Is this a friggin joke?

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
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Is this a friggin joke?

Postby thanuk » Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:32 am

Do not post item stats -Cyric
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Postby Sarell » Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:55 pm

I think the consensus is that Izan's stats are a joke, nogs.
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Postby Pril » Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:03 pm

Eh storms are >>>>>> than fumes too and they aren't a quest which involves multiple rares, oh and storms can be located. I think the concensus is that erlans rewards need to be upgraded

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Postby Ashiwi » Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:15 pm

I thought storms were changed to be !locate.
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Postby Vaprak » Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:21 pm

Epic quest rewards are slated to be looked at soon.

I'd wager that fumes is a prime candidate for some sort of change.
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Postby Yasden » Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:22 pm

Up dice on pestilence too! >:)
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Postby Ruxur » Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:08 am

i dont think izans stats are a joke at all. The really nice items are also really rare.

yes i am prepared to get flamed.
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Postby thanuk » Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:17 am

Ruxur wrote:i dont think izans stats are a joke at all. The really nice items are also really rare.

yes i am prepared to get flamed.


Do erlans, then do Izans, and tell me which should give better rewards. No flaming necessary.
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Postby kiryan » Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:56 am

erlans gives you 5 rewards? 6 rewards?

most of the rares are soloable.

I'm not saying Izan's doesnt completely game the eq calcr, but erlans results in too many pieces to have any good eq.
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Postby thanuk » Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:12 am

kiryan wrote:erlans gives you 5 rewards? 6 rewards?

most of the rares are soloable.

I'm not saying Izan's doesnt completely game the eq calcr, but erlans results in too many pieces to have any good eq.


That's an absurd statement. You have to plug 5-6 nice pieces of eq in there on top of all the rare hunting. And i'd say maybe half the rares are soloable. Some require groups of 8-10 to kill, ignoring their comically low rare %.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
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Erlan Rewards

Postby Klandal » Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:15 am

Do not post quest details. -Cyric
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Postby Gura » Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:26 pm

upgrade finder eq while ur at it. the cloak sucks, the pendants are good but still not compareable to spob neckguards. the bracelet is good but still worse than musp bracers since maxint is a dime a dozen. the blade is ok for an ogre and the mandolin is such a rarely used instrument its practically useless. this quest isnt hard to figure out but u have to do alot of zones for it..dunno how u cant value it higher on the point scale.
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Postby Maedor » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:08 am

Epic quest items are obviously hard to balance.

People do a long quest, and expect awesome rewards. But when you give 5+ items as rewards for one quest, you cannot justify awesome stats on very many of the items-if any. What if after completing Erlans, you had a % chance to get 2 or 3 of the 5 items that load currently? That could cause other issues, and current erlan's eq would need to be adjusted in some way to compensate for rewarding all 5 rewards instead of just 2-3, but it's the only way I see a 4dam 10ac bracelet being justified for the work involved with erlans. Not knowing exactly what items you would get might also incent people to do the quest over and over...for better or worse.
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Postby Gura » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:36 am

u cant use the calc'r to determine points for quest rewards. enough said.
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'



Nokie wiggles his bottom.

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Postby teflor the ranger » Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:01 am

A moonblade with a golden hilt flashes with intense light, burning you severly.

But it procs, damnit.

Another note, could we possibly have such racist effects show up in identify? Thx.
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Postby Gura » Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:06 am

removing pestilence would mean i have to find another way to a. powerlevel my hitters in ds and b. tag mobs in seelie. sooooo no dice.
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'



Nokie wiggles his bottom.

Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'

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Re: Is this a friggin joke?

Postby thanuk » Thu Mar 31, 2005 12:35 am

thanuk wrote:Do not post item stats -Cyric


Well stop makin me!

As an aside, i cant believe you took down my complete pwnership of kiryan. I didn't even curse that much!
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
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Postby Gura » Thu Mar 31, 2005 12:52 am

Do not make ridiculous stats-Gura
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'



Nokie wiggles his bottom.

Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'

Bobidibble GCC: 'yeah i admit gura is a better warrior then i am, no shame in it... perhaps someday i shall be as pimp'
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Postby kiryan » Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:27 am

As an aside, i cant believe you took down my complete pwnership of thanuk. I didn't even curse at all!
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
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Postby Sarell » Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:58 pm

Comparing fumes to izan's is pretty hard to do, considering you get lots of other items from erlan aswell, fumes is junk for the trouble, but the gauntlets and swords arn't bad. Admitedly, I think it would be FAR easier to do nazI 3 times than erlan once. The haul you would get would be rather different in stature. I'd be more concerned with the fact you can walk out of izan's with 5 top end items in an hour and a half, than through comparing it with erlan.

Don't get me wrong tho, the layout and awesome funness adventure factor in Izans I love. None stop battle, like TF! :) It's just the rewards make none of those stats>ansi folk want to go anyplace else!
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Postby kiryan » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:32 pm

you can also walk out of izans after 1.5-2 hours with just belt and chain...

Why are we using izan's as our measurement. How many people have you heard come out and say Izan is the near perfect application of the eq calcr and risk vs reward... Its retarded to argue for upgrades by comparison to a broken ass zone.

Whats interesting is it takes about 30 total player hours of effort compared to how many for erlan? If you don't count the GC rares, you've still got at least 15 player hour to clear forka and another 15 player hours in another zone chasing a rare... I wonder if that rare from another zone has as many points as it should have...

Anyhow upgrade the crap out of Forka invasion. I'd love to see that be a challenging EPIC type battle. Don't just upgrade the final fight, upgrade all the waves too.

And again please don't upgrade the past rewards retroactively and don't make them uniques either.
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Postby Gura » Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:32 am

kiryan wrote:you can also walk out of izans after 1.5-2 hours with just belt and chain...

Why are we using izan's as our measurement. How many people have you heard come out and say Izan is the near perfect application of the eq calcr and risk vs reward... Its retarded to argue for upgrades by comparison to a broken ass zone.



its not. it should be spob we compare it against. :lol:
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'



Nokie wiggles his bottom.

Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'

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Postby Sarell » Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:44 am

people are talking about izans because it gets done every day and yields so many good items, it would be pretty darn unlikely you walked out of izans with only belt and chain, even if you did, you would have an awesome belt :9
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Postby Ruxur » Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:30 am

Sarell wrote:. I'd be more concerned with the fact you can walk out of izan's with 5 top end items in an hour and a half, than through comparing it with erlan.



dude, ive NEVER had 5 top end items load at one time. You are on crack.
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Postby Gura » Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:39 am

top end isnt the best of the best ruxur...keep that in mind.
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'



Nokie wiggles his bottom.

Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'

Bobidibble GCC: 'yeah i admit gura is a better warrior then i am, no shame in it... perhaps someday i shall be as pimp'
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Postby Sarell » Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:42 am

Lilithelle group-says 'stupid arrows'
Maxler group-says 'and people say downgrade this zone'
Kirya group-says 'blur out'
Strugg group-says 'BLUR OUT!!!!'
Kavik group-says 'Blur out.'
Pappakizul group-says '---Vit out---'
Maxler group-says 'we just had 2 spanks on a lil run and arrows loaded it dosent need nerfing'

Lilithelle a cloak of severed pixie wings
a black arrow with orcish runes
a basilisk scale belt
a silver ring
a silver plated longsword with gold filled etchings
a blue velvet pouch with red trim
a pair of charred gauntlets
a silver plated war drum

You group-say 'seriously you dont think that's a big haul for 2.5 hours or whatever it took us?'
Lirela group-says 'took 3 hrs'
You group-say 'well ive been online for 2:44'

This was a slow run, we got spanked twice.



OOPS< I HAD POSTED STATS HERE TO MAKE A POINT BUT I HAD TO REMOVE THEM I GUESS.....


I'd say cloak, drum, belt, wings and gauntlets are top end items and YOU said this was a bad load? But I'll take some crack if it's going?

I still really LOVE izan's as a zone and don't even think the items are that over powering, it just has WAY to many of them and WAY too many load at once. I'd be happy if one of those 5 items loaded in a zone to be honest.
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Postby Ruxur » Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:08 am

gauntlets are ok
belt is nice
and i wasnt aware at the time that pixie wings loaded
you listed cloak and wings there the same item
drums are nice, if yer a bard, keep in mind glaive is nice too but dosent draw a whole lot of bids because its a bard item

lets compare it to a zone that most people will say is balanced SC

mage/priest band better than anything that loads in izans except tank ring
mage staff granted it needs questing, but the start of an uber item
damage cloak worn by a large percentage of rogue mains
glaive best bard weapon in game
goggles almost every high level mage wears these top end item


vs todays load
pixie cloak
drum
gauntlets
belt



can you not see where SC is a TON better than izans? Granted it should be a ton better than izans, its a much harder zone. This is what makes me say that izans (with the exception of wristguard) is balanced well.


some people argue that tank ring is unbalanced. Well before you say that, i have led the zone 26 times. The tank ring has loaded once.

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Postby Marrus » Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:56 am

I think, the problem with Izan's (and by extension spob) is that it is not a static load. SC yields nice rewards but the rewards it gives are nearly unchanging. Sure this isn't 100% true but the variation of an SC load is miniscule compared to spob or izan's.

And that's the problem: you can take the snapshot of a load from any single boot and argue that it is balanced (or at least not completely egregious), but the problem is next boot will be a very different load of very different eq that is also just as nice. This is bothersome because it encourages these zones to be favored each boot rather than other zones. It creates a pattern of zoning where only the latest greatest zones are done regularly and all else as an afterthought. It used to be spob was done each boot. Now it is izans. Someday it will be another. That's a shame because of all those zones plus many others are fun to do. Wouldn't it be preferable to have an environment where a visiting a variety of zones (old and new) is encouraged rather than religiously doing the same recently zone added because the randomness of load allows gaming of the eq calculator?
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Postby Sarell » Fri Apr 01, 2005 8:15 am

Oppps, my bad on cloak/wings listed twice. Keep in mind we didn't even check combat boots or do dagger (dagger sucks) that run.

The thing with seelie is those items don't always load aswell. And even in the instance where you do get the best load, you can only fill so many slots in seelie, and yeh, seelie is a bit harder than izan's. I agree with Marrus entirely. Even if izan's was balanced for one boot, which I totally don't think it is, the next boot it might have a whole other range of top items aswell. The fact you can say you've lead it 26 times since it has gone it clearly show it is the most favoured zone on the mud, i've lead it about 10, lili has lead it lots, pava and klandan have lead a few. Not getting the ring in 26 runs is surely just horribly unlucky? Even if it did take 26 runs however, it is one of the best tank rings there is, it should be exceptionally hard to get.

I think of older zones like scorps suffer from having so many top tier items in one zone. So while Izan's is a fantastic zone in its own right, it doesn't fit in in a balanced way with existing zones. Scorps takes much longer than izans. You get a few decent items, but you can't just keep doing it over and over and populating your whole range of characters kits. How many different really good items come from izans compared to any oter zone bar spob which suffers the same problem? If there were enough zones that you could have a choice of items of similar difficulty to get it woul be less of a problem, however there simply isn't.

I don't think now, it has been in so long it would be fair and would cause uproar to downgrade everyone stuff severely either, perhaps the solution would be to just make the keys in izans all rare, even the silver one? So you maybe come out with 1 or 2 really good items after the zone. Then as we make new zones, we can learn from izans, and not make more zones that put every other zone on the mud into the 'old zones' category.

I think the best way to combat it would be to do what i think is currently being done, and put some TOP items, even if teribly rare in the older zones that have nothing or just musp quest items. At the same time reduce the load rate in izans mightily.
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Postby Ruxur » Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:22 pm

heh the reason i have led the zone 26 times isn't because its got expecially good eq. The reason is that i can't lead any other zone. So if i wanna lead something, it kinda has to be that zone :-P maybe i need to expand a bit.

as far as that tank ring goes, i believe only 2 people in game have 2 of them, that would be Kramel and I.
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Postby Ionari » Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:03 pm

Pril wrote:I think the concensus is that erlans rewards need to be upgraded


Nice to hear Erlan's Quest is finally complete.
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Postby kiryan » Fri Apr 01, 2005 8:00 pm

izan has three problems.

too much eq period (not counting the nostat items which were brilliant)
too high of a load rate (on average been on 7 or 8 bad loads, 3 or 4 amazing loads, and rest tend to be 3-4 good wearable pieces of eq)

too much ac on the pieces (a lot of the eq would be lackluster if it didnt have so god damn much ac).
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
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Postby Selzan » Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:24 pm

Ruxur wrote:as far as that tank ring goes, i believe only 2 people in game have 2 of them, that would be Kramel and I.


Whelp, I have 2 on Selzan, but it's not like they are doing anyone much good right now :) I'm sure there are other inactives with 2 as well. For what it's worth though, I think the stats on the ring are fine given its rarity. The zone could afford to lose some of the AC though on most of its assorted "mediocre-type" loads.

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