Goodrace Psionists

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Dalar
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Goodrace Psionists

Postby Dalar » Sun Jun 27, 2004 10:26 pm

Or however you spell them. Can we have them? Githzerai?
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Postby Asilin » Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:48 am

Gith come in two flavors, chaotic evil and chaotic neutral. Home is the astral plane though, might be interesting.

Thri-Kreen can be good, and are psionically active. Don't think they are a Forgotten Realms race though. Still, insect race would be interesting too.

Will look into a Forgotten Realms race that you can use.

Edit.
Only good aligned races that were natural adept at psionics were from Athas. Just turns out that in Forgotten Realms all the psionics went to evil races, unless the imms wanted to make creatures like Couatl playable (which I doubt will happen). In fact, of the races that you can play already, Yuan-Ti and Drow are the most likely to be psionic, in that order.
Last edited by Asilin on Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Alomlim » Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:12 am

Humans with MIIINNNDDDD POOOOWWWWEEERRRRSSSS!!!!!!
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Postby rarlaj » Wed Jul 28, 2004 2:05 am

in DnD Second edition (didnt buy 3rd edition)...

complete psionicist's handbook...

halflings, dwarves, and humans were allowed...

i think humans should be able to be psionicists at the least...
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Postby Iaiken Toransier » Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:03 pm

Asilin wrote:Gith come in two flavors, chaotic evil and chaotic neutral. Home is the astral plane though, might be interesting.

Thri-Kreen can be good, and are psionically active. Don't think they are a Forgotten Realms race though. Still, insect race would be interesting too.


It's a pity that Thri-Kreen never wound in in FR (I guess they were too cool), BUT you can have Githyanki(Evil) and Githzerai(Neutral). While not naitive to Faerun, they are resident to the astral plane and limbo respectively. The Githyanki make excellent wizards and warriors (sorry, lich queen hates clerics), while the githzerai make excellent monks and clerics. (OMG what a way to get monks back!!!!!!)

Though, soemone would have to recode the silver sword to not proc summon on gith warriors.

Just some thoughts on my FAVORITE two races.
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Postby Birile » Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:58 pm

Engh. No real reason to make a goodrace psionicist unless you're a freak who believes in equality between the two sides of the racewars or someone who doesn't want to have the drawback of "having to play an evilrace" in order to experience the psionicist class. Illithids have serious drawbacks as it is, let that dog have his bone.
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Postby Gormal » Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:04 pm

Except in this case the dog only has 2 legs, and no teeth, so the bone doesn't do him any good.
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Postby Birile » Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:51 pm

Gormal wrote:Except in this case the dog only has 2 legs, and no teeth, so the bone doesn't do him any good.


That's exactly my point. There's nothing worthwhile about being an illithid except for the fact they are psi's. Let them be unique.
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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Wed Jul 28, 2004 7:11 pm

Yeah, and next the evils are going to be asking for evilrace druids. Sheesh. Then what, rangers? oh wait, they already have those, and they
are BETTER.
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Postby Shevarash » Wed Jul 28, 2004 7:12 pm

I tend to agree with Birile here. Githzerai would be the only reasonable choice for goodraced psionicists should we ever decide to implement them, but at this point in time I don't th believe there's any clear reason why they're needed at all. Feel free to present some..
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Postby Sesexe » Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:56 pm

Well.. if humans could be psionics, then yeah.. you'd pretty much never have anymore illithids being them. The advantages of being a human psionicist over an illithid, would be all outof wack no doubt. And I don't want to see Gith-anything as a PC class.


On a semi-related note, since we are talking about illithids among other things...

I keep reading about Illithi-lichs (Alnoorns? Algores? Alnurns?). I wonder how unbalancing it would be to allow illithids to be necromancers and lichs? I understand that normal illithid soceity looks harshly upon illithids who use 'crude' magic, but hey, they are out there. And apparently becoming ever more popular. Maybe they could start in DK instead or something. They've adopted the ways of the drow and magic. Yeah yeah that's the ticket!

