Latest Magma Run (Second time done since dragon changes)

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Sarell
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Latest Magma Run (Second time done since dragon changes)

Postby Sarell » Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:21 am

In summary, I wanted to do magma to prove it could be done in one run. We did it, the gear sucks horribly, the good ring didn't even load, clearing the grid in the middle part of zone is epicly boring.

I was under the impression the loads and things were looked at after all that tweaking of the quest mobs was done. Load was horrible. Not as good as a BC load, not as good as an Izans load :|

Hardest zone ever. 7.5 hours, of really good players non stop.
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Postby Maedor » Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:00 am

you mean 7+hours in gaygma wasnt worth it for a sub_izan ring, a sub_frost crown, and blue bag and decent hitter shoes?

oh come on-it almost sounds like you expect a reasonable return vs reward from magma!

btw-jot invasion gear is out of wack...turn down invasion and give magma some love
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Postby Tasan » Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:43 pm

It would be seriously nice if most drakes didn't roar on rescue. The bigs ones, fine...but I'm a seasoned warrior who's been to the Nine Hells and is no longer afraid of death, I shouldn't be afraid of a smallish drake or 2.

On another note, please fix the various typoes in Dresk's emotes.

And again w/ the dragons proc'ing multiple times/rnd of combat. Along w/ everything else they are capable of doing now, can we limit it to 1 extra dragon action/mob/rnd. It's not going to make that zone cake to do this, and perhaps other so called "undoable" dragons might be worth doing again.

As Magma is now, I feel very disappointed. It is long, boring, overdone w/ the exact same fight every time, and in the end, you are handed a t-shirt(if you are lucky) and get to sit for 30 minutes ressing.

Risk v. Reward in current zones > new zones coming in, period.

If you need help, ask the players who lead these zones or respected players that have been there time and again. Many might have helpful insight.
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Postby Malia » Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:57 pm

I was with the entire run all 7+ hours. The fights got boring after the first 3-4 hours of grid clearning.

1) dragons are suposed to be special its why they are coded so hard and so epic to do now for the most part. Every fight for 3-4 hours we had multiple drakes all breathing and procing every round or so... doesnt make dragons special if everything up there has same kinda proc and your fighting for 7hours+

2)3-4 hours of zone clearing for nadda nothing.. no eq, no t-shirts no nadda, this is longer then most zones that give great rewards like izans and bc and sc and spob. (oh i take that back we got 1 bag)

3)after grid is done you fight 1 big fight with 1 main drake and 5 underling drakes which all proc as soon as you start it that all full heal with !lag so you think taking 1 dragon proc is bad, try taking 6 and getting 1 spell off and hope the key players dont die so you can go back in 10sec later to do it again. (3-4hours of this later you win, yes 3-4 hours for 1 fight)

4) after you kill main mob btw the key pieces are on 10 more magma wyrms.. so if your not tired of fighting dragons after 7 hours.. btw to get any of the rewards you gotta fight 10 more.. and these wander so sometimes there was more then 1 in a room.. FIC!

5) rewards after 7 hours woot theres gotta be something good...
guess again.. a decent bag (we got on grid) a ring that most people wont wear since izans or sc rings beat it, a crown that most people wont wear since both muspel and jot invasion crowns are better and a hell of alot shorter zones.. and a decent pair of hitter boots, not superb, but decent.. i'll wear em till i get spob boots (which is a 3.5 hours zone if you spank)

Well this has to be one one of the longest zones in the game. The entry fight btw was one of the best fights i been in for a long time.. that was great (hi 5 everyone there for it). The rewards for this zone arent even worth doing a 2hour zone let alone a 7 hour zone. the zone is ok in itself but because of dragon changes the zone is doable but not even remotely worth doing.

ps. Anyone do a total corpse count. i know Aristan had 12 not that his count but i think there was a total of 72 or something like that someone give me an actual count, did we break 100!

if you were in zone and died, post the # you had so we can add it up! pava died 6x
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Postby Disoputlip » Sun Nov 06, 2005 6:02 pm

I was there the first 4 hours, died 3 times.

Let me just say, the entry fight was sooo cool. mobs walking in, memming out being plain nessesary but dangerous. Cool ansi and mood to walk around in. (And I almost didn't die that fight).

The rest was a lot of clearing, and even though I fell asleep a few times (it was 3am here) then I thought it was fun. Especially because we had an awesome group.


But..... The point value for the eq is calculated wrong. There is something 100% wrong with how eq-points is calculated for the zone. Eq from magma should be on level with BC or musp invasion. Having talked to guildies I think the problem is dragons giving to few points, and gods have calculated that you can tweak stuff. (reality is you have to clear all).

Mabye make the rareloads there locatable. That way we can just do zone when it loads. I don't see the problem in that since I doubt it can load and a few can tweak it. Else make always something load always.
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Postby Dalar » Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:23 pm

I'm playing WoW and giving Duris a try.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Corth » Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:16 pm

Dalar is on the right track.

Nobody gives a shit about the power gamers here.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

Goddamned slippery mage.
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Postby ssar » Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:00 pm

Yea, this is harsh.
Needs at least 2 or 3 more good items, that crown upgraded, and multiple dragon procs toned down.
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Postby Thilindel » Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:11 pm

recalling that Magma is THE zone 2nd only to Tiamat, it's ok for the deaths, I'd imagine. The eq is just pathetic
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Postby Shar » Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:53 pm

Corth, Dartan,

GO AWAY! Pollute someone else's BBS. Neither of you even play other than to log in. I'm so tired of the negativity toward the game, and toward the imms from both of you that I've considered suspending your BBS priveleges until you either move on or chill out. You've had plenty of opportunity to relax but you consistiently choose to ignore any progress and instead harp on issues (or non issues) you specifically decide to hate.

LAST Straw on this one guys. Hope this is crystal to you. If not, I'm sure I can find a few creative ways to make you realize just how serious I am.


To all others, this thread contains useful feedback that we *need* in order to fix problems, etc. Please keep the comments coming. Thanks.
Shar - Forger Administrator, TorilMUD

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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:02 pm

Shar wrote:Corth, Dartan,

GO AWAY! Pollute someone else's BBS. Neither of you even play other than to log in. I'm so tired of the negativity toward the game, and toward the imms from both of you that I've considered suspending your BBS priveleges until you either move on or chill out. You've had plenty of opportunity to relax but you consistiently choose to ignore any progress and instead harp on issues (or non issues) you specifically decide to hate.

LAST Straw on this one guys. Hope this is crystal to you. If not, I'm sure I can find a few creative ways to make you realize just how serious I am.


To all others, this thread contains useful feedback that we *need* in order to fix problems, etc. Please keep the comments coming. Thanks.


This issue seems to me that once upon a time they both played very actively and both posted ideas, and tips to fix things but nothing would get done. I think that's the whole point of their commentary now.

Telling them to go away is kind of lame in my opinion.
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Postby Shar » Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:11 pm

I'm glad you think so, Arilin. I recall how actively they both played. I recall exactly how much they both contributed. I recall to the very smallest detail just what they have done for this game. While it may seem to you that they now possess some right to be horribly negative toward this game and the immortals, it seems to me that they have the exact opposite responsibility. They are living up to that expectation poorly, but truthfully, the role they should be filling could just be too-high-hopes on my part. How foolish of me to believe that we have quality old-timers who can also be very vocal and positive at the same time (/scarcasm). Another thing I recall-- telling posters (specifically you, among others) to "go away" has worked with resounding success. Troublesome/negative posters either did "go away", or they stopped behaving poorly. Either way, the majority of the readers/moderators benefit greatly because of it, so... I'm good, but thanks for your concern.
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Postby Dalar » Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:11 am

I'm saying exactly what I did. I chose to play WoW because I thought it was a better game. I'm also trying Duris to see if it's just MUDs in general that I'm bored of or TorilMUD specifically. How many times have we told the gods about how crappy one zone is?

Sarell and company took the time to do Magma. FYI, magma was already a boring zone before dragon changes. After dragon changes, it became an extremely difficult zone. Items were changed to reflect this, BUT weren't compared to other zones. How many times has areas made this mistake? Jesus, even WoW makes this mistake and I can tell you it doesn't keep people playing.

And seriously, what role do you want Corth and I to play? This BBS is filled with "fix this" issues or ideas that don't make sense.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Corth » Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:03 am

Heheh, Shar you and some others have been telling a good portion of the pbase to essentially go away for quite some time now, and you are correct, it is quite effective! :)
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
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Postby Marthammor » Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:21 pm

The last time I worked on magma people thought it was ok as far as difficulty was concerned. No one had done it after I tweaked things again so I got no feedback on anything.
Since its been done again, I have more feedback and things have been tweaked again using input from this thread and should be in soonish.
I done this the following day after the zone was done. Had I read this thread today, I likely wouldn't have messed with anything due to the negative nature of the recent posts.

You want something fixed or looked at, ask nicely and I'll see what I can do for you. Give me crap and I'll put it off or just plain ignore you.
If there are problems that have been brought up before but never replied to or corrected, then by all means give the thread a friendly bump or start a new thread about it.
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Postby kiryan » Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:09 pm

why should the negative tone of the posts have any affect on whether or not you fix something that is broken or retarded.

why should we have to kiss ass to get needed changes in?

#1 problem with imms, leave your personal feelings out of it and get the job done.
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Postby Nekelet » Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:37 pm

#1 problem with players - the belief that they can behave like an ass with no consequence.
<edit> implicit: "some."
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Postby Tasan » Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:39 pm

Shar wrote: telling posters (specifically you, among others) to "go away" has worked with resounding success. Troublesome/negative posters either did "go away", or they stopped behaving poorly. Either way, the majority of the readers/moderators benefit greatly because of it, so... I'm good, but thanks for your concern.


If that's your attitude Marth, go away.

What's Duris' address again?
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Postby Hsoj » Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:41 pm

they have plenty other things to get done w/o putting what you bitch about at the top of their list. It's a free game, why don't you show some respect and leave your feelings out of it?

Area's need to be compared though. I'm writing a zone and I've been doing research so I know what is in whack and what is out of whack.

as an aside...

to the magma group,
Was the eq +style at all?
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Postby Dalar » Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:24 pm

Tasan wrote:
Shar wrote: telling posters (specifically you, among others) to "go away" has worked with resounding success. Troublesome/negative posters either did "go away", or they stopped behaving poorly. Either way, the majority of the readers/moderators benefit greatly because of it, so... I'm good, but thanks for your concern.


If that's your attitude Marth, go away.

What's Duris' address again?

Don't lie, you know I was kicking your ass in leveling (sorc > shaman!) yesterday :(
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Dalar » Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:29 pm

Hsoj wrote:they have plenty other things to get done w/o putting what you bitch about at the top of their list. It's a free game, why don't you show some respect and leave your feelings out of it?

Area's need to be compared though. I'm writing a zone and I've been doing research so I know what is in whack and what is out of whack.

as an aside...

to the magma group,
Was the eq +style at all?

Hsoj, we've been saying THE EXACT SAME MESSAGE FOR THE PAST 3 years. Here's a friendly reminder: Risk vs reward must be considered for all equipment AND must be compared to other zones. THERE IS NO POINT MAKING HP RINGS WITH MEANINGLESS SAVES ON THEM IN EVERY ZONE. This message has been said by almost every competent player in the past 3 years. Marth, this message doesn't need to be asked for nicely or every thread on it doesn't need a friendly bump. This message is critical for any zone for players usually need a reason to do a zone. Look how often KT is done and think about it. Also, look at your dwindling pbase.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Hsoj » Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:32 pm

w/o hp rings of meaningless saves the infrastructure of the mud would instabilitize and result in chaos and fire.. Fire.. FIRE?!!?
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Postby Dalar » Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:34 pm

OK, redundant is a better word rather than meaningless.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Eilistraee » Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:26 pm

kiryan wrote:why should the negative tone of the posts have any affect on whether or not you fix something that is broken or retarded.

why should we have to kiss ass to get needed changes in?

#1 problem with imms, leave your personal feelings out of it and get the job done.


No. Thanks.
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Postby Sarell » Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:49 pm

Heya Marthammor,

I still think the zone is okay in terms of difficulty. It was hard, but we did do straight through!

I wouldn't change the fights as they sit currently. Even though the middle bit where you are mopping up the scattered drakes is a bit dry, it does test a groups mettle a little before the big fight. Ours managed to stay in form and get the big fight done. Perhaps next time I would drop a few people to start their entry resses during this period.

Thanks for looking at the gear load so quickly :) Everyone kept saying to me what's the point of doing magma, I just stuck to "well it's never been done straight through and we don't know what loads unless you have god leaks?" Hopefully next time our lust for treasure will be sated! *grins*.

If gear is upgraded, I'd strongly suggest not retrospectively upgrading all the old gear that was totally abused when magma first went in. Maybe add a completely new item or two.....
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Postby Dalar » Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:58 pm

Another solution is to just add new items to there with the same name as the old ones. This is something imms should have been doing for many other items. Also, what's the point of resurrection effects again? To prolong the amount of time people waste sitting around?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Lathander » Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:43 am

To keep folks like me from twinking ress? :)

Lath
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Postby kiryan » Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:16 pm

eil,

all i'm saying is that ideas/suggestions should NOT be evaluated based on the attitude, reputation and amount of ass kissing a person has done and rather SHOULD be based on the merits of the idea.
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Postby Eilistraee » Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:44 pm

kiryan wrote:eil,

all i'm saying is that ideas/suggestions should NOT be evaluated based on the attitude, reputation and amount of ass kissing a person has done and rather SHOULD be based on the merits of the idea.


There literally is no post in any forum other than general discussion that I do not open to examine. If I dislike the tone of something, and I mean truly dislike it rather than just a whim, I won't even take the time to see if it's an idea with merit. If you cannot (and I mean in general, not just Kiryan) take the modicum of effort required to use basic courtesy to express your point, I will not take the time to read your trash and see if there is a diamond in the rough.

We aren't expecting asskissing. We aren't expecting sucking up. Very basic courtesies like please, thank you and refraining from lacing your commentary with accusations of idiocy, incompetance and whatever other explitives are bursting to break free. That's all that is needed.

If that's not within your personality to be able to accomodate, I'm sorry. Your best recourse in that case is to find yourself an intermediary who can translate your vitriol-laden request/suggestion/idea into a civil tone.
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Postby Dalar » Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:36 pm

Can you please remove resurrection effects? All they do is prolong raids. There is nothing wrong with having to res tanks and have them ready to fight. Nobody will do it since experience is HORRIBLE to do. If a caster dies, they're already out for 5 minutes to remem.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Lathander » Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:43 am

An idea is important, but so is the source and the manner in which that idea is given.

Weren't ress effects already lowered alot from where they used to be? Also, doesn't bard song lower it still? Also, there should be some penalty for ress since there is little xp penalty and no chance of ability loss penalty. Now, you could make the argument that Revive should have little or no ress effects. Thoughts on that?
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Postby ssar » Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:42 am

Hsoj wrote: to the magma group,
Was the eq +style at all?


Only the bag we got was mega +style of the stuff we got, I thought.
The boots' ansi kinda sucked, and the crown's ansi was even worse (very bland I thought). The ring seemed ok. Except in all these items the number of items and quality of stats of them was really dissapointing after such a long hunt (and I wasn't even there for the early part).

I'll look forward to seeing how the proposed changes go etc., as the idea of that zone is really cool I think.

P.S. and oh, "raid" is a brand of insect repellant and a term used in crappier/pkill MUDs.
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Postby Sarell » Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:27 am

Since a discussion about res creapt in here, boggle!.. res has huge penalty effects. I lost 75% on my shaman the other day in spob. That's like a full work day of just exp, three times as long as it took to do the zone :| Changing the balance of tables so that it was easy to get to 46 making top level exp.. well top heavy, really hurt high level character, specially those that fail most resses...

um... Upgrade trophy downgrade tables!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TOUCH
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Postby Lilira » Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:34 pm

I'm all for removing revive effects. Then people at least get a choice.. (considering there have been times in zone I've told people to just toss some presses on me cus I didn't want the ress time atm.)

As for removing ress fx... Bard song already really helps, and I know for sure that if your skills are maxed for the song, it helps even more.

Now if we could just get a cheezy wooden flute added to minor create... *wink*

*Ducks as the huge resounding echo of agreement from any bard who has done spob echos through the room...*
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Postby Dalar » Thu Nov 10, 2005 5:53 pm

To be honest, I don't really care about res effects because I don't zone. Go do a difficult zone and tell me how much of the time is just redoing spells or waiting on res effects. Then, tell me how the zone would have been without res effects. Why do the gods want people wasting their time sitting around?

Need an admin to start a poll
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Hsoj » Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:01 pm

TorilMud, The Sojourner's Blackhole of Time
-waitin' for the ferries
-waitin' on res lag
-waitin' on spells after every fight
-waitin' on tiamat
-waitin' on zones to have comparable eq

notice a trend?

and yet I still will spend hours of each day here and love every minute of it!

