exp woes

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Sarell
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exp woes

Postby Sarell » Sun Aug 08, 2004 9:18 am

All the people who are tired of having to return to DS with your 100+ Pday char due to failed resses, please post concisely your ideas for fixing this problem. Please keep this forum for concise ideas on how to repair exp not arguments about if exp is hard/easy it is etc.

1. Increase trophy so it actually does something and reduce experience tables. This would mean you would get more exp from zoning rather than sitting in DS for extended periods.

2. Remove all exp from things other than kills. And lower tables a bit. This would mean everyone would get even exp. No riduculous rogue leveling and impossible chanter leveling. The tables are at different rates of exp in order to balance the difficulty and power of classes, no need to complicate it with spell/damage/etc exp aswell.

3. Revert to old tables, when they were changed to make exp harder from 46+ and easier up to zonable lvl (46), it had drasdtuic consequences for in terms of losing more exp on each death especially on failed resses.

4. Change res exp loss to 10%, 5% after res. Failed resses are ridiculous atm.
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Re: exp woes

Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Sun Aug 08, 2004 3:27 pm

Sarell wrote:All the people who are tired of having to return to DS with your 100+ Pday char due to failed resses, please post concisely your ideas for fixing this problem. Please keep this forum for concise ideas on how to repair exp not arguments about if exp is hard/easy it is etc.

1. Increase trophy so it actually does something and reduce experience tables. This would mean you would get more exp from zoning rather than sitting in DS for extended periods.

2. Remove all exp from things other than kills. And lower tables a bit. This would mean everyone would get even exp. No riduculous rogue leveling and impossible chanter leveling. The tables are at different rates of exp in order to balance the difficulty and power of classes, no need to complicate it with spell/damage/etc exp aswell.

3. Revert to old tables, when they were changed to make exp harder from 46+ and easier up to zonable lvl (46), it had drasdtuic consequences for in terms of losing more exp on each death especially on failed resses.

4. Change res exp loss to 10%, 5% after res. Failed resses are ridiculous atm.


I agree with alot of that, especially the chanter idea. Why should one of the most needed classes in the game have the harest exp tables? Its not like they are uber powerful or anything, not without a group..

But as always, I think this is just another thing that might/probably won't get added to the immortals ever increasing list.
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Postby Tasan » Sun Aug 08, 2004 9:26 pm

Some would beg to differ about power vs. difficulty of achieving that power.

Time sinks are retarded period. We should get exp for every minute we're here... something has to be rewarded for dealing with Larem.

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Postby Deshana » Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:06 am

Hmm should I stick my nose in or what?
Why not.

At this time, I'm sitting at a 25% res failure rate on my main character. I have been told there is an error in my file, but no what that error is. However this error was orginally noted over a year ago. At the time I was told someone would look into and repair the problem, I had failed 13 in a row without a success. That was a rather long time ago.

Since attaining level 49-50 I have failed 41 times. You are welcome to caculate the amont lost to that. I have 200+pdays, and cannot, for the life of me, maintain an xp buffer.

I have exact con stats for all of these times, with +luck and karma into the mix before anyone bleats low con.

Before that, I failed once.

Now, as an enchanter xp is even harder, but I do tend to agree that having to return again and again to xp is rediculous, and somewhat pointless in my case.

There has to be a balance.
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Re: exp woes

Postby Silsaterur » Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:24 pm

Nurpy Fuzzyfeet wrote:I agree with alot of that, especially the chanter idea. Why should one of the most needed classes in the game have the harest exp tables? Its not like they are uber powerful or anything, not without a group..


Wanna bet?

Pretty much any class (excluding rangers, bards and dires) can be put to rediculously effective use in soloing. Namely, but not neccessarily in order of effectiveness, Druids, Shamans, Elementalists, Necro, and of course Enchanters...

Ask around for stories of Lillithelle soloing entire zones, and of a certain necro's past exploits exploring the depths of the underdark. Not to meantion an old married shaman couple that could rock most zones in 1's or 2's...

