Necromancer Vs Lich

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Llaaldara
Sojourner
Posts: 998
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Dobluth Kyor

Necromancer Vs Lich

Postby Llaaldara » Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:21 pm

As was recently requested of me by a player, I started out to make an informative post about the differences between these two classes, as an aid for players interested in said topics. After doing some research into both classes by talking with other players of the appropriate class(s) and experience, I learned some things that I wasn’t aware of. My original intent was to put this in New Player Help forum, but because of the things I’ve learned, I feel the staff would benefit from what I have to say as well. Hence why I post it here.

That being said, what reasons are there to be a Necromancer or a Lich? What are the key differences between the two. Why choose one over the other? Just comparing these two classes against each other is the topic of the conversation.

These comparisons are also made between Necro’s without Annihilate Undead, and Lich’s without Siphon Undead, as it appears no one has either of these spells currently, and therefore I can’t comment on their nature or benefits to their respective classes.


Lich Advantages compared to Necromancer:
1) Heal Self ability with Heal Undead spell.
2) Increased damage capabilities because of Lich touch, Ice Tomb, Rot.
3) 4 More levels worth of HPs, (+20hps)
4) 4 more levels worth of spells
5) Innate Water Breath
6) Innate Protection from Gas (walk smoke with zero protections)
7) Perfect Night and Day vision
8) Reduced chance of receiving successful Lich Touch Proc from lich mobs
9) Death Pact – a desirable class unique ability for zoning, resulting in invites
10) Ice Tomb – has the additional bonus of allowing a Lich to plevel himself or another via the spells proc which can reduce a mob to a 1-shot kill for anyone of sufficient level.
11) Life Drain – ability to deal damage, heal self, and receive stackable vit-like vamp ability.
12) Lichs do not age, but now are set to most desirable racial age setting (Thanks Eli), therefore no need to tweak your age.

Lich Disadvantages compared to Necromancer:
1) Unable to receive minor healing from blessed/cursed water/food.
2) Unable to enter a large number of hometowns (as human unable to enter WD, but as evilrace can still enter DK – these being the main hometowns of the respective sides).
3) No major global transportation abilities. Lich is limited to teleport and dimension door, or running with levitate (no fly spell).
4) No currently working PFU (but has been addressed, and is supposed to be in next copyover – Thanks again Eli).

Necromancer Advantages compared to Lich:
1) Major global transportation ability with Life Walk quest spell.
2) Soul Walk – a group unique class ability for zoning, yet because of the spells current casting limitations, results in very little use in zones.
3) Vampiric Curse – unique class ability, excels when used in Exp groups, yet because of the spells current casting limitations, results in very little use in zones.
4) Can enter all hometowns normally allowable to your race
5) PFU works normally.
6) Able to receive minor healing from blessed/cursed water/food.

Necromancer Disadvantages compared to Lich:
1) No unique class defining ability that is desirable (keyword there folks) in zoning situations. Necromancers simple do not have some ability group’s need you for that a lich can’t already do. If there is a necro and a lich on, the lich will get the invite.

Note:
Boneshatter was not mentioned as an advantage, because lich pets can still cast it. Therefor a lich still has the ability via their pets to cast this spell.
Blackmantle is available to both classes, and therefore it is not class unique and defining between these two.


As it currently stands, there are more reasons to lich then to remain a necromancer. How can the necromancer be made a viable option to a lich? They need unique abilities that are desirable to groups. I see two immediate, and relatively easy, ways this can be done.

Suggestion #1: Soul Walk – this ability needs to be able to work in !tele zones. Right now, it doesn’t. If it did, this would be a class unique ability compared to ALL classes currently in the game and make this class very desirable in !tele zones. This would allow a group to continue not just without Ress, but more importantly without Ress F/X.

