How to attract more players

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
malakwee
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How to attract more players

Postby malakwee » Wed May 25, 2005 4:08 am

What i believe the biggest problem the game is faced with at present, is, as some players put it, 'a general decline in the mud's pbase'

Let us discuss on that... let us put our target towards finding potential reason for the decline, and help attack that problem so that the mud can attract more pbase.

Here is my contribution... The game has been around for years, and have its own loyal folowers. And one of the more interesting part of the game that kept people coming back again and again is the quests that are available. For a majority of these 'loyalist' they dream of completing uber or epic quests.

Lately, after talking to quite a number of people (sorry for not qualifying this), i believe one major factor that causes these 'loyalist' to take time off, is because of the change or changes, that has or have been done to dragons of late. Since many of those uber or epic quests require 'components' from dragons, the quests have become too difficult or impossible to complete, hence what these 'loyalists' do is that, they play a waiting game to see if dragons are finalized or not... to see if they are doable or not...

Mebbe finalizing dragons can be one good way to bring these 'loyalists' back hence doing the first part of re-stocking the game with more p-base.

Regards
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Postby Ambar » Wed May 25, 2005 6:56 am

This is the thread that never ends, it goes on and on my friends .....


Remember snail mail? We all used to use it ... Remember checkwriting and the infrequent use of Credit cards?

Remember when folks like Aradune were mudders? As more graphical games come out, I bet the number of table toppers dwindled too ...

Technology changed ... sure some people still insist cash is better, or prefer mudding, but as a whole we grew up ... your mudders of yesterday either stopped gaming or went to consoles or games such as EQ, WoW, etc ...

I don't think its player attitude, I don't think its questing or the game being any harder ... I don't think it was melee never being fixed or equipment changes, balance issues, etc .,..

People go for the NOW gratification ... in ANYTHING ... people don't have the patience anymore to take YEARS to deck out a character ... the graphical games can be *high ended* much easier and faster ...

Even your *that baby better be on fire* folks have less time to mud ... they have families and REAL jobs, are in grad school, etc .. Your 17 year old mudding addicts from the 1990's are ... wow OLD now ...
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Postby kiryan » Wed May 25, 2005 7:17 pm

major wounds to our pbase:

1. when the euros couldn't connect (herse)

2. the majority of the players aren't in college anymore and therefore don't have access to the younger people who would typically mud.

3. that there is very very little you can do on toril that doesn't take less than 1 hour. Since most of us have aged, we have less contiguous time to dedicate.

4. we've been playing the same game for 10 years. Where are kingdoms, where are trade skills, where are "instanced" dungeons, alternative advancement...

5. every mud has an epic level accomplishment, and it needs to continually escalate.

We can't even get tiamat back in the game after 4 years.
Last edited by kiryan on Wed May 25, 2005 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Botef » Wed May 25, 2005 7:27 pm

Ya know I just don't get it. Today I rolled characters on Aardwolf, Achea and Carrion Fields, the top three muds on Top Mud Sites...They blow, unbelieably so. The ANSI sucks, the eq looks stupid, its far to confusing and hard to 'read', it lacked the 'tightness' that sojourn has always provided me with.

So I guess I fail to see why they are able to hold a playerbase of 500 at peak times, or rather why we don't retain players as well. I didnt notice many unique features, and Achea just plain seemed retarded (Mobs were in the description, so you had no way of easily seeing them when you enter a room).

About the only thing that I found to be particularly unique was that the moment I logged into Aardwolf I had 5-6 helpers sending me tells and giving me advice.
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Postby Birile » Wed May 25, 2005 7:30 pm

Ambar wrote:Your 17 year old mudding addicts from the 1990's are ... wow OLD now ...


Where did I put my cane?

The Age of MUD has gone the way of dinosaurs like myself. The pbase will not ever have a significant increase.

Period.
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Postby Lilira » Wed May 25, 2005 8:41 pm

Another problem that people have been running into lately are the attitudes of some of the people who play.

I've talked to five or six people who had come to try Toril out but they talked to someone who was rude and couldn't be bothered to give them the time of day because they weren't "Elite". I think the worst part was, they were getting the same response from different people. This is soo sad.

Has common courtesy really gone the way of the Dodo? I still don't understand why people who are going to be away from the keys for hours just don't, oh I dunno, RENT! So it makes us look like there's more people on then there actually are. If someone sends them a tell and never gets a response that just looks bad to new people.

