Input wanted from all angles about Pwipe

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.

Is Pwiping good for the growth or advancement of a MUD (any MUD) *please note this is for information purposes ONLY and is not an annoucement of a Pwipe.*

Pwipe (in general)
12
11%
No pwipe (in general)
35
31%
Pwipe yes, but only on specific terms that would be discussed and well planned.
15
13%
Don't ever pwipe, regardless of the reason.
11
10%
If you Pwiped, I would be traumatized and quit for REAL and never come back, *ever*
2
2%
If you Pwiped, I would act like a drama queen for a while but then I'd be cool.
3
3%
If you Pwiped, I would mourn the loss of my character and eq but I would enjoy being on even ground with everyone.
12
11%
If you Pwiped, I would be more likeley to play more often.
7
6%
If you Pwiped, I'd be OK with it all around.
2
2%
If you Pwiped, I wouldn't enjoy it, but I would still play.
10
9%
Other reason that I will outline below.
4
4%
 
Total votes: 113
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Postby Cordan » Mon Aug 16, 2004 8:14 pm

I'd be for an eqwipe, but I'm worried about a pwipe. Not for myself, but for others who put so much time into their chars. I would be cool with one.

Is there some way that the admins can look at all the chars that one person has? Or maybe do a character trade in/eq wipe. You can log on with any of your characters, keep him, or trade him in for another class/race. Or maybe just restrict it to same race or similar class. I think it would kind of mix things up, and those people who don't want to level up again, but have played their chars to the point of being bored can come back in with something kind of fresh.

Of course, you'd probably want to reset skills to starting levels. Though you would need to provide full books or free scribing to mages since priests get their spells for free. Ton of mages with no money cast magic missile while priests are casting full heal!

And you'd also be able to keep your current char/level as well if you chose to do so.
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Postby Teyaha » Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:50 am

if this game had more options for people to solo most of the way to 50 thena pwipe wouldnt matter


but it doesnt. you'd lose a lot of players.
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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:30 pm

Zen wrote:Overall I think a pwipe is a positive thing. Not only does it put everyone on equal grounds for a brief moment, but it makes everyone actually need other players again. It would put some challenge back into the game in a big way, and that would be welcome.

The unfortunate side of that is there are a lot of us, myself included, who have grown up and moved on IRL. I can no longer afford the time and effort I spent to get where I am, so for me a pwipe would entail a certain loss. I think a lot of players fall into that category, but the glory of level 50 doesn't seem to mean quite as much to me as it once did. If there was a pwipe, it might well mean that I have reached the pinnacle of my mud experience in terms of levels, equipment and ability.

While I don't know how that would sit with me, personally, I think a pwipe would be a good thing for the mud in general. There will be a lot of people who can't get back to where they were, and everyone has to decide if that's the most important thing.

-Llandrien



So basically, since you'd have to quit, you want everyone else to suffer
some? Interesting idea. Yes some would have to choose what to do. I
would probbably be in the same boat as you, or near it. As it stands I
rarely zone, and am on more for RP than anything else. This is much
more difficult to do at level 1. So yes, i would effectively quit as well, but
that doesnt' make me wish a pwipe on everyone else =P.
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Postby Zen » Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:13 pm

Delmair Aamoren wrote:
Zen wrote:Overall I think a pwipe is a positive thing. Not only does it put everyone on equal grounds for a brief moment, but it makes everyone actually need other players again. It would put some challenge back into the game in a big way, and that would be welcome.

The unfortunate side of that is there are a lot of us, myself included, who have grown up and moved on IRL. I can no longer afford the time and effort I spent to get where I am, so for me a pwipe would entail a certain loss. I think a lot of players fall into that category, but the glory of level 50 doesn't seem to mean quite as much to me as it once did. If there was a pwipe, it might well mean that I have reached the pinnacle of my mud experience in terms of levels, equipment and ability.

