dispelling the sVpetri myth (maybe!)

[Demuladon]

I would like to hear other peoples experiences with sVpetri. Here is the test I did to check the effect of sVpetri for myself.

Aim :
To test the effect of -15sVpetri on stone skin duration

Proceedure :
50th duergar elementalist had load=no sweat,agi=100, dodge~17, with elemental air embod giving ac=-46, and a spellcast enchantment=98

(i) I measured stone skin duration out of combat with 0sVpetri and -15sVpetri
(ii) To measure duration during combat I used a perma blinded DK cruel illithid as test mob. I would stone myself and immediately attack it, then count the number of times mob hit me before stone fell. After stone fell I fled, re-stoned myself and repeated.

After counting hits for 28 stone skins at 0sVpetri
I switched to -15sVpetri and counted hits for 28 stone skins.

Note that the DK cruel illithid was a good candidate for this test because it hits once per round and is !warrior (ie. no bashing or kicking to mess up stone) and cons as "perfect match" to me at level 50.
Note also that 0sVpetri and -15sVpetri data was collected off same mob ie. I didn't kill the mob until after testing.
As a final note I imagined that -15sVpetri would be enough to see an effect on stone skin duration, if such an effect existed.


Results :

(i) Stone skin duration outside combat was around 4mins30s for both 0 and -15sVpetri
(ii) Stone skin duration during combat:
For 28 stone skins with 0sVpetri average was 9.0 hits until stone fell, with 10 crits in 252 hits (crit-thru-stone rate 4%).
For 28 stone skins with -15sVpetri average was 9.3 hits until stone fell, with 3 crits in 260 hits (crit-thru-stone rate 1%).

Discussion :
(i) Stone skin spell duration out of combat is not affected by sVpetri.
(ii) During combat the number of hits from mob until stone skin falls seems to be mostly uneffected having 0sVpetri compared with -15sVpetri. This is a surprize to me, since it is largely accepted that "sVpetri gives stones a few more chips".

What -15sVpetri does seem to do is reduce the number of critical hits that get through the stone skin while it is up. With -15sVpetri I measured a crit-thru-stone reduction from 4% to 1%, however more data is required to prove this conlusively. Also, I have a gut feeling that the crits that do get through the stone skin with -15sVpetri seem to do less damage, since during the 0sVpetri testing I needed to take a break to heal a few times whereas with the -15sVpetri no break for healing was required.


Conclusion :

-15sVpetri does not appear to add "a few chips" to stoneskin during combat, nor increase it's duration outside combat. So sVpetri maybe "buggy" or maybe it was never intended to (significantly) increase duration of stone skin.

In terms of critical hit reduction it wouldn't surprize me if, when you are stoned or scaled and mob crits you, a sVpetri roll is made to check whether the crit is absorbed by the stone skin.

I will repeat this test at some future date with -20sVpetri (when I feel particularly bored!) in case there is some non-linear affect between stone skin duration and sVpetri.


Test data copyrighted by Duergar Laboratories Inc. To reproduce this data in any format please apply for permission at the Notched Axe Inn (Gloomhaven) where the author will often be found furthering his work on Advanced Fluid Dynamics.

[Stamm]

To draw any more conclusions, you would need to test against that illithid a lot more than you have done so far I think.

But nothing you've said changes the way I understood save pet to work.

EDIT : This post isn't supposed to be negative. I was very interested in what you have done and should say thanks for all the time you put in to it :)

[Demuladon]

ps. during these tests caster's int=108

Agreed Stamm - definitely need more data to confirm that the sVpetri crit-thru-stone rate reduction effect is real.
I think the stats are good enough to show that -15sVpet has no significant effect on stone skin duration.

Future testing of stone skin might include:

-examine the effect of better sVpetri ie. sVpetri=-20
-examine the effect of casters intelligence
-examine the effect of attacking mob level on stone skin duration ie. maybe stone skin has "less chips" if attacking mob hits harder, and "more chips" if attacking mob hits softer.

If any volunteers want to help out with these stone skin tests let me know - we can split up the testing.

A help file on sVpetri and effect on stone skin would help here *wink* - but might take away some of the fun of testing/guessing! For example, if good sVpetri *does* reduce crit rate thru stone, it shows the subtle (and sneaky!) way the gods minds work :)


pps. took about two hours of hit counting for the above stone skin test, which has cured me of all curiosity for the time being.

[Kegor]

This is another interesting example of items implemented for a purpose that do not offer an advantage toward that purpose. Perhaps the game is not completed in the way of zones where save vs petrification would be an advantage to wear, such as in the case of mobs specifically designed to petrify opponents (bassilisk, dracolisisk, anything in the ilisk family and a few more I don't recall at this time). Would be fun to see this stat applied as it was intended in D&D, rather than a figment of imaginary benifit.

[fotex]

Nice work, demuladon. always was curious what the effect of svpetri was.

[Ihazim]

test for positive sv petri 8)

[rylan]

I believe the ongoing 'rumor' is that sv_pet increases the hp threshold that stone will block... hence that would support the reduced crit through stone rate that you noticed.

[Stamm]

test for negative sv petri 8)

Good idea...


Instead of testing 0 v -15 or -20, test as positive as you can against as negative as you can.

[Demuladon]

Thanks all - that's a good idea to test +sVpetri against -20sVpetri.

If crit-thru-stone rate increases with +sVpetri it would be strong evidence to support the rumor Rylan mentions re:sVpetri affecting damage threshold for stone skin.

LF:+sVpetri gear!

[Shevarash]

Well I'm not going to let the cat out of the bag, but I will say that there's nothing 'buggy' with sv_petri as it relates to stoneskin/dragonscales. :)

Nice work Demuladon.

[Dalar]

I tested this about a year or two ago myself and came up with the same conclusion. You get crit'd less with sv petri and stoneskin. Rumors such as # of hits and other stuff are just that. rumors.