Broken Rogue Things

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Ashiwi
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Broken Rogue Things

Postby Ashiwi » Fri Nov 05, 2004 3:11 pm

There's a couple of rogue issues which seem kind of broken to me, which I'll post as I think of them, and hopefully other rogues will post those that they think are wrong, somehow.

The first one I thought of was this tracking while hidden thing... as we track we automatically open up doors that are in our path. Shouldn't that automatically unhide us? It seems incredibly silly to allow us to open any door in our way without giving somebody in the room a chance of seeing us.
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Postby Ihazim » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:05 am

why couldn't this just be a feature of hiding while tracking?
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Postby oteb » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:08 pm

Maybe a minor thing but it looks really odd. Garrot death proc works on mobs like golems and undead. Dunno if it is right or wrong but its utterly silly that when you pop their head you sea a fountain of aretial blood.
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Postby Kifle » Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:49 pm

Ihazim wrote:why couldn't this just be a feature of hiding while tracking?


Because it is WAY too powerful for a rogue to hide while tracking. Also, it is a huge stretch on reality. When you track, you are usually looking for sometimes very small evidence of travel...in specific, one persons signs of travel. This will most likely cause you to move out of a hiding spot. As far as opening doors. You unhide when you open doors while not tracking, so, it would only make sense to unhide while not tracking.
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Postby daalgar » Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:00 pm

Another problem with tracking while hidden is you don't have to sneak while doing it. So hide never gets broken from a failed sneak check.
Ashiwi
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Postby Ashiwi » Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:30 pm

Yeah, I can kind of see tracking from hiding, but not without a sneak check.
Gormal tells you 'im a dwarven onion'
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'

Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'

Haley: Filthy lucre? I wash that lucre every day until it SHINES!
Ashiwi
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:48 pm

Hey thanks.
Gormal tells you 'im a dwarven onion'
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'

Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'

Haley: Filthy lucre? I wash that lucre every day until it SHINES!
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Postby sok » Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:57 pm

i'm confused. if you are sneak/hiding and you start to track, does it take you out of hide or are you still hiding?
Ashiwi
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:02 pm

The way it is now, if you're hiding and you attempt to track something, you will come out of hiding. If you're tracking and hide while tracking, you will continue to track while hidden.

And I've never failed a hide while tracking, not even when I don't bother sneaking first. If I move once I get to my target without sneaking first, my ass is usually toast, because I come out of hiding most of the time, depending on the circumstances, since I'm not sneaking.
Gormal tells you 'im a dwarven onion'
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'

Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'

Haley: Filthy lucre? I wash that lucre every day until it SHINES!
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Postby Gura » Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:54 pm

hide and sneak are both broken. downgrade them mightily.
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Assassinate doesnt break invis?

Postby bimble » Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:32 pm

A freshly cast invis b4 a assassination attempt:

assassinate cook
You stop trying to hide.
With practiced ease and lightning reflexes, you plunge a serrated assassination knife into the galley cook's back. Shocked, he slumps to the ground and shudders, before breathing no more.
You receive your share of experience.
get all corpse
l in corpse
The galley cook is dead! R.I.P.
Your blood freezes as you hear the rattling death cry of the galley cook.

< 405h/444H 95v/95V >
< P: std > You get a few coins from corpse of the galley cook.
There were: 4 platinum coins, 17 gold coins, 2 silver coins, 5 copper coins.
put 4 p sack
put 17 g sack
drop 2 s
drop 5 c

< 406h/444H 95v/95V >
< P: std > Corpse of the galley cook (here) :
Nothing.

< 406h/444H 95v/95V >
< P: std > Ok.
You put some coins into a tattered silken sack.

< 406h/444H 95v/95V >
< P: std > Ok.
You put some coins into a tattered silken sack.

< 406h/444H 95v/95V >
< P: std > You drop 2 silver coins.

< 407h/444H 95v/95V >
< P: std > You drop 5 copper coins.

< 407h/444H 95v/95V >
< P: std > gsay assassinated cook!
-> : 'assassinated cook!'

