RP or not to RP.. What's the question????

[Lilira]

Okie dokie -

New thread here. I'm asking ahead of time that if you don't have anything nice (ie constructive without being rude) don't post here. This is not a flame session.

A friend of mine and I are trying to find out why RP died.

I don't mean the RPQ-sphere, as they are still doing all kinds of stuff, and working their bums off to do it. I'm talking about players.

Here it is Friday night about 10pm Eastern time, and I do a who RP. Wow, there's 13 people with their RP flags on!! Very nice, but how many actually engage in RP events? I see some of the "Warders" on, and I know most of them are up for RP. However most of the others on I've never seen near an RP event. I've also never really chatted with them in RP style.

Honestly, if you're interested in RP, post some ideas on how the PLAYERS can get it going again. Comments about artifacts and stuff like that are pretty pointless atm, since I doubt it would happen. Remember, the RP itself can be a reward! ( I sure think it is!) If anyone is in the mood to RP, by all means drop me a tell and I'll see if there's something I can do. Look for me, when I'm practicing instruments I hide.

RP does not just have to be RPQ run. What happened to all the mud weddings that used to take place? They used to happen all the time, heck I had a beautiful one myself! All the clothes that are created and scattered over the realms.. reasons to wear them are few and far between!!! Heck, even an RP party would be fun. Toss those plats to the food merchants, pick a place and have a great time. So its not zoning, so what? Its the flip side of meeting all your crazy friends on-line and having a good time.

I am in no way affiliated with RPQ. I'm doing this to answer my own curiosity, and who knows, some of the stuff that gets posted might be added in somewhere eventually. While RPQ obviously have HUGE endless imaginations, I'm sure they don't mind an idea every once in a while. *grin*

Thumbs up to Auril and Eilistraee (& any hiding RPQ I might have missed...) for all the hard work they've done, and the fun that still continues to come.

[Hsoj]

Oh wow Hsoj w/ another noobish question... The difference between RPQ and RP is what again?

[Lilira]

RPQ is Role-Playing Quest I believe.. its the term typically used to describe events run by the Role-Playing Quest sphere of immortals.

RP is just role-playing, and can be done any ol' time. *grin* And frequently is!

[Vigis]

I think that the decline of RP has to deal with several issues.

First, the restrictions on guilds and associations was loosened quite a bit. At the peak of RP, a member of a guild had to write an RP story, have his/her RP flag on at all times, and be willing to act the part if they were approached.

Second, the administration today has taken a different approach to players. When Lloth and Mystra reigned supreme, RP was more than just "encouraged." Mystra enforced things such as adverse grouping (Pali with any evil align etc.) with a hammer made of a metal called "You are screwed!"

Third, many of the players who used to enjoy mudding for the RP have left. Some never came back after the change. Those who are left that used to enjoy RP either make the choice to not RP and concentrate on zoning and power playing, or they RP with people who are sometimes unwilling to reciprocate.

I am sure that there are many many other reasons, but these are the ones I find most pressing. People just don't seem to RP anymore, and in all honesty, why should they? The majority of people who RP'd here started playing back when tabletop ruled the world. Now, we have PS2, Gamecube, PSP, GBA, EQ2, WoW (is there any need to name more?) that appeal more to the average Joe.

Sorry for going on so long. :)

[Vigis]

I hate my computer.

[Disoputlip]

The RP flag has somewhat lost its meaning. Beeing a player that used to play on a RP intensive mud I assumed the RP flag sort of said IC. (in character). But all it says is: "gods, if you run a quest then you can ask me if I want to go.". Gods will not ask players without RP flag on.

So, today, 2 players can easily have RP flag on and stand in the inn discussing what CPU is the best.

One thing you can't do is force RP. And to make the events all you have to do is start them. Don't expect others to. If you want ideas for events (such as un-birthdays with tea in the forest) let me know.

-yog

[Tasan]

I actively role-play an asshole, and any statements to the contrary are incredibly false.

[Osheara]

Player run parties are hard to organize when the players hardly show any interest. I used to try to arrange some, get people involved, but honestly, I find that the interest in the mud always comes to zoning. Well, afking as well.