Suggestion #2: Vampiric Curse – Option A: Allow this to land on shielded mobs. Option B: Allow this to pop fire-shields and land on fire-shielded mobs.
Last edited by Llaaldara on Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Eilistraee
Staff Member - Quests
Posts: 1097
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2003 7:20 pm

Postby Eilistraee » Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:26 pm

Soul walk does indeed work in no-teleport zones. It is hampered only by level, and if the target has any equipment worn or in inventory.

Vampiric curse working on shield is something of a technical issue, in my spare time I've thought about this but haven't come to a solid opinion on it yet though.
Llaaldara
Sojourner
Posts: 998
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Dobluth Kyor

Postby Llaaldara » Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:30 pm

Eilistraee wrote:Soul walk does indeed work in no-teleport zones. It is hampered only by level, and if the target has any equipment worn or in inventory.


My source on this was Yun, who informed me that as of 2 weeks ago he was unable to get it to work in !tele zones.

I've never used the spell personaly.
sok
Sojourner
Posts: 1578
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 5:01 am
Location: santa ana, ca, usa
Contact:

Postby sok » Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:56 pm

nice job lla tab+add
lintral
Sojourner
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:06 am

Postby lintral » Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:05 am

Just a few days ago I soul walked my wife to her corpse in Undermountain. And I know Dartan took a necromancer with him to do BC each time to speed things up.
Thilindel
Sojourner
Posts: 3173
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:09 pm
Location: Indianapolis

Postby Thilindel » Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:02 am

Wow, that a good post ! Now to see if goodie necros can quest into the superior drow version *halo*
fotex
Sojourner
Posts: 288
Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 12:23 am

Postby fotex » Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:55 pm

llaaldara wrote:7) Perfect Night and Day vision


I thought only drow liches get this (ultravision + infravision)? I could be very wrong though.
Nekelet
Sojourner
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:54 pm

Postby Nekelet » Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:19 pm

fotex wrote:
llaaldara wrote:7) Perfect Night and Day vision


I thought only drow liches get this (ultravision + infravision)? I could be very wrong though.


All liches see perfectly in all but magical darkness.
In essence, the ultras gain day vision, and surface walkers gain night.
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Postby kiryan » Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:19 pm

Eilistraee wrote:Soul walk does indeed work in no-teleport zones. It is hampered only by level, and if the target has any equipment worn or in inventory.

Vampiric curse working on shield is something of a technical issue, in my spare time I've thought about this but haven't come to a solid opinion on it yet though.


1. Agree, soul walk works perfectly, and as far as I know may have had unintended features, but has always worked.

2. omg thank you for thinking about vamp curse.
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
Botef
Sojourner
Posts: 1056
Joined: Fri May 10, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Eastern Washington
Contact:

Postby Botef » Wed Dec 22, 2004 11:47 pm

Thought I would toss in that Life Walk currently is not working 100% as it will not allow you to life walk to the plane of smoke (and the others Im assuming). Seems no matter how many times you try in a row, you will always get the message saying 'you feel questy but remain in this reality'
Eilistraee
Staff Member - Quests
Posts: 1097
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2003 7:20 pm

Postby Eilistraee » Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:08 am

This is fixed and will be in next copyover. Sorry for the inconvenience :)
Llaaldara
Sojourner
Posts: 998
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Dobluth Kyor

Postby Llaaldara » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:36 pm

12/24/04 [Eilistraee] SCTs and Crash Fixes
- Choking Palace code updated again - should be fixed now. Really.
- Vampiric curse goes through fire/cold shield now.
- Disarmed NO-DROP weapons now go into the wielders inventory.
- PFU works for the undead now.


Eili, you SO frigging Rock! :)
Eilistraee
Staff Member - Quests
Posts: 1097
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2003 7:20 pm

Postby Eilistraee » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:50 pm

Just to clarify the news entry, it should read that the PFU effect on Protect Undead works correctly
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Postby kiryan » Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:18 pm

add "ability to nuke fireshield" to LICH pluses... however, it can not nuke perm fireshields which is somewhat common.
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!

Return to “T2 Gameplay Discussion Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests