/rogue to try to get through.

Sort of a risk vs reward scenario.

I am not a fan of removing things that can speed up the game however.
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Postby fotex » Fri May 07, 2004 7:07 pm

Dalar wrote:get rid of fold?


get rid of ghetto folds too

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