As for the other random RPing, maybe it's changed while I've been mostly away, but the focus for rp always was on the sphere. If it didn't involve the sphere, people rarely seem to take initiative to get involved in just the random rp between players.

I have to say, I've had a bit of bitterness about the whole concept of rp from torilmud. It is not a rp mud. It has so much potential to explore that area more and the players who do, I admire. But the main pbase does not rp for one reason or another.

[Ashiwi]

My opinion is that it started with a huge backlash against the overly harsh days of Mystra, which was quite naturally associated with the enforced RP atmosphere. In order to pull away from that image, the game adopted a much more lenient RP atmoshpere. There was still a handful of people in the game who not only were not inclined to RP, they were vehemently and very vocally opposed to RP, using the typical tactics of demeaning, abusive behavior toward anybody who attempted to keep an RP flair in the Toril world. For quite some time those who chose to RP were literally ostracized by those who took an aggressive stance against it. Unfortunately, those who were most highly aggressive against the RP aspect of the game were most often also the power players - those who led zoning groups most frequently.

I'm not sure why a certain group of the game took such a negative stance towards RP, but I do know that the RP staff took a lot of abuse from an inordinately large percentage of the population of that group. The RP staff were subjected to abuse over their supposed failure to include that group, and whenever they attempted to make special concessions for that group, they were insulted, ignored, and those players who attempted to actively participate in the RP sessions were threatened with loss of participation in group activities. It was one of the biggest lose/lose situations in the game at that point in time. The leaders of that group were viciously opposed to being included, and at the same time they attacked the staff for not doing enough for them in the RP arena.

On top of that, there was the situation with the inflated rewards from RP participation, coupled with the backlash from the players who felt slighted and overlooked by the RP sphere, and those who, quite reasonably in many situations, felt that the rewards were inconsistent with the effort involved.

It's a sad situation for me to see, because while I agree that the degree of enforcement and punishment practiced by the previous incarnations of the game were ridiculous, I still believe that a more heavily encouraged/enforced RP atmosphere would bring and maintain a larger pbase for the game. Power players come and go, on to the next game they can conquer and be kings in, but the more socially inclined RP facet of the game tends to stick around and be a stable presence in the game for a much longer period of time. I'm not trying to overlook the small group of hardcore power players who have maintained a strong presence in the game for many years, but even they would benefit from a larger influx of RP-oriented players who come to experience the game, and stay for the full experience of the Faerunian world and the people who inhabit it through RP.

As the game progresses and ages, where will we build our sources of competition and game-natured strife, if not through a source external to the one which the power players in the game have clung to for so long? In the world of text-based gaming, a multitude have come and gone, but the majority of those who have stuck out the long haul and carried larger numbers of players over a long period of time have been those who fostered a large social structure around a good foundation of RP. The text-based game is the perfect backdrop for those who have strong imaginations and prefer to use them, instead of relying on graphics to tell a story for them... and we should be benefitting off of those imaginations, instead of discouraging them.

[Lilira]

It's a sad situation for me to see, because while I agree that the degree of enforcement and punishment practiced by the previous incarnations of the game were ridiculous, I still believe that a more heavily encouraged/enforced RP atmosphere would bring and maintain a larger pbase for the game. Power players come and go, on to the next game they can conquer and be kings in, but the more socially inclined RP facet of the game tends to stick around and be a stable presence in the game for a much longer period of time. I'm not trying to overlook the small group of hardcore power players who have maintained a strong presence in the game for many years, but even they would benefit from a larger influx of RP-oriented players who come to experience the game, and stay for the full experience of the Faerunian world and the people who inhabit it through RP.

Agree Ash... I know several people who have only stuck with Torilmud BECAUSE of the RP, only to be belittled and slapped down by many of the power players. I myself have been fortunate to find good friends who don't mind my saying "No thanks guys, I can't do SPOB tonight, there's some RPish thing going on at 9." I've always tried to treat this as a game, and having fun is the point to the whole thing.

As the game progresses and ages, where will we build our sources of competition and game-natured strife, if not through a source external to the one which the power players in the game have clung to for so long? In the world of text-based gaming, a multitude have come and gone, but the majority of those who have stuck out the long haul and carried larger numbers of players over a long period of time have been those who fostered a large social structure around a good foundation of RP. The text-based game is the perfect backdrop for those who have strong imaginations and prefer to use them, instead of relying on graphics to tell a story for them... and we should be benefitting off of those imaginations, instead of discouraging them.