I understand we have our newbie helpers and they are great, don't get me wrong. But as a player who has been here for 10 years, I _still_ get the kind of condescending "pat on the head" treatment from people that so grates on the nerves. Thankfully I know enough other people who definately balance it out. But imagine how a new person must feel. I stopped giving advice to new bards unless they ask for it, because it annoys me to have someone I don't even know telling me how to play my character.

Okay, taking a deep breath. :lol:

Seriously. I know someone who deleted his prime char and 5 other of his chars because he got so tired of the bad attitudes and mannerless wretches he kept running into. He did it after one night he was verbally abused for winning a bid on auction. The profanity that came out of that person's mouth was completely uncalled for.

Poof. There goes another old school player. He still plays, but not nearly as often, and his enjoyment in the game has diminished.

This simple lack of courtesy would get people ignored in the real world, or punched in the face. Unfortuneatly Torilmud is a lot smaller, and very few people actually hold others accountable for their rude and obnoxious behavior. By not doing this, we drive new interested parties to find other places to play. Whats the use of us voting to get our mud to the top of the lists if when people come to try us out they're driven away by the other players?

Ambar is right. Most of the mudding community has grown up. Can some of us act like it? I wouldn't want my kids to log in to some of the groups I've seen.
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Postby Thilindel » Wed May 25, 2005 10:27 pm

One thing in particular is, while understanding admin have busy lives as well, there is little to no feedback on inquiries about when rangers will be done/redone, or if they're even considered for it. (That was just one example...this goes along the lines of what Shev used to post when Toril sprung from Sojourn). Shev would keep us in the loop and even had top 5 request/ideals to see put in the game. That's the type of 'Hey, he really cares' that made me thing about this mud when I wasn't logged on. Reminds me of a fire, you have to keep feeding it, and don't play with it too much or ya get burned :P
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Postby kiryan » Thu May 26, 2005 3:21 am

ok people have attitudes... why? cuz they are naturally assholes? while thats true in some cases, the attitudes i think spring from a frustration at an inability to prove your "eliteness".

While the average skill level of the players, and more importantedly their knowledge of quests and zones, has improved over the years, the difficulty of the game has not. How does one prove that hes better than another player today. I think its the foundation of competition.

Things to consider: top encounter, Tiamat, has been out of the game for 4 years. restrings are handed to complete noobs who couldnt play the game to save their life (im not saying this is wrong just consider it). You can be the best player in the game but unless you live online you can't quest for shiz since every worthwhile quest item is farmed within 30 minutes of reboot and won't repop. anyone can level a rogue to 50 in a week and spend 8 hours practicing hide and sneak and walk all over 99% of zones with almost no risk.

consider also that when there are more players, there is more choice. I can be an a$$hole every day but i'll still go to every zone because there arent a lot of other choices.

so if you need everyone to think your better than everyone else, how else can you accomplish it other than telling them how much better you are than they are or showing your disdain for their noobness?

moving on....

since you indicate that social is a key (through saying attitudes are partly to fault), what are the mechanisms here that are a barrier to communication and social behavior...

who list doesnt show everyone
tells dont currently go to people you cant see (some effort is being made to change this but it is not planned to affect player invoked conditions like invis or hidden)
guilds are limited to 30 people
large groups result in less exp per person per hour especially for support classes who get much less exp than damage oriented classes.
groups are limited to 15 (even if you wanted to bring a noob you don't always have the group slots to waste)
private player channels are limited to "groups"
you can solo/small group most things
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Postby Sarell » Thu May 26, 2005 10:26 am

I think the BBS is the problem, everyone seems to be posting on the BBS but not even playing! The BBS is clearly too fun, make bright yellow and green ansi the only option on the BBS so people have to work hard to use it, so they just say 'screw that, im not going to post this long whine about the mud, i think ill just go smite something on the mud' ! *nog self*

But in reality, I think advertising and telling people is the key. There are plenty of people that would like mudding, you just have to get them addicted! Zillions of people play runescape and it is total junk, but everywhere you go online you hear of it. I hear kids at school talking about it all the time.

I think the level of politics that goes on for such a small game are pretty intense and drive away a lot of new players.
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Thu May 26, 2005 4:02 pm

Birile wrote:
Ambar wrote:Your 17 year old mudding addicts from the 1990's are ... wow OLD now ...


Where did I put my cane?

The Age of MUD has gone the way of dinosaurs like myself. The pbase will not ever have a significant increase.