While I don't know how that would sit with me, personally, I think a pwipe would be a good thing for the mud in general. There will be a lot of people who can't get back to where they were, and everyone has to decide if that's the most important thing.

-Llandrien



So basically, since you'd have to quit, you want everyone else to suffer
some? Interesting idea. Yes some would have to choose what to do. I
would probbably be in the same boat as you, or near it. As it stands I
rarely zone, and am on more for RP than anything else. This is much
more difficult to do at level 1. So yes, i would effectively quit as well, but
that doesnt' make me wish a pwipe on everyone else =P.


I'm saying that I feel my own personal achievement is irrelevant and I think that if a pwipe is benificial for the mud, the fun and the pbase then it should happen.

Apparently you can't say the same.
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Postby Artmar » Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:16 am

Zen wrote:I'm saying that I feel my own personal achievement is irrelevant and I think that if a pwipe is benificial for the mud, the fun and the pbase then it should happen.


That's a big IF there.
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Postby Yippie » Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:33 am

I can't remember my main login as it has been a long time since I have played. I have at least 3 level 50 chars. I believe each person should perhaps pick ONE char they could keep, deleting not only all other alts, but the kept char's eq. So you salvage just a single level 50 char, who's naked as fast as Bill Clinton in an intern's bathroom.

There is NO reason to have what is for some, literally years of playing time on this mud, to be deleted. Players like Lilithelle, Todrael, etc, have busted their butts and would have nothing whatsoever to show.

At worst, delete everybody BUT retain their flags for the quested spells. Redoing quest and waiting for rare quest items is gonna make me quit period. I have been back playing but just as of late. Most sojourners know that you need breaks from the mud or you have no rl. So, what I mean by having flags kept would be that you start again as level one but do not have to quest for the spells. All admin would have to do is a global demotion/eq nukage but don't nuke the quested spell flags.

Also, I'd really love to see a variety of builds of a single class. For example, you could have a healing type cleric, or one who crosses the line a bit and gets hybrid skills but lacks at some others. Basically, what I mean is how you can build your character in Diablo PC game. This way there aren't just clones of every type. All warrior/druid/etc in sojourn are the same damned thing. I remember in the early/mid 90's, Sojourn offered pts for skills you could hone whatever you wished, like 4 per level. Maybe allowing you to max stats (points allocated per level) or even nuking two points of wisdom for one point gained of strength...this you could do at your guildmaster. Maybe offer one-time quests, where a character would gain a Tome that raised any stat by some margin, perhaps crossing into the Max_(stat) and that new number be the default attribute for the character. So if you quest a Tomb of Wisdom, your base could go up from say, 97 to possibly a ranged number..like a 1d6. So, you might end up with 103 for a base and permenant wisdom score. You wouldn't be able to use another wisdom tome, but you could do str, etc tomes. The quests for them would be kind of fun. It's so hard to judge sojourn after playing PC games.

Sojourn takes so much time; you are bound to groups for hours sometimes when doing zones. Even if you were able to pay your guildmaster X amount of money and he would either summon your corpse so you could rent (like in zone tragedies) or whatever. The time commitment pushes me away...it sure has in the past. Offer moderate priced mana potions that automatically re-mem your spells..or at least act like the selee staff, that make you gain spells. When you die and have to wait, for ogres especially, up to 15 minutes. That's just insane. Bring Diablo up again: You get your corpse. BOOM, you're ready to go. What's wrong with that? At least in Diablo, you can quit and auto-retrieve your corpse. I think in that situation for sojourn, you could do so, but at the cost of losing say double the death xp loss.

The biggest problem with Ideas posted in this forum are you have old-school ppl that say 'Oh, that's the way it's always been'. There were post on here about how to use money. Use the money at guildmaster to raise stats. That had an overwhelming approval. Not one admin bothered replying. That's a pitiful insult. Ideas to use money, say mana potions or whatever...same: Ignored. This post covers a lot but since I don't post much I rammed it all into one wrapper.