I've been toying with EQ2 of late. The things we do for our spouses. *grin* Frankly, I still prefer text, and I prefer Torilmud. Why? Well the number one reason is my friends, followed by the time investment I have in this community. Its taken me years to finally get to the point where I can zone on a regular basis if I want to, or RP, or even just stand around and stare at the rooms. My choice! With Toril, I see what I imagine based on the wonderful descriptions in zones. On a graphics system, I have to see what they give me. *yawn*

When I log onto the supposed RP server on EQ2, I'm still barraged with a bunch of names like Buffchick, Masterblaster, and Tinytoes. I'm sorry, my personal preference is RP, and frankly its difficult to maintain the attitude when I'm surrounded by things like that.

First, the restrictions on guilds and associations was loosened quite a bit. At the peak of RP, a member of a guild had to write an RP story, have his/her RP flag on at all times, and be willing to act the part if they were approached.

Ooooo trust me Vigis, I VERY much remember this.. how many hours going through stories, talking to Berronar about them, etc, etc, etc. Can we say PAPERWORK!!!

I am sure that there are many many other reasons, but these are the ones I find most pressing. People just don't seem to RP anymore, and in all honesty, why should they? The majority of people who RP'd here started playing back when tabletop ruled the world. Now, we have PS2, Gamecube, PSP, GBA, EQ2, WoW (is there any need to name more?) that appeal more to the average Joe.

Hey Vigs?? Since when have Torilmudders ever been the avarage Joe? *grin*

Hi, I'm Lilira and I'm a mudaholic.

The RP flag has somewhat lost its meaning. Beeing a player that used to play on a RP intensive mud I assumed the RP flag sort of said IC. (in character). But all it says is: "gods, if you run a quest then you can ask me if I want to go.". Gods will not ask players without RP flag on.

Well, *sniff* that's what it used to mean. I'll be honest, when I have my flag on as Lilira it usually means I'm ready and willing to be IC. Sure I might stand there and talk about shopping with some of the other ladies but the minute someone says greetings, I'm usually quick to put my "Lilira" cloak on. There are some things where I make sure my RP is actually off (usually if I'm in a zone group with a lich). Again, this is all personal preference.

Anyone have any ideas on how players can get other players interested again?

[Ashiwi]

Without some kind of reward or enforced behavior, people are notoriously lazy. There are many who would RP if they deemed it "worth their time." There has to be some reason to get people interested in roleplay, something that appeals to their nature. Competitions with rewards, campaigns with rewards, a point to gaining prestige, bonus notches in skills and exp, something past level 50, puzzles, quests, new zone openings.

Build an RP zone, which can only be entered when RP staff is active and the players who go in are all in RP mode. You don't have to go there, but if you WANT to, it's gonna take a little extra work.

Advertise competitions with prizes. The ancient Greeks had the Olympics. Why can't we have gauntlets of original riddles, feats of skill and luck?

Institute prestige-based rewards and goals.

Give the staff the ability to offer various other rewards for spur-of-the-moment RP. I played one game a long time ago that was very intensively RP-required. In one of the cities was a high class tavern with a ballroom. There were special socials written that could be used only in the dance area. One time when I was there with some friends we were actively RP'ing and my dance partner and I suddenly experienced an unusual notching of our skills, with no explanation. The only thing we could figure was that one of the staff saw us, watched us, and appreciated the effort we had been going to in adding to the RP atmosphere of the game. It was a surprising and very encouraging reason to maintain character even when we thought there was nobody around.

Screw cries of "favoritism" and let the RP staff do their job. Just because the sour grapes faction isn't getting what they want without having to put forth effort for it, doesn't mean they have the right to spoil the fun for others. They've bitched and moaned until this game is exactly what they want... a power-gamer's la-la land with very little purpose for being here between zones. There's a limited number of zones, and a limited amount of rewards you can net for your stable of characters. There is unlimited potential in fostering a more RP intensive world in Toril.

[Gurns]

I agree with a lot that's been said here. *applaud*

I was talking to someone about RPing once, trying to get them involved, and he said something like "But it's boring, it's mostly just standing around talking."

