Digging up old bones.

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Nekelet
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Digging up old bones.

Postby Nekelet » Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:48 am

As much as I enjoyed Tiamat, I must say - I have never before felt quite so useless as I did at times during that run.

Death was unavoidable - physical procs were just too painful. Even the mightiest fell. And so, soul walk was the key to success. What's that quote? "Do you have a plan, or are you going to throw bodies at them until they get bored and give up.." Anyhow, one minor problem - Liches can't be swalked. It became a liability for me to risk death as I was out of action for fx, and couldn't do the buffs and pacts that were useful (I hope) to the group. I suppose an alternative to ressing could be 2 trans folks leave and ferry me, or dedicate 2 non-groupies to do the same. Neither are viable, and the latter might be pushing the rules...?

So - I hated that I couldn't contribute to my full potential without affecting everyone else - people dropped much more rapidly the few times I couldn't get a pact up while in FX, and hitters output reduced. (group walks out while I'm still at 10*'s on the chant :P)

On to the bones... Can we revisit the whole ress vs. lich self-trans back to corpse arguments? If we can't be a lifewalk target, and if we have no spirit to walk, then just how can we be resurrected?

I recall a proposal from the past that had several options - I'd like to present a hybrid here. Names TBD.

"transfer host" requires preserved pcorpse, and bound, ghost capable corpse as components. Normal ress fx and 5% xp loss applies. If hostwalk option below was used, 10% penalty applies, thus providing an incentive to use your feet.

"reanimate." Lich essentially self-resses into latest pcorpse. Normal fx and xp loss applies. Obviously, unusable in agressive solo situations. Could make it ALL solo situations if somehow it is coded that prior aggressive status is restored to the mob that did the killing, upon reanimation.

"hostwalk." Lich self-trans' TO the latest unpreserved pcorpse. An additional 5% xp penalty is applied and the reanimate option is no longer available, unless the lich immediately reanimates - that is, no looting, no embalms.
slight lag (swalk equivalent chant, 60 second lag upon arrival)
Really not abusable, as a naked, petless lich really isn't much of a threat. (note the no looting above - won't be possible to dress, get pets, finish the mob, and then reanimate.)

"reform" Lich self-trans back INTO corpse (as if was resurrected, all eq in inventory.) corpse is lost, XP is unrecoverable. lag equivalent to relocate.


Please consider this - or other options to keep lich a viable class in swalk heavy zones, and for the sake of consistency.

Thanks,
-Nek.
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Postby Thilindel » Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:25 am

Being masters of the undead so to speak, I totally think lich should be able to reanimate itself. Imho, so what if it's a self resurrect. Make it where if the lich chooses this route, the xp loss is 50%. I'd even opt to make it 2x resfx added from the stress of being reanimated :P
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Postby Yasden » Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:45 pm

His point was to get back into action with very little to zero "res effects", Thil, not double it. :P
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Postby Thilindel » Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:23 pm

I know *sniff* I was just trying to be sneaky :P
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Postby Sarell » Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:55 am

Level 10 Spell 're-animate' (Quest Spell)

Upon casting this spell the lich that has been defeated in combat will be able to reanimate into their remains. Liches are only able to reanimate into their remains if their phylactery remains untouched (Body not looted or pressed). After reanimating (VERY long cast time, like triple moonwell) the lich will be slightly disorientated (2 round lag this prevents twinking and very easy solo CRs). The lich will lose a slight amount of their greater lifeforce in using this extremely powerful spell (10% exp hit rather than the normal 5% hit with the same chance of 'failure', animating into a failed corpse would work the same with no exp returned).

I really like this idea, taking from Nekelet's spell ideas of course with my own perspective on gameplay, because it makes me think of defeating a lich in combat and its ashes rising up angrily reforming to come and slay you!
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Postby Thilindel » Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:17 am

Hrm, I think that sounds pretty spiffy Sarell!
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Postby Nekelet » Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:23 pm

That may well be an ideal way to consolidate all of my babble into one spell, while including the extra penalties and still allowing something similar to soul walk speed.
Am I reading your version right in that there is no fx, other than the long chant and 2 round lag? (which after partial deathmem & chants would nicely emulate the waiting for soul walk imo..)