Lastly, if there _were_ a pwipe, tag IP's so the player gets to retain their char's name. I'd hate to tell Lilithelle 'Hi!' and find out I'm talkin to Ashiwi =P but wait..then ashiwi would be lilithelle, so the artist formerly known as Lilithelle would be uh...Well, whoever she'd be, you know that admin would be snoopin her wondering what she's up to and which dragon she's targetting =o)
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Postby Ashod » Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:03 am

Why are you people even still posting about this.. it has been confirmed... no pwipe...
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:49 pm

Ashod wrote:Why are you people even still posting about this.. it has been confirmed... no pwipe...


Cause people like to talk.
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Postby Ashod » Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:11 am

Cause people like to talk.


Thanks Captain Obvious! :P
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:23 pm

Ashod wrote:
Cause people like to talk.


Thanks Captain Obvious! :P


No problem good citizen.
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Postby Wobb » Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:47 pm

Oooh.

Pwipe, like "balance", is a sensitive issue. Everyone has their own take on what would happen if you did this that or the other thing.

I can only surmise that you posted a poll because you wanted to get some idea of how the players feel about it, and given an overwhelming majority had supported it, you would start thinking about an actual pwipe.

An interesting poll would have been: "how many of you have played this long because Miax said there would never be a pwipe"....that might give us a better indication of who is left of the pbase.

I do feel sorry for the people who are still working on skills, RP, and long quest items if there were a pwipe, I know how hard it is to get this stuff, wobb just recently maxed his skills as a 50 warrior.

I don't want to say "I would love a pwipe", because I don't think a pwipe would fix the only thing I think is wrong with the game:

Players are at a stagnant point where they will only zone for certain items and the camraderie that once was is now lost. The evil pbase is for all intents and purposes DEFUNCT. I rolled a up a goodie, have a couple actually and rarely get zone invites. Even with some pretty decent EQ, E.G, bring me to the zone I don't even want to bid i just want to come, and I still don't get taken. The goodie pbase is overpopulated, there are enough people to do 3 zones at any given time but only people who "know each other well" will go out and zone.

A pwipe fixes some of these problems, but creates others. I don't know what the solution to the "toril pbase" problem is. Players need a vehicle to realign themselves with each other, but the attitude that is brought on by long years of play and hordes of eq, doesn't lend itself to camraderie.

I also want to add that a lot of unexepected things have happened that warrant some kind of "start over", a few of which:

1. The EQ changes...
2. The posting of quest info publicy on websites
3. The decline of players, especially evils.


I wish everyone luck in this endeavour. And this last line is for ragorn.

We have a myriad of problems.

Wobb
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Postby Khemed » Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:16 pm

As a new player I actually would like to see either a Pwipe or an EQwipe.

I've been playing for about a yaer now, though I did leave for about 7 months in the middle of that time, and it amazes me that few people will group or zone with low levels. Those that do are there to speed their latest alt through exp, complete with stacked sets of equipment no 10th level should reasonably have access to.

Yes, there are people who help out by donating eq to new players and yes there are people who help new players gain levels. This isn't the point. The game is not fun for most new players simply because most of the people have no interest in getting together and zoning for low level equipment.

For example I managed to scrape together a group of people to zone Cursed Cemetary. We completed it after a while and the end quest results no-one wanted. Why? Because everyone already has 2 or 4 or 6 in storage. I can only imagine how hard it may be when I want to try another zone that is not so close to Waterdeep.

Perhaps things will change in the future as I gain levels, but from what I've seen I doubt it. My suggestion would be to have some of the bigger global quests remade and eqwipe. This way people still have their levels/skills intact but the desire there for zoning/questing will be back and hopefully refresh the stagnation even I see in this mud.

Also knock some of the time off of exp. Yes, Alts will get powered up faster but if you want new people then its got to be at least a little fun exping up your first character.

As to those who will leave because they are to attached to their eq or have too little time to do it over again. I'm sorry, but if you want a social mud there is nothing to stop you from still logging on and chatting to those you know.