Well, yeah, that was a lot of it, during the Vile One campaign. And a lot of it, back in the day when I was part of the Guild of the Honest Lyre. I assume it's still the case. But why is that? Because a lot of what would often be considered "RP" is not counted as such. After all, all of us are RPing if you count all the standard mud stuff. I'm not really a half-elf, nor a lvl 50 bard. I don't really go around singing magic songs, or stabbing things with pointy daggers. You get the idea.

Most of the commands we issue could be considered RP, and would be, if we were playing a tabletop game. But on the mud, folks talk about fighting and zoning as if it were something entirely separate from role-playing. And that's certainly the way players treat things these days.

The good thing about Toril1, for those like myself who like that sort of thing, was that Mystra and some of the other imms insisted that the mud be taken as real. Or at least, more real. That, if you were on the mud, you had to accept, and voluntarily act, according to some of its reality and its rules, or risk punishment. Rules that, by real world standards, might be arbitrary. (For the record, I note that there is a huge difference between arbitrary rules and arbitrary enforcement of the rules. All games and sports have arbitrary rules, and most folks desire that they should be enforced fairly and equitably.)

The "follow the rules voluntarily or be punished" element of Toril1 (voluntarily, in that it was possible to do something against the rules) was important. Most, perhaps all, of the rules could have been hard-coded in. But that eliminates RP. You have fewer choices, and your PC becomes a limited automaton rather than a character.

Getting back to the current situation, since simply being a PC and fighting and zoning aren't considered RP, then if you're going to enjoy RP on this mud, you're going to have to enjoy the talking. Yes, when I was playing, I took part in plenty of RP events, organized by RPQ or by players, that involved things other than talking. But talking was still an important part of those events.

Why? Because if being an elf and exploring and fighting and finding loot and hard-coded questing and figuring out what's the best gear to wear and on and on... If none of that counts as RP, what's left? Talking (and socials and emotes, which comes to the same thing).

Talking, that is, or special events, where you go exploring and fighting and finding loot – and talking – to do something that's not ordinarily on the mud. Or to do something that's ordinarily on the mud, but do it in a different context.

As several folks have noted above, if players want to get more folks into RP, and if "just talking" doesn't seem to be attracting them, then there are ways for players to run their own events. Folks have also posted the notion that players would like a reward for the event. The thing is, if you are thinking of running an event, and think there should be a reward, then you could make an event of obtaining the reward.

For example, suppose Ashiwi and Lilira decide they want to hold a riddle contest. They decide they're going to award some trinket to the winner. To get more folks interested in the contest, they decide the trinket should be hard to get. Maybe it's valuable, maybe it's not valuable just unusual. Anyway, they decide on some appropriate prize. Whatever it is, Ashiwi probably already has 3 of them in a bag someplace, but for fun and as an RP event, they go out and get one for their contest. They find some other folks interested in helping them obtain this item, all as RP/IC. Voila, two RP events – a riddle contest and a quest. Either or both of which might get more folks, or different folks, RPing.

[Ashiwi]

Oh man, Gurns, talk about timing. I started planning my competition post about an hour before you posted. Great minds, eh?

[Lilira]

Oh goodness Gurns, you are very much missed.

I just now read your post, and it got me to chuckling very much so near the end, because Ashiwi, Sotana and I have spent the better part of 4 hours off and on discussing a "Mud Olympics" idea.

Something to be run by ourselves, to encourage and promote the fun and spirit of RP. She has posted a background story, and we'll be working to come up with what we're going to do. We're doing this in an effort to rejuvinate interest in the spirit of RP. Yes, we'll try and come up with some shiny trinkets to reward efforts, not sure what yet though, though with Sotana and Ashiwi as part of the triad, there is lots of leeway. *grin*

Gurns hon, if you get time, please give me, Sotana or Ashiwi a shout. *grin* *begs*

[sotana]

The RP flag has somewhat lost its meaning. Beeing a player that used to play on a RP intensive mud I assumed the RP flag sort of said IC. (in character). But all it says is: "gods, if you run a quest then you can ask me if I want to go.". Gods will not ask players without RP flag on.

So, today, 2 players can easily have RP flag on and stand in the inn discussing what CPU is the best.