Thanks for the contribution, Sarell.

-Nek
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Postby Ashiwi » Tue Nov 29, 2005 6:58 pm

Personally, I'd rather see some kind of lag time involved as the lich knits his disrupted tissues back together. Maybe come back blind and 0 str for a short duration.
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Postby Lazus » Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:36 pm

As a few people may know, I have a unique take on the Lich's ability to be resurrected and be brought back "to life." My feelings are that the necromancer, when questing for Lichdom has given up many things, his soul being one of them. He still has a soul, but he keeps it hidden in a box on his mantle. As such, resurrection should not be an option for the Lich class/race. The lich would take his 25% exp loss and like it.

Now, if you want some sort of self ress, it is dumb to think you should self ress at your body. The whole idea around a self ressing Lich is that he just restores his soul from his phylactery. Now I ask one question, what lich in their right mind would store their phylactery on their person? I'd think none, if they value their "life." In keeping with the theme of the lich, I would suggest that one of two things happen when a lich dies. Either he automatically comes back to life at his guildmaster, or he is able to store his phylactery at another location. Sort of like a bind point that is commonly used in other MMORPGs, you would spawn there instead of your guildmaster when you died. Obviously the latter of the ideas would have to be fleshed out a little more, but those are my ideas with Liches and their "resurrection" in keeping with the theme of the mud and Forgotten Realms.

That being said, if these limitations on resurrection were implemented, I would have no problem with the liches getting a transportation spell. Liches are traditionally power hungry mages who have delved into the magic of the dead so far, that they themselves have taken on undeath. You can't tell me that they never learned to teleport or relocate during their studies.

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Postby Nekelet » Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:51 am

Good stuff - but we're heading down the 'self rezz/restore' path which was a secondary point of the original post. The whole reason I dug up this topic again was due to the inability to get back in zones without fx. I brought up the reanimate(rezz) stuff because it makes sense, but it really isn't necessary other than from a realism stance.

The quick and dirty fix is self-only soul walk - or shammer spirit walk by another name and without the !tele restriction. Or even remove the limitation from necro's soul walk so that he can trans a lich like he does everyone else.

These options however are ugly IMO. Recently implemented spells (lifewalk, soulwalk) and certain mobprocs make sense that they can't target liches, thus I leaned towards continuing that trend with my suggestion.

Regardless - The ideas coming out are looking good, although I believe these have been touched in old threads - certainly the phylactery flavor has. Keep 'em coming. Maybe we'll find the right balance and catch someones attention upstairs. :)


Maybe it's destiny that the necro is swalkbish, and the lich remains pact/balm/hastebish for high end, !tele content. I'd prefer to think otherwise...
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Postby Sarell » Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:18 am

Lazus wrote:Now, if you want some sort of self ress, it is dumb to think you should self ress at your body. The whole idea around a self ressing Lich is that he just restores his soul from his phylactery.


So maybe the lich does repop at his guildmaster where his guts are stored, oh already does. But for the intent of good gameplay and cool looking things, I still like my idea about rising up from the ashes. I've never met a lich IRL but I think it would be cool if they could do that.
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Postby Thilindel » Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:34 am

I'd be content losing all xp IF we got gate/relocate/clair/locate/reanimate(per Sarell's new idea) - I also think lich should lose vitality being cast upon them..considering you can't vit a lich/necro's pets. Lastly, I'd opt that they finally fix lich being seen in dark by infra. Mobs detect us anyway.

P.S. is the rotting corpse known as a lich even able to sustain the shock of being embodied??
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Postby Ashiwi » Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:09 am

One idea to consider would be giving liches a totem-like phylactery, with a once/game month ability to "hide" the phylactery, perhaps only in rooms with certain flags. The phylactery would disappear on crash or reboot. Once "hidden," the lich could return to the phylactery on death.
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Postby ssar » Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:04 am

Ashiwi wrote:One idea to consider would be giving liches a totem-like phylactery, with a once/game month ability to "hide" the phylactery, perhaps only in rooms with certain flags. The phylactery would disappear on crash or reboot. Once "hidden," the lich could return to the phylactery on death.


Now that's a very interesting idea!
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Postby Snurgt » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:20 pm

Ensis likes to play hide the phylactery.
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Postby Ensis » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:25 pm

Snurgt wrote:Ensis likes to play hide the phylactery.


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Postby Llaaldara » Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:55 pm

Ok I've read what everyone has posted here and watched the back and forth banter. Some ideas I feel are nice and some are 'in theme' but some of these I feel are just going in the wrong direction. I see Nekelet's dilemma. He needs to get back to his corpse without ress F/X (like every other race/class can do with a swalk Necro).

Not being able to be swalked really does take a Lich out of the game in these zones. It blows chunks in the extreme. Makes you a liability instead of a bonus to have a long.

I've always wanted some form of Phylactery aspect to our lichs, but that opens up a whole can of worms with the whole lich death thing. If you want more details about that, just goto http://www.torilmud.org/phpBB2/viewtopi ... king+lichs and read about it.

I'm not sure the whole self-CR thing is such a good idea, despite the brave attempts to make it !twink. I think what we need, and what Nekelet is referring to, is just a way for someone to help Lichs get back faster.

Since Necromancers do this for everyone else, why not give then an additional ability that allows for it to be done to lichs as well - with an alternate use as well.

Heres my suggestion:
A Necromancer/Lich spell that for now we'll call 'Undead Regeneration'. What it does is take any corpreal undead corpse (including mobs) and allow it to be animated into an undead minion (pet raisable corpse). In the case of a player lich's corpse, it allows the lich to be soul walked by a necromancer. The Necro gets the bonus boon, hey it doesn't hurt, while the lich just uses it to animate corpreal undead mobs. I'm not talking about a Necro or Lich re-animating their pets (ghasts/ghouls/wights/zombies/etc). No not at all. Just mob corpses of corpreal undead that have been killed. As any Necro/Lich knows, undead heavy zones suck for us cuz we can't raise anything or control anything and once our pets die.. its suckdom time. This spell would be a way of kinda fixing that issue for us - just slightly (as not all undead are corpreal and a lot aren't, it'd just be a nice help up for them - a way to make it not suck so much).

Should it be a quest spell, a highlevel spell, or both? I certainly don't know at this point, but I do think that a spell that works similar to this IS specifically necessary in the cases that Nekelet is referring too.

Plz remember, lich's already have the longest mem times guys and girls since we can mem more spells then any other caster class. So for us sitting in ress f/x mem'm back stuff, it's a whole nother world of suck.
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Postby Ambar » Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:48 am

I was agreeing until ...

Llaaldara wrote:Plz remember, lich's already have the longest mem times guys and girls since we can mem more spells then any other caster class. So for us sitting in ress f/x mem'm back stuff, it's a whole nother world of suck.


goofy girl! Until you have death *prayed* as an Ogre Shaman, you havent LIVED (or died as the case may be :P) .. And yeah yeah no need for spellbooks as a priest but shoosh about times! :P IIRC, ONE lvl 50 Ogre shaman 10th circle without eq was 15 sec pray....

But yeah all in all something needs to be done! Some of those fights *seemed* crucial without death pact! Perhaps as simple as raising xp loss on ress in exchange for the ability of the lich to be soul walked? Is it realistic? Not really, but seems a simpler *fix* than creating new spells and spellquests.

NEWS (maybe?)
In exchange for the ability to be soulwalked, liches now suffer a 35% exp loss on ress or a 50% exp loss on deaths, so only gain 15% of death xp back on ress? So increase the lich to 10% or higher above *living* pcorpses?
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Postby Nekelet » Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:28 pm

One lvl 50 human lich, 10th circle is 12 to 12.5 naked.
Total memqueue is 582 I believe.

When you start throwing numbers like that (-50, -35 w/ ress), Ambar, think about the deathrate in Tia, or even when soloing. Sheesh, had I been Peb, you'd be talking to the only 41st level lich on toril.

*cringe*
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Postby Ambar » Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:11 pm

you cant have your cake AND eat it too!

what im offering (suggesting) is .. instead of regaining ABOUT 20% xp after a ress you'd get 10 or 15 .. how is that so bad? i see how easy necro is to lvl .. cant imagine how easy it is for a lich :P

lv 50 Ogre Shaman deathmem with no extra slots was 700+

eat that :P


so .. start at 650% xp
die, go to 600%
ress and are at 630 maybe

that isnt that big a penalty in exchange for soul walk ..
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Postby Llaaldara » Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:05 am

(Ok, I'll play a long withya Amby:))

*clears throat and puts on her grumpy girl look* Grrr

I thought this thread had some intelligence until..

