Menzo!!!!!

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Nebomosel
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Menzo!!!!!

Postby Nebomosel » Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:21 am

I heard that Menzo was put in so I decided to look. I love it!!! :D :D However, I do have one little problem with it. What's up with the daylight rooms? I thought this was the Underdark? Yet there are rooms and one whole section of Menzo that is not accessible to those who are dayblind. Is this intentional? Would love other input.

Neb
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Postby Eilistraee » Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:33 am

The daylight rooms are an oversight glitch that'll be fixed up shortly. As you said, this IS Menzoberranzan. Thanks for the feedback however :)
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Postby grundar » Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:45 am

its not just menzo, there are spots in darklake as well.
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Postby Burmadapig » Sun Mar 27, 2005 2:37 am

probably one or more of the HL underdark room types didn't convert...we had several
Cyric
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Postby Cyric » Sun Mar 27, 2005 3:11 am

Yep, we think we've fixed most, and should be better with next reboot.

Now where's the excitement people?!? I started here 10 years ago and Menzo was "coming soon". Now it's here and we've been up for 6 hours and I see exactly one first level drow. I'd think that 70 of the 70 people online would be in a massive drow group right now trying to figure the place out.

When we boot again and fix this daylight problem I expect all of you to stop trying to get your 5th set of Jot gear and go explore a new zone as a true newbie with newbie stuff...that's what you enjoyed when you started here, remember?

Thank you and you may now return to your regularly scheduled gaming.

</soapbox>
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Postby Thilindel » Sun Mar 27, 2005 3:27 am

I love the new zone! Yaya's really married to an elf.
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Postby Botef » Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:36 am

Just one question. Why is it where it is? It seems to be very misplaced. Should put it west of gloomhaven, or update the Tunnel of Dread descriptions and remove all the references to it being the road to menzo.

Otherwise pretty neat zone, look forward to exploring it more. Glad menzo finally exists.
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Postby Lahgen » Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:44 am

I did make a drow cleric and explored Menzo.

Then I spent a bit of time in the supporting areas, even finding a way to Evermoors, until I died af the darklakes.
Kesena OOC: 'i wish my daddy bought me power tools'
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Postby Tasan » Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:58 am

Cyric wrote:Now where's the excitement people?!? I started here 10 years ago and Menzo was "coming soon". Now it's here and we've been up for 6 hours and I see exactly one first level drow.


If it takes 10 years to get Tiamat back in the game, you won't see many excited people either.

!!x
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Postby Thilindel » Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:22 am

But that kind of attitude is neg feedback. Reminds me of how my mom will complain about getting me to do something, so I do it. Then when you're doing it, she bitches about how many times she'd asked to do it. Staff time is volunteered, so I'm always happy to see new things...even when shev has to BOLD things for me.
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Postby Gura » Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:42 am

new expression.... "when miax's menzo is done" :lol: good work
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Postby Vaprak » Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:43 am

Botef wrote:Just one question. Why is it where it is? It seems to be very misplaced. Should put it west of gloomhaven, or update the Tunnel of Dread descriptions and remove all the references to it being the road to menzo.

Otherwise pretty neat zone, look forward to exploring it more. Glad menzo finally exists.


Due to putting things where stuff actually belongs per Forgotten Realms cannon we put it where it is. Trust me. We'll look into adjusting the Tunnel of Dread to not reference Menzo anymore soonish.
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Demuladon
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Postby Demuladon » Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:15 am

Love the new areas..

..this might be a silly question, but isn't Menzo considered Under Dark?

If so, innate sneak doesn't seem to be working there.


eg I saw:

The Braeryn
Exits: -N -E -S -W#
A soft leather bag has been dropped here.
A suspicious drow slides from shadow to shadow along the side of the street.

< 19h/19H 123v/124V >
The door is opened from the other side.

< 19h/19H 123v/124V >
Jetec enters from the west.

< 19h/19H 123v/124V >
Jetec leaves north.

[ 8 Rog] Jetec (Drow Elf)
Cyric
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Postby Cyric » Sun Mar 27, 2005 2:13 pm

Oops! I wrote the Tunnel of Dread when Miax was "almost done with Menzo" (zone file dated 10/24/96). I'll go through it and adjust accordingly.
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Postby Ambar » Sun Mar 27, 2005 3:18 pm

Cyric wrote:Oops! I wrote the Tunnel of Dread when Miax was "almost done with Menzo" (zone file dated 10/24/96). I'll go through it and adjust accordingly.


so is Cyric gonna start tours now?