-yog

I don't have a ton of experience with RP but it seems to me that RP flag meaning 'in character' is far more everyday fun than RP flag meaning 'gods pick me if you need someone for RP stuffs'. I have never played on an RP only mud or even an RP intensive mud but oooooh the fun I could have if someone I knew quite well in RL stared right through me when she ran into me in game because we both had our RP flags togged on and had not formally met. I'm willing to try to always act in character while RP flag is togged on and see what arises. Who else wants to come play?

[Tida]

I know I'm a little late on this one, but I love RPing. When we did the battle against The Vile One, I would have to say that was the most fun I have had on the 10 years I've been playing here. I'm always up for RPing, but do to my work schedule not to many people are up at 10, 11 or even midnight or later to RP with. *sigh* I've always told people to let me know. But it just seems that RP is going downhill. I had someone intrested in RPing, but got told by another player that he wasn't RPing his char right, even though I thought he was *shrug* Just wish there were more people on to talk to and RP with. Okay I'm done rambling now and off to bed. :) Just thought I'd add my 2 cents worth in.

[Hsoj]

I use rp flag and *trollish rp response* to get away with being mean and evil-like

[RPornotRP]

Posting anonymously for reasons that may become clear...

I see a difference between RP and play-acting - I would do the former for fun, RP in the context of what happens, what I choose to do and whom I meet on the MUD. The latter I would personally find too artificial and staged. Personal taste.

I've never much tried to RP on the MUD simply because few people respond in kind, so it's not much fun. That said:

I'll roll a new char. This will always have an RP flag, will enter the game as a complete newbie (in WD, not Scardale), will not respond to tells, will only act/talk In Character and will do what it can to make its way in the world.

I'll be interested to see what responses it gets. I'll keep logs in case anything worthwhile happens.

[Thilindel]

Your name has 'porno' in it! :P

[Lilira]

*sigh Thilindel*

[Yarash]

Your name has 'porno' in it! :P

lol, that's the first thing I saw

[Sundara]

lol!!

[Llaaldara]

Honestly, if you're interested in RP, post some ideas on how the PLAYERS can get it going again. Comments about artifacts and stuff like that are pretty pointless atm, since I doubt it would happen. Remember, the RP itself can be a reward!

Some forms of RP expressions can be drastically more time consuming and labor intensive then any zone, including Tiamat. The lack of rewards for such time and effort is in no doubt connected to the lack of desire to pursue such endeavors nowadays.

As such I don't think there is a way for players to effectively "get it going again" on a large scale. You need rewards to do something that drastic. A showcase for your RP is nice, but it's not a reward. Only staff can give rewards players seem to want. Even simple recognition can be a great reward if there is some way for other players to see this recognition after it's been given. The closest thing you're going to get is a small group of people who find themselves in similar circumstances where RP adds to the enjoyment of what they are doing. Ala the drow only playing that's going on recently.

So in that endeavor, roll a drow and join in. When the drow thing comes to an end, pick another race and do it over again.

[Lilira]

Hmmm.......... Anyone interested??

A dimensional vault (carried) :
a dull black shield with protruding thorns
the boots of the wilderness
some dull adamantite mail sleeves (magic)
a tome titled "The ancient book of necromancy" (magic)
a delicate platinum chain (magic)
a green dragonscale wristguard (magic)
the mask of the scorpion
an arm band of the sylphs (magic)
a heavy cloak of dragonskin
[2] a gold charm bracelet
a runed red velvet mask (magic)
[2] an azurite ring (magic) (illuminating)
a set of basilisk scale leggings (magic)
the iron crown of the frost giant warlords (magic)
gossamer wings of a faerie dragon (magic) (illuminating)
the wings of the griffon (magic)
a suit of ancient red dragonscale armor
a suit of glossy enameled serpent armor (magic)
[2] a necklace of glittering shells
an ancient holy bracelet of Netheril (magic)
an indented belt layered with teeth
a robe of black and white velvet (magic)
a sabretooth mask


BTW,, this is the prize list so far for the Tel'arato Dagor en Halda'cuu, ie. RP challenge that Ashiwi, Sotana and I have issued. Some of this stuff is damn nice, and while it might not be god-given, its still pretty spiffy.