Ambar wrote:you cant have your cake AND eat it too!

what im offering (suggesting) is .. instead of regaining ABOUT 20% xp after a ress you'd get 10 or 15 .. how is that so bad? i see how easy necro is to lvl .. cant imagine how easy it is for a lich :P

lv 50 Ogre Shaman deathmem with no extra slots was 700+

eat that :P


so .. start at 650% xp
die, go to 600%
ress and are at 630 maybe

that isnt that big a penalty in exchange for soul walk ..


Nah! :P Nah! :P

What cake exactly are you referring too? Could you explain what about the lich class singled them out as to be justified to never be soul walked in the first place from a game mechanics point of view? What single ability was so exceptionally great that they needed to be single-handedly eliminated from a necessary CR spell that all other classes have access to? If there is no reason this was done other then RP related (which isn't game mechanics or balance issue), then sit down.

Was the 700+ pray time naked or with equipment? That is the issue here. This is the point. The lich is most likely mem'n back ALL their spells naked while waiting for a transit back, while the ogre shaman is most likely ALREADY at her corpse wearing her full eq from before, while the lich is not. When that Ogress is back in her spiffy duds, her pray time can be changed significantly. Am I wrong? Or does +max wis gear not make a significant difference for your pray times? The point here is, compare your ogre pray times for a full death pray while wearing your eq, and compare it to a lich's full death pray while they are naked. Think the numbers might be a smidge closer? Or am I completely wrong?

650% exp buffer? My lich currently has a 173% buffer. My other long time played 50th character, Sesexe, has a 38% exp buffer. Are you seriously suggesting that we need to spend all our time exp'n constantly as lich's (and being a lone even more no less, cuz that’s what exp’n as a lich IS) in order to so called warrant being included in something everyone else is privileged to? I'm aware that I haven't been playing regularly in about 10 months, but I've ATLEAST kept a monochrome of contact with what's been going on here, and from what I've been reading and heard, people want to spend LESS time in exp zones, not more.

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Postby Ambar » Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:32 pm

without eq, goofy .. why would any sensible Ogre pray without eq if she didnt HAVE to .. sheesh :P at lvl 1, ONE first circle spell was 47 sec to pray .. rofl god i almost gave up THEN, so glad i didnt :) with eq it as like 500+ iirc ..

you havent played in HOW long? thats why your buffer is so low:P dont bitch about a low buffer if 1) you dont play .. 2) you dont play :) when WE did Tia we had no ress issues cause of god transport .. THIS time they didnt have that .. and ran into Neke's situation.. Did you READ the thread or see me post and decide to respond to me?

I used 650% cause it was a general easy to use number, nothing specific :P like some people use 100% to explain percentages

*shrug* it was a suggestion based on others suggestions to get the lich back into gameplay faster .. hell i dont even HAVE a lich and my necro is only lvl 33 or so :) sue me for having an idea :P
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:51 pm

Llaaldara wrote:What cake exactly are you referring too? Could you explain what about the lich class singled them out as to be justified to never be soul walked in the first place from a game mechanics point of view? What single ability was so exceptionally great that they needed to be single-handedly eliminated from a necessary CR spell that all other classes have access to? If there is no reason this was done other then RP related (which isn't game mechanics or balance issue), then sit down.



My issue with your take is you refer to soul/life walk(whichever it is, I don't remember) as it's a nessecity spell when it's not. There's other ways around it. We did those zones before that spell was in and we could do it again, that spell made it easier that's all.

I'm particlally basied in this whole situation. I've had a lich for what, 2-3 years now? He has a rocking 23% exp buffer. While my ranger who actually went to tia had a bit over 600%. I'd do tia as a lich, but i'd be content being delegated to doing haste/globe/embalm/pact duty and staying out of fights because dying as a lich is a whip in tia. But so freaking what.