You have just learned something new about patience!
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Postby Lahgen » Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:29 pm

One way to handle ress fx would be to remove it, yet make ress less likely to succeed.

Though if ress fx were removed, bards would have to get something to replace their quested song.
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Postby Lilira » Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:11 pm

BITE YOUR TONGUE!!! :P

I fail ress often enough without them making it WORSE!!!
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Postby Lahgen » Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:15 pm

So? Just means you'd have to xp more. *tease*

I was only providing an alternative to ress fx, because we can't just take out stuff from the game just because it's an inconvenience.
Kesena OOC: 'i wish my daddy bought me power tools'

Dorgh group-says 'damn, even with Cofen helping Mori, they STILL can't kill someone

Hekanut says 'I know level doesn't matter much, but most won't take seriously if a level 2 claims to be the best thing before, during, and after sliced bread.'



Rather than seeing "subpar race/class," see "challenge."
Corth
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Postby Corth » Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:49 pm

back in my day, when you failed res you lost 10 con points and your bank account was wiped clean
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
Tanji Smanji
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:19 am

This thread pretty effectively explains why there's fewer and fewer players.

P.S. What ever happened to the melee changes that were in the works back when I stopped playing? The ones that would justify the item changes and bring melee back into line with casters. :p
How to go from Waelos to Weylarii.

Weylarii group-says 'oh shit! my penis is stuck in the toaster. afk'

Corth ASSOC:: 'up to you.. need a ranger, but if you want to afk i can probably find someone else'
Sarell
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Postby Sarell » Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:12 am

I love mud.

I think res effects and the other things listed add a sense of realism and atmosphere to Toril. A reason not to FIC every battle. To think about what your doing and play to the best of your skills not just the quickest hack and slash.
Arishae group-says 'mah sunray brings all the boys to the yard'
Shadow Scream
Corth
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Postby Corth » Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:28 am

There definately has to be a penalty for res.. perhaps even a greater one than we currently have. But using time as a penalty is not the greatest idea with respect to playability.

Corth
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
Salen
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Postby Salen » Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:37 am

One of those cool rings loads on a rareload halfling enchanter I think.
emote Rescuepractice
Lilira
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Postby Lilira » Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:58 am

Mmm.. con reduce.. Poor Gartra had a 41 con from all her failed resses... back before the 1 (2?) year shutdown.
Hsoj
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Postby Hsoj » Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:08 pm

what's FIC?

Image
-==~ Tafah Auvry'ar'lyl | Fatah Fire Bath ~==-
Vigis
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Location: Brisbane, Australia

Postby Vigis » Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:04 pm

F*CK IT CHARGE!
Nerox tells you 'Good deal, the other tanks I have don't wanna do it, and since your my special suicidal tank i figure you don't mind one bit!'

Alurissi tells you 'aren't you susposed to get sick or something and not beable to make tia so i can go? :P'
Llaaldara
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Location: Dobluth Kyor

Postby Llaaldara » Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:23 pm

Tanji Smanji wrote:This thread pretty effectively explains why there's fewer and fewer players.

P.S. What ever happened to the melee changes that were in the works back when I stopped playing? The ones that would justify the item changes and bring melee back into line with casters. :p


Agreed.
Tasan
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Postby Tasan » Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:53 pm

Tanji Smanji wrote:This thread pretty effectively explains why there's fewer and fewer players.

P.S. What ever happened to the melee changes that were in the works back when I stopped playing? The ones that would justify the item changes and bring melee back into line with casters. :p


I thought you were around when Khanjari quest came in?
Danahg tells you 'yeah, luckily i kept most of it in my mouth and nasal membranes, ugh'



Dlur group-says 'I have a dead horse that I'm dragging down the shaft with my 4 corpses. Anyone want to help me beat it?'



Calladuran: There are other games to play if you want to play with yourself.
Hsoj
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Postby Hsoj » Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:18 pm

Tasan wrote:
Tanji Smanji wrote:This thread pretty effectively explains why there's fewer and fewer players.

P.S. What ever happened to the melee changes that were in the works back when I stopped playing? The ones that would justify the item changes and bring melee back into line with casters. :p


I thought you were around when Khanjari quest came in?


*roaring laughter* thank you, work was stressin' me out
-==~ Tafah Auvry'ar'lyl | Fatah Fire Bath ~==-

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