Khemed
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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:17 pm

Just to point out:


Wobb, your three reasons are crap.

1) eq changes are eq changes. Most are along the same lines as what
they were pre-changes. Just with stats a little more... sane in most cases.

2) The public posting of quests: Easy fix. change them. Yes this won't fix
some of the quest items already "leaked" into the game (for lack of a
better term). There are many other ways to combat the influx of quest
information without a "pwipe". And a "rust storm" as some would call it
would be a much more logical choice than a pwipe at that point. Overall
i say just change the quests.

3) The decline in evils probbably wouldn't be solved by a pwipe. I say
probbably because i have no hard facts there. But logically, it doesn't
seem like it would do much positive for the playerbase numbers.

This will be my last post in this forum, as i see all points that could have
been discussed, have been discussed, and shev has summed it up nicely.
There is no plan for a pwipe. Kthanksbye.
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Postby Wobb » Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:18 am

Delmair Aamoren wrote:Just to point out:


Wobb, your three reasons are crap.



Helpful.

I never said Pwipe, I agree an EQwipe would be a better solution, i said something needed to be done though.

But I don't even want an EQ wipe, i feel sorry for people who are still doing big quests if we eq-wiped.

The evils problem is a problem. Because you still have several people who play evils, but never enough on at the same time to zone. We are still talking about 30+ people who play this mud, while a minority, we may hold a large portion of the time-committed-to-sojourn majority.

I've been here since 1996, i'd like to think my thoughts mean something.

The topic of the post was "input wanted from all angles"...this is my angle. Thanks for saying my reasons are crap.
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Postby moritheil » Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:01 pm

Khemed wrote:As a new player I actually would like to see either a Pwipe or an EQwipe.

I've been playing for about a yaer now, though I did leave for about 7 months in the middle of that time, and it amazes me that few people will group or zone with low levels. Those that do are there to speed their latest alt through exp, complete with stacked sets of equipment no 10th level should reasonably have access to.

Yes, there are people who help out by donating eq to new players and yes there are people who help new players gain levels. This isn't the point. The game is not fun for most new players simply because most of the people have no interest in getting together and zoning for low level equipment.

For example I managed to scrape together a group of people to zone Cursed Cemetary. We completed it after a while and the end quest results no-one wanted. Why? Because everyone already has 2 or 4 or 6 in storage. I can only imagine how hard it may be when I want to try another zone that is not so close to Waterdeep.

Perhaps things will change in the future as I gain levels, but from what I've seen I doubt it. My suggestion would be to have some of the bigger global quests remade and eqwipe. This way people still have their levels/skills intact but the desire there for zoning/questing will be back and hopefully refresh the stagnation even I see in this mud.

Also knock some of the time off of exp. Yes, Alts will get powered up faster but if you want new people then its got to be at least a little fun exping up your first character.

As to those who will leave because they are to attached to their eq or have too little time to do it over again. I'm sorry, but if you want a social mud there is nothing to stop you from still logging on and chatting to those you know.

Khemed


Your easiest solution is to convince friends to play this game. Then you'll have interesting people to group with, and a tangible reason to keep playing.

In fact, from my point of view that appears to be best for everyone. The MUD gains newbies, the old players don't get screwed over, and the current lowbie players gain a lot of help (and competition!) Furthermore, while you cannot personally implement a pwipe, it probably is within your power to go and find a few friends to play.
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Postby Ihazim » Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:40 pm

put in something worth buying, then do a god-ran eq buyback program. If nobody watches the news, its sorta similar to a gun buy back program :p. The idea is to remove eq(guns) from the streets.
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Postby Selias » Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:23 am

:shock:

I'd be upset about a wipe, because I don't have the time to put into another character. Actually, i don't think i'd play anymore because I wouldn't enjoy the game anymore.

