xp bonus for offpeak periods

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irta
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xp bonus for offpeak periods

Postby irta » Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:09 am

At certain times of the day, especially on the evil side, it's impossible to construct a good xp group. In an effort to get people mudding more, these offpeak periods should provide a substantial xp bonus. This is going to keep players leveling their characters instead of logging off until a good xp group available. This is complicated of course by the fact that some classes (depending on their levels as well) need a good xp group and others can do well soloing, but the mud needs to err on the side of giving xp. Right now, if an xp group isn't available, classes that classically need groups to xp are lucky if they make a quarter of the xp they would in an xp group, and at a higher risk of dying too. The xp should still be worse then they would get in an xp group, just not so bad that it's not worth doing.
Sarell
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Postby Sarell » Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:18 am

I honestly find it easier to exp in Australian time a during prime US time everyone is zoning. Tho I couldn't possibly be aginst increasing exp in the time I always exp! :P
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Postby Sesexe » Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:18 am

I Don't agree with this idea at all. How do you even decide when is prime time? It is different for different folks. That's the beauty of online gaming.

I'd support dumbing down the exp in exp grids, and increasing it in actual zones, low, mid, and high.

Real battle experience should be vastly greater then 'practice' experience. This would help make mid level and low level zones used again, and help increase player knowledge of the mud/themselves and thereby decrease the clueless highlevel noob factor.
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Postby Kegor » Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:57 am

Those exp grids are nice for rifting prime for certain spots.. other than that they do not serve the purpose they were created for. They also defy RP in a few ways as far as the mobs found in those particular spots, and mirrored in ever other spot just like it. I think we should just get rid of them altogether.

As for exp bonus for people during certain times? Makes no sense.
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Postby gimaki » Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:04 pm

Remove the grids (nobody would miss them).
Up exps in all zones (esp :low, mid).
Drop the exps for 'xp-zones' drastically.

There currently is a zone-penalty on exps. If you went out exploring, learning the mud, your actually hurting your leveling, this shouldn't be the case.
irta
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Postby irta » Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:11 pm

Jaznolg wrote:Those exp grids are nice for rifting prime for certain spots.. other than that they do not serve the purpose they were created for. They also defy RP in a few ways as far as the mobs found in those particular spots, and mirrored in ever other spot just like it. I think we should just get rid of them altogether.

As for exp bonus for people during certain times? Makes no sense.


As an alternative they can make xp more sensible where hard solo kills actually gain xp (less then groups of course but not meaningless. Right now the difficulty of the kill has very little meaning, with mobs like ferns providing rocking experience.

The xp grids should definitely go away, they are not only boring and defy RP, but they teach newbies nothing. If the mud is to be newbie friendly, these have got to be blown away completely. Also, up zone xp to account for the increased risk both in deaths and CR time over doing "conventional" xp.
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Postby Dalar » Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:09 pm

zone penalty for exp? no, it's just that most zones don't have manually adjusted exp.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby gimaki » Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:31 pm

By zone penalty, I mean by far the fastest way to gain exps is to sit in DS. People turn down zones to exp, because if you go hit a zone your missing out on valuable xp time;). It's extremely silly. Smoke, Pship, DS all need drastic xp reductions. Also make it trophy actually mean something. With mobs at 5+ I would still get far more exps in a exp zone than leaving to find another place. If a mob shows on trophy (post level 30) your exps should be less than 10% of what it was before you started slaying it.
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Postby Sesexe » Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:48 pm

gimaki wrote:Remove the grids (nobody would miss them).
Up exps in all zones (esp :low, mid).
Drop the exps for 'xp-zones' drastically.


I like your line of thinking. :D

I do have a concern about zones like BGR. BGR teaches you landscape of the mud to a degree, it isn't a simple square/rectangular grid. You can go to other places via BGR.

So should zones like BGR not be changed? Only the 'grid' grids that serve no purpose other then exp'n a char? Or should the mobs farther down the trail be worth more then the ones closer to the begining? So the farther away from home you go, the more experience the mobs are worth?
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Postby Dalar » Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:12 pm

Heh I don't think I'd play if DS/ship exp is decreased. Why? Because exp takes forever with DS. Imagine exp without it. I don't find 1 hour for 10% of exp (outside of DS/ship) appealing.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Sarell » Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:48 pm

omg took me so long to post my catchphrase!

Upgrade trophy downgrade exp tables!
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Postby Areandon » Wed Mar 24, 2004 2:07 pm

Xp is way too hard. Period. As a newbie it took me months and months to reach 50. Granted I play an enchanter and they have the worst xp table. But like 2-3% an hour in DS at lvl 50 is ridiculous.