Period.


So aardwolf, acheae, etc. all of those muds compete with graphical crap just like we do. You know what else? We have a BETTER mud here than any of the muds mentioned above. Why don't we have the pbase? Not enough newbie attraction, not enough newbie advertisement. Not enough dedicated players willing to stop and help a newbie, they would rather get their 6th alt decked out in some uber leet eq. We can get more players, but it takes a staff AND player effort to do so.

The Age of MUD is gone blah blah blah, is just a cop out for those not willing to put forth that effort. Muds are still as addictive today as they were 10 years ago, they haven't changed much.
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Postby Birile » Thu May 26, 2005 5:20 pm

Nurpy Fuzzyfeet wrote:The Age of MUD is gone blah blah blah, is just a cop out for those not willing to put forth that effort.


Riiiight... I'll be right back, I gotta go round up all of my friends who are playing WoW and EQ and let them know text is where it's at.

And while I'm at it, I gotta go tell my boss that I would rather put forth the effort to better a MUD's pbase than do my work. And tonight, I gotta tell my daughter to forego dinner and quality time with Daddy because I'm busy with the MUD. And my romantic getaway? I'll cancel it, saving this MUD is far too important and I'm tired of copping out. You're absolutely right. It's no big deal, I'm sure my boss, my daughter and my boyfriend will understand.

Be right back...

:roll:

Don't get me wrong, I do agree with some of what you say, but don't you dare point at me and tell me I'm a cop out. It's highly insulting and most definitely unwarranted.
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Postby Pril » Thu May 26, 2005 5:53 pm

Birile wrote:
Nurpy Fuzzyfeet wrote:The Age of MUD is gone blah blah blah, is just a cop out for those not willing to put forth that effort.


Riiiight... I'll be right back, I gotta go round up all of my friends who are playing WoW and EQ and let them know text is where it's at.

And while I'm at it, I gotta go tell my boss that I would rather put forth the effort to better a MUD's pbase than do my work. And tonight, I gotta tell my daughter to forego dinner and quality time with Daddy because I'm busy with the MUD. And my romantic getaway? I'll cancel it, saving this MUD is far too important and I'm tired of copping out. You're absolutely right. It's no big deal, I'm sure my boss, my daughter and my boyfriend will understand.

Be right back...

:roll:

Don't get me wrong, I do agree with some of what you say, but don't you dare point at me and tell me I'm a cop out. It's highly insulting and most definitely unwarranted.


While i agree with ya Birile pointing at you and saying yer a cop out is wrong cuz i know how much time you've put into the mud here are some solutions. Have your daughter, boyfriend, and boss start mudding :p

*ruffle*

Pril
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Postby Selzan » Thu May 26, 2005 9:53 pm

Nurpy Fuzzyfeet wrote:The Age of MUD is gone blah blah blah, is just a cop out for those not willing to put forth that effort. Muds are still as addictive today as they were 10 years ago, they haven't changed much.


It's not quite that simple. Simply put, the elements of effort and addiction only go so far. The problem with Toril has been -- and will continue to be -- the carebear culture that has been imposed on its playerbase. This culture comes from the top down, and has quite literally stripped this game of much of its sex appeal (i.e., competition, challenge, intense rivalries and politics).

Change has been implemented at a snail's pace, and little to nothing has been done to retain the older/hardcore playerbase (sorry, but two or three 50+ zones over a 5 year span do not constitute a meaningful change -- Homeland Merger is a start, but it's only that ... a start).

I know and understand that people have RL things going on -- I have a ton of responsibility myself, and do not cast blame on anyone in that respect. However, the fact is that there are some easy changes that can be implemented (see below) to recreate some of the old allure. Until then, I suspect myself (and many others) will be spending their time on things such as WoW, EQ2, or just plain AFK'ing, to avoid the frustration of waiting 3 years for Erlan, 4 years for Tiamat, etc...

So where does this bring us, other than my rather bitter and disgruntled post? Well, it brings us back round circle to some ideas that have been offered as possible solutions since the most successful incarnation of this MUD was shutdown... and I'm guessing you know where this is headed:

* Artifacts
* Guild wars
* Invasion Races
* Intricate God quests assigned to individual guilds
* True lvl 50+ areas that can be done in 3-4 hours
* Tiamat (yeah... I know)
* ... and dare I say Kingdom Code

The bottom line here is that I'm sure there are plenty of devoted folks who might still find the urge to play here, but the MUD, currently, offers them little satisfaction (and yes, I'm admittedly one of those players). Would these suggestions change the MUD in the long term? No, probably not. But at least they would bring a fresh face to the MUD and provide an incentive for people to advance their characters, whether as a leader, as a quester, or as a Roleplayer (I'm sorry, but "rewards" such as Restrings (snooze) just aren't going to instill that level of excitement).