*duck*
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Postby Yasden » Sun Mar 27, 2005 3:25 pm

Term Tour '05? :P
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Postby Tasan » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:08 am

There are a lot of echo/social typos. Someone should really go back through those files and fix them.

!!x
Danahg tells you 'yeah, luckily i kept most of it in my mouth and nasal membranes, ugh'



Dlur group-says 'I have a dead horse that I'm dragging down the shaft with my 4 corpses. Anyone want to help me beat it?'



Calladuran: There are other games to play if you want to play with yourself.
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Postby Burmadapig » Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:12 am

I'd put 20 on have/has use! Go SWEDES!
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Postby Llaaldara » Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:41 pm

Hi,

I'd just like to thank all the staff involved who helped make putting Menzo in possible. It's great to see this long awaited addition to the mud. :) Bravo!

I admit, I still have not explored it entirely, and there remains a lot for me to check out, but I did want to address some things. The town so far has a very.. 'vacant' (almost like a ghost town) feel to it. I remember it being like this on HomelandMUD as well, so I don't think it's not working as intended. So I'm wondering: Was this because Homeland focused more on getting folks outside of hometowns to kill? (This would make sense to me).

Please understand I am sincerely not trying to insult the area maker(s) on this at all. So please don't take offense. :( I have the greatest respect for what you guys do. I was just expecting something more along the lines of the evilrace version of WD, that is, mobs everywhere. Lots of commotion from being a packed underground metropolis. Things like annoying kobold salesmen trying to sell you things you don't need, duergar merchants grumbling about being forced to sell at reduced prices, bugbear bodyguards snarling at lone drows, etc. Would it be possible to perhaps just some how increase the mob count? It just feels.. lonely to go 5-15 rooms before you find one solo mob.

I certainly don't want the maker(s) to get the impression that I want to tell him how to do his job, because that most certainly is not the case. I'd just like him/her/them to know I'd be happy to share any creative ideas I have with them directly (if they'd like to hear them that is), and I'd be more then happy to do any leg work for such endeavors.

Please understand this is not a complaint (so please god don't take it as such), just a sincere offer to help in any way I can to help make Toril the best it can possibly be.

-LL
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Postby Shiallia » Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:03 pm

We are currently working towards increasing the population. The lack of mobs is a result of the fact that this is a LARGE area and it takes a lot of mobs to make it feel less vacant. And quite frankly, after making 300 mobs and still having the same look, you run out of ideas for new ones and have to stop and look back to come up with new ideas.
Please be patient and continue to aid us in making the area what it should be. We have a lot on our plates right now but we are trying to keep up:)
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Postby Gura » Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:13 pm

oh yea btw. u goofs linked a room to the last room in orchall. good job i died there last night :-P drop me a tell later and ill show u where. its not in menzo..just part of the surrounding areas added in that was near the old grackstlugh ht on homeland.
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'



Nokie wiggles his bottom.

Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'

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Postby Siamorphe » Mon Mar 28, 2005 10:52 pm

Gura wrote:oh yea btw. u goofs linked a room to the last room in orchall. good job i died there last night :-P drop me a tell later and ill show u where. its not in menzo..just part of the surrounding areas added in that was near the old grackstlugh ht on homeland.

That exit is fixed and awaiting copyover, and was fixed about the same time I trans'd you out of OHP this morning. :P
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Postby kiryan » Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:53 am

Isn't the UD supposed to be very sparse. Even in Menzo, I thought people travel with squads to stay safe...
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
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Postby Burmadapig » Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:50 am

Exactly Kiryan. None of the UD cities are supposed to be populated like a surface city.
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Postby Selias » Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:41 am

In all the books i've read about menzo (RA Salvatore style) It seemed to me that there was a large population that lived in Menzo, and they weren't all drow. Lots of slaves doing errands for their masters, slaves being sold. Afterall aren't there like 40 noble houses in menzo? 8 or so of which are in the city proper I think. I'd love to see this city become similar to WD with lots of zone echos and people moving around.