I just think it's a little sad that illithids can only be psionicists. Why not a mage class too, or even clerics? They have gods. They have specialty priests of those gods.. am I wrong?

Since I can't see the numbers behind the races, as the numbers I had from before were inaccurate, as Shev pointed out, so I can't really say how unbalancing illithid INT would be for mages.

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Postby Artmar » Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:37 pm

Well, their Int would certainly not be too unbalancing for clerics (and clerics - well, specialty priests, while rare, are present and accepted in illithid society). On the other hand, who would want to play an illithid cleric???
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Postby Disoputlip » Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:25 pm

Humans, if they could be psi would not have the drain ability illithids have because they don't have testicles or something. Thus is wouldn't be so funny to play, only meditating and listening to bard songs.
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Postby Jegzed » Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:32 pm

Disoputlip wrote:Humans, if they could be psi would not have the drain ability illithids have because they don't have testicles or something. Thus is wouldn't be so funny to play, only meditating and listening to bard songs.


Well, I'm a human... and I have a pair of testicles. About 50% of the human population does.

/Jegzed, some kind of human psi.
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Postby Iaiken Toransier » Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:50 pm

See, the funny thing about Mind Flayers is that pretty much every intelligent race (sorry ogres, no luck this time) hates them and will kill them on sight. This is especially true for duergar other subteranean races that dwell beyond the light of day. Why? Well, they enslaved tortured and mutilated the human ancestors of the gith and the dwarven ancestors of the duergar into what they are today; while the drow just hate anything that could be percieved as a threat to thier dominance of the underdark.

I don't see any reason why they were made the psionic player class instead of Yaun Ti or Githyanki in the first place. To the mind flayers, all other living beings exist as two things: breeding stock (humans) or food (everything with a brain); this does not lead to very good co-operation with other races.

If the only reasoning behind allowing mindflayers to be the only psions is so that they will be unique, there is a problem. Remember, if there were other races that could be psions, they wouldn't have the luxury of regaining PSP simply by eating brains. I mean, you COULD eat brains, but there'd be no PSP in it for ya.

I say, let illithids be mages and clerics too, but let other psoinic races be psions too and add one to the goodie side, they're not gonna be as good at it as mind flyers are because of lower power scores with lower psp and the inability to refresh them a la brain-binging so what is the big friggen deal? They'll just be a tad hardier is all.
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Postby Treladian » Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:20 pm

Iaiken Toransier wrote:It's a pity that Thri-Kreen never wound in in FR (I guess they were too cool), BUT you can have Githyanki(Evil) and Githzerai(Neutral). While not naitive to Faerun, they are resident to the astral plane and limbo respectively. The Githyanki make excellent wizards and warriors (sorry, lich queen hates clerics), while the githzerai make excellent monks and clerics. (OMG what a way to get monks back!!!!!!)


Actually, Thri-Kreen CAN be found in FR, they're just one of those races that you had to fish around for supplements in in 2nd edition. Specifically, they settled around the Shaar region, a desert area down south plus one other desert area I can't remember. However, I'm pretty sure the MUD doesn't yet extend to either area geographically. Like illithids and elves, kreen can be found on just about any of the 2nd edition FR worlds due to frequent space travel in Spelljammer.
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Postby Dalar » Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:48 am

Implement goodrace psi's b/c goodraces don't have that class. Paladin/Ranger vs Dire/Illithid? give me a break.
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Postby Sesexe » Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:48 am

Woops, forgot about the whole brain drain aspect. Yeah well.. if other races could be psion, I'd guess they'd all basically suck in comparison because of that, and lower max mana to boot cuz of illithid's leet innate int. So um yeah, let em. (Still wondering what the point would be. What do goodies want area lightness or something? Like hold a torch. Duh? ;)

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Postby icecillam » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:30 pm

Sesexe wrote:What do goodies want area lightness or something?


Oooh, thats an idea, human psion, torches/illumination don't work for them so they become "nightblind". The globe of darkness spell turns into globe of lightness so they can see in the night, cept tells to them from other people in the night would be unreplyable to. Psp's would be less than the Yuan-Ti range (probably similar to human bard). No draining.

Err, why are we discussing evil/good equivalance again? I like the idea of an actual reason to play the evil side with the diffrent mechanics. If you want crispy tanks, psi's, slotless race, dayblindness, crud attacking you at random places play an evil, else.. Now if we just had more players....
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Postby Birile » Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:14 pm

Dalar wrote:Implement goodrace psi's b/c goodraces don't have that class. Paladin/Ranger vs Dire/Illithid? give me a break.


Yeah, and while we're at it, we need to give barbarians the regeneration innate of trolls, humans need to be able to summon horde, gnomes need all of the yuan-ti innates and illithids need to be able to hamstring. Actually, ya know what? Fuck it, just make one race, probably humans, and allow them to be any class currently on the mud and call it a day. This mud has far too much difference between the two sides as it is.

Oh, and not having the psionicist class is far too limiting to the goodraces, I can't believe we've survived this long without them.

Yeah. Disregard my sarcasm if you do decide to make halfling psionicists, as halflings are the true rulers of Faerun. :twisted:

Thanks, k buh-bye.
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Postby Treladian » Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:12 pm

I seem to recall that one of the arguments for implementing dires the way they were was that some evils thought it was unfair that the sections of code related to mounted combat and ranged combat were completely inaccessible to evil players. You could make the same for goodies and psionic code really. That doesn't mean that you'd have to just replicate psions as is though. In every iteration of psionics in D&D, psions have had to specialize in a discipline that affected their choices of powers and skills. A new psionic class that was open to both evil and goodies might be interesting. The psychometabolism powers have always seemed to be the most interesting of the bunch to me, and I'd love to someday see a class that delved into them, or even better the psychic warrior class that was created in 3.0 and 3.5. ("Roll for initiative. Okay, you're first, what do you do?" "I manifest psionic lion's charge, charge the mage in the back, then maul him with my sword and the sharp teeth and four tentacles I've sprouted due to my powers.")

Back to the subject of psionic races, of the better known critters "native" to FR, in addition to illithids and yuan-ti, duergar are also naturally psionic. Duergar developed due to illithid experimentation on an enslaved dwarf clan trying to create an ideal, psionically endowed slave race that eventually rebelled (which seems to happen quite a bit to the squids actually. Both flavors of gith came about the same way). That's what that innate invisibility and other powers come from and that's also why they hate illithids about as much as githyanki and githzerai do. While the vast majority of illithids and yuan-ti just have their innate abilities and never develop anything beyond that, under current D&D rules duergar get some extra power points to play around with should they decide to take up a psionic class and are considered psionic for the purposes of various supernatural and magic/psionic abilities regardless. Finally, humans, being the adaptable creatures they are, don't really have issues developing as psions should they have the innate gift for it. Of course, EVERY race has psionic potential (remember wild talents anyone?) and since psionics is something born from innate mental powers, it's not something that requires as much formal study and scholarship as arcane magic. Humans just don't have any cultural barriers to exploring less-known avenues of powers.
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Postby Treladian » Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:30 pm

Addenum to my previous post after having the opportunity to look through some books I don't own.

Elves have a number of psions in the realms as well. A secret order of them is based in Everaska (ie, GC area). A faction in the order is particular interested in the acquiring and developing of psionic items.

A psionic college is based in Tethyr. Most people think it's just another arcane school, but in reality it both trains psions and gives them an organization that can provide adventuring opportunities.

Finally, there's another organization, mostly human, based in Skullport beneath Waterdeep. The group's speciality is producing psionic spies that sneak around, read minds, and make them confused if they need a quick getaway.

So there's definately a psionic presence among the surface races in the realms, it's just normally overshadowed by the almost ridiculous amount of magic that pervades the world.
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Postby Asilin » Fri Jul 30, 2004 4:33 am

I think the reason Illithid's were chosen as 'the' psionic race is because they are all powerful psionicists. Yuan-ti have a strong psionic trait too, but I don't think any pc race holds up next to the Illithid's in this aspect.

The only arguement for allowing good races to have psionicists would be balance in no-magic zones. I don't know how many places like that there are (stores/taverns/etc.) but magic-users can't cast, but flayers can blast in these places. If pk was ever implemented here's where you'd find a severe unbalancing of power. 'Course, psionic mobs in a no-magic zone would be rough for good races too. Don't know if there is such a place though.

The trick is finding a good race (non-evil, anyway) to fill this role. Gith are an example, but they also have a strong tradition in other classes as well, where the Illithid's are pretty limited on what class they can play.

By the way, there is currently a community of Githyanki in Gatchorof, the ruins on Torglor a sub kindom of Old Shanatar. Don't know about any number of Githzerai though.
Last edited by Asilin on Fri Jul 30, 2004 4:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby moritheil » Fri Jul 30, 2004 4:43 am

This has most definitely been discussed before, and with the discussion being opened up to multiple races,

http://www.torilmud.dyndns.org/phpBB2/v ... hp?t=11978

This thread might have something relevant to offer.

Psionic beholders anyone?
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Postby Iaiken Toransier » Fri Jul 30, 2004 1:02 pm

icecillam wrote:Err, why are we discussing evil/good equivalance again? I like the idea of an actual reason to play the evil side with the diffrent mechanics. If you want crispy tanks, psi's, slotless race, dayblindness, crud attacking you at random places play an evil, else.. Now if we just had more players....


You act like the goodies are so supperior that people NEED a reason to play an evilrace character. As it stands, the mud is pretty much two muds because the playerbase that is small in it's own right is split in half because of policy. The evil side on practically EVERY mud I have ever played was always smaller? Why? Because only guys like Turxx can relate to being a troll. :) Every other player and thier brother want's to be a hero and damn girls love druids and wizards.

I went and talked to Thoric (the forger of a mud I used to admin on back in 2000) about the pbase and he had some interesting statistics. (He was at the renaisance festival for the RoD reunion)

1. Male characters outnumbered female characters almost 2:1 (however some girls play male characters and vice versa so that was not taken into account)
2. Guys played a pretty even mix of classes, with warriors being most populous followed by mages then thievies then clerics.
3. Girls playing druids and mages combined outnumbered girls playing the other 10 classes combined. Go fig.
4. Pker's were outnumbered by "nice" (non-pk) people by almost 30:1.
5. Evils and outcasts while equal to the goodraces, were easily outnumbered by just over 2:1 when the neutral races (which might as well be concidered good races) are combined with the goods. (This is because if a neutral character groups with evils they become an outcast.)

Since it was conducted on a pbase of 2,131 registered ip's and 6,893 character files you can figure that the study is pretty accurate.
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Postby icecillam » Fri Jul 30, 2004 3:01 pm

Err, Question for Iaiken Toransier. Is your post supposed to state that there should be a reason or not for playing an evilrace over good. Just kinda confused about the first sentance in relation to the rest of the post. The rest of the post seems to imply that people could use incentives to play evils to balance things out more cuz in general people are going to play a good race char.
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Postby Iaiken Toransier » Fri Jul 30, 2004 6:28 pm

icecillam wrote:Err, Question for Iaiken Toransier. Is your post supposed to state that there should be a reason or not for playing an evilrace over good. Just kinda confused about the first sentance in relation to the rest of the post. The rest of the post seems to imply that people could use incentives to play evils to balance things out more cuz in general people are going to play a good race char.


Hellllll no! You would proabably remember me better as Silsaterur, Deurgar Elementalist. I had more fun RPing on the evil side, and they were a lot more daring when it came to doing zones (usually with skeleton crews).

I meant to say that people don't need a reasons or incentives to play evilrace characters. I rolled up Silsaterur just because I wanted to play a badass grey dwarf who almost wound up being rolled up as a Warrior.

The evil's have ubertroll tanks, smartest casters and snake wis clerics. Yet despite having the deck stacked in thier favor for power, they are still outnumbered by the goods. Now toss in that they are the only side that has psions and evils have a lot of things that the goods will never have.

I was just stating that most of the people on either side of the berlin wall of alignment (neutrals seem to have been given dual citizenship) chose that path because they wanted to be a hero or a baby eater (are baby brains a delicacy to ilithids?). While Silsaterur was never seen eating babies, he kicked a puppy once, and it was REALLY cute, so he's pretty evil.

So lastly I say, if goods get psions, it's not like the evilrace is going to be dealt a deathblow and all of the squid players are gonna jump ship. Most of the new psions are going to be goodies who probably never would have rolled up a squid because all of thier friends are goodies too.

Think about it, are squids really going to be threatened by a goodie psion with a crappier power score, 200ish fewer psp and no braineating and no mindblast? (remember, in d&d that power is squid only in 2ed and 3.5ed)
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Postby Birile » Fri Jul 30, 2004 7:47 pm

Iaiken Toransier wrote:
icecillam wrote:Think about it, are squids really going to be threatened by a goodie psion with a crappier power score, 200ish fewer psp and no braineating and no mindblast? (remember, in d&d that power is squid only in 2ed and 3.5ed)


Answer: Yes.

I rolled an illithid psi because I wanted to test out the abilities, not because I wanted to play an evil. I enjoyed a lot of my experience on the evil side as a result and wound up rolling a different evilrace character that is now in his mid-40s. I never woulda done it if I didn't want to test out a unique class. You think there won't be scads of people who would roll up a human psi if given the option? Um, hello, neutral race means the option of playing with your evilrace friends if you want and also zoning with goodies and getting good eq at the same time. Not to mention human con would probably (I don't know 100% for sure) give them many more hp's than an illithid psi, and that's a very important bonus as well. I most definitely would've rolled a human or other goodrace psi if given the chance, playing an illithid doesn't get me all hot and bothered as far as the race itself goes.

As for goodrace psi's having fewer psp... 1) we don't know if that would be the case at all. We assume it to be the case but that doesn't make it so. 2) Since when has having a lower stat, fewer hp's, etc. ever stopped someone from rolling a class in the race they preferred most? Um, not often enough to be relevant.

And who says humans wouldn't eat brains a la Hannibal Lecter? He proved a knife and fork were just as viable as the squid method. Besides, if ya know anything about psi's, you know they can meditate back their psp, eating isn't their only option. Besides, the Imms would probably throw in some other means by which non-illithid races could regain psp upon the death of their victims aside from eating if this were really an issue.

And since when has this MUD stuck tooth and nail to ANY edition of D&D 100% so that mindblast wouldn't be available to whatever goodrace psi that could possibly be added??

Let's be realistic here. Aside from all of the game mechanics involved, we all know that the evilrace side of things has been having issues with playerbase for, well, forever. Keep chipping away at their unique aspects, their benefits over the goodraces and you'll keep killing the evilraces. Whether you care or not about this plight, I'm pretty sure the Imms do and they're not gonna do anything that will keep killing them off and lowering their playerbase. It's not in the best interests of the MUD. Something like giving the goodraces a psionicist option would just give the goodraces even more playability that they just don't need.

Funny thing is, some of you that posted here about getting a goodrace psionicist option claim that you care about this MUD and don't want to see it die and have openly cursed others on this bbs (reference a particular person's remarks on the pwipe issue that Shar posted) for asking for something that would kill the MUD. Jesus Christ, get your heads on straight and realize your selfish, petty desire to have your cake and eat it, too (playing a goodie race and the psionicist class at the same time), would help bring about that same death you so high and mightily called others out for.
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Postby Ahxeriden Aethorcyn » Fri Jul 30, 2004 10:51 pm

Birile wrote:
Iaiken Toransier wrote:
icecillam wrote:Think about it, are squids really going to be threatened by a goodie psion with a crappier power score, 200ish fewer psp and no braineating and no mindblast? (remember, in d&d that power is squid only in 2ed and 3.5ed)


Answer: Yes.

I rolled an illithid psi because I wanted to test out the abilities, not because I wanted to play an evil. I enjoyed a lot of my experience on the evil side as a result and wound up rolling a different evilrace character that is now in his mid-40s. I never woulda done it if I didn't want to test out a unique class. You think there won't be scads of people who would roll up a human psi if given the option? Um, hello, neutral race means the option of playing with your evilrace friends if you want and also zoning with goodies and getting good eq at the same time. Not to mention human con would probably (I don't know 100% for sure) give them many more hp's than an illithid psi, and that's a very important bonus as well. I most definitely would've rolled a human or other goodrace psi if given the chance, playing an illithid doesn't get me all hot and bothered as far as the race itself goes.

As for goodrace psi's having fewer psp... 1) we don't know if that would be the case at all. We assume it to be the case but that doesn't make it so. 2) Since when has having a lower stat, fewer hp's, etc. ever stopped someone from rolling a class in the race they preferred most? Um, not often enough to be relevant.

And who says humans wouldn't eat brains a la Hannibal Lecter? He proved a knife and fork were just as viable as the squid method. Besides, if ya know anything about psi's, you know they can meditate back their psp, eating isn't their only option. Besides, the Imms would probably throw in some other means by which non-illithid races could regain psp upon the death of their victims aside from eating if this were really an issue.

And since when has this MUD stuck tooth and nail to ANY edition of D&D 100% so that mindblast wouldn't be available to whatever goodrace psi that could possibly be added??

Let's be realistic here. Aside from all of the game mechanics involved, we all know that the evilrace side of things has been having issues with playerbase for, well, forever. Keep chipping away at their unique aspects, their benefits over the goodraces and you'll keep killing the evilraces. Whether you care or not about this plight, I'm pretty sure the Imms do and they're not gonna do anything that will keep killing them off and lowering their playerbase. It's not in the best interests of the MUD. Something like giving the goodraces a psionicist option would just give the goodraces even more playability that they just don't need.

Funny thing is, some of you that posted here about getting a goodrace psionicist option claim that you care about this MUD and don't want to see it die and have openly cursed others on this bbs (reference a particular person's remarks on the pwipe issue that Shar posted) for asking for something that would kill the MUD. Jesus Christ, get your heads on straight and realize your selfish, petty desire to have your cake and eat it, too (playing a goodie race and the psionicist class at the same time), would help bring about that same death you so high and mightily called others out for.


Well I've personally seen Dartan refer newbie evils asking questions to "Go roll a goodie." So keeping evils unique and keeping their players alive is obviously none of his concern, we could all be goodies for that matter.

I could go on and on and rant some more but really whats the point?

There will be no good-race psionicists, I dont see it happening. And for this I'm glad, because I think the whole idea is quite delusional.
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Postby Dalar » Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:15 am

Sesexe wrote:Woops, forgot about the whole brain drain aspect. Yeah well.. if other races could be psion, I'd guess they'd all basically suck in comparison because of that, and lower max mana to boot cuz of illithid's leet innate int. So um yeah, let em. (Still wondering what the point would be. What do goodies want area lightness or something? Like hold a torch. Duh? ;)

Omfg Dalar! Just suck it up, and take the day blindness like a man! ;) I mean, if I can do it, certainly YOU can handle it, right? *wink* Or do I need to show you what a real Toril mudders l33t skillz are like? *flex* (yeah I know, as if)

*pet*


don't make me laugh, you guys have globe, the shadow spells etc. i've played evils and it's way easier than playing goodie. never respond to my posts because your idiocy is a waste of my time.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Dalar » Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:18 am

Birile wrote:
Dalar wrote:Implement goodrace psi's b/c goodraces don't have that class. Paladin/Ranger vs Dire/Illithid? give me a break.


Yeah, and while we're at it, we need to give barbarians the regeneration innate of trolls, humans need to be able to summon horde, gnomes need all of the yuan-ti innates and illithids need to be able to hamstring. Actually, ya know what? Fuck it, just make one race, probably humans, and allow them to be any class currently on the mud and call it a day. This mud has far too much difference between the two sides as it is.

Oh, and not having the psionicist class is far too limiting to the goodraces, I can't believe we've survived this long without them.

Yeah. Disregard my sarcasm if you do decide to make halfling psionicists, as halflings are the true rulers of Faerun. :twisted:

Thanks, k buh-bye.


I'm talking about access to a whole set of abilities, not one or two innates that dont' mean much in zone.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Gura » Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:02 pm

Dalar wrote:Implement goodrace psi's b/c goodraces don't have that class. Paladin/Ranger vs Dire/Illithid? give me a break.


wouldnt it be more like paladin/ranger/druid vs. anti/dire/psi?
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Postby Dalar » Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:13 pm

Gura wrote:
Dalar wrote:Implement goodrace psi's b/c goodraces don't have that class. Paladin/Ranger vs Dire/Illithid? give me a break.


wouldnt it be more like paladin/ranger/druid vs. anti/dire/psi?


well, both sides get anti. dire's archery is represented as rangers on the good side. druids can play both sides.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Gura » Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:53 pm

isnt moonwell flagged !evilrace altogether? dont think anyone would bring a druid to a zone for doom and sunray. when u need a squid 99% of the time for globe, ub, and wormhole. so druid/ranger vs. dire/psi...guess anti's would be even with paladins also since we can use them with no loss really.
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Postby Treladian » Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:57 pm

Gura wrote:isnt moonwell flagged !evilrace altogether? dont think anyone would bring a druid to a zone for doom and sunray. when u need a squid 99% of the time for globe, ub, and wormhole. so druid/ranger vs. dire/psi...guess anti's would be even with paladins also since we can use them with no loss really.


Uh, actually sunray was traditionally THE reason you brought a druid to the group. Area blind that lasted more than a few rounds is a sunray only thing. Since wells are prime material only, gate/fold is more versatile in exchange for being a bit more time consuming. It speeds getting into and out of things easier, but sunray really was the shining point for druids (not sure how much that applies anymore though. I'll let someone that still actually plays a druid to speak on that).
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Postby Sservis » Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:59 pm

good race only class(es)
paladin
bard
ranger
anti-paladin
druid

evil race only class(es)
psionicist
battlechanter
dire raider

Even though humans can swing both ways, only with anti-paladin do they do it with the full force of their class. One of the many race options doesn't constitute equal access to the class. Despite their differences bard=battlechanter and ranger=dire for the most part (so !human ranger/bard/druid is about = !human bat/dire]. However there is no pairing for paladins and psionicists. So I propose that the day evil races get access to paladins, good races get access to psionicists.
Last edited by Sservis on Mon Aug 02, 2004 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby moritheil » Mon Aug 02, 2004 11:06 pm

Treladian wrote:Uh, actually sunray was traditionally THE reason you brought a druid to the group. Area blind that lasted more than a few rounds is a sunray only thing. Since wells are prime material only, gate/fold is more versatile in exchange for being a bit more time consuming. It speeds getting into and out of things easier, but sunray really was the shining point for druids (not sure how much that applies anymore though. I'll let someone that still actually plays a druid to speak on that).


Despite being seriously nerfed, it is still handy. It's just not as useful in many situations now. Of course, it beats nothing!
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