Latest Magma Run (Second time done since dragon changes)

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Tanji Smanji
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Sat Nov 12, 2005 12:52 am

Tasan wrote:
Tanji Smanji wrote:This thread pretty effectively explains why there's fewer and fewer players.

P.S. What ever happened to the melee changes that were in the works back when I stopped playing? The ones that would justify the item changes and bring melee back into line with casters. :p


I thought you were around when Khanjari quest came in?


I was. And whenever an item is used to balance(overpower) a class then class balance is somewhat of an issue.

Plus I didn't say rogue changes, I said melee changes.
How to go from Waelos to Weylarii.

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Postby Tasan » Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:11 pm

That's what I'm referring to. Melee is only rogue, didn't you know?
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:55 pm

oh, no :(
How to go from Waelos to Weylarii.



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Corth ASSOC:: 'up to you.. need a ranger, but if you want to afk i can probably find someone else'
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Postby Gerad » Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:06 am

Yeah yet again I feel the need to defend my zone (or myself) in some format.

Gear was undeniably bad-ass (almost each piece was the best or equivalent zoneable gear in the game) when I made it. Fit dug's zone writeup letter for letter.

Someone nerfed it after it was approved.

I made it to be hard and have good stuff. It was supposed to be stupid-ass hard actually (when I wrote it I didnt think it was actually do-able and that it might need some kind of revision), and have really, really good gear.

HINT (and you wont often get these from zone writers): Pay attention to what your killing! Your probably agroing quest mobs.

The rareloads also seem to be borked but some of it was really rare-load intentionally.

So it wasnt always "Gay-ma" (thanks for that) but someone nerfed it into inexplicable crap.

I hope someday it can be the really sweet grid that it was designed to be and WAS on test. (and could be if the exits werent screwed up by the converter - there are not supposed to be ANY small rooms or one-ways)

Anyway, back to life in the MMO world.

Hopefully someday I will have a taste for mudding once again.

-Gerad / Lathander (briefly)

EDIT: Just a note on this post, I was not aware of the changes made to it in the last two years that I had been gone. Its much better now. See below for my plans to improve it.
Last edited by Gerad on Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Gerad » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:13 pm

So good news to all... got ahold of one of those that be, and I should be rollin' on fixing magma pretty soon.

WAY open to suggestions :)

Anything you KNOW to be not working or broken please let me know via forum PM.
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These are the pale deaths, which men miscall their lives

All this I cannot bear to witness any longer

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Postby Sarell » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:17 pm

But marthammor finally got it all fixed, plz don't come back and break it man :P
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Postby Gerad » Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:01 pm

Nah, anything I do will benefit you. Alot has been fixed, I will mostly be looking at the EQ and working with what gives what rewards and where it is placed. I might even add a bit on to it as well :)

Nearly everything will be based on player feedback so dont be afraid to PM me with ideas/suggestions.
<I>When a man lies, he murders some part of the world

These are the pale deaths, which men miscall their lives

All this I cannot bear to witness any longer

Cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home?</I>
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Postby Thilindel » Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:22 pm

It does bum me out to see someone who put all that time and effort into making a zone, then having someone make fun of it. From what I've learned, once you've written a zone, the eq is out of your hands as far as control.
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Postby Sarell » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:16 am

I'd suggest actually take a look at how the zone is now, what rewards it gives, what rewards other zones give before making any changes. Maybe smite it with a group. Magma has changed significantly since you left, with changes to loads, stats, bug in corner of zone, zone connections, what loads on single mobs, and dragons and drakes being massively upgraded. Marthamor has done a really good job getting it where it is now, I'd leave it be, maybe make some more arrows load in that quest. I'm not entirely sure on every stat of every quested item but on the run I did it looked good (after most recent item changes).
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Postby Gerad » Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:58 am

There wont be any excessive changes to the layout of the zone or the mobs present. A few things might be added or removed but in general it should feel the same.

The aim is to improve the zone, not just to make it different.

Being overly general, here is my general train of thought on magma:

Cross-bidding is not fun. Players shouldnt have to trade cleric gear for hitter gear or anything of the sort in the quests.

Getting annihilated just for walking into a room is not fun. I am already set to receive feedback on a certain fight after the next run.

Twiking is not fun (twinkable items get downgraded and thats no fun for people who actually do the zone). Anything currently twinkable will be fixed and the appropriate item will be reviewed.

Zones with too much goodie gear are not fun for evils. There should be an equal ammount for all. (this may mean adding more items with the same 'swap' concept)

Equipment stats need looking at in general.
<I>When a man lies, he murders some part of the world

These are the pale deaths, which men miscall their lives

All this I cannot bear to witness any longer

Cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home?</I>
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Postby Dalar » Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:21 am

what's the update on this zone. still lame?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Dalar » Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:17 pm

From what I hear, yes.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Teyaha » Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:28 pm

Gerad wrote:
Zones with too much goodie gear are not fun for evils. There should be an equal ammount for all. (this may mean adding more items with the same 'swap' concept)

.


it would be a better long term idea if you all stopped using these flags on anything anymore

anti-evil, anti-good, anti-neutral - toss 'em
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Postby Ambar » Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:13 am

Teyaha wrote:
Gerad wrote:
Zones with too much goodie gear are not fun for evils. There should be an equal ammount for all. (this may mean adding more items with the same 'swap' concept)

.


it would be a better long term idea if you all stopped using these flags on anything anymore

anti-evil, anti-good, anti-neutral - toss 'em


Err .. ?
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Postby Teyaha » Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:06 am

why the ?

lets look at the recent discussions about how to improve toril.

make evils playable was one right? but if half the new zones have gear that's anti-evil or anti-evilrace, why would they bother?

efhr...evil female human rogue...all that anti good gear...


it all just adds to the long term problem


i know 2.0 addresses this by removing pretty mcuh all class restrictions on gear, but with most of the better gear designed for evil align good races..why bother ever rolling evil?
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Postby Gormal » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:59 am

Gear was never the reason that the evil population went down the toilet. It was because after the core few players that were good took off, evils became a collection of underskilled people struggling to do the things that goodies could do easily. In addition, as much as evilrace players touted their helpfulness, it just never compared to what most people found on the other side.

Now its become a problem of "why go evil and do next to nothing when I can go goodie and have an easy time getting loot and running zones?"
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Postby Disoputlip » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:52 am

Here is a free advice to make the zone beeing done.

Make the rares locatable. Just like airplane is checked for the elven cloak and then sometimes done if the cloak loads then I think a lot of players would try and get a group going if a few of the rares also was there a weekend.

I am not sure how that would affect the rare factor and points of the zone etc. but there is nothing that motivates like a little bait.
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Postby Teyaha » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:21 pm

Gormal wrote:Gear was never the reason that the evil population went down the toilet. It was because after the core few players that were good took off, evils became a collection of underskilled people struggling to do the things that goodies could do easily. In addition, as much as evilrace players touted their helpfulness, it just never compared to what most people found on the other side.

Now its become a problem of "why go evil and do next to nothing when I can go goodie and have an easy time getting loot and running zones?"



and that flies in the face of the entire point of evil races.

what was the point of evil races? more hardships?

but in a GAME, the hardships should be balanced with greater power at the end game

greater power that just is not there

zones that are a challenge for goodies should be easier for evils - becaue they have to deal with retarded game mechanics that have no real function other than to punish the player - more cast-offs from the mystra regime. dayblind? means if yo uare doing any zone that isnt indoors or in the UD you had better have a psi as fogging every room is not practical. mobs that breathe or cast fire? well, no trolls for you unless they have insane spell saves

most of the original evils from outcast toril 1-soj2 that rolled evil again during sojourn 3 left the game outright not long after hittign 50 and doing a few zones. the first orc shaman (cant remember name) the first snake enchanter (ossis), etc. all straight left the game - many for WoW or just for real life. nothing can be done about that really

but others left and rolled goodie at the same time. evils, never really having a pbase big enough to ever field more than one zone group, couldnt afford to lose any bodies really. i too was one of those lured away by WoW raiding and other mmorpg's.

as of today, the disadvantages evil races ahve far outweigh the one or two second mem times, the 30 or 40 more hp at 50, or the innates that dont actually give an advantage in any zone. give them real, tangible power and perhaps people will play them again

give them the kind of power that makes magma a cake-walk for experienced players if they are evil race.
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Postby kwirl » Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:44 am

Corth wrote:Dalar is on the right track.

Nobody gives a shit about the power gamers here.



i went back to duris a long time ago, taking a break now to get RL sorted until the january duris pwipe comes. woot!
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Postby Lalsed » Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:02 pm

Where did I go? I played WoW for a long time, on Darkspear US, and had a lot of fun but it got old and I got way too busy, so nothing for me for now..


Supposedly Gerad's account (he wrote the zone) doesn't work; he wanted me to post this...

Hello, glad to see someone is still interested in my zone. When I made it, I balanced the gear to match the point system that Dug had
laid out at the time, the gear went into test and before it was imp'd 'someone' (and I really don't know who) changed all of the gear.

I don't care anymore so here goes: (edited out by Shar)

There is an entire story to magma, all of those quest mobs talk, if you listen and pay attention the keywords are easy to figure out.

A lot of the problem is the way the code works, and at the time it was OK but changes were made to what dragons are, that being said I made
the zone to be exactly what a lot of you see it to be: a long brawl against dragons. Magma is not for casual encounters, Dresk was meant in
a way to be some sort of a surrogate for Taiamat when Tia was not in the game.

I hope that some of you have enjoyed magma. There are a lot of quest swaps and rareload items that you have not found.

If an imm wants to fix it, you need to rebalance the gear for the risk Yes, it needs items that fit niche's that other places in the game
cannot, and rings/etc that are BETTER than other locations or nobody will go do a fight that is that difficult. The rock ring originally
.was. the best ring in the game, and balanced on 'the sheet', and someone changed all of my gear stats so that the zone isn't worth it
anymore. You need to make 'signed orders from the sultan' drop off the sultan in brass. You need to fix any one-way rooms as there aren't
supposed to be any. There weren't in my writeup - the translator fucked it all up.

I loved Sojourn since the first incarnation, I have long since departed from it and will likely never return. Thank you to my friends,
if anyone see's Trewe tell him Gerad said hi. Also thanks to Dug for his hard work helping me get the zone together, it never would have
been .anything. at all without him.

Peace, Gerad.
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Postby Gerad2 » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:23 am

I guess that I do still care. I dug this up in gmail... will fix a missing quest.

#338
magma.zon
----
O 0 33821 1 25086 25
*
M 0 33816 1 33895 20
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Postby Shevarash » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:28 am

You can get in contact with the Areas sphere by emailing toril.areas@gmail.com
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Postby Dalar » Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:07 am

Nobody does your zone because it's too long and drawn. I've never been there myself, but I trust that the people I still play with know what they're talking about.

I wouldn't feel proud at all that your zone is done because it's too "difficult" because it's more about "there's too much crap to kill and fighting dragons is a fight against the RNG". The equipment is defintely worth it and whoever makes maxagi/hp gear are geniuses who actually know how to stat gear. If it were my zone I would at least try to get it fixed so people actually see it. It's a shame that so many zones have become obsolete by the ezmode fest zones that have come in the WoW years.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Gormal » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:51 am

Magma always bored the crap out of me. There's no variety until you get to Drek, and then its more boring in/out stuff.
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Postby kiryan » Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:30 pm

I enjoyed Magma even when it was stupid hard and the gear sucked ballz.

Thanks for creating the zone.

Does every zone have to be well balanced? Can't we do some stupid hard zones for fun? Can't we have some easy zones that people race to?
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Postby moritheil » Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:45 am

Dalar wrote:The equipment is defintely worth it and whoever makes maxagi/hp gear are geniuses who actually know how to stat gear.


So, it's a good thing that people work the system? I thought the huge backlash against Izan's was caused by min/maxing gear.
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Postby Dalar » Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:54 am

moritheil wrote:
Dalar wrote:The equipment is defintely worth it and whoever makes maxagi/hp gear are geniuses who actually know how to stat gear.


So, it's a good thing that people work the system? I thought the huge backlash against Izan's was caused by min/maxing gear.


Can you please explain what you're saying? I wasn't around for 3 years and am unaware of Izan's bitching.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Sarell » Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:27 am

Magma is still neat since marthamor fixed it up as per post several years ago! :P If anything, the 5 hours of dragons at magma isn't what is broke.
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Postby kiryan » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:54 pm

Izans supposedly was based on the eq calcr and created some of the best equipment in the game for relatively little time investment and risk. It did this primarily by making eq "sets" where each piece in the load set was "rare" getting a reduction in the eq calcr cost for being rare, yet one piece always loaded which made it more random than rare.

The only part I question is if it was actually based on the eq calcr.
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Postby Dalar » Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:31 pm

Too bad that stuff is so rare now we never see nickels.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Gerad2 » Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:06 am

moritheil wrote:
Dalar wrote:The equipment is defintely worth it and whoever makes maxagi/hp gear are geniuses who actually know how to stat gear.


So, it's a good thing that people work the system? I thought the huge backlash against Izan's was caused by min/maxing gear.


I logged in the other night and saw your corpse at turning point... nice to see that some things .never. change :)
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Postby Dalar » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:03 am

This thing ever gonna get made easier than Tiamat?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby torkur » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:13 pm

If you raised the group limit in magma to 20 people, I bet that would fix the time AND make it worthwhile since the gear isn't bad statwise. Might have to raise some of the rares or make them load during boot too, I'm not as up on how rare they are as it's not done to check now that I know of.
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Postby Dalar » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:25 pm

I agree and the same for choking palace as well!
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Pril » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:30 pm

20 people 4 items... :p
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Postby torkur » Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:05 am

Pril wrote:20 people 4 items... :p


If you raised the group limit in magma to 20 people, I bet that would fix the time AND make it worthwhile since the gear isn't bad statwise. Might have to raise some of the rares or make them load during boot too, I'm not as up on how rare they are as it's not done to check now that I know of.


GF is 4-5 items and takes 1-3 hours depending on group. If Magma could be done with 20 (standard group + 5 twinktastic rangers to speed up dragons) and you had a good chance of a rare or three thrown in, I'd go to that for an evening of fun if it took 2-3 hours. Hell, magma has 10000000% better ansi and the gear is debatably better in the slots it goes for (rogue boots, tank boots, magma ring).
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Postby Sarell » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:53 am

Magma isn't as hard as it used to be. Less dresk lovers, more powerful players. It's even rather fun if you lead it right, you can make fighting pretty solid and constant with a good scout and illusionist who is at the keys.

It's just convincing someone who want's general good gear to do it over tiamat or golem forge. If you specifically wan't magma boots to complete your set it's worth doing it for them. Problem is with so many good items loading in zones designed similar to SpoB, then Izan's, then GF, tia... it starts to reduce the point of going to any other zones for most people who just wan't to get something cool and smite stuff.
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