Casters are much more powerful than the rest of the classes and so it is that they get the higher exp tables... But since they can ususally solo tougher mobs than most people, it's not that big a deal. I can take sils up and solo DS for 3 hours and get about 70% of a level... now if only I had the time to do so.
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Postby Sarell » Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:49 pm

I can't be THAT unlucky on just one character. I just failed another res on my shaman. 104 con. Barbarian. His best is 6 fails in a row. What the heck is going on there? I get him out to play, find a cleric on, get a non-res, and any interest in taking him zoning is immediately drained after the 3 hours I spent boring xping last night is gone. Was deshana's res problem ever solved?
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Postby daggaz » Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:40 pm

Daggaz was my first real caster in years, and I solo'ed him up myself entirely in the underdark until I hit 45th or 46th. It was a long process, but very rewarding and one of the reasons I got so good with my class. At 46th, i was basically forced by the xp tables to sit in Smoke and kill mephits, either solo, or with a voker. And it took days and days and days of solid smoke annhilation (im talking 18 hour sessions) to get those last few levels there. That just totally destroyed the whole gaming experience, as well as my rollplaying abilities (I LIVED in the UD, dammit!).


That said, I agree with the main ideas presented, that being:

1. Amp trophy and zone xp a lot more, heavily reduce xp for 'xp zones'.

I've posted extensively into how counter-intuitive and counter-productive xp zones are. They reward you for being repetitive at best (leading to botting) and for being stupid at worst (who learns anything in there compared to in a zone, where is the initiative to explore the mud?).

2. Go back to older xp tables, but definitely keep the handicaps for the heavy solo classes. Make rogues a bit harder to level, they are a very versatile and useful class, it never made sense to me that they should be SO easy to level (sorry Pava). As for the bonus xp, all that stuff came in after damage xp was added, as bandaids to a problem. Definitely remove it all, especially the damage xp. People will always find ways to powerlevel. (and the funny thing is, after the gods 'fixed' the problem via damage xp, they went and imped entire xp-zones like DS which just made plevelling that much easier)

3. Go back to the old xp gradient, the whole 1-46 thing is very counterproductive. Ultimately, you get n00bish people hitting zone levels in no time, without really learning their class, in part cuz they power thru in D- 'retardedly overpowered XP' -S the whole time, while anybody who is an active zoner gets hammered because yeah, most people die in zones fairly commonly. And when they go to make that xp up, heh, DS is full of n00bs powerlevelling. Vicious circles...

I'll also say, making the game more challenging, at least for me, makes it more rewarding. In the old days it was forever just to hit 20th and you revelled in your extra attack or your new spell circle. Now its just another 35 levels or 3.57 days till 50.

4. Twink ress to reflect mud reality, reducing xp loss if changes like these aren't imped, (especially changes effecting high end xp) and maybe leaving it as is otherwise. (Challenge is good, death should be punishing, but it needs to be balanced.)

and finally,

its ubelievable that a hardcore player suffers beknownst to the gods for that long without anybody doing something about it. How about, for instance, creating a new character same class/race, setting its stats, levelling it up and setting its hp, and finally allowing him to move all the eq over before the old char is just deleted and the name change goes into effect. A big fat buffer and perhaps a magic item are in order as compensation.
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Postby Yarash » Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:16 pm

5. An incentive for inviting other people into exp groups. Currently exp leaders are rewarded for having as few members as possible, which boosts the exp per kill per member.

This incentive could be done any number of ways. For example, the leader could get small cut of everyone else's exp. Or the leader could always get full exp regardless of how many members there are. I'm sure that a creative formula could be made to make it fair and worthwhile to invite extra people into groups.
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Postby Auril » Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:16 pm

I don't recall in which thread Shevarash stated that he was arranging things such that the experience grind wouldn't *be* a grind. I don't personally know his plans, either. I think, though, that I'd bookmark this thread and check it out after we see what happens in 2.0. Probably at least some of the issues will be resolved then, and drawing the coders away to add band-aid tweaks now will slow down the work that's underway. Let's see what comes up. :)
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Postby daggaz » Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:52 pm

Thanks for the input, Auril. And yeah, definitely I forgot point 5, yarash.

Anyhow, I'm still waiting for the changes cuz you know I will be playing again as soon as they are in.
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Postby Sarell » Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:06 am

No offence to Auril or Shev, but I think most would be happy with a quick bandaid. Like, change the line that says how much exp you lose or get back on res. This thread was started in August 2004. About 5 years after I started posting 'Upgrade Trophy Downgrade Tables', not to mention the atrocity that was pushing the tables to be thicker at higher levels.
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Postby Teshidee » Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:35 pm

i personally feel that it is ok that rogues get a lot more exp than any of my chanters. even rogues worth their trade seem to die a lot faster and more often than them. it wouldn't seem fair to me to make them suffer the exact same fate.

