Auctioning.

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
vallis
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Auctioning.

Postby vallis » Sat Oct 23, 2004 2:22 pm

My last few experiences with the auction system have been kind of lame.

When people write scripts to purchase equipment the last second before its auction is up, thats just weak.

Would it be possible to maybe have a delay for.. another.. 2 minutes or so, when someone bids against you at the last second?

This way us script-deficient people have a chance of winning auctions without having to sit and stare at the screen with aliases set up.

Thank you, 'n stuff.
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Postby Thordin » Sat Oct 23, 2004 2:44 pm

There have been some long threads on the boards about this in the past. Seems everyone is about split 50/50 on how things should work. The "add some time" idea has been batted around quite a bit - seems it always turns out that things work ok now so no change is made.

Personally I have stopped trying to low-ball or snipe auctions and just bid what I am willing to pay. It costs considerably more - but I get what I want!

The auction has lots of little problems like the one you mention, like crap eq listed for months on end. (yes filter the sort) I hate the bid increment thing also - why let it be over 100p? I've seen a couple with huge increments that screw up the auction.

Over all though it works pretty damn well and is a nice addition imho. A job well done.

T
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Postby Disoputlip » Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:53 pm

The reason I see it as wrong is that the other looser is the seller
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Postby Yarash » Sun Oct 24, 2004 2:51 am

Thordin wrote: I hate the bid increment thing also - why let it be over 100p?


First, an increment proportional to the item's market value will generally improve the final price. Likewise, low increments lead to lower final prices.

Second, this is really the only protection sellers have against sniping. The increment amount is what the sniper will pay over the previous value. If it's a hot item and the increment amount is 1p, the seller doesn't make out as well. If the increment amount is 500 or 1k, at least he gets that money.

A system like ebay would be ideal but will never happen I guess.

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Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:40 am

Bid higher and those with scripts will either hit their limits, or stop using those scripts 'cause you can really mess w/em.
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Postby Dalar » Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:43 am

Holy crap! A RANGER OWNED SOMEONE.

Anyways, yea, pay more than what his bot is triggered to do.
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:24 pm

That's what I usually do is bid exorbitantly over my last bid until they stop bidding. They hit their max price and I get what I want.
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Postby Shevarash » Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:12 pm

Would an ebay-like system with proxy bidding be preferable to everyone? I assume everyone is familiar with how that works, but the basic idea is that you bid your maximum, and the system automatically handles the incrementing of the bid amount.

Thoughts?
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Postby Gura » Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:47 pm

would beat the bots thats for sure. definitely sounds like a good idea.
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Postby moritheil » Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:43 am

Shevarash wrote:Would an ebay-like system with proxy bidding be preferable to everyone? I assume everyone is familiar with how that works, but the basic idea is that you bid your maximum, and the system automatically handles the incrementing of the bid amount.

Thoughts?


What I'm really annoyed by is the fact that the platinum cap on sales seems arbitrarily low. I mean, if I sell a Surtur or something rare beyond that, I wouldn't want to sell it for a max of 100k. The auction system would be more useful if the cap were higher.
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Postby Yarash » Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:10 am

Shevarash wrote:Would an ebay-like system with proxy bidding be preferable to everyone? I assume everyone is familiar with how that works, but the basic idea is that you bid your maximum, and the system automatically handles the incrementing of the bid amount.

Thoughts?


YES! This would be the perfect setup, should someone be willing to implement it.

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Postby fotex » Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:17 pm

Sounds like it could get extra spammy with enough proxies in play, and small bid increments. :P
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Postby Sservis » Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:00 am

Shevarash wrote:Would an ebay-like system with proxy bidding be preferable to everyone? I assume everyone is familiar with how that works, but the basic idea is that you bid your maximum, and the system automatically handles the incrementing of the bid amount.

Thoughts?


Ebay does extensions too. I'd prefer to see sellor configured extensions [how long they want it to extend each time, etc]. I alos know I'd prefer to see you working on that vaulted rebalancing of melee now that you're back, Shev.
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Postby Yarash » Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:50 am

fotex wrote:Sounds like it could get extra spammy with enough proxies in play, and small bid increments. :P


Only if coded poorly. The coders here would do a good job.

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Postby kragt » Tue Nov 02, 2004 6:28 am

Would be nice if it also included an option to instant sale items.
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Postby Cordan » Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:58 pm

What's so hard, or bad, with adding 60 seconds to the auction time everytime a bid is made by someone within the last 60 seconds. Make it 30 seconds or something.

This will allow two people who really want the item to go back and forth a good bit.

Paying what you WOULD spend and putting a dead set time limit totally kills the point of an auction in the first place, imho.

Isn't the extra little bit of time the EXACT reason for "Going once, Going twice......"? To give anyone who might make a last minute decision to spring the extra 100 and take the item?

Either way, it makes selling stuff on auction much more appetizing.
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Postby ssar » Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:25 am

Cordan wrote:What's so hard, or bad, with adding 60 seconds to the auction time everytime a bid is made by someone within the last 60 seconds. Make it 30 seconds or something.

