Evil Humans grouping with Evil Races

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Ragorn
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Postby Ragorn » Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:20 pm

Dalar wrote:If I had to choose a warrior, I'd pick a yuan-ti. They agi almost as good as elves and much better con.


Out of curiosity, why? Is the slot loss worth the con? Assuming you build a Warrior as a tank, and not a half-assed melee damage dealer, wouldn't you be better off with Elf agi and the extra slots for hit point items, rather than the nominally higher con and useless innates on the snake?
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Postby Elet » Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:26 pm

Ragorn wrote:
Dalar wrote:If I had to choose a warrior, I'd pick a yuan-ti. They agi almost as good as elves and much better con.


Out of curiosity, why? Is the slot loss worth the con? Assuming you build a Warrior as a tank, and not a half-assed melee damage dealer, wouldn't you be better off with Elf agi and the extra slots for hit point items, rather than the nominally higher con and useless innates on the snake?


imho i think the tail slot might have counter that missing slot problem. plus at level 50 i think they get -30ac with scale skin not sure bout the hit/dam with vipermind

my 2 cents :)
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Postby Dalar » Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:51 pm

2 maxcon notches at 110 i think and their agi is only two off. you can get -160 AC with 119 agi on a yuanti. Also, scaleskin is 35 ac.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Ragorn » Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:06 pm

And the loss of legs, ears, and boots, plus the small size isn't a big consideration?
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Postby Pril » Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:19 pm

well how many hps do you lose with those slots? ac isn't a factor cuz of snakeskin. Also how many saves/prots do you lose?
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Postby Dalar » Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:31 pm

I didn't really care since I had a dragonkind. Suckers!
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Dalar » Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:32 pm

Ragorn wrote:And the loss of legs, ears, and boots, plus the small size isn't a big consideration?

Small size? i thought elves and yuan-ti were both around the same height so it doesn't really matter. you can use reduction rings to manipulate the percentages on enlarge/reduce.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Birile » Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:20 pm

I propose we get rid of the terms "goodrace" and "evilrace" because it's clear that neither side is mature enough to realize the whole point of the racewars was frigging ROLEPLAY. Stop taking this shyt personally, it's a game.

Some of us have played with both the goodraces and the evilraces and know that they both have their strengths and weaknesses and each outshines the other in different circumstances.

My seven-year-old is more mature than the good majority of you--especially the ones who think "He's not talking about me."
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Postby Hsoj » Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:43 pm

ok really, you aren't talking about me right?
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Postby Ragorn » Wed Oct 05, 2005 9:05 pm

Dalar wrote:
Ragorn wrote:And the loss of legs, ears, and boots, plus the small size isn't a big consideration?

Small size? i thought elves and yuan-ti were both around the same height so it doesn't really matter. you can use reduction rings to manipulate the percentages on enlarge/reduce.


Shit, I don't know, I'm asking you :D I've never heard anyone talk about Yuan-ti unless they were bitching about them, it's news to me to hear that Yuan-ti make good warriors. Especially on the evil side, where you've got trolls.
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Postby Shaiith » Wed Oct 05, 2005 11:29 pm

Dalar wrote:2 maxcon notches at 110 i think and their agi is only two off. you can get -160 AC with 119 agi on a yuanti. Also, scaleskin is 35 ac.


It's not often that you're wrong, but you have an error above. I do agree that yuan can make an awesome tank. My issue with yuan-ti warriors is that I'd rather not count on tia eq for my prots, and the lack of ears makes covering a pesky prot hole hard. They're hands down the best evil race tank, and a one of the best overall choices (I'd still go elf).

correction:
yuan only have one reachable maxcon notch at 106.
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Postby Shaiith » Wed Oct 05, 2005 11:42 pm

Pril wrote:well how many hps do you lose with those slots? ac isn't a factor cuz of snakeskin. Also how many saves/prots do you lose?


hp?

Think studded diamond ring on tail.

saves/prots?

This is where it hurts. One of the more workable prot combos would be the cute tail ring + spob plate (counting on spob plate, heh). Saves can be found, but having only 17 slots means that you only need to find 17 items, not 20. This is an easier task, the player just has to be a bit more careful about item selection.
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Postby Lilira » Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:46 am

What a lovely thing to see first thing in the morning... (grin)

< 113h/459H 482p/482P 122v/122V >
< P: std > who evil
Listing of the Staff
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
<None>

There are 0 visible staff member(s) on.

Listing of the Mortals!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
[50 Cle] Disoputlip (Duergar)
[50 Inv] Jaznolg Zra'Taeriz * Chaos of Sorcere (Drow Elf)
[50 Lic] Zarel * Death Incarnate * Malevolent Order (Drow Elf)
[47 Sha] Dubuk (Ogre)
[50 Rog] Nilan ShadowStalker *Velg'larn* Treachery's Blade (Drow Elf) (RP)
[50 Sha] Mertak * Mystic * Malevolent Order (Orc) (RP)
[50 Inv] Rrassassoz (Yuan-Ti)

There are 7 mortal(s) on.

Total visible players: 7.
Record number of players on this boot: 71.


There were more, but the log buffer I have is WAY short and it didn't occur to me to post til I had some coffee...
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Postby Kegor » Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:52 am

Jenera wrote:I agree with Sarell in his last post. I remember one instance when, I forget who, an evil asked me for help in doing a zone or a spellquest. Actually, I think it may have been when Ambar was finishing fire embody for her goody but it was a group of evils and she was on as her cleric. I remember dying, as with several others and I had no spare pff gear so I specifically asked whoever was leading in tells and in gsay to please cast pff on me or at least heal me after being told to relocate back in. I was ignored and I died again. AFterwards, people in the group commented about how I was a goodie anyway so it didn't matter. Granted it may have been joking around, but it still hit a nerve. Apparently I was needed in said group, otherwise I would not have been asked to help. It's experiences like that that certainly don't want me to roll up an evil or even assist evils who need another invoker in the long run. In my nearly 10 years of mudding, that has never happened in a goodie zone/spellquest group. I honestly believe for the evils to bounce back from their stalemate, certain attitudes need to change, though it really isn't my place to say. It kind of reminds me of a historical novel I read recently where a group of people were so bent on harnessing the best qualities in people and thought they were the chosen of their god, they got so tunnel-visioned in their beliefs that they died off. Enough with the evils v. goodies. Enough with which side is better. That's what's causing it. We're all players, most of us have spent a better part of our lives on this game and for a reason. Enough with this goodie race is better than this evil race and vice versa.


You needn't be so judgemental or stereotypical over the way one or two players have acted towards you in the past, evil or good. If that was the case, you would hate playing goodrace, too, because there are way more goodies with attitudes than evils just due to the simple fact there are more people in general over there. I have met lots of players with bad attitudes all across the board. In a lot of circumstances I found that these people were just having a bad day or got frustrated etc and actually turned out to be very cool people.

Anyways, just wanted to dispel the thinking that evils are assholes. Nothing could be further from the truth.

*Zoom
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Postby Kegor » Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:16 pm

Dalar wrote:Also, to all you people saying "omg I had a bad experience with evils and I never will again", that was probably Cherzra and Jaznolg. I took the time to go evil for a few months and I had some opposition from the beginning, but I told them to fuck off and played with the cool people like Zoldren. When you actually level up and are at zoning level they will care less.


Bah, how you gunna do me like that? Sure I was a bit of an ass like 4 years ago when I would ream people for fucking up. I like to think that I have evolved a lot since then and have a much more constructive way of input for people on improving thier game. Many people have benifted from playing evil and took an excellerated learning curve from my leadership over the years. Half of them took it to the other side of the tracks and never came back, but what can you do?

You were in a CC group I lead a couple hours before I posted this just now you wanker. :p

---

Also, I forget the exact quote and I'm not gunna dig for it, but one of Kiryan's posts about evil leadership kind of rubbed me the wrong way. You did a good thing for a lot of people after taking your advanced class lessons to the good side bro, but I think you forget where you come from.

I dunno, it's all the same game anyways. Just more challenging and agrivating for those that want to be purely evil. I am not one of those people (anymore).

* Zoom
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Postby Yayaril » Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:34 pm

8)

Looks like us goodies are on the verge of winning the racewar as the evils are almost totally extinct. I'll pour the wine!
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Postby Ambar » Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:05 pm

Man I miss CC :(

all the best buttheads in the game, some of the better players I have seen YET

*sigh*

wuv ya Jaz!

random CC guildmate tells you 'Ambar. I'm having girl troubles .. again'

sigh .. miss my brothers!

good times good times
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Postby Jenera » Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:55 pm

I'm sorry if I sounded judgemental, Jaznolg, that wasn't my intention. I thought I was merely talking about a personal experience of mine. But then I reread my post and realized I did sound like some pompous ass. Sorry to anybody I may have insulted, wasn't my intention.
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Postby Ruxur » Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:26 pm

Hsoj wrote:
Ruxur wrote:Fatah, first off you have no clue about the evil races here, you werent here you dont know why there defunct.


I wasn't here when? and why are they defunct?


evil races are defunct due to sevral issues. changes in equipment, the ip ban of an entire country, and some people left the game that were considered vital to the evil race way of life. Things would pick up if people like Blung, Zoldren, anyway you get the picture. People went bye bye, they no longer wished to play here for one reason or another. The people that were left behind, myself included, still wanted to play here. I went to the goodie side as Maxler.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:37 pm

Ruxur wrote:
Hsoj wrote:
Ruxur wrote:Fatah, first off you have no clue about the evil races here, you werent here you dont know why there defunct.


I wasn't here when? and why are they defunct?


evil races are defunct due to sevral issues. changes in equipment, the ip ban of an entire country, and some people left the game that were considered vital to the evil race way of life. Things would pick up if people like Blung, Zoldren, anyway you get the picture. People went bye bye, they no longer wished to play here for one reason or another. The people that were left behind, myself included, still wanted to play here. I went to the goodie side as Maxler.



So, you like evils, and you'd love for it to pick back up again, right?

And to help, you play your goodie instead, right.

Wait a minute, how's that work again? That doesn't do anything but continue the vicious cycle that's there. Way to help the problem.
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Postby Dalar » Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:41 pm

Shaiith wrote:
Dalar wrote:2 maxcon notches at 110 i think and their agi is only two off. you can get -160 AC with 119 agi on a yuanti. Also, scaleskin is 35 ac.


It's not often that you're wrong, but you have an error above. I do agree that yuan can make an awesome tank. My issue with yuan-ti warriors is that I'd rather not count on tia eq for my prots, and the lack of ears makes covering a pesky prot hole hard. They're hands down the best evil race tank, and a one of the best overall choices (I'd still go elf).

correction:
yuan only have one reachable maxcon notch at 106.

i thought there was one at 101 and 109ish. try using a spob platemail and amethyst belt.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Pril » Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:42 pm

Arilin Nydelahar wrote:
Ruxur wrote:
Hsoj wrote:
Ruxur wrote:Fatah, first off you have no clue about the evil races here, you werent here you dont know why there defunct.


I wasn't here when? and why are they defunct?


evil races are defunct due to sevral issues. changes in equipment, the ip ban of an entire country, and some people left the game that were considered vital to the evil race way of life. Things would pick up if people like Blung, Zoldren, anyway you get the picture. People went bye bye, they no longer wished to play here for one reason or another. The people that were left behind, myself included, still wanted to play here. I went to the goodie side as Maxler.



So, you like evils, and you'd love for it to pick back up again, right?

And to help, you play your goodie instead, right.

Wait a minute, how's that work again? That doesn't do anything but continue the vicious cycle that's there. Way to help the problem.


I'm fine with giving Maxler back! :p
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Postby Dalar » Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:44 pm

Arilin Nydelahar wrote:
Ruxur wrote:
Hsoj wrote:
Ruxur wrote:Fatah, first off you have no clue about the evil races here, you werent here you dont know why there defunct.


I wasn't here when? and why are they defunct?


evil races are defunct due to sevral issues. changes in equipment, the ip ban of an entire country, and some people left the game that were considered vital to the evil race way of life. Things would pick up if people like Blung, Zoldren, anyway you get the picture. People went bye bye, they no longer wished to play here for one reason or another. The people that were left behind, myself included, still wanted to play here. I went to the goodie side as Maxler.



So, you like evils, and you'd love for it to pick back up again, right?

And to help, you play your goodie instead, right.

Wait a minute, how's that work again? That doesn't do anything but continue the vicious cycle that's there. Way to help the problem.


he just said if more people played it'd be better. i don't think he said anything about wanting evils to come back
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:50 pm

Dalar wrote:
Arilin Nydelahar wrote:
Ruxur wrote:evil races are defunct due to sevral issues. changes in equipment, the ip ban of an entire country, and some people left the game that were considered vital to the evil race way of life. Things would pick up if people like Blung, Zoldren, anyway you get the picture. People went bye bye, they no longer wished to play here for one reason or another. The people that were left behind, myself included, still wanted to play here. I went to the goodie side as Maxler.



So, you like evils, and you'd love for it to pick back up again, right?

And to help, you play your goodie instead, right.

Wait a minute, how's that work again? That doesn't do anything but continue the vicious cycle that's there. Way to help the problem.


he just said if more people played it'd be better. i don't think he said anything about wanting evils to come back



Which is why I started the post with a question. I could be completely wrong, maybe he doesn't care to play evil anymore. If so my comment is moot, but that's not that way I took the post.
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Postby Dalar » Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:53 pm

Let me ask you this then. How did your monobrow take the post?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:56 pm

Dalar wrote:Let me ask you this then. How did your monobrow take the post?


It laughed, and then it cried. It thought it was a very touching post.
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Postby Shaiith » Thu Oct 06, 2005 9:31 pm

Dalar wrote:
Shaiith wrote:
Dalar wrote:2 maxcon notches at 110 i think and their agi is only two off. you can get -160 AC with 119 agi on a yuanti. Also, scaleskin is 35 ac.


It's not often that you're wrong, but you have an error above. I do agree that yuan can make an awesome tank. My issue with yuan-ti warriors is that I'd rather not count on tia eq for my prots, and the lack of ears makes covering a pesky prot hole hard. They're hands down the best evil race tank, and a one of the best overall choices (I'd still go elf).

correction:
yuan only have one reachable maxcon notch at 106.

i thought there was one at 101 and 109ish. try using a spob platemail and amethyst belt.


You thought wrong. NO race has notches within 8 points of each other (except below 100). I'll bet giving you all my eq versus a "real" tiamat item (no treasure, quiver, etc). Sure it's probably maybe not worth it, but having all my alts naked should give you some pleasure as you sneer from afar.

The yuan notches that I know of (in order) that affect hp past 100 are 106, 130 and 156. Make any bet you want that goes against that statement (2 notches below 110 or one at 101 and 109 or something else) and I'll take it.

Now stfu or take the damn bet!
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Postby kitze » Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:22 pm

hey shaiith, ease up on dalar. he probably made the mistake of counting the hp from spob plate and amey belt as a max con notch.
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Postby Dalar » Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:27 pm

naw my friend and i were pretty sure it was around 101 and 109 for one race or 101 and 112 (kost cloak/enameled/amethysts) for another, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. i clearly remember having conversations about both yuanti and half-elf but it doesn't appear to be the case.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Ruxur » Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:14 pm

Dalar wrote:he just said if more people played it'd be better. i don't think he said anything about wanting evils to come back


correct! i dont really care if evil races make a come back. For me being an evil wasnt about playing the damn races. It was about the people you got to play with. The only thing that would save them in my opinion is a return of certian players.

as far as evils now a days go, if you wanna be a casual player and soloer, small grouper, stay evil. Theres more opportunity to solo and small group there. But if you want to do the higher end zones, i REALLY suggest rolling a goodie.
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Postby Hsoj » Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:12 pm

that suxors ruxor

i want to do high end zones and i'm staying evil, so you all should convert...

b/c grouping with me is the best ever *nod me*

Where i came from if there was an inbalance like this it was resolved by the gods with increases to the effectivenes of the races w/ lower numbers.
BUT
that was pkill and this isn't... so I don't think any intervention will occur
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Postby Shaiith » Sat Oct 08, 2005 3:22 am

kitze wrote:hey shaiith, ease up on dalar. he probably made the mistake of counting the hp from spob plate and amey belt as a max con notch.