personally, i would like it if 1-46 would go by a lot faster. those levels aren't to learn your class really, anyways. exping is not zoning. learning by doing is all you can expect. not sure about the rest of you, but i know some players who i think are really nice folks - but i always wince when i see them as a coreclass for a zone - and some i don't even like to see in any zonegroup.

remove exp penalties, give the socalled exp-grid mobs exp worth their while, and every other mob, too. leave restrictions as they are for 46-50 if you want. that way it won't waste hours and days of our lifes to figure out if we a) want to play a certain class, or b) give up entirely on them for zones.

and geesh, remove ress failure altogether. i'm melting corpses nicely as it is. (and i am so very glad i never had pat's or des' troubles! :() worst timesink ever. i love to zone, exping today sucks. again, i don't have time to mud from work - or even the ability. we don't score the playernumbers we used to even a year ago - where's the sense in trying to make it mindnumbingly boring?
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Postby Lilira » Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:00 pm

Teshidee wrote:personally, i would like it if 1-46 would go by a lot faster. those levels aren't to learn your class really, anyways. exping is not zoning.


Problem is Tesh.. there are actually ZONES out there for under 50. These are where people should be learning their class, as well as exping. Take the Experience out of experience points and you just have points. You learn by experiencing zones, but if you stay on Ship, DS or CMs, you experience nothing but the grind, which everyone seems to agree is snoozeville. THEN you get bitten in the behind cus someone asks you to join a group with a class you have thus far only xp'd and have no clue how to act. There aren't a lot of players these days, so people new to the class are getting less coaching.. or the coaching they are receiving are from arrogant jerks who turn people off the class.

When was the last time someone did Sunken Slave City for fun? Or Undead Farm and not necessarily need the eq for a quest. Vault? Ashgorrak? When was the last time a group did the UD driders zone? (I still want one of those pretty veils.) I'm not talking twinking, I'm talking actually doing them zone-style, even if it isn't with a group of 15.

I say turn up the zone xp. If nothing else, that would encourage people to get out and zone instead of mindless grinding. But it would also leave that option open for people who can only pay about an 1/8th attention to the screen. It would also allow people who zone but die lots to recoup their losses a lot faster. I think zone xp should also go even split in a group, because everyone contributes, or they wouldn't be there.

But then maybe that's what will happen with 2.0. That's just it. No-one knows yet.
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Postby Teshidee » Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:33 pm

but people don't do those zones, so they learn nothing. sad as this is, that is a 99% fact :(
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Postby Kenon » Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:40 pm

You guys are absolutely right about the zone exp thing, it seems like here
only a few select zones are actually worth exp. I'm willing to move around
doing tons of different zones exploration style but when I whack one of the
mobs out there I see it's worth like no exp compared to the already selected
grind exp zones. That sucks, heh, I think that mobs everywhere should be
classed or whatever so that they're worth decent exp, so that wanderers
and explorers can gain as much exp as grinders.

Having mobs everywhere worth decent exp + a trophy system that makes
them worth less exp if you keep slaying the same thing over and over again
(but can be cleared off trophy by killing enough other mobs) is a decent
design when it comes to exp. But Shevarash has already said he's not gonna
do it like that and that toril 2.0 is gonna have new good solutions so we'll just
have to wait and see, hehe
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Postby amolol » Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:49 pm

heares an idea
if its not a home town it doesnt repop automaticly

then make it repop randomly throughout the boot.

now there are some lower places for xp lets say anything 1-40that should repop

but DS CM ship and smoke should repop,. that is how you get people oput there. then make it so that all the zones that dont pop if your in it. dont pop if your not either

leaving the zones that pop on you while fighting EX crypts

now what you have here is forced exploration and forced learning.

yea you can do jot musp izans spob all the high end zones that you do now but those of us that dont log un just to do them will be forced to go do other things for our xp. so prety much this would kill the mud or fix the problem
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Postby Corth » Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:39 pm

Teshidee wrote:but people don't do those zones, so they learn nothing. sad as this is, that is a 99% fact :(


They don't do the lower level zones because there is no incentive. Sure, there is some crappy EQ. But there is so much surplus eq in the game after all these years that you can find better junk lying arouing the street.

One thing that our current crop of gods has never really seemed to take to heart is the idea that in a mud like this one, you need to give people incentives to do the right thing. If the best exp is sitting around in a contrived exp zone killing the same easy crap over and over again, thats exactly what will get done. If there is better exp in a trickier mid level zone, then people will go there. More risk should equal more reward.. for both equipment AND exp.
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Postby Gormal » Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:21 am

Corth wrote:They don't do the lower level zones because there is no incentive. Sure, there is some crappy EQ. But there is so much surplus eq in the game after all these years that you can find better junk lying arouing the street.