< 407h/444H 95v/95V >
< P: std > sco

Score information for Bimble

Level: 45 Race: Halfling Class: Rogue
Hit points: 407(444) Moves: 95(95)
Experience Progress: 21 %
Coins carried: 8 platinum 45 gold 51 silver 2 copper
Coins in bags: 12 platinum 85 gold 0 silver 0 copper
Coins in bank: 2 platinum 2 gold 3 silver 3 copper
Prestige: 4890
Citizen of: Beluir
Outcast from: Leuthilspar
Playing time: 8 days / 6 hours/ 40 minutes
Title:
Group Name: Bimble and Company
Group Leader: Bimble
Status: Standing.
Detecting: Invisible Magic Heat
Protected from: Evil Acid
Enchantments: Farsee Fly Invisibility

Active Spells:
--------------
invisibility
detect invisibility
detect magic
fly
Ashiwi
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Postby Ashiwi » Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:13 pm

I don't consider that so broken. If you succeed in your assassination you should remain somewhat invisible... people aren't supposed to see you, after all. I think remaining hidden would be way too twinky, because hidden is much more safe than invisible in this game.
Gormal tells you 'im a dwarven onion'
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'

Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'

Haley: Filthy lucre? I wash that lucre every day until it SHINES!
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Postby Lahgen » Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:18 am

Gura wrote:hide and sneak are both broken. downgrade them mightily.


And then they become just as useless as invis.

They don't need to be downgraded. The mobs just need to be smarter and more observant so that it isn't as infallible in zones.
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Postby Sesexe » Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:44 pm

Lahgen wrote:
Gura wrote:hide and sneak are both broken. downgrade them mightily.


And then they become just as useless as invis.

They don't need to be downgraded. The mobs just need to be smarter and more observant so that it isn't as infallible in zones.


Do you mean like back when mobs would search out players? How bad was it back then? I mean like.. did every type of mob search you out? Or was it just certain kinds due to what their flag was, or level?

Just curious. Thnx! :)
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Postby Ashiwi » Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:14 pm

They not only searched you out, you could run several rooms away and hide, and they could track you down, search you out, and commence to kicking your ass before hide lag was done. Survivability rates for rogues plummeted like Arilin's popularity rating after a beans and franks eating contest.
Gormal tells you 'im a dwarven onion'
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'

Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'

Haley: Filthy lucre? I wash that lucre every day until it SHINES!
Sesexe
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Postby Sesexe » Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:25 pm

Oof! I can see why it was changed. That sounds very harsh. :o

So it was pointless before, and now it's flawless? Hrmm.. wonder if there is a middle ground? Maybe a mob could only search a hidden char once, and then it gets flagged as having tried? Maybe the same thing with track? If it re-engages you in combat, the flag(s) is (are) removed?

EDIT: Maybe mobs could only search so often in the same room? Definitely think there should be some kind of check made against the rogues hide ability to search them out, instead of just a simple room search check. The idea being, ok he's about to check again.. I better move and make him make a track check instead. Keep the rogues moving around (sneaking safely) instead of just parking it in one room.

That way, even if a rogue is successful, the mob can still have a chance to find you, but only one. If he finds ya, you can run away and maybe start it all over again?
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:02 am

Ashiwi wrote:They not only searched you out, you could run several rooms away and hide, and they could track you down, search you out, and commence to kicking your ass before hide lag was done. Survivability rates for rogues plummeted like Arilin's popularity rating after a beans and franks eating contest.


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Postby Lenefir » Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:27 pm

Lahgen wrote:
Gura wrote:hide and sneak are both broken. downgrade them mightily.

And then they become just as useless as invis.

They don't need to be downgraded. The mobs just need to be smarter and more observant so that it isn't as infallible in zones.

But if you make sneakhide fail much more often, isn't that the same as downgrading it? Wouldn't that in some cases make it more useless than invis, since not every mob now see invis, but they see the "hidden" rogue? And wouldn't groups be spammed much more with "Someone group-says 'hidden?'"?

Anyway, some mobs now DO proc tail-sweep, trip, search whatever if a hidden rogue is in the room...
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Postby Lahgen » Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:34 pm

I mean find a balance, between being infallible, and being useless.
Kesena OOC: 'i wish my daddy bought me power tools'

Dorgh group-says 'damn, even with Cofen helping Mori, they STILL can't kill someone

Hekanut says 'I know level doesn't matter much, but most won't take seriously if a level 2 claims to be the best thing before, during, and after sliced bread.'



Rather than seeing "subpar race/class," see "challenge."
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Postby Birile » Thu Dec 09, 2004 4:21 pm

Lahgen wrote:I mean find a balance, between being infallible, and being useless.


Yeah, downgrade rogue sneak/hide to bard sneak/hide... :twisted:

JUST KIDDING
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Postby sok » Sat Dec 11, 2004 1:55 am

maybe make lvl 55+ mob be able to to search out mob they aggro if it's in same room. if it's hiding in ano room then too bad; however, if it wanders in, it can search.

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