What do you think of the races?

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Sservis
Sojourner
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

What do you think of the races?

Postby Sservis » Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:53 pm

top posting this from another thread with a bit more data too

Code: Select all

race    , cap,str,dex,agi,war,cle/sha, inv,mem,pray,cha
barb    , 650,  6,  6, 70, 39,   21+4,    ,   ,  27,139
drow    , 304,  4,  7, 49, 35,   27+2,17+2, 20,  29,124
duergar , 865,  7,  6, 70, 39,   29+4,19+4, 29,  27,124
dwarf   , 650,  6,  6, 70, 39,   29+4,    ,   ,  27,124
gnome   , 216,  3,  7, 55, 36,   28+2,18+2, 23,  29,124
grey elf, 277,  4,  7, 49, 34,   27+1,17+1, 20,  27,155
halfelf , 347,  5,  6, 62, 36,   28+2,    ,   ,  27,150
race    , cap,str,dex,agi,war,cle/sha, inv,mem,pray,cha
halfling, 150,  3, 10, 62, 36,   28+2,18+2, 29,  31,145
human   , 384,  5,  6, 70, 36,   28+2,18+2, 27,  27,139
illithid, 138,  2,  7, 87,   ,       ,15+1,   ,    ,119?
ogre    ,1696, 10,  5, 92, 41,   22+5,    ,   ,  43,119?
orc     , 384,  5,  6, 70, 36,   20+2,    ,   ,  27,139
troll   , 700,  6,  6, 55, 40,   22+4,    ,   ,  36,119?
yuanti  , 347,  5,  6, 49, 36,   28+2,18+2, 23,  20,134?  or ?129?
race    , cap,str,dex,agi,war,cle/sha, inv,mem,pray


cap=carried wt that will cause immobilization with 100 str. [see post later in thread if you want the full table of all the load breakpoints] gear counts at half wt round down [round per item, then add]
str = naked damroll [with 100 str]
dex = naked hitroll [with 100 dex]
agi = naked ac [with 100 agi]. as far as I know notches go 130 120 113 104 100 92 87 80 70 62 55 49 45 39? (anyone have data/confirmation past 45, also the notches on the other side of 100 might skip some)
war = warrior hp [with 100 con, also ran, dir, ap, pal hp]
che/sha = cle/sha hp [with 100 con, druids same as cle, as are rog, add 8+0 to a shaman race to get the rog hp if needed]
inv = invoker hp [with 100 con, add 2+0 to get ele, ill, nec, lic hp, psi hp are listed under illithid in this column, not sure if psi hp are same as inv or better/worse since I can compare with any races]
mem = naked !thirsty !hungry 1st circle 1st level mem
pray = naked !thirsty !hungry 1st circle 1st level pray
cha = bard/bat psp with shopkeeper calibration for !bard !bat races [yuan are between dwarf and human/orc, but there are 2 notches in there I think, not sure which they land on as cha data is exactly halfway in price]

if anyone can suggest ways to compare power, luck, or karma I'd appreciate it. Also if the comparison can be extended to races without certain types of classes I'd appreciate it [could use search for int, what about wis? etc]

on hp. 17+2 hp [drow inv hp] means that starting with 100 con will give 19/17 hp [effectively the same as 17/17 but with 2 extra con notches]

more oh hp. non warriors get half the racial con notches rounded down. consider ogre shamans. ogres have 9 con notches. so they get to take advantage of 4 with 5 excess ones. these are spaced out so they get the first 4 and any more are superfluous. this means that maxcon has no effect for nonwarrior types. why they don't get every other notch [and so some maxcon effects] rather than the first half is beyond me. [b/c it's that way is a good enough reason now as changing the way it's done would have deleterious impacts]

innates with effects worth mentioning [at lvl 50]
-------------------------------------------
yuanti scaleskin = -35 ac, duration 11 ticks
yuanti vipermind = 6hit 5dam, duration 11 ticks
[both yuanti innates can be kept up perm at lvl 50 without draining psp's over the long run]
duergar strength = ???
drow/illithid lev = duration ???, recharges in time to refresh
drow dark = duration ???, recharge ???
duergar invis = ???
duergar enlarge = ???
troll regen = 200 hp in 3 minutes at age 13ish [age or level (tested at 40 vs experience data earlier) appears to effect], position, food, healing room does not affect
troll fire pwning = ???


edit: added cha data, realphabetized the race list [had orc/ogre backwards], changed the cha data to bard/bat mana

edit: added capacity, reformatted table
Last edited by Sservis on Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:16 am, edited 8 times in total.
Gura ASSOC:: 'man im such a prick'
Gura ASSOC:: 'but im so good at it'
Gura ASSOC:: 'especially when im right'

Shar responds to your petition with 'do what we do. just stop listning to gura :P'
mynazzaraxxsyn
Sojourner
Posts: 479
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:00 pm
Location: Ixarkon
Contact:

Postby mynazzaraxxsyn » Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:25 pm