Xp should be easy enough that i can get 25% xp in an hour or 2 with DS xp. Then remove DS and zones like that and up the xp in real zones, or make DS and xp zones a bit more challenging.
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Postby Sylvos » Wed Mar 24, 2004 3:34 pm

Hell, let's screw all this xp shit and just give everybody lvl50 characters right when they roll up. Why bother with taking time to learn what you can do with a character? [/sarcasm]
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Postby gimaki » Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:49 pm

If you are busy exploring the mud, slaying mobs from all around, I think you should be able to level up far faster than is currently possible with exp-zones.

The whole reason to drop exp zones exps isn't to make it take longer to level, its to make exping outside those zones the ideal way to level a char (boost the exps across the mud, but lower them in exp only zones). Mind numbling killing the same mobs over and over is silly. If you've killed something enough for it to be visible on trophy you should be getting 10% max exps for it (0 would be better).

It would make chars actually explore the mud, do the smaller zones that are never done. Exp rates should be higher in zones then they are currently in any exp-zone. But if you plan to live in DS killing the same mobs for 30 levels, learning nothing about the mud or your class, you should be prepared to be there for a long long time.

Upgrade trophy, upgrade zone exps, downgrade exp-zones!
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Postby Sesexe » Wed Mar 24, 2004 6:16 pm

Amen Brother! Preach On! :D
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Postby Stamm » Wed Mar 24, 2004 8:00 pm

I still think the problem isn't xp (barring xp grids (bad!) and unfair rewards (DS compared to other zones)). It's that there is nothing to do until you can do high level zones, because people give eq to newbies.
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Postby gimaki » Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:16 pm

Stamm wrote:I still think the problem isn't xp (barring xp grids (bad!) and unfair rewards (DS compared to other zones)). It's that there is nothing to do until you can do high level zones, because people give eq to newbies.


That's the point Stamm, its giving them something meaningful to do. Equipment is a side benefit but the largest benefit is the faster leveling rate. I'm tired of level 40+'s that don't know how to get from IC to CP, its silly. If you could level much faster by doing something like citadel, with side benefits of minor gear, why not. If you learn the mud while exping even better. Knowledge > Gear.
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Postby kiryan » Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:53 pm

my 2 cents...

1. Adjust the classless exp penalty

killing classless mobs is completely worthless. You take similar amount of damage causing you nearly the same amount of downtime from killing a classed mob and classed mobs rarely get to use their skills anyways cuz players adjust (bash, disarm, blind). maybe classed mobs should be worth less like 80% of a classed mob, but as it stands, they seem to be worth much less than half.

I hate seeing all these exp grids which are out of theme and populated with mobs that are worthless to kill. I dislike seeing level 50+ mobs flagged rogue (with no dagger) just for exp bonuses or war/tog for bigger bonuses.

I think its interesting that by making mobs clr/war/mu your basically saying that exp groups with a basher get a huge exp bonus (they can kill classed mobs and get an indirect exp bonus of what at least 50%)... maybe that bonus should only be 15-30%. Note that this change will probably have an indirect affect of causing most casters to want to solo because of how trophy affects their exp rate (see point 2).

2. Consider how trophy is levied disporportionally to various classes

Trophy is probably only taken into account during the actualy split of kill exp and is not taken into account at all in damage exp. This puts classes who do little to no damage at a significant disadvantage in that trophy has a much more pronounced affect on their exp gain rate than a damage dealing class. A rogue and enc may get the same cut of kill exp minus trophy, but the rogue also gets 100 times more damage exp.

Other thoughts...

The exp adjustment 1-45 10% easier and 46-50 10% harder made it a lot easier to get to a useful level, but probably also increased the hatred of doing exp through those painful final levels.

What benefit would noobs get by getting to 50 faster. The high end game is about eq, few leaders take green players to zones (why wouldnt they invite their friends first, and some zones are very challenging, why bring a headache). If you think about it, exping gives them a chance to get noticed to meet people, shortening it would meet their needs for instant gratification but potentially bore them when they are unable to find zone groups even at 50.
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
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Postby Demuladon » Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:46 pm

Gimaki wrote:
Upgrade trophy, upgrade zone exps, downgrade exp-zones!


Don't upgrade trophy to much.. but.. upgrade zone exps hard, downgrade exp-zones harder.

Reasoning : if trophy is upgraded too much then it might become difficult to keep 50th level?

Hypothetical situation 1: trophy is upgraded hard and then afterwards if you have "trophied" on every mob in say, the top 20 zones you regulary do, then how do you make up the xp from zone deaths?

Hypothetical situation 2: you really want that uber cool piece of equipment from *uber zone*. You lost bid on item after first run through *uber zone* but now you have trophied on everymob in zone. You need to do *uber zone* 15 times before you win your bid, yet you have died 30 times now in the zone and gained no xp after the first run and you are down 150%.