Some of those comments have been a long time coming. This game will always hold a special place in my heart, but it just hasn't lived up to its potential. If the Gods want to make a sincere effort to rebuild, they can start by trying to reclaim some of their oldest players which have only left in the past year or two. I'm betting most of us still keep in touch with many others who have quit, and word of mouth travels fast.

Just my thoughts ... take them for what you will.
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Postby kiryan » Thu May 26, 2005 10:23 pm

you know what revitalized my mudding experience? joining a guild.

however, now im mostly resting on my laurels hoping that something, like tiamat, will come back in this year and rekindle the fire.
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Postby Botef » Thu May 26, 2005 11:03 pm

Selzan wrote:
Nurpy Fuzzyfeet wrote:The Age of MUD is gone blah blah blah, is just a cop out for those not willing to put forth that effort. Muds are still as addictive today as they were 10 years ago, they haven't changed much.


It's not quite that simple. Simply put, the elements of effort and addiction only go so far. The problem with Toril has been -- and will continue to be -- the carebear culture that has been imposed on its playerbase. This culture comes from the top down, and has quite literally stripped this game of much of its sex appeal (i.e., competition, challenge, intense rivalries and politics).

.


Heh from what I've seen to carry a large Pbase you need your mud to be confusing, ugly as hell, and very very friendly to newbiws. Frankly, I think the whole concept that our pbase is low because of things being too 'easy' from the top down is hogwash, simply because thats an opinion OLD players hold who have years of experience and game knowledge, not new players which is what we really need. New players find this mud to be challenging enough. Want more challenge? Play a character with the starting eq instead of power leveling with top-tier stuff. Learning your classes skills, learning the areas, learning how to xp as a group - those challeneges are still plentiful to new players.

I still think a lack of a 'middle ground' is our biggest flaw. The new players who do make it (As in zone frequently) are generally ones who are fortunate enough to: Get decked out with nice eq, get power-leveled, get into zone groups early and really get hooked.

The rest reach 20ish and drop out of view. Looking back to last June when I came back to play about 3 of the 7 or 8 new players that started the same time as me are till around. Xilissisix plays, Gukov sometimes logs but not much. The rest, Tasez, Ardulzahn, Ezwar, Sedek and a few others reached the mid-lvl game, got bored, and left.

The key to retaining new players is to get them involved early.

Soon as they hit 20, take them out a bit and show them around.

Soon as they hit 30, try and incorporate them into your xp groups regardless of how much you might lose. Also, take them 'zoning'. Despite the fact that they probably won't 'need' any of the eq from these smaller zones (Westfalls, AV, Laby, Etc) they gain zoning experience.

It really irks me when people complain about level 50 newbs getting groups killed or not knowing there way around. Most of the time, its only because nobody took the time to show them whats expected of there class. These are things people should honestly understand by 30th but something that doesnt have any emphasis because Xp'ing to zoneable lvl is top priority.



HOWEVER, Your right Selzan, new features are a must - because that will honestly do more to maintain our pbase at the moment IMO. I'd hate to see this MUD end up like Zone Runner: TDome X. An awesome mud with average pbase of 0-5 people.


Id really like to see:

Guild Wars - Or Race Wars (Competing for 'control' of zones / !statless items)

Player Instigated Hometown Invasions, & Disruption of 'life' for opposing races.

God run quests, zones, wars.

PvP Zones

Economic System that puts more value on plats - In otherwords more plat sinks, and more ways to earn plats. (Killing/Auction Selling is boring as hell)

I still think some kind of Pkill could do a lot as well...Again, not mindless how many frags do I have now pkill.

Maybe haves gods run 'wars' between guilds/races/groups in which people can opt to join or not. It would be very easy to create a PvP style zone in which EQ could still be rewarded for the winning group.
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Postby Corth » Thu May 26, 2005 11:24 pm

Somewhere between what Selzan and Ambar said is the truth of the matter...