Great info, possible to fix spacing to make it easier to read? Maybe make it a .jpg image so that the BBS doesn't eat spacing?
Lilithelle stops using a softly throbbing piece of flesh.
Gura group-says 'ill go solo the biznatch, just don't tell Stamm'
Kossuth responds to your petition with 'is it bad that the two words i think of when i see yer title are hottub and cthulhu? :('
Sservis
Sojourner
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

Postby Sservis » Sun Jul 18, 2004 3:52 am

edit: added more agi notches [there are some on the other side of 100 100 naked ac is not always the same as 100 naked ac]. also put in comments about nonwarrior con notches
Gura ASSOC:: 'man im such a prick'

Gura ASSOC:: 'but im so good at it'

Gura ASSOC:: 'especially when im right'



Shar responds to your petition with 'do what we do. just stop listning to gura :P'
Demuladon
Sojourner
Posts: 211
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 9:48 pm

Postby Demuladon » Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:04 am

This is great stuff.. good work Sserv!

ps. looks like duergar have halfling int.. oh the shame!
Nekelet
Sojourner
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:54 pm

Postby Nekelet » Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:45 am

Tried every way I could think of to repost the data into html <table> format to clean up the spacing... Nothing worked. sorry.
Lenefir
Sojourner
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2002 5:01 am
Contact:

Postby Lenefir » Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:34 pm

Ehh? No need to do it more difficult than necessary ;)

Code: Select all

race    ,str,dex,agi,war,cle/sha, inv ,mem,pray,cha
barb    ,  6,  6, 70, 39,   21+4,     ,   ,  27, 139
drow    ,  4,  7, 49, 35,   27+2, 17+2, 20,  29, 124
dwarf   ,  6,  6, 70, 39,   29+4,     ,   ,  27, 124
duergar ,  7,  6, 70, 39,   29+4, 19+4, 29,  27, 124
gnome   ,  3,  7, 55, 36,   28+2, 18+2, 23,  29, 124
grey elf,  4,  7, 49, 34,   27+1, 17+1, 20,  27, 155
halfelf ,  5,  6, 62, 36,   28+2,     ,   ,  27, 150
race    ,str,dex,agi,war,cle/sha, inv ,mem,pray,cha
halfling,  3, 10, 62, 36,   28+2, 18+2, 29,  31, 145
human   ,  5,  6, 70, 36,   28+2, 18+2, 27,  27, 139
illithid,  2,  7, 87,   ,       , 15+1,   ,    , 119?
ogre    , 10,  5, 92, 41,   22+5,     ,   ,  43, 119?
orc     ,  5,  6, 70, 36,   20+2,     ,   ,  27, 139
troll   ,  6,  6, 55, 40,   22+4,     ,   ,  36, 119?
yuanti  ,  5,  6, 49, 36,   28+2, 18+2, 23,  20, 134? or ?129?
race    ,str,dex,agi,war,cle/sha, inv ,mem,pray,cha
"Being God isn't easy. If you do too much, people get dependent on you; and if you do nothing, they lose hope. You have to use a light touch [...]. When you do things right, people won't be sure you have done anything at all"
--Futurama
Nekelet
Sojourner
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:54 pm

Postby Nekelet » Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:48 pm

Ehh? No need to do it more difficult than necessary ;)


Story of my life. :P
Sservis
Sojourner
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

Postby Sservis » Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:23 am

On capacity

worn items appear to have 1/2 wt
(round down, calc each item, then add)
25 coins = 1 wt

Code: Select all

race ,  WL,   U,  NS, NaP,   P,  VL,   L,   M, M10,   H,  VH,VH25,  EH, B40,   C,AwbP,   I
barb ,   0,   7,  13,  26,  46,  72, 130, 221, 254, 436, 527, 547, 585, 611, 631, 644, 650
drow ,   0,   4,   7,  13,  22,  34,  61, 104, 119, 204, 247, 256, 274, 286, 295, 301, 304
duerg,   0,   9,  18,  35,  61,  96, 173, 295, 338, 580, 701, 727, 779, 814, 840, 857, 865
dwarf,   0,   7,  13,  26,  46,  72, 130, 221, 254, 436, 527, 547, 585, 611, 631, 644, 650
gnome,   0,   3,   5,   9,  16,  24,  44,  74,  85, 145, 175, 182, 195, 204, 210, 214, 216
grey ,   0,   3,   6,  12,  20,  31,  56,  95, 109, 186, 225, 233, 250, 261, 269, 275, 277
halfe,   0,   4,   7,  14,  25,  39,  70, 118, 136, 233, 282, 292, 313, 327, 337, 344, 347
race ,  WL,   U,  NS, NaP,   P,  VL,   L,   M, M10,   H,  VH,VH25,  EH, B40,   C,AwbP,   I
halfl,   0,   2,   3,   6,  11,  17,  30,  51,  59, 101, 122, 127, 135, 141, 146, 149, 150
human,   0,   4,   8,  16,  27,  43,  77, 131, 149, 258, 312, 322, 346, 361, 373, 381, 384
illit,   0,   2,   3,   6,  10,  16,  28,  47,  54,  93, 112, 115, 125, 130, 134, 137, 138
ogre ,   0,  17,  34,  68, 119, 187, 340, 577, 662,1137,1374,1423,1527,1595,1646,1680,1696 
orc  ,   0,   4,   8,  16,  27,  43,  77, 131, 149, 258, 312, 322, 346, 361, 373, 381, 384
troll,   0,   7,  14,  28,  49,  77, 140, 238, 274, 469, 567, 589, 630, 658, 679, 693, 700
yuan ,   0,   4,   7,  14,  25,  39,  70, 118, 136, 233, 282, 292, 313, 327, 337, 344, 347
race ,  WL,   U,  NS, NaP,   P,  VL,   L,   M, M10,   H,  VH,VH25,  EH, B40,   C,AwbP,   I
%load,  0%,  1%,  2%,  4%,  7%, 11%, 20%, 34%, 39%, 67%, 81%, 84%, 90%, 94%, 97%, 99%,100%