These are extremes .. but something to consider if upgrading trophy.
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Postby Demuladon » Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:56 pm

ps.

Hypothetical 2 assumes you never failed a res. Upgraded trophy and failed res's would be nasty indeed!
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Postby gimaki » Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:41 am

I think your taking it way to the extreme. Most zones have tons of different mobs, and as long as you just didn't camp the same zone you would be fine.
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Fri Mar 26, 2004 7:22 am

Sylvos wrote:Hell, let's screw all this xp shit and just give everybody lvl50 characters right when they roll up. Why bother with taking time to learn what you can do with a character? [/sarcasm]



I have nothing to add about the thread, I just wanted to point out that Sylvos cursed. THE WORLD IS ENDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


:)
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Postby Teyaha » Sun Mar 28, 2004 8:09 pm

once again so many of you issed the point of this thread.

after 6pm EST and till around 11pm EST you are all in zones. there is no one to group with for xp. no one. especially on the evil side. outside of this time there is like no one on the mud on the evil side.

the few evils that are doing xp are anon so unless you know who to look for the average new player wont know what the fuck is going on.

look, either you want more players or you dont. today's online role playing games must cater to casual players or they will become extinct.

you guys keep saying 'make end game better, make it so you only get good xp in a zone' well wtf? how the fuck do you get to the zone if you cant get shit for xp to get to a zoneable level?

do not downgrade DS exp. do not downgrade any xp right now. we need more xp options than ds for the 40+ crowd, and a LOT more xp options for those below 40.

the mud is dying. there are hardly any players left. and you guys want to set it up so it's even less attractive to new players.

the biggest change around here needs to be the attitudes of self importance.
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Postby kiryan » Mon Mar 29, 2004 6:28 am

oh to clear up my stance, i certainly dont want exp to be any harder...

i just dont know what i think about off peak exp needing to be made better, does that really help anything since you still wont have enough people to make a group? It would basically be an upgrade for solo exp, but how effective of an upgrade would it be?

I was feeling extra helpful friday night and talked to the two lowest level players on a level 1 elementalist and a level 4 human warrior, both were brand spanking new to the game... i certainly dont believe the reports that the game is dying. But I do believe we could do more to nurture new players.
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
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Postby gimaki » Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:31 pm

Nobody wants exp to be any harder, just smarter. Lower the exp tables, drop "exp-only" zones exps drastically. Your overall rate of exping would be much higher, you'd learn more about the mud, and you could have fun before you are 'zonable'.

And you don't have to be 40 to zone, some of the most fun I had on the mud was the first time we did things like citadel at level 30s. That took far more skill, and was more fun, than blasting thru muspel or crypts nowdays. There are a ton of level 20-40 zones out there that get ignored.
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Postby Sesexe » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:00 am

Teyaha,

I'd just like to make it perfectly clear that at no point did I say to make the end game better. My intentions and suggestions about putting exp back into zones, meant just that, zones for all levels. They are there, in the game. Have always been. Just aren't done now because everyone gets handed eq, and now with the vast amount of exp grids, gets handed exp.

Challenge breeds long term interest.

Case in point. Diablo 2. Looked fanfuckingtastic. Played like a dream. Was easy as sin to play. Leveling was so easy. Equipment came easy. After making level 50something the first week, I played the game for a whopping total of 1 month before becoming utterly bored with it from beating it to death.

It was too easy. There was no challenge.

First time I played Sojourn, it was hard. Looked like hell, afterall was just a text game and I was on a raw telnet connection. Took me dam well near a year to get my first character to 50th. Still playing years later, not months or even days ago, years.
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Postby Teyaha » Sat Apr 03, 2004 12:58 am

well, i've never been 'handed' eq, and i been here as long or longer than most.

you want more xp in zones, that's great. but it takes what to go to some zones? a group.

i been logging on regularly, and there isnt enough evils on (or vis) to do jack with, and in primetime you are all zoning!!


this is an issue, but i have no idea how it's going to be fixed.
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Postby Viclor » Tue Apr 06, 2004 8:59 am

Teyaha wrote:well, i've never been 'handed' eq, and i been here as long or longer than most.

you want more xp in zones, that's great. but it takes what to go to some zones? a group.

i been logging on regularly, and there isnt enough evils on (or vis) to do jack with, and in primetime you are all zoning!!


this is an issue, but i have no idea how it's going to be fixed.


Heh, this is true.
thats when you bite it off, viclor. then tell him you shoulda paid 100 instead.

Nilan :)
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Postby Mitharx » Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:42 am

Important Update: All donations will be given to new players as long as they play evil class.

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