With all the MR in that zone one or two rots/ice tombs aren't going to make or brake those fights. That's why we had the amount of melee we had in the zone, and zero invokers. Nek was the closest thing to one we really had.

Now, to get the read back on point -

Self ress/soulwalk. I've always been of the mindset that, if I can lich, then I can learn some other spells such as relo/gate etc. But I can also see that as truly over powering the class. If we get anything something's going to have to be given up it's the way it works, balances. I'd like to have something like that but I just don't know if it's feasable. This is really a rare situation we're looking at as well.

Otherzones, people die you get welled, gated, or just ressed back and it's not an issue. This is really a one or two ocassion thing. So I just don't know if I think it's nessicary.

Feel free to disagree, this is just my opinion on the matter anyway.
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Postby Lahgen » Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:59 pm

While I agree that perhaps Lichs could be thrown a bone in regards to travel (in fact, I don't think they're powerful enough in general), "I'm useless in Tia" isn't really rhe right reason. I mean, invokers are almost useless in Tia too.
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Postby Vigis » Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:08 pm

Lahgen wrote:While I agree that perhaps Lichs could be thrown a bone in regards to travel (in fact, I don't think they're powerful enough in general), "I'm useless in Tia" isn't really rhe right reason. I mean, invokers are almost useless in Tia too.


To be honest, nobody really knows that invokers are useless in Tia, they suspect it.
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Postby Sarell » Sun Dec 04, 2005 11:53 am

Invokers would be the best damage in tia. I still like my lich idea. :)
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Postby Lilira » Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:47 pm

Can someone tell me why Revive has the same effects as ress?

Can it be used on a lich?

Maybe instead of creating a new spell for liches just code revive to work on liches and remove attrib penalties? They still have to remem so that takes away the twinkability? Also it requires a cleric to cast it, so it will happen in zones, which I think is the point to half of this conversation. So basically if they die on their own, they still have to walk to CR themselves.
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Postby Ambar » Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:44 am

Revive time is by FAR lower than ress .. we used to us eit on baby snake way back to get them to DK faster.
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Postby Dalar » Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:50 pm

MR is done by percentages. If Tiamat's MR is 50%, then force missiles do around as much as melee does in one round. Anything higher than 50% results in invokers being worthless.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Llaaldara » Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:29 pm

Ambar wrote:without eq, goofy .. why would any sensible Ogre pray without eq if she didnt HAVE to .. sheesh :P at lvl 1, ONE first circle spell was 47 sec to pray .. rofl god i almost gave up THEN, so glad i didnt :) with eq it as like 500+ iirc ..


You're right. Why would any sensible Ogre pray without EQ if she didn't have to? Furthermore, why would you mention your pray time as an EQ-less Ogre when we are comparing the pray/mem times of an UN-EQ'd lich (human no less b/c this is Nekelet's plight, not mine) Vs. the mem/pray times of eq'd characters in death mem?

Ambar, that's the point Nekelet has made from the begining! That's the point he's making. His only way back with relative quickness is to be ressed. He can't be soulwalked. Because he can't be soul walked, he'll be in ress/fx. Because YOU can be soul walked, you WILL BE wearing YOUR equipment and not under ress f/x. If Nekelet WAITS to be ressed UNTIL he's mem'd up, how is he doing it? Well, since he's NOT AT HIS CORPSE, so he's doing so naked with backup books (or at the least minimal backup eq) in a guildhall. And if he's in his guildhall, where is he NOT? WITH THE GROUP ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE AND CAST SPELLS SUCH AS DEATHPACT, that's where. If you're not with the rest of the group, what good are your group based spell-up spells?

The comprison is you wearing your full eq without F/X to him, Nekelet, either:
A) Sitting in guildhall naked with backup books doing full death mem, or
B) Sitting in zone doing full death mem under ress f/x, where even cast times of such spells as Death Pact are so long that the group leaves before it lands (as reported by Nekelet himself. So even if he mem'd it quick first, and then ressed, it is equally useless).

Ambar wrote:you havent played in HOW long? thats why your buffer is so low:P dont bitch about a low buffer if 1) you dont play .. 2) you dont play :) when WE did Tia we had no ress issues cause of god transport .. THIS time they didnt have that .. and ran into Neke's situation.. Did you READ the thread or see me post and decide to respond to me?


