Tiamat

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
kiryan
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Tiamat

Postby kiryan » Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:22 pm

November 2006, i mean 2005.
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Postby Lathander » Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:35 pm

Actually, I'd say we're getting closer everyday.
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Postby Tasan » Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:26 pm

Kiryan, stop posting about Tiamat. Frankly with the pbase the way it is now, even if it's put in it won't get done.

Work on something for the people that stayed...
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Postby kiryan » Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:05 pm

you wanna bet tasan?

i bet you at least 15 people who havent played in 6 months will show up within 2 weeks of tiamat going in. you will have no problem making tiamat groups in the first 6 weeks of it going in. If its possible to win, people will farm tiamat for at least 6 months.
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Postby Ragorn » Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:11 pm

And they'll do Tiamat twice and quit again.
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Postby Dalar » Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:27 pm

kiryan wrote:you wanna bet tasan?

i bet you at least 15 people who havent played in 6 months will show up within 2 weeks of tiamat going in. you will have no problem making tiamat groups in the first 6 weeks of it going in. If its possible to win, people will farm tiamat for at least 6 months.


Why would anyone want to do this? If it took them this long to put Tiamat out, why would I want to spend my time getting equipment that will be used for the next zone that comes out in 2008. When Tiamat came out back in the DSR/Imphras/CC/OD days, it was a big nostalgia for alot of the old members. Most of them really don't care about this MUD anymore. If anything, people will try to do it once, notice how lame dragons are now, and leave again.

A game needs character progression and/or ways to get rid of money and equipment. This game has no character progression past 50 except for eqiupment, and that's not that great because of the equipment calculator which doesn't even work very well (it doesn't even work on WoW either).
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Ifin » Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:54 pm

I agree with Ragorn and Dalar.

That's why I've been trying to think of eq-sinks that would make sense (restrings/epic quests/guild halls).

And (don't know how to quote) "This game has no character progression past 50 except for eqiupment", that's why I figure something like guild halls would do more to spurn activity and retain players than something like Tiamat would.

Any chance we could have a word on when guild halls might be re-implemented?
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Postby Dalar » Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:13 pm

Competition might be good for the MUD too. I can honestly say that Duris' pve (player vs environment) system is superior to Toril's in every aspect. Things are fast paced and fun. Durability on equipment and the threat of pvp destroying random items on pvp death keeps people zoning. Artifacts are rare load in zones, but can be scryed for a price by a mob. Artifacts/uniques need to be "fed" by completing zones and touching monoliths or pvping.

You guys shouldn't say "oh well then play duris". YOu should think "how can we make our game just as good or better than that".
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Corth » Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:38 pm

Who knows, maybe if gameplay and balance issues were addressed we might have an increasing pbase. But i still get the impression that when it comes to this mud, gameplay is secondary to the social aspects. Its kind of lonely being dartan, myself and a very few others. Still trolling these boards when all the people who would agree with us have long since given up and left the place to the social !hardcore mudders.

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Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

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Postby Shevarash » Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:41 am

Progression has been slow the last couple of years, I'll not deny it. That hardly means that I don't care about the deep gameplay issues that need addressing.

Things have changed for me personally, and I now have a much greater amount of time to spend improving this MUD, which I care deeply about.

But don't take my word for it - the proof will be in the pudding.

Thank you all for your patience.
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Postby Shevarash » Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:46 am

Oh yeah, one more thing -

Tiamat will be in soon.
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Postby Thilindel » Sat Nov 19, 2005 3:05 am

One thing I really liked about a certain mud was the specialization options for any one class. I've made several of those type suggestions here, but some shrug them off. It was QUITE fun exploring kits.. Thing that I really like about Toril is 1) our favorite druid, 2) staff that keep pushing to make the mud expand etc, and lastly. . no fear of PK :P
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Postby Corth » Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:47 am

Shevarash wrote:Progression has been slow the last couple of years, I'll not deny it. That hardly means that I don't care about the deep gameplay issues that need addressing.

Things have changed for me personally, and I now have a much greater amount of time to spend improving this MUD, which I care deeply about.

But don't take my word for it - the proof will be in the pudding.