One thing that our current crop of gods has never really seemed to take to heart is the idea that in a mud like this one, you need to give people incentives to do the right thing. If the best exp is sitting around in a contrived exp zone killing the same easy crap over and over again, thats exactly what will get done. If there is better exp in a trickier mid level zone, then people will go there. More risk should equal more reward.. for both equipment AND exp.


Quoted to preserve the truth against deletion.
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Postby Corth » Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:30 am

They'll just delete your message too. But thanks anyway.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Postby Tanji Smanji » Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:14 am

Gormal wrote:
Corth wrote:They don't do the lower level zones because there is no incentive. Sure, there is some crappy EQ. But there is so much surplus eq in the game after all these years that you can find better junk lying arouing the street.

One thing that our current crop of gods has never really seemed to take to heart is the idea that in a mud like this one, you need to give people incentives to do the right thing. If the best exp is sitting around in a contrived exp zone killing the same easy crap over and over again, thats exactly what will get done. If there is better exp in a trickier mid level zone, then people will go there. More risk should equal more reward.. for both equipment AND exp.


Quoted to preserve the truth against deletion.


Quoted again although I'm not safe either.
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Postby Sarell » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:30 am

I like Teshidee's idea too. Just remove res failure 'in the mean time'. Solid, fast, practical ... get people zoning more than exping. Corth is right too and my first post provides a well planted solution.
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Postby teflor the ranger » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:46 am

Tanji Smanji wrote:
Gormal wrote:
Corth wrote:They don't do the lower level zones because there is no incentive. Sure, there is some crappy EQ. But there is so much surplus eq in the game after all these years that you can find better junk lying arouing the street.

One thing that our current crop of gods has never really seemed to take to heart is the idea that in a mud like this one, you need to give people incentives to do the right thing. If the best exp is sitting around in a contrived exp zone killing the same easy crap over and over again, thats exactly what will get done. If there is better exp in a trickier mid level zone, then people will go there. More risk should equal more reward.. for both equipment AND exp.


Quoted to preserve the truth against deletion.


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Postby Latreg » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:08 pm

the problem with removing the grouping penalty is a level 1 person could be in group, not assist or cast and get full exp. If a mob is 10 time higher level (only used for example) or more you should get very little or no exp. How can you really gain an exp from being part of a kill that you have no business being part of. If you practice or try to learn something you work up to it. You wouldn't one day say oh hhmm I'm going to fight Mike Tyson. You would tend to work up to it by training with people more on your level or a little higher. that's where you get the real experience. It's a complicated issue to be sure.

How about some quests that you can only do 1x that gives you like 10% or something, maybe several quests in different level locked areas/rooms. If you can't get in on an exp group you could work on an exp quest.

I have seen several of what appear to be actual new people around. But if you can't solo or get with someone to 2 man exp you are pretty much s.o.l. I'm sure the problems are obvious and have been well known for a very long time. Exp bandaide fix? 2 thumbs up, go for it.
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:28 pm

People will always do the easiest and best exp they can, the trick is to make the outer zones and off the beaten path zones worth it. I remember when Kang was the place to be, then docks/gates, then elites, tower, ect ect. There used to be a freakin line of people waiting for spots in gates/tower groups.

My suggestion is simple, make getting 4-6 people in a group worth it and make trekking to some out of the way area for 2-3 hours worth it. Random zone-wide items and such are fine but make the experience worth the trip. It's always bothered me that so much of the game is empty. Been playin EQ again a bit lately and they've introduced a set of zones every few months with a substantial zone exp modifier on them, as well as having some pretty nice zone-wide drops that can happen. It's really revitalized a lot of under-used zones and pushed people out of the normal handful that they used to sit in.

Make the normally done zones give decent exp as well, you may not gain a level doing them but you may offset a death and a ress or failure just by zoning. The fixes are there, just gotta give it a try and see how it goes.
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Postby Kenon » Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:35 pm

To provoke exploration you can boost certain zones to being worth 2x exp
and announce it publicly. One rl week ice crag and havenport might be hot
exp spots, some other week temple of moon and the undead grid before
paradox tower, and so on.


It seems a bit weird to me that the ultimate exp here is to follow a high
lvl person who spam slays or morts mobs for you, that's so wrong...

Instead it should be designed so that 3-5 man exp groups was formed and
went out and did zones for exp. Cuz of low pbase it needs to be doable in
1-3 man groups also though.


To prevent powerleveling you can add exp caps so that you won't get exp
while grouped with anyone higher than 10 levels above you. To prevent
high levels from morting mobs for lowbies to level faster you can make
it so that any mob recently morted by anyone above 10 levels higher than
you won't be exp if you take killing blow.



The ULTIMATE exp design is to have tasks or quests to be the main exp
source instead of spam slaying exp grid mobs.... I'm hoping this is what
the staff here has in mind for toril 2.0...
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Postby loshaenar » Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:24 pm

having said that,

we did used to get exp here for quests.... a significant body of people bitched about the removal of this feature when we noticed kerns / erlans etc no longer gave exp on completing the various stages of the quest.. Can't quite remember what the justification for removing this was, some crap about people getting quest tokens and then questing them with low level chars to plevel them or something....

well i suppose it is a "fantasy" world after all.
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Postby loshaenar » Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:25 pm

having said that,

we did used to get exp here for quests.... a significant body of people bitched about the removal of this feature when we noticed kerns / erlans etc no longer gave exp on completing the various stages of the quest.. Can't quite remember what the justification for removing this was, some crap about people getting quest tokens and then questing them with low level chars to plevel them or something....

well i suppose it is a "fantasy" world after all.
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Postby loshaenar » Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:25 pm

having said that,

we did used to get exp here for quests.... a significant body of people bitched about the removal of this feature when we noticed kerns / erlans etc no longer gave exp on completing the various stages of the quest.. Can't quite remember what the justification for removing this was, some crap about people getting quest tokens and then questing them with low level chars to plevel them or something....

well i suppose it is a "fantasy" world after all.
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Postby Gormal » Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:54 pm

Too bad you don't get exp for posting the same thing multiple times:(
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Postby Ragorn » Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:18 pm

Step One: Remove damage/stone/heal experience, increase kill experience, and split the kill experience among all group members evenly.

Step Two: For each member of the group after the first, increase the total kill experience by 20%. Killing a mob solo would give 100% of the experience. Killing in a group of five would give 200% split five ways, or 40% each. Killing in a group of eight would give 260% split eight ways, or 32.5% each. In this way, adding more members to the group doesn't drastically reduce the experience each member receives.

Step Three: Implement a zone experience modifier. A level 53 warrior mob in Jotunheim gives 130% normal experience. A level 53 warrior mob on the ship gives 90% normal experience. A level 53 elite guard in Waterdeep gives 60% normal experience. Zone experience modifier is proportional to the difficulty of the zone and/or its distance from towns.

Step Four: Eliminate easy powerleveling. When a mob is engaged in combat, record the level of every character in the group who deals damage to it. When the mob dies, any character more than seven levels below the HIGHEST character to hit the mob gets no experience. When the mob heals back to FULL HIT POINTS, clear the list. This way, a 50th level Cleric can't nuke a mob to awful so his 15th level friend can take the kill experience.

(This is the reason we have damage experience in the first place... to prevent a level 15 from getting massive exp by simply dishing the killing blow to an incapacitated mob)

Step Five: Wipe hands on pants.
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
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Postby Ifin » Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:33 am

Great many threads w/good overdue xp suggestions.

Objectively, how many non-alt 41+ people have we seen really grind it out to zoning status? And yes surprisingly, a couple new people do pop in now and then, maybe see them reach lvl 20's, but then they just disappear. When talked, yeah they say it's a well built game, great descriptions, environment etc. But how hard it is to get a group for xp (ie people +-5 or so levels prob don't need them or want to group w/them) and how tedious it is to repeat the same stuff over and over, esp. lower level spell mems if you *are* trying to solo, etc. etc.

That in itself shows that we'll never replace those who leave w/new blood *even when we have an opportunity to do so*, b/c something is broken, and the most likely culprit is xp process, the group xp, wanting of efficient xp, etc. etc.

And a lot of these suggestions seem to be just adjusting modifiers. Granted one way or the other too much might hurt than help, but a lot of these suggestions come from old old players who have a lot of firsthand experience with the process.