It's your game though, and you can do as you wish.
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Postby kiryan » Sun Sep 19, 2004 12:15 am

omg, i have 10x as much effort invested in my eq than my characters. delete all my characters but dont make me do those fuktarded assloading quests over again.

Really, do you need to spend 6 months scouring GC for shinjin a 2nd time?
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
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Postby moritheil » Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:40 am

kiryan wrote:omg, i have 10x as much effort invested in my eq than my characters. delete all my characters but dont make me do those fuktarded assloading quests over again.

Really, do you need to spend 6 months scouring GC for shinjin a 2nd time?


Heh, I'm wondering what Dartan's answer would be. Or any other seemingly tireless player devoted to ruthlessly hunting down the 'phat lewtz.' =)
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Postby vallis » Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:20 pm

Pwipes..

Level the playing field?

This isn't a player-killing MUD.. so what do we need to level the playing field for?
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as far as this long standing evil guy

Postby daggaz » Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:59 pm

For me, Pwipe would be pointless.
I could resolo my way to fifty in another wasted 20 days RL doing horribly pointless, repetitive, mind numbing xp. Your damn straigt I would quit.

As it is, theres never any evils on these days unless its 5am my time, so all I do is chat with friends, tease the gods, find and report bugs when possible, and generally wander around DK helping out anybody brave enough to roll an evil.

The eq thing I could really care less about tho, as nearly all my eq is mid range crap which gives the best in ac and hps. (-100 and 500+ hps, and you dont even have to do spob!) But Im sure it would really really peev a whole lot of other folks, who would then quit, further wrecking the pbase.

In my mind, what we need are many more eq sinks. Higher chances for poofing when fighting ultra-pimpy mobs, less than perfect poof-saves for eq (having one pff item from a low level mob dont do it in my head when I run into some giant fire hydra), mobs that actually EAT corpses (I love the terrasque) but which are perhaps not quite as hard to kill, and my own, personal, favorite: Mobs that LOOT pcorpses and use the equipment against you. Let the victors squabble over the results of that one. And while we are at it, more death trap rooms (albeit with decent warnings for people who actually read room descrips) and why not some banishment procs where you maybe get tossed onto random rooms in various planes (magma would be fun) or even out of existance period. Imp some of the nifty mobs from the DnD books so they actually do what they should do, namely hunt down and steal certain kinds of treasures. Ethereal Filchers would be neat on EP as well as prime. Dragons should definitely bother elitist horders. I seem to remember at one time that bags of devouring actually worked on this mud....and why not have the possibility of having holes in bags, or a chance to drop items if you have too much crap in your inventory while running around lots of rooms (if standing still long enough, give a room echo of 'You drop some blank.') For that matter, put a limit on innkeeper storage. Make him charge for larger stores, (great plat sink) and still KEEP a limit on it. Players who want to store more could use a GUILDHALL!!! (for gods sakes, lets have those please) and make it possible for thieves to break in. Put limits on to how much (volume and value) items lowbies can store in an inn. If there are good game possibilities, few people will bother skirting the rules with hordes of storage characters.
To balance all this out: Increase pop rates for common quest items (would make the game more fast and fun), consider easing the boringly long and tedious fights in most zones with mobs that have a zillion hps. As long as there are enough real sinks, that is.

My two cents. Oh, and I been here since the very beginning of beta, not that that makes my ideas any better or worse.
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Postby Kazaromoc » Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:14 pm

I wouldn’t really mind either way.

I would still play. I have met many interesting people and have formed many unique friendships. My guild members and I would work with each other to populate our inventories once again and continue to build upon our characters like we do today (granted with less class options at first). Perhaps it would even be a good thing. Lacking the incentive of a beefy character, maybe a pwipe will get more goodies to give the evil races a shot.

*chuckle* My biggest concern would be character names. Many of us have developed intricate and intertwined role play story lines which would suffer a simple name change! But I suppose that we can grab the same ones.

After posting my initial oppinion and reading through the oppinions of others, I'd like to say. Wobb, Amen.
-Kaz-

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