Rewarding leaders/use for prestige

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Rewarding leaders/use for prestige

Postby Malia » Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:40 pm

done alot of thinking about this not sure how to word it but as you read this please just constructive ideas.. and if people post constructive ideas please dont slam their idea.

ok, 1 big problem is see with the pbase dwindling is that most of the people wait around for one of the few leaders left to lead something. People want to always be doing something, exp, questing, zoning, skill practice.. something.

My goal is to create more leaders, have more people learn the actual zone instead of being lemmings, i think with more leaders we will get more people playing. Prolly more spankage too for you gods that enjoy watching the death logs!

most of the leaders have everything they want and have equiped multiple players and multiple alts, so whats in it for the leader, and where is the encouragement to become a leader or learn to lead. Id like to see leaders have some goals too or get bonuses for leading because without them this mud would truely die (no offense to the gods, because without yer hard work this mud would die too, strictly talking from the player side)

What would you do if Lilithelle, Pava, Maxler, Jalahon, Sarell Kiryan (im sure im missing a few but you get the point) stoped leading anything. Lotta people would get really bored.

id like to see the stronger better leaders get rewarded or have some reward system in place for the leaders to encourage more people to learn to lead and take some of the preasure off the few leaders we got left. Right now you only get re-strings for RP'ing, Restring is probably one of the best rewards you can get in this mud, very few of them and they are handed out only very rarely, its a status symbol more then anything else. Now as much as i appreciate the RP'ing side of things and my hats are off to all those RP's its not what keeps this mud alive. Of the Leaders that are named or most often leading, which of them is part of the RP sphere? none really.

This all being said my idea would be to turn prestige into some sort of reward.. say leaders get bonus prestige for leading, and say 10k prestige = 1 restring

now this is just rough numbers, and not sure how to code the prestige thing but i think it would be fun. Rp's would get more prestige thus have more chance to get a restring then normal player, and thus more incentive to RP. Leaders would get more Prestige, thus more incentive to lead and learn zones. Restrings arent powerful they dont change stats on anything they dont change the balance of the game, but they do set a status symbol and they create a drive in people and a goal and that is definately a good thing!

I have played here since about the conception of the mud, some 13years or so.. i have always wanted a restring and never had one I know that it would sure drive me harder to lead zones if i knew in the end i was working for something i have wanted for 13years.

I see alot of pluses with this, increased incentive to RP for prestige, increased incentive to learn zones, increased incentive to lead zones. All of these things lead to more people playing and an increased pbase.

Any CONSTRUCTIVE critisism is welcome and any other possible ideas to create leaders and reward the current leaders is welcome.
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Postby Dalar » Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:48 pm

Could put in a token of prestige (like that beast token crap Iuz gave out) at the end of zones and have them give a different amount of prestige for the zone. But the question is, will people give it to the leader?
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Postby Malia » Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:50 pm

I think that idea rocks!
Any thoughts on how to control it being given to leaders and not just farmed for other people?
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Postby Areandon » Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:52 pm

Could make it so that for killing "epic" mobs the groupleader gets an amount of prestige. Eg a dragon gives 10 prestige, Bel gives 100 prestige etc.

I don't think this is such a bad idea. It's basically rewarding people who give to the mud. People who RP actively add some to the mud, but so do zone leaders. Without them this game would cease to exist. It can't hurt to propagate behaviour which benefits us all.

I'm all for it!
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Postby Corth » Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:02 pm

Give leaders artifacts..
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

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Postby kiryan » Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:29 pm

this topic has been discussed before I believe.

leaders used to claim any item from the zone with no dispute, now they can't even get people to turn off their looters or stay at the keys.

there is very little incentive for people to lead except to pick their group which gets tougher and tougher each day as the number of non-afk available people of the right classes dwindles.

There are numerous problems with using "prestige" to result in leadership rewards like restrings... for instance, you can get prestige from a variety of sources including just sitting around exping all day long. If this was a direction we wanted to go, I would push for something new like "leadership points"... and then you still have serious issues like whether or not its based on time, or completing certain fights ect... If you use reward tokens at the end it won't be long before that becomes a "bid" item.... I can guarantee that it won't sit well for very long when the leader wins the SPOB heart and claims the leadership token.

Personally, I think the best way to "reward" leaders is through RP Sphere intervention. Picking one boring zone after another to get the same 5 pieces of eq each time is another negative aspect to leading.

If RP Sphere gets more involved (this is not a criticism) then first of all the leader would have a better time and also have a unique experience to offer a group.

1. load rareload zones under the guise of RP, like jot invasion (its been done before).

2. restring a standard zone's mobs and restring the eq (its been done before).

3. tweak fights in the zone, change mob classes around add mobs setbit hps and flags like track. (i'd personally love this sort of spice with the right group)

4. change a random piece of eq from the zone leaving its "points" the same. It'll be "unique" but should still be appropriate value for the zone.

5. consumable trinkets. all manner of potions, wands, staves and scrolls. Most of the time the leader can pocket this stuff from zones without torquing anyone off.

6. give the group "Artifacts" to use for the duration of the zone. (does anyone really think Lilithelle is going to spank SC after doing it 100 times, what harm would it be if she lead a group full of artifacts that won the zone in 2.5 hours instead of 3.5 hours?)


The biggest thing is RP sphere would have to give up the guise of impartiality; there is no way you can specifically quantify and compare each leader's contributions. I can understand that no one wants to be in a position where they can be criticized without having some rule or chart of points to rely on or some absolute authority so they can say thats just the way it is, but i don't think we should allow it to "hold" us back either. RP sphere could be creating so many more positive experiences in the mud if they weren't so wary of the player hate and being perceived as impartial...

Another thing they would have to do is be inclined to do extra work and create wonderful RP opportunities that they know are just going to go to "waste" to hack and slash mentality... I wouldn't give out any "rp" points as a result of above suggested scenarios unless the group deserved RP points under the current RP system/rules and there were no "hard" rewards in the zone.

---

I have a couple of other ideas to increase incentive to be a leader, but they are much more time consuming than the simple ideas above.
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Postby Malia » Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:38 pm

I dont see why people would be upset if leader claimed the prestige token at the end, and i doubt it would be bid on because that is the LEADERS reward for leading the zone, if the leader wins the spob heart also that run so be it, but they still lead it, so they get the Reward token also.

I think that maybe prestige could be tweaked and you coudlnt get prestige sitting around exping.

everyones mentality in zones is gimmie gimmie gimmie and most people wouldnt be in zones without that 1 person that formed the group (thats the hardest part btw) and learned the zone to lead the zone. Give the leaders the credit they derserve and lets make some incentive for new up and commin leaders.
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Postby Yasden » Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:46 pm

Corth tells you 'You receive the tome of Ultimus Idlus from Shevarash.'


On a serious note...I lead, and I think I'm fairly involved with the RP-Q setting. I might not be as adamant as say, Nilan, but I am committed to furthering the plotline.

There's one inherent flaw in the idea of training leaders. People are afraid to go zoning with someone they 1. don't know well and 2. haven't zoned with before and doesn't have a good reputation. I've seen many would-be leaders give up early on because of this. I can't offer much advice, but if you're in an association, it's the duty of your comrades to support you and help you out in this endeavor.

Any well-respected leader has cut their teeth on the most basic of zones. Planes (Astral, FP, AP) are a great start, along with old-school core zones (SF, Jot, Brass, TF, Crypts, IC1, CC, Roots).

Throwing a leader newbie at Izan's, or SPoB, or IC2, or BC is only going to result in spanks of epic proportions...take Feezuu's SPoB lead, for example. Not to pick on him at all, Feezuu is a great guy, and I admire the fact he wanted to lead. However, the lack of prior leadership training resulted in a 15 hour run of the zone.

You ask any of the old leaders what they learned on. Corth'll tell you the same thing I did. Yeah, the zones get boring and mundane and redundant after a while, and I tried my hardest to lead these multiple times, and I offered to train my guildies the same way. Maxler is a prime example, and pretty much the only one that wanted to learn. His first few leads where the easy zones, as I said before.

So, if you have a guildie that wants to lead, personally I think it'd be best if you did guild runs on those zones during the long boots. Another easy zone to learn is Oakvale, along with TK/BB. For evils, you can learn DD, YO, and lava demon in no time.

I'll be the first to say, I don't consider myself to be an "uber" leader in the least. However, I can lead well and effectively, and can learn new zones relatively quickly. My nickname comes from my own deaths 95% of the time, not the groups'. I've come up with my own strategies for several zones, and I've seen some of them adopted over time by others who lead them.

Another good method of teaching a zone might be to post some maps and tricks for fights to the old zones everyone's done a thousand times. Would the imms object to that? I certainly benefitted from having a map of TTF and MD when I was leading them (I still use the MD map, because I don't know it intimately as Lilithelle does).

The most important part of leading, however, isn't so much knowing the zones, but knowing how to form a group and what the people in it are capable of. You have to know what classes you need, what you can get away with, and what those people can do with their player skills. I've done SF in 45 minutes flat with a group full of "elite" players, and I've had runs that took upwards of 2 hours due to the lack of damage on the big fights. That's the key to being a successful leader, is being able to make do with what you have.

A message to those who want to learn how to lead: Have patience, and don't quit because someone pisses you off. There's going to be plenty of tells and spam when you're leading. People telling you how to do things, people asking questions, people telling you AFK etc etc, it can really pile up on you. When you're confident enough in leading a zone, you can learn to just "ignore" the tells of advice, and answer the questions during a mem. You'll also get SUPER annoyed at splits, especially if one or more people complain...especially if you have to do the dreaded redice *shudder*. But if you have your rules for splitting set before the zone starts, and people are aware, then you can just tell them to zone with someone else.

All in all, leading is a great experience, and probably the greatest contribution a person can make as a mortal to the MUD's economy and survival, short of helping new players.

Anyway, there's my thoughts on the subject.

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Postby kiryan » Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:49 pm

I'd go along with corth as long as the artifact's power was made to fit the player.

You don't want powerful artifacts in the hands of people who will abuse them. The most benign and weak artifact in dartan's hand would be a future problem =).

Highly skilled and powerful leaders don't need as powerful of artifacts as more fool hardy leaders. If you were to give lilithelle a !ress effects 1x per week ress stick you might give someone like moritheil a 10x per week ress stick. As the leader gets "better" and takes less risks you could tone down the artifact appropriately. On the other hand Lilithelle could probably handle a more powerful artifact without "abusing" it.

Although the concept that a strong respected player gets a weaker artifact than a weak player sounds stupid, I think it would be best. its the reverse reward model, rewarding people for failing rather than for succeeding, but either way its a reward earned by leading.

Is lilithelle a "better" leader than moritheil just because she disciplines herself to only primarily lead properly formed groups of skilled players through zones she knows? Is moritheil's contribution of leading newer players in underpowered groups through spank after spank any less important to the mud and the pbase as a whole? When is leading the toughest.... during spanks... who has spanked more sok, moritheil or lilithelle?
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Postby kiryan » Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:56 pm

malia

zone cash was undisputed leader's right for several years yet now its a free for all.

10 years ago leaders had the power to decide who could zone, today players have the power to decide if a leader has the people to zone. I don't think you can change the status quo. The balance of power is with the players so anything of value will eventually become usurped.
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Postby Ashiwi » Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:13 pm

I'd love to see some kind of competitions within the game again. NonRP events couched in an RP guise, with rewards given for various aspects of completion.

One of the fun methods of doing this was when boss mobs were turned into grinches for Christmas, and the groups with the greatest number of Grinch tokens won rewards. Sure, it spawned a lot of animosity, but bitching can be ignored, and one of the greatest encouragements to playing that Toril is missing is the player vs. player element. This is one point where animosity can actually be a benefit for the game. Many of the more hardcore players are missing the ability to square off against opponents who actively respond to a healthy round of mama-bashing.
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Postby Dalar » Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:17 pm

While prestige is being talked about, is this shit ever going to have use? Can we get some artifacts in game through prestige? Something like Wurhana's old horn would be awesome.
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Postby kiryan » Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:16 pm

targsk,

while training new leaders and encouraging people to lead can hardly be considered a bad thing, your trying to overcome a game dynamic with sheer force of will and you will fail.

there is simply no benefit to leading except choosing the time, zone and company. When this changes, you'll see new leaders.

When there are more people who want to do zones than leaders available you'll see new leaders.

its a noble effort but a waste of your energy. write zones that make people want to zone and you'll add 100x more value.
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Postby sotana » Tue Oct 11, 2005 2:49 am

Just my two cents, I've led single mob fights (dragons) and baby zones (gem dragons, crypts, various planes, brass etc) plenty but have never led the bigger zones because, since they take more time, I don't want to get in the way of some of the more established leaders leading groups :-P. With the small pbase, one person cutting her teeth on leading a zone can tie up enough players for hours (reference the 'cutting her teeth' statement and add another hour or two to the usual time it takes to complete zone) and keep anyone else from being able to lead anything. I have mapped almost every goodie zone and feel like I know some of the big zones well enough from my own zoning experience and notes to lead but have always held back for that reason. It may sound silly but there it is. Soooo, it looks like some established leaders are saying they want other people to take players and time leading zones even though it may mean no other zone can be done during what may possibly be an extended time?
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Postby Malia » Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:06 am

I would love more people to lead, i really believe putting right group together is hardest part. I will follow most people to zones i feel they have at least an idea out to do, and will lend aid or advice where i can, more leaders this mud has the better.