Thank you all for your patience.


Shev:

I actually appreciate what you are saying a lot. I am glad that you are acknowledging that there are serious gameplay issues that have long since needed to be resolved. I believe you are being forthright that you intend to work on these issues now that you have more time.

But here is what I don't get. Why is the progression of this mud solely dependent upon your rl schedule? I realize you are a forger, but surely you would acknowledge that the mud is bigger than any one person including yourself. There are (and were) many talented people (both gods and mortals) who would be more than willing to pick up the slack. I have not seen, however, any effort to even begin making use of this resource, and I believe that the mud has suffered greatly as a result.

Now I'm not saying that you should hand over the mud to anyone, I'm just wondering why some of the grunt work can't be delegated during times when you are too busy to do it yourself. I know that someone without experience cannot just appear out of nowhere and start producing a lot of good work. But on the other hand, why haven't we been training coders all this time since the current incarnation started?

I think this is ultimately my major gripe with the way things turned out here. Notwithstanding what Shar said about me, I have a lot of love for this place (even if I don't play anymore). Maybe the distance of not playing every day has given me some perspective, or maybe it has taken some away. Regardless, all I know is that I have not seen much of an attempt to improve the mud since this incarnation began, and I think its been a very large missed opportunity.


Corth
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Postby Dalar » Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:52 am

All you really have to do is let people go to you with ideas and let them do it or not.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Cyric » Sat Nov 19, 2005 4:29 pm

Not sure what to make of Dalar's thoughts, other than to say that we routinely take new coders, area makers, and admins, and we have recruited much the same way we have for the past 10 years that I've been here. Getting coders/writers/admins isn't all that hard. Getting ones that are any good and are willing to stay isn't. I'm positive that Shev would welcome any new coders with open arms, as I'm always happy to "employ" new writers.

Realistically writing/coding takes time, it's not reimbursed, and everyone's busy. No fault anywhere other than in life. I have this recurring dream of striking it filthy rich in the lottery, and paying everyone a big fat salary to work here...wouldn't that be sweet? Of course I'd be willing to take bribes which would probably ruin everything, but hey...
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Postby Corth » Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:47 pm

I don't know Cyric.. I haven't seen any attempt made to find coders. Nobody has posted 'hey we need coders, apply to shev'.

I guess I just have a hard time believing that the only way this mud can progress is if Shevarash has time irl. Maybe i'm still remembering the days when we had a pbase 250-300 person strong. But I can't believe we are so small now that there is only one person who has the capacity and desire to get anything substantial done on this mud.

Corth
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Postby Thilindel » Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:09 pm

since the thread went from tiamat to 'goals' in general, I really think character kits or some other non run-in-the-mill capacity for classes would help. Specialization gives lots of avenues to replay the same class and make it different all over.
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Postby Tasan » Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:41 pm

Cyric wrote:Not sure what to make of Dalar's thoughts, other than to say that we routinely take new coders, area makers, and admins, and we have recruited much the same way we have for the past 10 years that I've been here. Getting coders/writers/admins isn't all that hard. Getting ones that are any good and are willing to stay isn't. I'm positive that Shev would welcome any new coders with open arms, as I'm always happy to "employ" new writers.

Realistically writing/coding takes time, it's not reimbursed, and everyone's busy. No fault anywhere other than in life. I have this recurring dream of striking it filthy rich in the lottery, and paying everyone a big fat salary to work here...wouldn't that be sweet? Of course I'd be willing to take bribes which would probably ruin everything, but hey...


Putting a curb on the amount of cheating going on would be a great start to keeping people here as writers. I know for one I don't want to spend hours writing a zone that's secrets are blabbed to all the friend's of the person who did the walkthrough.
Danahg tells you 'yeah, luckily i kept most of it in my mouth and nasal membranes, ugh'



Dlur group-says 'I have a dead horse that I'm dragging down the shaft with my 4 corpses. Anyone want to help me beat it?'



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Postby Cyric » Sat Nov 19, 2005 9:50 pm

I hear and I feel your pain. But having more coders won't change the overall dynamic of the game playerbase. I started back when we had 200+ players at a time, and Gond was the one and only coder, and he wasn't all that productive at all. And if you think of the features we had back then, we're light years ahead of that.

As far as the cheating goes, it's been a problem in the past, and I try to nip it in the bud when I have proof. Again, I feel your pain. As Shevy says, trust us, watch what we do, and please continue to be nice to the true newbies who have been slowly trickling in.
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Postby Teyaha » Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:08 am

will evils be able to field 30 people for this?
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Postby Dalar » Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:42 am

will goodies be able to field 30?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Sarell » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:03 am

Let's find out on Friday 6pm EST... continuing Saturday I suspect!

...mwrite Sarli your interest in this group.
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Postby Lahgen » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:41 am

Dalar wrote:will goodies be able to field 30?


Only if you take noobs like me.

But don't worry, Tia scares me, I won't ask to join. :p
Kesena OOC: 'i wish my daddy bought me power tools'
Dorgh group-says 'damn, even with Cofen helping Mori, they STILL can't kill someone
Hekanut says 'I know level doesn't matter much, but most won't take seriously if a level 2 claims to be the best thing before, during, and after sliced bread.'

Rather than seeing "subpar race/class," see "challenge."
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Postby Llaaldara » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:00 am

Teyaha wrote:will evils be able to field 30 people for this?


Dalar wrote:will goodies be able to field 30?


Good... Bad.. will Toril?
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:15 pm

Doom and gloom..sheesh, just group up and go have fun, ya negative nancies. :)
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Postby Drache » Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:37 pm

*gasp* Don't take lahgen! He'll just waste a Tia-item on one of his female RP alts :P
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Postby Sarell » Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:44 am

If there's 29 in the group and you have a 50 ranger your coming :P

I'm not guaranteeing we will win, but we will have fun I'm sure. Main goal is to see tiamat, and if possible, touch her without losing all my gear.
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Postby Nekelet » Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:48 am

Sarell wrote: touch her without losing all my gear.


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Postby Lahgen » Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:56 am

Drache wrote:*gasp* Don't take lahgen! He'll just waste a Tia-item on one of his female RP alts :P


You're forgetting that most of those female RP alts, once they get zonable, will be more useful than Lahgen. :p
Kesena OOC: 'i wish my daddy bought me power tools'

Dorgh group-says 'damn, even with Cofen helping Mori, they STILL can't kill someone

Hekanut says 'I know level doesn't matter much, but most won't take seriously if a level 2 claims to be the best thing before, during, and after sliced bread.'



Rather than seeing "subpar race/class," see "challenge."
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Postby Sarell » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:06 am

At the request of many parties, both players and godly advice, and with love for the west coasters, we are moving tiamat to the saturday! Which means we can start a bit earlier! 4pm _EST_ Saturday!
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Idea...

Postby Zogur » Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:14 pm

Since there are already specific group codings for this Tiamat zone, can we make it so goodies and evils can join forces in there?

Just my old evil heart roaring every now and then I guess...

Zogur
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Postby Teyaha » Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:06 pm

Shevarash wrote:Doom and gloom..sheesh, just group up and go have fun, ya negative nancies. :)


if it's all goodies, no can do. my only chars are a 47 drow chanter and 48 snake warlock. :(
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Postby Birile » Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:20 am

Actually, the evils have a point. They'll never get to do Tiamat if we don't suspend the group restrictions. Just a thought... *beg*
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Re: Idea...

Postby Ambar » Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:32 am

Zogur wrote:Since there are already specific group codings for this Tiamat zone, can we make it so goodies and evils can join forces in there?

Just my old evil heart roaring every now and then I guess...

Zogur


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Postby Lahgen » Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:41 am

Just my .02...

It would make some sense for good and evils to work together on this, given how they teamed up to fight the Vile One. I know that was RP there, but the idea has some precedent.
Kesena OOC: 'i wish my daddy bought me power tools'

Dorgh group-says 'damn, even with Cofen helping Mori, they STILL can't kill someone

Hekanut says 'I know level doesn't matter much, but most won't take seriously if a level 2 claims to be the best thing before, during, and after sliced bread.'



Rather than seeing "subpar race/class," see "challenge."

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