Or I don't know if imms do this, but how about if time to time as morts when you hear a problem to try to "live" the problem, ie roll a newbie (just try a mage or a priest), and actively try to play the game. See how much time, when you want to be at keys and doing something, you can't b/c not enough people to xp or you're not needed. Try to solo w/spells, and see how ridiculously long it takes to kill one mob at lvl 21 or such. "New eyes"

But yeah as for "band-aid" and "quick fix", this thread was bumped from 2004.
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Postby Drogga » Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:38 pm

agreed with sarell.... failed ress is ridiculous atm. plz get rid of it and yeah please reduce the exp loss after each ress if possible too.... thanks
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Postby Ambar » Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:10 pm

Drogga wrote:agreed with sarell.... failed ress is ridiculous atm. plz get rid of it and yeah please reduce the exp loss after each ress if possible too.... thanks


on a successful ress you only lose 4-5%, there has to be SOME penalty ...
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Postby Mertak » Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:45 pm

Ambar wrote:on a successful ress you only lose 4-5%, there has to be SOME penalty ...


Agreed. Removing ress failure might be a good idea, reducing the XP lost on death instead might be a good idea, but both is unreasonable.
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Postby Sarell » Sun Dec 03, 2006 7:54 am

Problem is at the moment the penalty for death is you have to be bored while you pres so later you can find a cleric, then the mud goes down and you lose your corpse and cant find an admin to respond for 3 weeks, and then you have to be bored while you hit DS to recover it. No penalty would be better than that.
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Postby Tasan » Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:34 pm

Ragorn wrote:When the mob dies, any character more than seven levels below the HIGHEST character to hit the mob gets no experience.


So what... you get no experience for going to a zone as a level 43 or lower? Yeah totally makes sense.
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Postby Lilira » Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:08 pm

Actually.. that's very MMORPG. I know in EvCrk2 if someone is several levels(I believe it it is 10 levels) below the highest char, then they get no xp, not even xp/credit for completing a quest.
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You group-say 'my chars will carry the component on them if I can.'
Inama group-says 'hopefully they'll have some sort of volume discounts on ress items for people like you'
You group-say 'oh? Ya think? *giggle*'
Inama group-says 'they could at least implement frequent dier miles'

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Postby Ragorn » Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:43 pm

Tasan wrote:
Ragorn wrote:When the mob dies, any character more than seven levels below the HIGHEST character to hit the mob gets no experience.


So what... you get no experience for going to a zone as a level 43 or lower? Yeah totally makes sense.


So out of the five paragraphs I posted, you choose the arbitrary number I selected to bitch about?

Yeah, totally makes sense.
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
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Postby Tasan » Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:21 pm

Ragorn wrote:
Tasan wrote:
Ragorn wrote:When the mob dies, any character more than seven levels below the HIGHEST character to hit the mob gets no experience.


So what... you get no experience for going to a zone as a level 43 or lower? Yeah totally makes sense.


So out of the five paragraphs I posted, you choose the arbitrary number I selected to bitch about?

Yeah, totally makes sense.


It didn't seem very arbitrary. You could have picked a more realistic number like 12-15 if you wanted to really be that way.
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Dlur group-says 'I have a dead horse that I'm dragging down the shaft with my 4 corpses. Anyone want to help me beat it?'



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Postby Ragorn » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:26 am

Tasan wrote:It didn't seem very arbitrary. You could have picked a more realistic number like 12-15 if you wanted to really be that way.

So do you have any comments that matter, or do you want to pick nits about a number I pulled out of my ass to illustrate my point?
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
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Postby Tasan » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:36 am

Ragorn wrote:Step One: Remove damage/stone/heal experience, increase kill experience, and split the kill experience among all group members evenly.


I don't get why having to actually get a kill is going to make exp woes go away. Why completely limit the way you receive experience? I thought we wanted more interactive and less hack N' slash. I hope there are ways OTHER than just straight killing to gain experience in 2.0.

Ragorn wrote:Step Two: For each member of the group after the first, increase the total kill experience by 20%. Killing a mob solo would give 100% of the experience. Killing in a group of five would give 200% split five ways, or 40% each. Killing in a group of eight would give 260% split eight ways, or 32.5% each. In this way, adding more members to the group doesn't drastically reduce the experience each member receives.


I disagree with this method of thinking, but until we see how fighting works in 2.0 it's worthless to discuss.

Ragorn wrote:Step Three: Implement a zone experience modifier. A level 53 warrior mob in Jotunheim gives 130% normal experience. A level 53 warrior mob on the ship gives 90% normal experience. A level 53 elite guard in Waterdeep gives 60% normal experience. Zone experience modifier is proportional to the difficulty of the zone and/or its distance from towns.


I believe this argument started circa '97.
Danahg tells you 'yeah, luckily i kept most of it in my mouth and nasal membranes, ugh'



Dlur group-says 'I have a dead horse that I'm dragging down the shaft with my 4 corpses. Anyone want to help me beat it?'



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