Keep up the good work!! =)
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Postby grundar » Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:30 pm

menzo has powerful enchantments that keep the city silent.. so unless you were pretty dam close to the noise you wouldnt hear it. and so certain kinds of zone emotes wouldnt look good.
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Postby Burmadapig » Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:16 pm

About as close as you're going to get to a bustling surface city in the Underdark would be Skullport. Even Mantol-Derith, the hidden trade center for drow, duergar, svirfneblin, and surface dwellers is sparsely populated. The denizens of the Underdark are not prone to the gregarious nature of the surface dwelling races. I hope that any mob additions to Menzo are in the form of random loads that keep the city from becoming overpopulated with a stagnant set of mobs. This would be more appropriate as outsiders are not welcome residents in Menzo. Any non-drow or drow that worship any deity but Lolth are most likely to be enslaved or meet their own demise.
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Postby Llaaldara » Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:04 pm

Before you go talking about how populated Menzo, or Ched Nasad, or whichever, I suggest heavily to each and every one of you to read books/material based in these cities and not limit yourself to those written by R.A. Salvatore a lone.

I emphatically implore you to read the War of the Spider Queen series in particular, which focuses on things within Underdark cities (even Menzo), and a different author writes each book. As well as the Menzo boxed set material, and Drizzt’s Guide to the Underdark (which is done by the game people, not the series author, that gives city specs and details on many UD cities).

According to the materials I’ve read on Drow and Underdark cities, Menzo is not described or portrayed as a ghost town. Non-Drow are not running for their lives, or even unwelcome to the City of Spiders. Their numbers as visitors are limited, and they are contained, monitored, and controlled to certain areas of the city, namely kept away from the noble houses, and channeled into the merchant areas and slave/ghetto quarters/areas. There is a bazaar area where people meet and trade that is noisy, and the city has noise dampeners that keep the volume down and from traveling to the rest of the city, but not making it dead quiet.
Grundar is very correct in zone echo’s not being appropriate. The Menzo zone would have to be chopped up into a bunch of smaller zones in order for the zone echo’s to be appropriate. I doubt any area writer would want to do that to their zone, so I’m not even suggesting or expecting it. I never had issue with zone echo’s, I am talking about mobs in general and them ‘saying’ things to passerby, because it’s very easy to limit a mob to where it can and cannot go.
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Postby Llaaldara » Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:20 pm

Burmadapig wrote:Exactly Kiryan. None of the UD cities are supposed to be populated like a surface city.


False.

Many UD cities are comparable to surface cities, and in some cases are larger population per size wise. The main difference between the two, is UD cities tend to be vertically based, while surface based cities tend to be horizontal based, which naturally causes them to sprawl out more, taking up more physical space.

A more correct statement would be: UD cities typically take up less physical space then surface areas, but tend to be more heavily populated per square foot.
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Postby Burmadapig » Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:44 pm

Llaaldara, your statement would not be "more correct." Reread Drizzt's Guide and then reread the North. By comparison, the population of UD cities is fractional per square foot. It has nothing to do with the layout of the cities.

As far as areas echos go, mob echos or room echos would work the way that you would want them to. Zone echos, as stated, would not. Mob echos travel with the mob. Room echos are for that room only. You wouldn't have to split the zone into pieces if done this way.
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Postby Ssryth » Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:48 am

Demuladon wrote:Love the new areas..

..this might be a silly question, but isn't Menzo considered Under Dark?

If so, innate sneak doesn't seem to be working there.


eg I saw:

The Braeryn
Exits: -N -E -S -W#
A soft leather bag has been dropped here.
A suspicious drow slides from shadow to shadow along the side of the street.

< 19h/19H 123v/124V >
The door is opened from the other side.

< 19h/19H 123v/124V >
Jetec enters from the west.

< 19h/19H 123v/124V >
Jetec leaves north.

[ 8 Rog] Jetec (Drow Elf)


It works "outdoors" in the underdark, much like outdoor sneak

Ssryth.
Disoputlip
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Postby Disoputlip » Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:36 pm

No wonder players dont go there. It is buggy as hell.

Fix recall
Fix daylight rooms
Read bug log (the standard one that comes when you use the bug command)
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Postby Burmadapig » Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:46 am

Wasn't buggy on Homeland. Just have to be patient as they fix the conversion to Toril format issues.

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