  WL,What Load?
   U,Unburdened
  NS,No Sweat
 NaP,Not a problem
   P,Paltry
  VL,Very Light
   L,Light
   M,Moderate
 M10,Moderate     [AC adjust of +10 starts]
   H,Heavy
  VH,Very Heavy
VH25,Very Heavy  [AC adjust of +25 starts]
  EH,Extremely Heavy
 B40,Backbreaking [AC adjust of +40 starts]
   C,Crushing
AwbP,Atlas would be Proud
   I,Immobilizing


I also pulled some human data, and I reduced my yuan enc that has 100 str [lvl 49 skill max reduce]

Code: Select all

race ,  WL,   U,  NS, NaP,   P,  VL,   L,   M, M10,   H,  VH,VH25,  EH, B40,   C,AwbP,   I
yuan ,   0,   4,   7,  14,  25,  39,  70, 118, 136, 233, 282, 292, 313, 327, 337, 344, 347
yuanR,   0,   2,   4,   7,  12,  18,  32,  55,  63, 108, 130, 135, 144, 151, 156, 159, 160

race ,  WL,   U,  NS, NaP,   P,  VL,   L,   M, M10,   H,  VH,VH25,  EH, B40,   C,AwbP,   I
hu 92,   0,   4,   7,  13,  23,  36,  65, 111, 127, 218, 264, 274, 293, 306, 316, 322, 325
hu 96,   0,   4,   8,  15,  25,  39,  71, 121, 139, 238, 287, 298, 319, 333, 344, 351, 354
hu100,   0,   4,   8,  16,  27,  43,  77, 131, 149, 258, 312, 322, 346, 361, 373, 381, 384
hu104,   0,   5,   9,  17,  30,  46,  84, 142, 163, 279, 337, 350, 375, 392, 404, 412, 416
hu108,   0,   5,   9,  18,  32,  50,  90, 153, 175, 301, 363, 377, 404, 422, 435, 444, 448
hu112,   0,   5,  10,  20,  34,  54,  97, 164, 188, 323, 391, 405, 434, 454, 468, 478, 482
race ,  WL,   U,  NS, NaP,   P,  VL,   L,   M, M10,   H,  VH,VH25,  EH, B40,   C,AwbP,   I


based on the human data I was able to derive the following formula
1/26 * str^2 = immobile load [str measured in human units]

using this I was able to work backwards and estimate the internal racial factors. [anyone upstairs want to check my work?] Using this table you should be able to estimate your carry capacity. take your racial factor times your strength, round the result down to the nearest integer, and plug it into the equation listed above. I'm really not sure why halflings appear to be 62.5 [and are an exception to rounding down, but that's where they land]

Code: Select all

str factors
barb , 130
drow ,  89
duerg, 150
dwarf, 130
gnome,  75
grey ,  85
halfe,  95
halfl,  62.5
human, 100
illit,  60
ogre , 210
orc  , 100
troll, 135
yuan ,  95


edit: changed the formula. I had over specialized based on the human data set.
Gura ASSOC:: 'man im such a prick'

Gura ASSOC:: 'but im so good at it'

Gura ASSOC:: 'especially when im right'



Shar responds to your petition with 'do what we do. just stop listning to gura :P'
Thilindel
Sojourner
Posts: 3173
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:09 pm
Location: Indianapolis

Postby Thilindel » Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:23 pm

Anybody have relative #'s for dexterity? Since ogre's str is 210 human str, what's halfling's dex, etc? I wasn't seeing progress trying to notch halfling dex, yet somehow it was easy notching drow/gnome, etc. Makes no sense since notches should be closer for a halfling since each point has more value.
Kallinar
Sojourner
Posts: 564
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2001 6:01 am
Location: C'ville Va.
Contact:

Postby Kallinar » Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:13 pm

oh....my....god
Kallinar goes MOO
Image
Confucious say: He who walk around with hand in pocket feel kockie all day.
ssar
Sojourner
Posts: 1446
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Contact:

Postby ssar » Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:38 am

geeeeez.. I need to lie down after reading much of that.

Return to “T2 Gameplay Discussion Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests