Corpse of Tiamat is lying here. (magic)

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Shar
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Corpse of Tiamat is lying here. (magic)

Postby Shar » Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:50 am

SUCCESS!!!

The first group through the NEW Tiamat found victory and honor on the severe battlefront.

14+ hours in a challenging and exciting zone, well over 300 corpses, 30+ player participants, countless spells, mems, prays, and new discoveries!

All the staff send out congratz to the lucky, brave few who took on this challenge and BEAT IT! It was not easy. We are proudly impressed with the effort and teamwork that went into conquering this challenge.

All in all it was a smooth trip. Especially considering the difficulty of a zone on this level. We had 2 crashes, one related to the zone, one not, and an emergency reboot which happened immediately before the group entered the zone, which proved to be good timing.

We have found several bugs which will be addressed, but we have also noted several tweaks, to make things both easier and harder. We will be fixing Tiamat herself to be a bit harder, since she was not functioning properly to begin with, and maybe this time you'll get to see *all* her procs. *whistle*

EQ load is not a random event, rather a well planned out assortment which varies. There is a level of randomness to it, but it isnt as simple as selecting a number of pieces eq from a pool to load. Eventually, you'll get to see it all.

Not everything was found this time through, and now that its over for this boot, not everything *will* be found. Keep your eyes open. You are missing something! Better luck next time. :)

Feedback is welcome and desired on all aspects of this zone. We will of course be using your recomendations to adjust the eq and the mobs/zone function. So please consider what you have to say and post it here.

Thank you to all of you and, good luck to the next of you! :)
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Postby Corth » Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:28 pm

Congrats to Sarell and the rest of the people who fought.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

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Postby Malia » Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:21 pm

Just like to take the time to thank everyone that helped with that zone, it was a great zone and alot of fun and for most part think everyone stayed at keys the whole time.. through crashes and downtime.

Zone was REALY well done i feel and was very rewarding to finish. Thank you so much for that, was worth the wait!
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Postby Dranth » Sun Nov 27, 2005 4:02 pm

Fear the Ancint Dragons!
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Postby torkur » Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:03 pm

That looked awesome, although I only stayed up until 3 am to watch the wife doing it, good job on the zone and theme and making it seem hard and not lame. :)

One thing I would suggest since she and a couple others sounded a little annoyed that they did the entire 16 hour zone and still lost bids on the the items to people who only did tiamat herself would be to load restring tokens like "a divine transmorgification potion" or such to round out the load to 30 items for 30 people.

This would not change the "stats" of the eq they currently own, so noone can complain it's overpowered, but it would still give them "something" for the accomplishment. Something along the lines of a "I went to tiamat and all I got was this lowsy t-shirt" type prize.

At the same time, if someone repeatedly goes to tiamat and loses the bids, they still get to change an item of their current eq and make it special for themselves-god checked for validity of course. While I don't suggest this for any other zone, watching that many dragons die should be worth something. Since we all have eq we like that is just _ugly_ sometimes, people could pick a theme they want to look like and it would only take 20 trips to tiamat to accomplish it. :)
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Postby Ashiwi » Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:18 pm

Tia's here to stay this time, and people go to zones knowing there's a chance they might not get anything in the bid. I'm sorry to hear people who were there for the whole zone lost out to people who only showed for the last battle, but that's all based on how the bids are done. Tia used to have a whole bunch of !stat junk items that were really cool, and I'd really love to see those come back. The mirror was gorgeous, and it would have been nice to see it given a special proc and added to the pile.

As it is, Tia's beautiful, the procs are beautiful, the gear is beautiful, and everything about it is beautiful...

Except the rogue gear seems amazingly overpowered. Jeebus. Give me serpent circlet, two khanjaris, haste, called globe, and bard song and I'd rule the world... and I'm not even an efhr. Hell, take away the bard song and I'd still solo half the known continent without being of the particular race/alignment that seems so very favored by the powers that be.
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Postby Thilindel » Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:21 pm

The _only_ reason I can't go is due to the time requirement it takes for the zone. I knew it'd be long, so I had to hide!

What I think would help is if the zones had sub-zones that provided everybody an item. A zone that hard, time consuming should yield all involved something, imho.

That really says something when a zone is so well done that THIRTY people put that kind of time in finishing it :) *cheers* to Shar/Shev, etc!! ..But I was thinking that in a zone so big and powerful, that a ton of stuff would be found along the way, maybe having crazy stats - crazy meaning somewhat good but weird and not overpowered, one of which would make it a nice 'I gave Tiamat a breathmint and lived!' shirt =D
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Postby Ashiwi » Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:34 pm

Thilindel wrote:... one of which would make it a nice 'I gave Tiamat a breathmint and lived!' shirt =D


Did ANYBODY make it through without dying? Last I saw, even the sitter got his ass kicked once or twice.
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Postby kiryan » Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:23 pm

damn damn damn vacations!
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Postby Shevarash » Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:03 pm

Ashiwi wrote:Tia's here to stay this time, and people go to zones knowing there's a chance they might not get anything in the bid. I'm sorry to hear people who were there for the whole zone lost out to people who only showed for the last battle, but that's all based on how the bids are done. Tia used to have a whole bunch of !stat junk items that were really cool, and I'd really love to see those come back. The mirror was gorgeous, and it would have been nice to see it given a special proc and added to the pile.

As it is, Tia's beautiful, the procs are beautiful, the gear is beautiful, and everything about it is beautiful...

Except the rogue gear seems amazingly overpowered. Jeebus. Give me serpent circlet, two khanjaris, haste, called globe, and bard song and I'd rule the world... and I'm not even an efhr. Hell, take away the bard song and I'd still solo half the known continent without being of the particular race/alignment that seems so very favored by the powers that be.


I will look into adding back some of the tshirt items so that more people get *something*.

As for the rogue stuff, well...I told the group last night that we were fully expecting to get alot of feedback about the equipment, and that concerns would be addressed in a timely fashion. I'm sure there are plenty of things that seem too powerful, and some that don't seem powerful enough. We're certainly not going to run rampant with a nerf stick in Tia, but we will make any adjustments neccessary to make sure everything is balanced and worthy of such a difficult ordeal.

Anyhow, I'm really happy that everyone seems to have enjoyed Tia so much...can't wait to watch the next run now! :)
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Postby Dalar » Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:16 pm

Comparing dragonkind to circlet. that much dam/hp/proc vs a small amount of svsp and svbr. Something along the lines of MR/sv br and something to make it a distinct tiamat item would be nice. a proc dragonscale/haste would be nice!
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Postby Ashiwi » Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:39 pm

Just to paint the picture...

I'm a good-aligned elf, so nerfed all to hell compared to what evil humans get on the khanjari procs... I've heard how many attacks they can get in a round.

I can get ten attacks in a round without bardsong, only hasted, and with only one khanjari, plus 71+damroll and all the other niceties that go along with it, including healing.

Now, give a rogue, especially an efhr, two khanjaris, the serpent circlet with its multiple attack proc, called globe, extra assass attempts in a day, and all the other nice procs and stats of tia gear, and what do you have?

How many hits in a round?
How much damroll?
How much healing?
Self-globing, even if it's for only one round?

My only self-contained sour note is if the procs are based on attacks that we're already capable of, then any kind of mulitplier added on top of that might as well be a kick in the teeth to any rogue not of the staff-preferred race and alignment.

Other than that, with all the complaints about the khanjari and rogue skills to begin with, the rest added on top of it just makes for an unbelievable killing machine that's going to garner a hundred new threads for rogue-class downgrades. In this batch of rewards, alone, I count five really nice items with droolicious stats/abilities/procs that are roguable and multiply rogue capabilities by an enormous amount.

If we had more high-powered zones in the game, I could see very valid reasons for the grand jump from the eq power already available in the game to what just landed, but with the way things are now, even the hardest zones are going to look like child's play once enough players get equipped with tia gear.

Everybody has to bitch about something whenever you guys do something nice for us, right? I promise, I'm not bitching, just questioning game, especially rogue, balance with these new additions.
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Postby Gormal » Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:56 pm

I understand that there are tiers of items, I think it'd be easier for people to make comments on stats if they knew which item belonged to which tier of godliness.
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Postby Glorishan » Sun Nov 27, 2005 9:10 pm

Putting in t-shirts for everyone is maybe a good idea. But having everyone get stat'd eq I don't personally like. This was roughly my 25th tia trip, and the first time I've ever won an item (unless you count DSR run when I won the grey-greens that I contributed in the first place :P). I think that with any zone, you go with a chance of not winning. I think leader disgression on how many bids to give people who have come multiple times should play a role, though.
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Postby loshaenar » Sun Nov 27, 2005 9:42 pm

To my comrades from sunday... mighty fine work... i thought the zone was really well put together... some really interesting touches all over.. there were a few points we questioned about the Final Fight(s) but i'm not sure what is permitted to be talked about here...


anyways..it rocked... well done Gods, well done Pat.

DAGOS forever!!!


Tai.
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Postby Yasden » Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:16 am

Just a couple of comments:

Give Isha an extra 10-20 AC, it *is* about body...AC20 is sub-par, even by today's standard warrior wear.

Make shock lance !drop. The description in the item refers to "a sticky sap that keeps the user from dropping it".

That is all!

I had a blast, and maybe next time I won't lose my bid by 1. :P
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Postby muxxissinix » Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:26 am

to Staff: Thanks and Congrats for this really nice zone, good work !!

Congrats Sarell and all the ppl who helped in this victory.
I learned a lot and I had a lot of fun.


Note about "a circling ioun stone of power", this item is !bits and the maxpow is really useful for illithids, my naked squid have 684psp and the item gives 20psp, I think is a bit low.
I avoid use psp gear because mobs like switch to me when I priorize psp over hps :) .
(hoping to be able to play Muxxissinix again)
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Postby Lahgen » Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:02 am

Well, at least the khanjari problem is solved now.
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Postby Sarell » Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:59 am

First up, thanks to everyone who followed me specially those that did the full run. Thanks to those who would of liked to come but were outside the 30 limit, next time!

Loved the new tia. The zone layout and general atmosphere, placement, types and numbers of mobs were spot on. The zone was very hard all the way through. The procs were tasteful and well placed, some really exciting stuff there, they were never silly, over done or just plain annoying which is really cool to see. It took us 16 hours including getting all the corpses back to WD and a lot of them ressed. Obviously this will be cut down on, but it won't get easy.

The 5 dragon fight was the hardest, but it wasn't 'too' hard. It was really difficult and so it should be. Tia was a bit easy, it scared the hell out of us however because it made us think we were doing it wrong and were going to be locked in combat with her for all eternity. I thinkl our group would of smote the last incarnation of tia in about 4 hours, this one is huge.

Gear: The warrior neck thing... it is really cool and can make a warrior that bit better, something special, I don't think we need to go to THAT much AC on neck aswell.

The circlet, that's pretty darn good in a lot of areas. Shrug :)

The cleric eyepath of lots of damage. That's funny, it would suit the paladin kaln perfectly. No one else, but he needs one! It's still a great item aside from the damage.

Quiver could hold a bit more, currently less than musp, it's !stats.

The amount of damroll in general. Interesting. Double other top items of same slot. Tia is pretty hard but people are pretty keen. (PS I'm shocked at the people asking if we going next weekend, your insane)

Highlights!

Shaiith chanting for 6 tanks, 6 rangers, 4 rogues. OMG

"Pava's Gate"

Krabat and Kramel leading the tanks. SOLID

Corth making his own way to Tia! And the quick way out!

6 Rangers who knew to bring good arrows and target! Ranger POWA! This zone also couldn't be completed without 'Adriorn Humour' right the way through :)

People being too tired to vit at tia! *grins*

Peb's pile of corpses, could of climbed them back to Avernus.

Keeping up my stamina leading 30 people for that long straight on the first run of the hardest zone ever and achieving victory. What an honour!
Last edited by Sarell on Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby ssar » Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:42 am

That hunt was awesome.
Even though I won nothing, it was great, and Sarli’s bidding system seemed totally fair.

A major highlight was certainly the sequence when the blue dragon consort is killed, stunning us etc! That really blew me away! A big cheers to the coders of that!

Another was running into a commander who unexpectedly shouted for his buddies.. Oooh the blood!

Was great to see a fair bit of really good stuff for bid, though I still got the feeling that for 30 people (plus a few more including switch-outs partway through) there was room for another 1 or 2 nice items.
Would be nice to see the 2h weapons dice improved, and a few points of svbr, MR & individual prots tossed about more here and there (except on the real uber items of course).
Rogue loving does seem to be a tad beyond the rest – move haste to some tia warrior weapons/items or something instead.
A few !stat but unique type items thrown in might have been cool, especially for the first ever Tiamat run in this era of her/new design area etc.
Overall though, the range of very nice stats and procs is great to see!

The quad shaman group support was interesting – seemed to work pretty good most of the time especially to carry on when 1 or 2 shamans bit it.

Thanks to sarli and all the group for such an epic hunt in the game!

Online mudding over 17 hours straight, over 14 hours on the hunt and a couple of hours after that sorting corpses/resses/eq etc. (that kinda time online for me is difficult these days), Kazur didn’t lose lvl 46 like I suspected he would (but came within striking distance of it with many toward a total pcorpse count of around 350!), and soo keen to do it all again.
Last edited by ssar on Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby dem » Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:53 am

This thread alone makes me wanna level a char to 50!
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Postby Glorishan » Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:50 pm

dem wrote:This thread alone makes me wanna level a char to 50!


Yeah, level 50 would kick ass!
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Tiamat

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:04 pm

Great run, always fun to be able to do Tiamat again. 5 Rangers in any group is always good news :) I think it should also be noted that we had no invokers in the group. Sarell did a fantastic job leading 30 sleep-deprived mudders to beat Tiamat.

Comments:

The zone before was a straight line with a bend at the end. This new zone is just amazing in all possible respects. Mobs, procs, scripts, echos, all excellent. Fantastic job by the writers and coders. Was a pleasure being and doing Tiamat.

I honestly have no complaints about the zone. People complain that there weren't enough items for everyone. Guys, we used to have like 7-8 items to distribute back in the day after we would do Tiamat. This new treasure hoard is excellent. My only SUGGESTION was to perhaps let those who did not win any item to receive a 1-2 point upgrade to one of their main stats (STR, DEX), etc., as a result of engaging in an epic battle. But shrug, no real big deal.

I thought most of the items that loaded this time were excellent items for Tiamat. I do think some were a little TOO powerful, EVEN for Tiamat. They should be looked at in my opinion. I'll discuss one in private later.

I think the patrols need a caster or two to buff them up a little. I know some Tiamat procs were not working, and perhaps they make the big difference, but she was too easy. I think she needs more hitpoints as well, at least her final version.

I had a blast being a part of Tiamat once again, and being able to group with 4 fellow Rangers. Thanks Sarell and Imms for the experience. My wife won't let me forget it either :P

Adriorn Darkcloak
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Postby selerial » Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:31 pm

Grats everyone that went. Also the imms for implementing the zone.

Almost makes me want to dust off my character again, though my mere 120-ish% in to level 50 makes me rather squeamish. ;+)
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Postby Birile » Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:11 am

To reiterate what everyone's said thus far--I had a BLAST. I didn't feel as though I had been zoning for as long as I did, due in large part to the excitement of doing Tiamat, wondering what would happen next, DeathOOC and my cheering section (you know who you are). I didn't win an item and I have no regrets about it, either.

As far as the items goes: I think Shar and/or Shev already stated that the load wasn't completely random, which could explain in large part why there were so many rogueable items in the mix--what, like 4 or 5 rogues and 1 bard were there. There really weren't that many mages in the mix (relatively speaking--1 or 2 enchanters, 1 ele, 0 invokers, 1 necro, 1 lich and an illu for half the time? something like that). In all fairness, probably some more priest items would've been called for with the group we took. Holy shamans, batman!

As for the priest-only eyepiece, any battlechanter who saw that would've drooled heavily and probably gone insane at the idea. :) If I played mine more that would've been my round 1 bid.

Beef up the patrols just a tad (the caster idea presented earlier seems like a good way to do that) and, of course, fix Tiamat to be much more difficult than she was. The 5 dragon fight was soooo much more difficult (and, if I might say, perfectly balanced for that point in the Tiamat zone--kudos!) than Tiamat herself. Of course, by that time we were all pretty much wanting to go home LOL.

The amount of items and the variance in their relative worth was fine. (I did note a potential way to determine which items the coders consider to be of higher worth than others). Targsk is right, up Isha's AC. Each class had items available to bid on that absolutely rocked. Balor eyelid (drool but booooo to the -31 charisma!).

Blue dragon consort death was friggin' awesome but it got me expecting much more of a storyline to come throughout the zone. Disappointing that it didn't happen, though the variance throughout was, in general, cool. Maybe switching that to one of the fights near the end would be better or adding in more of a storyline type thing to the other consorts. *shrug*

Great job to everyone who worked on the Tiamat implementation! It's much appreciated!
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Postby Malia » Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:25 am

Before we go complaing about the eq we saw and how over powered the rogue stuff was, lets wait and see some of the other eq that will load, not saying your right or wrong but i want the whole picture before i make judgment. Its been stated that the eq isnt random but we also will make several runs before we see it all, we also missed something according to another post. So all i wanna say is hold judgement on eq untill we have seen the majority of it.

Again that was one of the best zones i have ever been to, it was a total blast and the rewards justified the 14hour run it took =) thanks again for the experience it was worth the wait.
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Postby Lahgen » Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:10 am

My guess is that bards get screwed on the balor eyelid because they have song of revelation and thus don't "need" a perma detect item.
Kesena OOC: 'i wish my daddy bought me power tools'

Dorgh group-says 'damn, even with Cofen helping Mori, they STILL can't kill someone

Hekanut says 'I know level doesn't matter much, but most won't take seriously if a level 2 claims to be the best thing before, during, and after sliced bread.'



Rather than seeing "subpar race/class," see "challenge."
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Postby Gormal » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:44 pm

Sarell wrote:The cleric eyepath of lots of damage. That's funny, it would suit the paladin kaln perfectly. No one else, but he needs one! It's still a great item aside from the damage.



WTB: Tiamat eyepatch.
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Postby Yasden » Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:34 pm

Talk to Jazdak. He has it....provided you can get him to un-afk long enough. :P
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