More the point of this thread is yes trying to encourage more leading but to reward those faithful leaders and give them something extra for all they work they do too.

I think an end result would be more instrest in prestige thus giving more intrest to RP, more intrest to leading, and more intrest for current leaders to stay strong and continue leading. An over all gain for the mud as i see it but thats just my opinion
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Postby Hsoj » Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:24 pm

sotana wrote:one person cutting her teeth on leading a zone can tie up enough players for hours


or longer if they f'up the quest, *wink*
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Postby Birile » Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:55 pm

Sounds like Sotana doesn't have an excuse anymore. *halo*
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Postby Gurns » Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:29 pm

I see your concerns, Malia: You wish to see zoning continue, under good leaders, and think that should the present leadership get bored and leave, that may cease.

I disagree. The number of leaders on the mud has always been a small proportion of the active pbase. My guess is that there are currently more experienced leaders per online player than ever. Your list of leaders is maybe 10% of the number of PCs usually online. That's rather higher than I remember it being in the old days. It's part of being a mature playerbase – lots of folks know lots of zones pretty well, now.

Furthermore, as some responses here show, there is interest among others in learning to lead. So I don't see any current or future lack of leaders.

What you are, perhaps, addressing is a lack of eagerness among leaders to lead. And as such, it sounds to me like you want the imms to fix what's really a player problem.

What might be the two biggest reasons leaders aren't eager to lead? Since I'm not a leader, I'm only guessing but:

1. They're bored leading the same old zones. There's no challenge to them anymore. They've nothing to prove, having beaten the zone dozens of times, with dozens of groups.

2. They're tired of putting up with players who don't respect them enough to listen to them; who don't do as they're told; who don't stay at the keys; and who don't even know how to play their class. And then who complain loud and long about the split, and even more if the leader tries to claim an item or the loot.

The first issue would be something the imms could work on. Adding more zones or revising old zones would put some challenges out there. But there's a limit to how effective that can be. Just read the boards: Most players won't do zones unless the gear you get from the zone is "good enough". But today's players, with their years of playing experience and bags full of top-level gear and hundreds of percent above lvl 51, are already too powerful for the mud, and already have the best or near the best gear. Any new zone coming in will either be rolled over in a week or two, or will be an almost impossible zone which means there are no rewards that could be "good enough". So new zones would help a little, but each new zone only helps temporarily, and for a short time. New zones can help, but are not a real solution.

The second issue is something the imms have nothing to do with. Want people to want to lead? Get players to stop bitching about splits. Get players to do what they're told. Get players to stop going afk whenever they feel like it. Get players to learn to play their class. Get players to be honestly grateful to the leader for all that is required for leading. In other words, give leaders some real prestige – the respect they deserve from their peers. Anything else is crap compared to that. And bribing a leader with trinkets from the imms isn't going to make up for the lack of that respect.
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Postby kiryan » Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:17 pm

there is nothing hard or glamorous about leading so we will never return to the days where leaders were unconditioanlly respected.

the only way we can return to a leader respecting culture is if good leaders can make the difference in winning or never winning a zone. today, the most incompetent leader can fumble through a zone if he has competent followers... how are you going to make zones more 'leadership' dependent?

this might be a good argument for equipping highly skilled leaders with true artifacts... toddrick would do tiamat friday nights with a group of 12 partly cuz of artifacts while the other 150 people online would spank on the planes or in jot.
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Postby Lahgen » Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:03 am

Gurns wrote:Get players to stop bitching about splits.


True, it is best if mudders mud for the sake of mudding, rather than for the sake of treasure.

Remember though, many tabletop D&D games DO center a lot around getting more treasure and power. As well as the vast majority of video games.

So, much of it might be less greed, but rather just not knowing any better.
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Postby sotana » Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:39 am

Birile wrote:Sounds like Sotana doesn't have an excuse anymore. *halo*


Excellent! You consent me Birile and I'll lead whatever zone you request!! *skip*
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Postby Birile » Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:59 pm

sotana wrote:
Birile wrote:Sounds like Sotana doesn't have an excuse anymore. *halo*


Excellent! You consent me Birile and I'll lead whatever zone you request!! *skip*


BC 8pm EST tonight, guys!

*duck*
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Postby Gurns » Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:34 pm

kiryan wrote:the only way we can return to a leader respecting culture is if good leaders can make the difference in winning or never winning a zone. today, the most incompetent leader can fumble through a zone if he has competent followers... how are you going to make zones more 'leadership' dependent?

You're supporting my point. You're arguing that the mud doesn't need good leaders – zones can be done without them. I don't entirely agree, but if you are correct, if any idiot can lead a zone, then there's definitely no reason for there to be trinkets or artifacts to reward leading.

My argument was that if players want good leaders, they need to respect them. If players don't care if they do a zone in 3 hours with few deaths or in 8 hours with many deaths... Or rather, if they don't care enough to give the first leader their respect... *shrug* I'd say zones are already leadership dependent. Not in terms of completing them, maybe, but in terms of completing them quickly and cleanly.

Lahgen wrote:Remember though, many tabletop D&D games DO center a lot around getting more treasure and power. As well as the vast majority of video games.

So does this game. Many players already have far more treasure than they can ever use. They also have far more individual and group power than is good for the game, IMNSHO. Players need to be less powerful, not more powerful.

Take this discussion of leading: If players and groups were less powerful, leadership would be more important in terms of completing zones, and even more important in terms of completing them quickly and cleanly. So the imms could encourage good leadership by making the game more challenging so leadership has a more obvious effect. On the other hand, if they make individual players even more powerful by handing out artifacts, then the game becomes even less challenging, and leadership skill matters even less.
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Postby Areandon » Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:50 pm

Gurns wrote:On the other hand, if they make individual players even more powerful by handing out artifacts, then the game becomes even less challenging, and leadership skill matters even less.


I think Malia's suggestion of rewarding leaders by giving restrings fits this fine. It doesn't change the balance at all, it's just ansi. It gives leaders something else to strive for apart from getting the 10th gauntlets of l33tness or doing BC for the 20th time.
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Postby Dalar » Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:22 pm

Gurns wrote:
kiryan wrote:the only way we can return to a leader respecting culture is if good leaders can make the difference in winning or never winning a zone. today, the most incompetent leader can fumble through a zone if he has competent followers... how are you going to make zones more 'leadership' dependent?

You're supporting my point. You're arguing that the mud doesn't need good leaders – zones can be done without them. I don't entirely agree, but if you are correct, if any idiot can lead a zone, then there's definitely no reason for there to be trinkets or artifacts to reward leading.


The MUD doesn't need 'good' leaders, just better people. For example, Folur and Turg were considered 'good' leaders, but they relied on their followers for many things. For example, at the time, Folur didn't have good adaptation skills for situations, such as new skills (sojourn3 instead of sojourn2) with new tactics (area blind/tranq, in and out nuking etc.). Turg recently didn't even know how the BC quest work but relied on his followers (Pril who fucked it up, SMRT!) to do the quest for him. What Folur and Turg did have was the patience and the "charisma" to get people to follow him and micromanage the people in the group. This skill is extremely valuable because managing different personalities is a complete pain in the ass and so is making sure everyone is in line and at the keys.

Yes, any incompetent leader can lead a bunch of competent people to victory. I've done it with IC2 and BC and so has Kiryan. We didn't lead at all in the past; we just lead it because we wanted some loot and nobody had the knowledge or balls to organize a group.

My vote: Reward people who take the time to manage the lazy AFKers and stuff. This MUD is pretty boring and people tend to AFK or swap windows very often.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Lahgen » Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:39 pm

Gurns wrote:
Lahgen wrote:Remember though, many tabletop D&D games DO center a lot around getting more treasure and power. As well as the vast majority of video games.

So does this game. Many players already have far more treasure than they can ever use.


Unfortunately, you missed my main point. Which is, it's not "greedy" to want a fair, impartial chance at gear that you worked for. Not the best way for them to look at things perhaps, but not inherently greedy, as is implicitly implied when bemoaning how leaders used to be able to undisputedly claim items.

PS: Come back to the mud! :D
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Rather than seeing "subpar race/class," see "challenge."
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Postby kiryan » Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:22 am

Gurns,

the most compelling reason to reward leaders is because they take the time to entertain other people not because they are uniquely skilled or more charasimatic or a better player ect... when leaders go out of their way to entertain people they contribute in a very valuable way that is different but not less important than how immortals contribute content, administration, code.
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Postby Ifin » Fri Nov 18, 2005 2:02 am

*bump*

This was something that I chatted with Pava about before awhile back, but going back to the basics of the post.

Is there a reason why it's bad if prestige is used in something like a restring? A Duris player commented how our eq looks boring (our procs are better though). Being able to use prestige for something would be able to:

- Get away from cookie cutter eq
- Not unbalance the MUD as the stats are the same
- Bring more fun and give a reason to smite more things even if you don't need to
- Instill a sense of pride in accomplishments which can carry over to Toril pride
- Is an objective way of rewarding players who have contributed and played a long time

In the context of rewarding leaders, maybe there's some food on the end bosses of zones that the leader can just pick up and eat and then it'll add some bonus prestige in addition to all the kill prestige, I don't know.

But again, would help retain and keep older players active. Doesn't even need coding, just a policy decision on the parts of the immortals. Can even be an eq sink! Requiring prestige + plats + x points of eq or something.
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Postby Tasan » Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:57 am

Restrings aren't going to keep people playing.

Keeping the old folks playing is the job of Code and Areas.

Fix some of the long standing problems that have been harped on for ages, and player attitudes will shift greatly.

Leading these days boils down to knowing who has alt1, alt2, alt3 and making a group out of all the alts... mostly because the same zones are led ad nauseum due to the complete lack of anything better to do....hint.

Don't get me wrong, I respect leaders, I _was_ one for awhile, but, they deal with the same things now we always did. Leading is it's own reward, and if it isn't, then don't lead.
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Postby Ifin » Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:15 am

Well I was trying to get back away from the leader on discussion but towards just any active and long time playing player, but ofc leaders should have an accelerated way to gain prestige if it was ever used.

I guess another way of thinking of a restring is it's pretty much a brand new piece of eq but with a boost in +++style. And in an eq-driven MUD I would think that's a big deal. Long time active players should have something to differentiate themselves for their contributions. And thinking of positive changes with least effort this would seem to be one of them.

Can put this in the context of epic quests, that these players have acquired enough of "something" (prestige, etc.) to get a "new" item.

Speaking a little off topic, I wish epic quests were less rare-hunting (of easy smite mobs) and/or smite (pretty easy) x mob for y item n times to complete sub-quest, rinse and repeat. I would have imagined epic quests taking a ton of "valuable" but normal-pop items in zones. Even if the rewards weren't much of a boost, but had cool ansi, people who have everything would probably quest just to look different and give them something to do (encourage activity).
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Postby Gormal » Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:23 am

Nonox has a point, but I put the challenge on the regular leaders to try and help vary what they do. Instead of 15man izan seeli spob etc... why not start leading 5man brass or something cool. Help to challenge people, not contribute to the stagnation thats quickly killing this place.
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Postby Ionari » Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:41 pm

Gormal wrote:Help to challenge people, not contribute to the stagnation thats quickly killing this place.


This place died after the first time it was shut down in the late '90s. Oh sure the mud came back under a new IP - but it never recovered.
Io

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Postby Dalar » Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:52 pm

<img src=http://www.myweb.cableone.net/misleadheart/bearshit.png>
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby kiryan » Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:29 pm

prestige is a meanlingless stat. Its been used to give out RP rewards, some mobs were giving out prestige on death, and every 1% over 50 gives you 1 more prestige.

pardon me, but the stupidest thing you could do is give out restrings or something based on prestige (without factoring out at least the exp component of prestige). Why should someone get a restring for exping his ranger up to 3000% in 2 or 3 weeks?

---------

someone said restrings won't make people play. you are wrong.

Some people would play to get restrings, not everyone, but some... most of the hardcore players. I see muds/mmorpgs as places to do something. The more things to do, the more likely you will spend more time there. If you have a mud with 1 great thing (like zoning) what do you do when your bored of zoning? If you have a mud with 100 things to do, only one of which is truly fun, then when you get bored, you *might* find yourself wasting your time on one of the other 99 things long enough to get interested in doing that 1 thing again.

Make no mistake, you lose a lot of people to "boredom". The # of people who come back after "breaks" is a clear testament to this fact.
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Postby Dalar » Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:09 pm

PvP and rewards
Feed artifacts
Farm for potions/materials
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'

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