And the real pisser about the 'care bear' attitude is that most of the truly competitive players have long since left, leaving a bunch of wussies who actually enjoy the exp grind on their 15th character. Its at the point that I would be happy if Mystra suddenly appeared in all of her glory and took over.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

Goddamned slippery mage.
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Postby Selias » Fri May 27, 2005 3:47 am

I've been here for a while, and seen a lot of closings, sitebans, growth, etc. Right now the pbase is in a slow decline. Yes - visual MMORPGs have taken a lot of people, but even those that love this mud are leaving.

I feel it's just because there isn't much to do. You either zone, or quest. Most quests are too long and involved for the average player to do. That leaves zoning. Well that's only if you're level 41+, and only if there are enough people on, and only if you get invited, etc.

It's very hard logging in and having nothing to do. Personally I log in, do a quick who, check my mudmail, say hi to guildmates, then log off, b/c there's nothing for me to do.

A solution? Plat sinks, rewards for prestige. Mentoring even! Make it so that a lvl 50 char will want to group with a lvl 15 char as a mentor, so that the lvl 50 can get enough prestige to buy a house somewhere.

This is a great mud... 100x better than any other mud I've played, but there just aren't enough options for the casual player.
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Postby Thilindel » Fri May 27, 2005 4:57 am

Selias wrote:This is a great mud... 100x better than any other mud I've played, but there just aren't enough options for the casual player.


That's why I take large breaks from here to play Diablo 2, and other games. There's no variance for a class here. All pc's are the same. Only thing you can change are triggers and eq. Hell, there are like 12 types of paladins alone in D2 for example.
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Fri May 27, 2005 5:52 am

Birile wrote:
Nurpy Fuzzyfeet wrote:The Age of MUD is gone blah blah blah, is just a cop out for those not willing to put forth that effort.


Riiiight... I'll be right back, I gotta go round up all of my friends who are playing WoW and EQ and let them know text is where it's at.

And while I'm at it, I gotta go tell my boss that I would rather put forth the effort to better a MUD's pbase than do my work. And tonight, I gotta tell my daughter to forego dinner and quality time with Daddy because I'm busy with the MUD. And my romantic getaway? I'll cancel it, saving this MUD is far too important and I'm tired of copping out. You're absolutely right. It's no big deal, I'm sure my boss, my daughter and my boyfriend will understand.

Be right back...

:roll:

Don't get me wrong, I do agree with some of what you say, but don't you dare point at me and tell me I'm a cop out. It's highly insulting and most definitely unwarranted.


Birile, do you think muders before you didn't have lives? Do you think that there aren't people these days that aren't in the same position you were when your life wasn't as complicated as it is now? It's not all about you, it's not all about middle-aged people with children. Not saying that people like that can't help but, they aren't exactly prime candidates. There are people that can afford and enjoy investing time into a project like this, probably in the same position you were in 10? years ago. You just have to attract and utilize them.


Selias wrote:This is a great mud... 100x better than any other mud I've played, but there just aren't enough options for the casual player.


Indeed. This is where the staff comes in.


I'm not saying it would be easy, it would take a huge staff/player effort to rejuvenate this place to its former 200-300+ pbase. Will it happen? Probably not. But there is a chance.

People have lots of good ideas to increase the pbase, but they are just ideas unless they get staff attention.

Btw, Birile I wasn't intentionally selecting you out or calling anyone a copout, no need to get all pissy. I said a very general statement.
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Postby Raiwen » Fri May 27, 2005 2:28 pm

Yesterday, we had a new player enter the mud as a dwarf cleric.

Talona welcomed him to the mud over nhc.

I and many others welcomed him, and tried to help him as best we could.

He seemed to the like RP style, scardale, and how the fountain randomly casts spells on you.

However... he asked about pkill.

We told him about the arena, and then he asked if you could loot player corpses.

After he got our answer, he must have made up his mind, because he quit.

So.. what about pkill grids? Or in the arena where you can take a scalp of Nurpy or something? Or race wars?

I think pkill needs to be level dependant if a grid is created.. that also brings up the idea of level restricted equipment.

why level dependant pkill and equipment?

Pkill is biased against the new players. the older players have the best gear, and a new player must rely on luck in order to kill an older player. In a true pkill grid, I'd have stone and heal potions, detect invis potions, gear that helps me sense life, prot-fire,cold,acid,gas gear, etc. A newbie can compete against this? With level restricted equipment, you wouldn't have to worry so much about the uber gear aspect.

I know pkill has never been an integral part of this mud, and I personally would hate to always be looking over my shoulder. However, something needs to be added. Arena pkill is not enough. It's a great time killer, and has some bragging rights, but that's about it.

So what about the race wars?

Nuggog wants to sack waterdeep, and he still has Anab's waterdeep flag that will be waved in mockery when it's done. If some of this stuff can be implemented, imagine how much fun it would be?

I remember the invasions of WD in the past... of the orcs, and of the undead. EVERYONE had a great time. Imagine how much fun if the players were actually part of the plan?
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Postby Nilan » Fri May 27, 2005 4:42 pm

If this mud went pkill I know for a fact I wouldn't play here. Pkill is not something I wish to play after a long days work, nor is dealing with the juvenile/high school attitudes that pkill breeds.

I play to have fun with friends, do quests, enjoy my evening, adventure and role play. Not have to be looking over my shoulder for the first loser that doesnt like me to sit outside the inn or some zone to kill me over and over and over again cause for whatever lame reason they dont particularly like me.

pkill muds and pkill in general breed alot of lameness attitudes and not something I feel like dealing with after I get off work. Just my opinion.

Nilan
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Stabby
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Fri May 27, 2005 4:52 pm

Nilan wrote:If this mud went pkill I know for a fact I wouldn't play here. Pkill is not something I wish to play after a long days work, nor is dealing with the juvenile/high school attitudes that pkill breeds.

I play to have fun with friends, do quests, enjoy my evening, adventure and role play. Not have to be looking over my shoulder for the first loser that doesnt like me to sit outside the inn or some zone to kill me over and over and over again cause for whatever lame reason they dont particularly like me.

pkill muds and pkill in general breed alot of lameness attitudes and not something I feel like dealing with after I get off work. Just my opinion.

Nilan
aka
Stabby


I think raiwen has something in mind alot more controlled than that. Mindless pkill where you wait for people to spawn so you can stab/bash/etc them again is not a pbase increasing idea =p

My idea would be something like an area you can go to to pkill, (note rogues, illusionists and a couple other classes would have to balanced out before any pk contest would be implemented) to not lose your corpse, or precious exp, or anything like that. But, by winning, you get to win prizes based on your level. Potions maybe, arrows, certain scrolls, a badge for bragging rights, I don't know.

It's a neat idea, but I don't think it will be implemented any time soon, as it seems our plate is already stacked 3 high and overflowing at the edges.
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Postby Raiwen » Fri May 27, 2005 5:05 pm

Nurpy is right. I don't want all out pkill either, Nilan. I'd hate that. But wouldn't it be nice to be able to have an XP zone that was also pkill? If you do kill someone there, maybe you get to keep their scalp? If you don't want to risk dying to some hidden rogue, then don't go there.

I'd really.. REALLY like to see race wars. I'm not sure of the logistics behind it, but just the idea makes my toes tingle.
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Postby Botef » Fri May 27, 2005 6:46 pm

I've seen Pkill that worked...But nearly 100% of the people here assume pkill = duris style anything goes killing.

The muds I've played that had functional pkill had checks and balances to make it a undesirable thing to do with any frequency. In otherwords, you kill someone, expect to be hunted down for it both by other players and by mobs, expect to be punsihed with some kind of justice system (More then just xp lose) and was very RP/Guild comp oriented.

However for that to ever function here, it would have to be !loot since this game revolved around EQ collection and survival is nye impossible without it.


I think if anything PvP zones or Guild vs Guild zones could do a lot. Competing for control of a 'castle' or something would prompt players to stay online to protect their assests being taken by someone else, not to mention bring competition back between players and guilds alike.

Out right frag pkill, where the goal is to have the most kills, has no place here.
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Postby Raiwen » Fri May 27, 2005 7:05 pm

Botef wrote:I think if anything PvP zones or Guild vs Guild zones could do a lot. Competing for control of a 'castle' or something would prompt players to stay online to protect their assests being taken by someone else, not to mention bring competition back between players and guilds alike.

This is exactly what I had in mind.
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Postby malakwee » Fri May 27, 2005 8:54 pm

Another scenario i would consider a problem is getting a decent group to get from level 20 to level 26

With scardale in game getting to 20 is much easier for new players thanks to the imms.

But getting to 26 will require group especially for certain classes. And personally it is the level that most people ask other people to help them with.

Newcomers will seldom enjoy this luxury... hence exping can be a pain. I tried to get group as an enchanter and for almost one week i ended up soloing mostly to get to 21 and now that i am 21 i still face problem to get a group to continue on. Imagine how it is for newcomers...

I suggest

1) purchasable tankable pets or familiars - tho there are pet shops in WD for instance, the best u can get is an 80hp panther... make it have 300hp or more instead so that i could decently help casters tank ... and make it expensive so it is something people would consider only as an alternative to the conventional grouping

2) balance certain caster classes' spells to allow em to be able to solo better at below 26.

I actually have typed a long post before this post but by the time i submitted i lost the message since it was asking me to reenter my login lol... and am lazy to give examples again. anyway... that is just what i think.

Regards
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Fri May 27, 2005 10:48 pm

malakwee wrote:Another scenario i would consider a problem is getting a decent group to get from level 20 to level 26

With scardale in game getting to 20 is much easier for new players thanks to the imms.

But getting to 26 will require group especially for certain classes. And personally it is the level that most people ask other people to help them with.

Newcomers will seldom enjoy this luxury... hence exping can be a pain. I tried to get group as an enchanter and for almost one week i ended up soloing mostly to get to 21 and now that i am 21 i still face problem to get a group to continue on. Imagine how it is for newcomers...

I suggest

1) purchasable tankable pets or familiars - tho there are pet shops in WD for instance, the best u can get is an 80hp panther... make it have 300hp or more instead so that i could decently help casters tank ... and make it expensive so it is something people would consider only as an alternative to the conventional grouping
2) balance certain caster classes' spells to allow em to be able to solo better at below 26.

I actually have typed a long post before this post but by the time i submitted i lost the message since it was asking me to reenter my login lol... and am lazy to give examples again. anyway... that is just what i think.

Regards


New players can't buy expensive stuff.
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Postby sok » Sat May 28, 2005 2:54 am

Selzan wrote:
Nurpy Fuzzyfeet wrote:The Age of MUD is gone blah blah blah, is just a cop out for those not willing to put forth that effort. Muds are still as addictive today as they were 10 years ago, they haven't changed much.


It's not quite that simple. Simply put, the elements of effort and addiction only go so far. The problem with Toril has been -- and will continue to be -- the carebear culture that has been imposed on its playerbase. This culture comes from the top down, and has quite literally stripped this game of much of its sex appeal (i.e., competition, challenge, intense rivalries and politics).

Change has been implemented at a snail's pace, and little to nothing has been done to retain the older/hardcore playerbase (sorry, but two or three 50+ zones over a 5 year span do not constitute a meaningful change -- Homeland Merger is a start, but it's only that ... a start).

I know and understand that people have RL things going on -- I have a ton of responsibility myself, and do not cast blame on anyone in that respect. However, the fact is that there are some easy changes that can be implemented (see below) to recreate some of the old allure. Until then, I suspect myself (and many others) will be spending their time on things such as WoW, EQ2, or just plain AFK'ing, to avoid the frustration of waiting 3 years for Erlan, 4 years for Tiamat, etc...

So where does this bring us, other than my rather bitter and disgruntled post? Well, it brings us back round circle to some ideas that have been offered as possible solutions since the most successful incarnation of this MUD was shutdown... and I'm guessing you know where this is headed:

* Artifacts
* Guild wars
* Invasion Races
* Intricate God quests assigned to individual guilds
* True lvl 50+ areas that can be done in 3-4 hours
* Tiamat (yeah... I know)
* ... and dare I say Kingdom Code

The bottom line here is that I'm sure there are plenty of devoted folks who might still find the urge to play here, but the MUD, currently, offers them little satisfaction (and yes, I'm admittedly one of those players). Would these suggestions change the MUD in the long term? No, probably not. But at least they would bring a fresh face to the MUD and provide an incentive for people to advance their characters, whether as a leader, as a quester, or as a Roleplayer (I'm sorry, but "rewards" such as Restrings (snooze) just aren't going to instill that level of excitement).

Some of those comments have been a long time coming. This game will always hold a special place in my heart, but it just hasn't lived up to its potential. If the Gods want to make a sincere effort to rebuild, they can start by trying to reclaim some of their oldest players which have only left in the past year or two. I'm betting most of us still keep in touch with many others who have quit, and word of mouth travels fast.

Just my thoughts ... take them for what you will.



Dude the idea of getting an artifact would total rekindle my drive

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