optimal race selection debate

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Lahgen
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optimal race selection debate

Postby Lahgen » Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:38 am

Specifically, why people wring their hands over other players choosing less than perfectly optimal race/class choices.

In my experience, it's the afk player or the person who just plain doesn't know what the heck he's doing that is more detrimental to a group than, say, a human warrior who knows what he's doing.

Now, one may argue that the truly dedicated player chooses only those who have done things the optimal way, but as a counterargument, it is possible to do "more with less," as it were.

And who is truly the better player?
Kesena OOC: 'i wish my daddy bought me power tools'
Dorgh group-says 'damn, even with Cofen helping Mori, they STILL can't kill someone
Hekanut says 'I know level doesn't matter much, but most won't take seriously if a level 2 claims to be the best thing before, during, and after sliced bread.'

Rather than seeing "subpar race/class," see "challenge."
Thilindel
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Postby Thilindel » Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:25 am

Sounds like someone's tired of being reminded just how awesome elves are
Lahgen
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Postby Lahgen » Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:26 am

That's part of it, yes.
Kesena OOC: 'i wish my daddy bought me power tools'

Dorgh group-says 'damn, even with Cofen helping Mori, they STILL can't kill someone

Hekanut says 'I know level doesn't matter much, but most won't take seriously if a level 2 claims to be the best thing before, during, and after sliced bread.'



Rather than seeing "subpar race/class," see "challenge."
Sarell
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Postby Sarell » Sun Aug 14, 2005 7:24 am

I think some of the best palyers I have seen don't play optimal race. The difference between a good player and an ordinary one, far outweigh being an elf or human in my experience. At the very top, some races get some nifty tricks that others don't especially if you are into ninja antics.
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Postby Ambar » Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:23 pm

doorbash north

splat!

FUN!
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Postby Salen » Sun Aug 14, 2005 6:49 pm

There aren't very many optimized mages out there I don't think. Almost everyone picked either gnome or elf, and we all know that 'Half' is where it's at.
emote Rescuepractice
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Postby Mitharx » Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:37 pm

I tend to wonder how people can play human enchanters. The amount of spells you must constantly cast combined with the weak mem time just seems insane to me. So, I chose gnome enchanter and I'm glad I did. Now, I know perfectly good human enchanters and they keep up just fine, but it amazes me that they do because my lich has extremely high max_int and tends to mem very very very slowly.

That's why I wonder about it.
malakwee
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Postby malakwee » Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:53 am

Some people play human enchanters mainly because they wish to play both sides of the good-evil coin thing. imho, that would be the main reason.

At least that would be my reason if i play a human caster.
Mitharx
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Postby Mitharx » Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:17 am

Right. But that doesn't explain how they get around the mem time.
Ambar
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Postby Ambar » Mon Aug 15, 2005 3:32 pm

Mitharx wrote:Right. But that doesn't explain how they get around the mem time.

Unless they have played the gnomes and the elves, they don't miss the memtimes or cast-times. The benefits of not having to log your *other* race character may outweigh the negatives to them. My bard is neutral human, and I suffer from a little less mana than my counterparts, and perhaps an extra hit here and there. I personally wouldnt trade it, since I can play either side of the fence. At the high end it really doesnt matter much, a few seconds here and there .. maybe 1 or 2 seconds more on a mem.
Ashiwi
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Postby Ashiwi » Mon Aug 15, 2005 3:46 pm

There are people who have fun playing the "optimal" race/class combo, and people who have fun playing their characters for other reasons. Neither group seems to understand the other, because they're both driven by different needs in the game.
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Lahgen
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Postby Lahgen » Mon Aug 15, 2005 4:12 pm

The problem is not that other people have fun playing optimal choices. The probelm isn't even that they think I'm an idiot for getting tired of elves. The problem is when people are in a position to enforce their opinion, and thus their view gets more time than it should.

Granted, I haven't actually seen anyone lately say "Okay human warrior, get out, my barbwar friend just logged on," but it has happened before, surely.
Kesena OOC: 'i wish my daddy bought me power tools'

Dorgh group-says 'damn, even with Cofen helping Mori, they STILL can't kill someone

Hekanut says 'I know level doesn't matter much, but most won't take seriously if a level 2 claims to be the best thing before, during, and after sliced bread.'



Rather than seeing "subpar race/class," see "challenge."
Nurpy Fuzzyfeet
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Tue Aug 16, 2005 3:20 am

Having leveled a halfling warrior to 50, and zoned many times, I KNOW it's the player that makes the character, not the race.

Learn the intricacies of your race and how they correspond with your class, and it doesn't matter what race you choose.

Race/Class limitations that are set in the game restrict anyone from rolling a completely useless character, anyway.
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Dalar
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Postby Dalar » Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:15 pm

Nurpy Fuzzyfeet wrote:Having leveled a halfling warrior to 50, and zoned many times, I KNOW it's the player that makes the character, not the race.

Learn the intricacies of your race and how they correspond with your class, and it doesn't matter what race you choose.

Race/Class limitations that are set in the game restrict anyone from rolling a completely useless character, anyway.


Elf warrior > all. A year ago, they were one of the only classes to get the lowest AC due to racial agi. This may not be true with any new maxagi items in game. The way the game is set up, if you have blur with max AC and have elven agility, you can't be hit unless some retarded illusionist displaces you.

How to play a warrior:
Know when not to rescue. If you have 4+ npcs, try not to rescue anyone. You should have two other tanks to help.
Wear as much AC as you can until you are max. Count up to 200. Damage mitigation is much better than having HPs.
The rescue macro. If you're completely lazy like I am, make a macro to rescue your entire group. Start with the healers in HP order (highest to lowest), then int casters (lowest to highest). Hit it about every combat round or two.
Ruxur
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Postby Ruxur » Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:35 pm

Dalar wrote:
Nurpy Fuzzyfeet wrote:Having leveled a halfling warrior to 50, and zoned many times, I KNOW it's the player that makes the character, not the race.

Learn the intricacies of your race and how they correspond with your class, and it doesn't matter what race you choose.

Race/Class limitations that are set in the game restrict anyone from rolling a completely useless character, anyway.


Elf warrior > all. A year ago, they were one of the only classes to get the lowest AC due to racial agi. This may not be true with any new maxagi items in game. The way the game is set up, if you have blur with max AC and have elven agility, you can't be hit unless some retarded illusionist displaces you.

How to play a warrior:
Know when not to rescue. If you have 4+ npcs, try not to rescue anyone. You should have two other tanks to help.
Wear as much AC as you can until you are max. Count up to 200. Damage mitigation is much better than having HPs.
The rescue macro. If you're completely lazy like I am, make a macro to rescue your entire group. Start with the healers in HP order (highest to lowest), then int casters (lowest to highest). Hit it about every combat round or two.


for every situation there is a type of warrior. I would not want to deal with an elf warrior in situations where lots of bashing of different types of mobs were concerned. Furthermore do not play elf if you do not have the hitpoints eq, elf warriors are very eq dependant and you cannot afford hit/damage eq. You literally have to be a meatshield.

dwarves are great well rounded tanks that can be used in any situation. Drwarves are not as eq dependant as an elf is.

barbs are great because of the equipment you can get to notch thier stats easily.

Paladins are great in situations where you dont need a basher/warrior. Yes i know a paladin has the bash skill, but if a paladin is dismounted he ceases to be a tank, hes more like a shaman with -100 ac and a defensive skill here and there. I would also say that paladins should wear hitpoints and ac gear as well as elf's.
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