It's Dalar. Do you know how rare it is that he's wrong? And how hard he rides others the rest of the time? Give me my moment in the sun before things revert.
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Postby Vigis » Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:21 am

Good job Shaiith! Now tomorrow the sun will rise in the west and set in the east. . .soo much for waking up on time :P
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Postby Tasan » Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:54 am

Jaznolg wrote:I would like to point out for all of you that lack of good leaders for evils is not the problem here. It is lack of players in general. A numerous variant amount of players that have been to the zone you are leading at least 5x and know exactly what they are doing. Evils do not have this, and probably never will.

Oldschool evils of the past have usually ended up quitting during slow times. Some of them return and take a look at the who list once and say 'fuck it' and roll a goodie. Cuz thats where the zoning is. That small quantity is replaced with newer players who will never get the zoning frequency of top end zones they need to be considered, in my book, 'an A+ player'.

It's a vicious cycle that goes nowhere. I have seen people pointing at humans this and that for switching from thier evils. That really isn't the problem. The problem is simply just the way it is right now. Way more goodies than evils. How hard is that choice to someone who likes to get groups easier on a group based mud. That would be a good 95% of the mud.

Anyhow, after watching this go on for years and years and more recently worse years... the only solution that I could possibly suggest to fix the balance of evils to goodies is letting all races group together for an undetermined amount of time. If that is too radical a solution to the problem for certain people (which include a couple evil guildies of mine) and a handfull of goodies, then there is no solution. I would be fine with that too. I felt we lost the battle there despite a lot of peoples best efforts. I am rolling good race chars myself to continue to enjoy the game as members of my guild have already.

Well there's my book of a post to continue off of this big dramatic subject that I am surprised has attracted so much attention and inquiry for once.

Evils are only the best races in the game for zoning with, maybe they should be a minority and thus not allowed to zone seriously without miracle rare load who list that has little experience in top end zones. I dunno.

* Zoom


You could try not claiming things too...
Danahg tells you 'yeah, luckily i kept most of it in my mouth and nasal membranes, ugh'

Dlur group-says 'I have a dead horse that I'm dragging down the shaft with my 4 corpses. Anyone want to help me beat it?'

Calladuran: There are other games to play if you want to play with yourself.
Ruxur
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Postby Ruxur » Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:57 am

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWNNNNEEEEED
Cofen group-says 'wtf, why am i missing a cursed khanjari?'

Alendar group-says 'i r rednek i can only afford the monitor i have mud on and the broken monitor under it'

Nonox tells you 'i think someone casted 'power word gay' on pril'

Malacar ASSOC:: 'must... mp...soon...underwear...cringing...at...oncoming...onslaught...'
Sarell
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Postby Sarell » Sat Oct 08, 2005 8:37 am

Before you go claiming that Dalar is wrong man, keep in mind the following two points:

1. Dalar is never wrong.

2. Current Dalar is not the REAL Dalar!!!

PS. Dalar, I reckon doogers > efhr. You get get a lot of healing on khanjari as a dooger due to the increased crits, which is the big heal proc. You do less damage overall, but you do everything else better. Innate enlarge rocks when bad CRs come up.

Tail rings are awesome and often supply more raw HP than the missing slots. Especially for warriors.

Um with regard to people being mean as evils, I was saying I ignored them and kept smiting as people suggested, I like smiting as anything. But it's still more fun grouping with people you know are friendly than ignoring cranky people. And it absoluetly wasn't a one off experience in my time as evils. Still happens when there are only 3 evils on! Bad odds indeed. If you are trying to form a group of 15 to zone and you have to include a couple of people you would rather not - because you know they are giong to annoy others - just to get the group on it's feet it can hurt morale greatly.
Arishae group-says 'mah sunray brings all the boys to the yard'
Shadow Scream
Kegor
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Postby Kegor » Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:14 am

Tasan wrote:You could try not claiming things too...


That was the only time I have ever claimed anything in such a way. You weren't even in that group. There were special circumstances that compelled me to do that even so. I know you, you just like to talk shit and stir things up and pwn people. How many of those rings you got since I found it that day anyways? How bout you Maxler?

In my opinion, you guys take zoning, regularly bidding on top shelf eq, and all that stuff associated with a very large pbase for granted. Then, you to sit there and make snide comments to me without even realizing that I play a different game (more or less) than you do. I make sacrifices to work with the evil player base and continue to play with people I would consider good friends. If you want to criticize me, thats fine. But come with something I can use.

* Zoom
Ruxur
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Postby Ruxur » Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:04 am

your comment to me was that, what would you have me do, bid it out so some noob would get it. Well the only "noobs" in the group were your own guild members. very classy

a week before this, you claimed an amulet of sight

You claiming stuff and slapping your guild in the face (wether they realised it or not) hurts the evil pbase and is just a shitty thing to do.

do you forget that not to long ago i was an evil with you guys? how would i take it for granted when i was there during the decline of evils?

bottom line zoom, it was an underhanded asshatish thing to do, and it caused sevral people that were going to come back and play think better of it. If i remember right Jegzed was in that group, and cancelled his comeback because of that. Just think what could of happened if evils had a real leader like Jegzed? Lord knows they have no real leader now.
Cofen group-says 'wtf, why am i missing a cursed khanjari?'

Alendar group-says 'i r rednek i can only afford the monitor i have mud on and the broken monitor under it'

Nonox tells you 'i think someone casted 'power word gay' on pril'

Malacar ASSOC:: 'must... mp...soon...underwear...cringing...at...oncoming...onslaught...'
Tasan
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Postby Tasan » Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:05 am

Jaznolg wrote: How many of those rings you got since I found it that day anyways? How bout you Maxler?


I have none, cuz I don't claim things, but if I did, I sure as hell wouldn't say my guildies were noob, the ones I supposedly have spent all these "sacrifices" upon. I was pointing out a serious dropoff in the attitude of people that saw that one move as a turning point. If you want to say I take stuff for granted go ahead. You don't play goodie, so you have no idea what I do or what I say. However, I have seen logs, and been in your groups before, and I've heard you talk smack about evils. Seems wrong to me to say you are fostering a good relationship, while in private you are using them.
Danahg tells you 'yeah, luckily i kept most of it in my mouth and nasal membranes, ugh'



Dlur group-says 'I have a dead horse that I'm dragging down the shaft with my 4 corpses. Anyone want to help me beat it?'



Calladuran: There are other games to play if you want to play with yourself.
Kegor
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Postby Kegor » Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:46 am

MAXLER:

Sorry for making you look like a compete incompetent jackass here Maxler.. but I totally discussed the split with my guildies on ACC beforehand. They thought I should have it. They made up the majority of that group by at least 65%. I put it to them. They decided. I liked it.

As far as Jegzed coming back. I know him well and I know how he does RL. It is a similar method of how I do mine. Only difference is, my time is not split between being a major league coder god that has to fix things and make shit better all the time. He is a stand-up guy and an awesome mudder, even better coder and zone writer. What else can I say about him except I didn't think he would raise a big bitchfest on the BBS about it since he hadn't played but 2-4 hours in the last 2 weeks. Let alone 10-24 hours in the past year.

If you have a problem with me I don't really care. Because you sold out evils a long time ago and rarely have shown your evils. You are bigtime goodie leader now that is able to make such snide comments to me now and looks to be the better man for it. Enjoy that dude. Cuz this is a game, and people don't see the real people trying to do real good things behind everything they do in that game. They just see jackasses where they want to. And if they put it to vote.. guess what dude? You win jackassdom way above me. Even if you lead Izans sometimes.

NONOX:

I was not calling most of my guildies newbs there. Only two of them were.
I was mainly refering to the other four unguilded evils in that group that I had only lead into a couple of other zones. I was the only ones leading zones for that time other than a little go at brass or this or that at the time, much like now, so I definately knew who was a newb there and who was not. If I had to appologize to anyone in that zone when we did that there.. it would have been Sarell. Because he probably deserved it almost as much as me. If it would have been a goodie group, he definately would have deserved it more.

What is this crap about using other people? Maybe if you want to put it like that, I do. To go have fun and do zones. To conjure zonable groups out of a nothing six person who evil list and throw a couple humans in the mix? Maybe I do. Maybe if you want to get your facts straight you could ask guildies of mine that have been in my guild for years and years and have eq sets almost the equivilent of good players that have played as long as them.

You are one of those people who lead for a little bit and think they know everything about everything and this game. Let me tell you something dude. You have not played evil significantly. You do not know the way I lead or don't lead. You do not know my guild. And you sure as fuck don't know what you are talking about now. I was thinking you need to take a step back and look at who and what you are talking about before you talk. But that wouldn't matter because you wouldn't have seen it anyways in that step back. And next time I'm leading something and you wanna zone, you will be there, because I asked you to and you know I'm a good leader and a buddy of yours. So STFU and have a great day.

* Zoom
Kegor
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Postby Kegor » Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:01 am

Wow.. sorry for pwning you guys so hard. I had a bit to drink tonight. You know I'm really a fuckup of a leader cuz I like to have a social life and go party on weekends and a lot of other days of the week, run my business, and don't have time to lead zones anymore. But when I do, and I'm the only one doing it for a small handfull of people (mostly friends of mine), I sure don't wanna take shit about it from people who don't know me so good anymore. I do like you guys, and I consider you both friends. But you needed to be straightened out for pointing fingers at me. I do good things. I try to do even better things, but I don't have to take shit from you about it when I do. Peace out.

* Zoom
daggaz
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Postby daggaz » Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:11 am

Handing Out....

I used to zone (thankfully and humbly) with Crimson Coalition almost every single day (this being the mud-reknowned ultra elite evil zoning guild that everybody is talking about when they are talking about the really good mudders of the good-old evil days) and let me tell you something...

Items of importance were CONSTANTLY claimed, or handed out. Only so called 'junk eq' (heh like anything from jot) was ever bidded most of the time. (yeah, most of the time). I never saw anything like that studly diamond ring being found, but I did see Gura (hmm or was it Targsk) claim a surtur. Nobody seems to bitch about that, and of course, they really shouldn't. I certaintly never did. Was glad CC let me in their groups and showed me the upperhand ropes, as I had been gone for more than seven years, was more than glad for the hand-me-downs I got to get my little troll zoneable and able to collect eq to start up ME.

For all the time I been with Jaznolg, I have seen him claim two items of any importance. This amulet of sight, the entire guild was on and we pretty much had to convince him not to bid it amongst ourselves. The diamond ring, same story as far as the people in the guild, in the group. None of us had a problem with him claiming an ultra ultra rare after having led that zone (and countless others) god knows how many times, bidding out the eq and often only getting a few deaths in return. I read the old bitch-and-whine thread on this and it pretty much made me stomach turn.
I dont care if it had been Jaz, Turg, Gura, or any of the other biggerleaders I have followed, people should think twice before turning and snapping like greedy, selfish (and spiteful, flaming, backstabbing) jerks on the folks who have been going out of their way to lead them all this time. And you are still bringing it up. On a totally unrelated thread.

As it is, none of you commenting on this are in our guild, know anything about how our guildies feel (and dont even try and call us all so 'stupid we dont realize how we are being hurt'), so please, I implore you, STFU about things you don't know squat about. I dont go around posting nasty flames about your guilds... dont do it to mine.
Nilan
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Postby Nilan » Sun Oct 09, 2005 6:22 pm

I was a member of Crimson Coalition and I remember the day, you two are coming down on Jaz about. Jaz found the mob, and Daggaz is right we had to convince him to take it for himself. Jaz is one of the best all around leaders on this game. He is a wonderful friend, excellent teacher, very helpful to new players etc....

So stop the flames
Play the game

Nilan
Tasan
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Postby Tasan » Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:09 pm

Simple fact is, people left because of your actions, and people still talk about that. You can justify it all you want, but it doesn't appear everyone agrees with you.

It wasn't a flame, it wasn't calling you out, it was simple true fact.
Danahg tells you 'yeah, luckily i kept most of it in my mouth and nasal membranes, ugh'



Dlur group-says 'I have a dead horse that I'm dragging down the shaft with my 4 corpses. Anyone want to help me beat it?'



Calladuran: There are other games to play if you want to play with yourself.
Ruxur
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Postby Ruxur » Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:16 pm

Nilan wrote: Jaz is one of the best all around leaders on this game.

Nilan


ummmm not even close to being true
Cofen group-says 'wtf, why am i missing a cursed khanjari?'

Alendar group-says 'i r rednek i can only afford the monitor i have mud on and the broken monitor under it'

Nonox tells you 'i think someone casted 'power word gay' on pril'

Malacar ASSOC:: 'must... mp...soon...underwear...cringing...at...oncoming...onslaught...'
Ruxur
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Postby Ruxur » Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:20 pm

so having 65% of your group be guildies gives you the right to claim stuff?

sweet, im claiming spob heart tonight.
Cofen group-says 'wtf, why am i missing a cursed khanjari?'

Alendar group-says 'i r rednek i can only afford the monitor i have mud on and the broken monitor under it'

Nonox tells you 'i think someone casted 'power word gay' on pril'

Malacar ASSOC:: 'must... mp...soon...underwear...cringing...at...oncoming...onslaught...'
Shar
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Postby Shar » Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:04 pm

This thread started out as a possibly useful tool for people to lend their opinions in an issue that strikes at the heart of a large number of our pbase. What it has morphed into is a joke.

One more out of line post and I will lock the thread. Not because it needs to be locked but because obviously those of you still reading and responding to it need to shut up about it.
Shar - Forger Administrator, TorilMUD

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Shevarash tells you 'Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down..... groan'
Ruxur
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Postby Ruxur » Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:39 pm

prolly should go ahead and lock it shar.

its just gonna go further downhill from here.
Cofen group-says 'wtf, why am i missing a cursed khanjari?'

Alendar group-says 'i r rednek i can only afford the monitor i have mud on and the broken monitor under it'

Nonox tells you 'i think someone casted 'power word gay' on pril'

Malacar ASSOC:: 'must... mp...soon...underwear...cringing...at...oncoming...onslaught...'
Yasden
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Postby Yasden » Sun Oct 09, 2005 11:57 pm

I did claim a Surtur years ago, in the heyday of Soj3. It was mostly because I was basically forced into leading the zone after an unnamed person decided they didn't want to lead it after practically forming the group. Also, because as a leader I felt that the need for !summon eq was important for me, just as sense life is. I also felt horrible for doing it, and I know it upset more than one group member. However, I would do it again, especially if it came to a scenario similar...for example, leading Tiamat. If I were to lead Tia, I'd sure as hell claim item the first time I led it, because of the sheer amount of effort undertaken to make such an endeavor a success.

In that regard, the Surtur was the only time I've ever claimed an item, unless you count final fights of quests (Oakvale, magebane, etc...).

However, that's neither here nor there. There's enough of us playing goodies that we could easily form full-evil groups from time to time and roll zones. So...why don't we? I know most of Scions and Imphras both have perfectly capable (maybe needing skill practice) evils ready to zone. I'll be the first to admit I miss playing my warrior. I miss leading zones. In that same vein, I also miss having competent groups that could do zones other than inane crap.

That's why I stopped leading, and stopped playing my evil. Not because I wanted to. It was becoming an enormous, stress-filled accomplishment to finish any zone without some sort of BS...whether it be a spank caused by someone's idiocy, spank-crash, or eq-greedy people complaining about a split.

So sure, you can ask me to lead. I'll probably be inclined to say no, but you can't ever say I didn't try my hardest to keep evils alive and zoning for as long as I could, even when the other leaders where MIA or had already "converted".

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Postby Kegor » Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:22 am

Yasden wrote:That's why I stopped leading, and stopped playing my evil. Not because I wanted to. It was becoming an enormous, stress-filled accomplishment to finish any zone without some sort of BS...whether it be a spank caused by someone's idiocy, spank-crash, or eq-greedy people complaining about a split.


Bingo. I am so tired of that, you don't even know. Only reason I still do it is for my friends and guild members. Wouldn't it have been interesting to see what things would have been like if I woulda jumped ship from evils long ago like so many others have. Realistaclly speaking, I don't think we would be having this discussion now. Which would be just peachy with me.

NONOX:

If people are still mad about that diamond ring I claimed a long time ago and won't play evil because they didn't get a bid on it, good. I don't want people around me with that attitude. We were there to finish a ress quest, and what a headache that was just to get the group to go getter done. If they don't understand why I was the one to get it, maybe they should ask somebody who knows before they raise an issue about it. I am proud of the fact that an evil player in general has at least one of the now many diamond rings in the game. Think Ssissu has one also, but he is retired. So 2 diamond rings, to the god knows how many goodies have by now. I claimed a diamond ring over a year ago! GET OVER IT OR DON'T! Just keep it to yourself, because nobody wants to hear your whining, or even cares. Just a simple fact from me to you.

* Zoom

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