This will allow two people who really want the item to go back and forth a good bit.

Paying what you WOULD spend and putting a dead set time limit totally kills the point of an auction in the first place, imho.

Isn't the extra little bit of time the EXACT reason for "Going once, Going twice......"? To give anyone who might make a last minute decision to spring the extra 100 and take the item?

Either way, it makes selling stuff on auction much more appetizing.



In general, I like the "sniping" feature of the torilMUD auction system - and most auctions are all about the flurry of activity and excitement of the final stages.
However, folks that write triggers to auto-bid very accurately within seconds of the auction ending is just plain fu**ed, and ruins it.

I agree with Cordan.
I dunno if implementing ebay-style auction code, testing, editing etc is not kinda wasting our coders' time when they could be, say ironing out tiamat or working on other core issues.
A simple (?) 1 game day extension each time a bid within 2days is made might be a good idea.

The auctioneer says 'The auction on item 435 has been extened for one day, due to the "last-minute" bidding activity.'
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Postby Yarash » Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:45 am

ssar wrote:I dunno if implementing ebay-style auction code, testing, editing etc is not kinda wasting our coders' time when they could be, say ironing out tiamat or working on other core issues.


Coders will do what they feel like doing. However, I tend to think that the code that is used the most should get the most attention. The auction system gets an enormous amount of use, so I don't think time spent on it is wasted.

- Mike
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Postby Garsam » Sun Feb 27, 2005 2:44 am

Dear coders,

Please! fix the auction!
No need to make anything complicated - auction works fine in general, just one simple rule:
iwhen someone bid on an item and the time left for this item is less then one mud month, then auction system should increment term length up to one month. That will solve two problems: 1) last seconds snippers 2) time differece for non-US players.

Thats really hurts, its very often i can pay much more for some nice items, but i just don't know how much more should i bid. Sometimes I bid big enough sum and long time noone dare to overbid it, but next morning when i wake up i suddenly realise that item is already sold to another person. But most of time it happens like this:

---
aucbid 210 3100;yesYour bank account has been credited 2900 platinum because you were outbid on an auction item.
Auction: Ssixar bid 3000 platinum on item 210 an adamantite band set with a flawless ruby
You are about to bid 3100 platinum on item 210 an adamantite band set with a flawless ruby. Please confirm you want to do so. (Y/N): [No]
Auction: an adamantite band set with a flawless ruby sold to Ssixar for 3000 platinum!
An auctioneer says 'The item you are trying to bid on is not an OPEN auction item.'
---

As you can see from this log i was the top bidder till last second and was ready to overbid, but Ssixar managed to bid in such way, so action command was accepted but there was no time for "yes" ...

Is that an auction or a 'last second' lotterry?
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Postby teflor the ranger » Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:20 am

Simple suggestion. 60 second delay after a bid (mo more bids on same item)
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Postby Raspor » Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:12 am

Free anti snipe code for anyone that wants it! :wink:


remain = auction_time_remaining(item->obj_id, item->term, item->add_hours);
if(remain < 23)
auction_add_time(item, 23 - remain);

// if we get here, bidder paid in full for it




// add add hours to item, should be 1-23 hours inclusive
void auction_add_time(AuctionItem *item, int add)
{
if(!item)
{
wizlog(51, "Auction Item is null in auction_add_time()!");
return;
}

item->add_hours += add;
}
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Postby fotex » Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:30 am

Just use my snippet it works much better! :wink:


remain = auction_time_remaining(item->obj_id, item->term, item->add_hours);
if(remain < 23)
auction_add_time(item, 23 - remain);

// if we get here, bidder paid in full for it




// add add hours to item, should be 1-23 hours inclusive
void auction_add_time(AuctionItem *item, int add)
{
if(!item)
{
wizlog(51, "Auction Item is null in auction_add_time()!");
return;
}

item->add_hours += add;
fotex->plat++;
}
rer
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Postby rer » Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:31 pm

I like the thought to introduce an eBay like auction system.

I also like the thoughts to add a Toril day to any item bid on in the last day of the auction.

Thanks for looking into this Shev!
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Postby selerial » Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:32 pm

Having had people last-second me on items as well, I'd have to say I'm in favor of either of the proposed solutions (ebay style bidding or a simple time extention).

As it stands right now, the auction system is roughly 98% advertising and 2% bidding (at the last game hour). I won't generally bid an item until there's about a month left, and then that's often just to demonstrate that I have interest in the item.. in essence, I'm justifying any last-second sniping/counter-sniping that I might have to engage in to win the item.

As far as which method to employ... I think that the fairness of the ebay method combined with the inherent possibility of mud instability has me leaning against the time extention as a strict by-itself fix. Giving the seller an option to set an extention is an interesting idea, but if the mud crashes 2 minutes before your item is up and/or the item is going to time out while you're unable to be at a computer, it's a small comfort that you *would* have had 60 seconds to counter-bid someone.

So, after all that, I'd support the ebay "bid your max and let people push the real value to it" style auction.

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