Yes, I haven't played in 10 months. I SAID THAT! Did you miss that part? Maybe If I hadn't mentioned it, or if in 9 of those 10 months more then minor tweaks had been implemented, your comment might actually have some validity. Yet, I STILL understand the situation that is transpiring. And guess what? I'm not worried about this for myself, I read and understood Nekelet's point of view. I understood his dilemma, because I READ WHAT HE SAID and I UNDERSTOOD IT.

I got it so well, that when I did respond here initially, Nekelet thanked me ON THE MUD directly for actually understanding what he said. And to paraphrase what he said to me "Until you posted, I felt like I was speaking another language to everyone."

Ambar wrote:I used 650% cause it was a general easy to use number, nothing specific :P like some people use 100% to explain percentages


Ok thats fair. I just wanted to point out that not everyone has one so high, so your numbers are a tad absurd for those people. They would need to be lowered most likely.

Ambar wrote:*shrug* it was a suggestion based on others suggestions to get the lich back into gameplay faster .. hell i dont even HAVE a lich and my necro is only lvl 33 or so :) sue me for having an idea :P


This quote contains the point of the entire thread, a way to get lich's back into gameplay faster, because they are far behind compared to all other classes when doing !tel zones. I'm sincerely glad you understand that, and I'm glad you want to help out, but just remember, not everyone (even when they did play all the time) liked spending so much time exp'n. Please just keep that in mind is all I ask.


Ps> One of the ways necromancers/lichs were able to speed up their usefulnesses after being ressed, was to first animate undead to cast spells for them. Unfortunately, not all mobs can be turned into casting pets, and unless the corpses have been soul binded ahead of time, none of them can. And the big spell lich's are brought for, Death Pact, cannot be cast by undead pets, making this trick useless in that endeavor. I can only hope that perhaps a dragon themed zone such as Tiamat, has sufficient raisable pets in the harder encounter areas.
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Postby Ambar » Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:38 pm

anyway ... anyone else have any ideas on how to help the situation? i'm quite sure noone wants to read me and llaaldara argue pointlessly about ...... nothing ....
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Postby Lazus » Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:49 pm

I can't believe nobody has mentioned this yet, so here goes:

Llaaldara wrote:Plz remember, lich's already have the longest mem times guys and girls since we can mem more spells then any other caster class.


Why are we whining about our single best benefit of becoming a lich? I'm sure the gods can take it away if that's what you'd like. Please don't whine about your benefits.

Llaaldara wrote:So for us sitting in ress f/x mem'm back stuff, it's a whole nother world of suck.


That's why, after you die, you walk to the inn, get your spare books out of your storage cache. Begin your mem then. Start with your highest circle spells as they take longest to mem while in effects. As for dropping your books on ground when you're ressed, most clerics have a tell built into their resurrect alias that tells you when they're ressing you. If they don't they probably should. That gives you plenty of time to cache your books.
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Postby Nekelet » Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:20 am

<drawn out nitpick & Cp'n Obvious comments deleted..>

2nd Ambar's suggestion :)

(And Lazus, I think we understand the mechanics of storage caches and deathmems...)
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Postby Thilindel » Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:02 am

lazus, that is pointless. The point of the thread is lich is outta fight while others can be squirted right back in there soul-style, ya disclaiming undead hater! :P

Also, while they may have more spells, death pact is usually one, and banshee wail another. Nobody I know will claim 4 rots outdoes 4 infernos/clouds/swarms. Lich doesn't really get any other decent spells. Apples and oranges. More doesn't really mean better.
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Postby Sarell » Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:32 am

Sarell wrote:Level 10 Spell 're-animate' (Quest Spell)

Upon casting this spell the lich that has been defeated in combat will be able to reanimate into their remains. Liches are only able to reanimate into their remains if their phylactery remains untouched (Body not looted or pressed). After reanimating (VERY long cast time, like triple moonwell) the lich will be slightly disorientated (2 round lag this prevents twinking and very easy solo CRs). The lich will lose a slight amount of their greater lifeforce in using this extremely powerful spell (10% exp hit rather than the normal 5% hit with the same chance of 'failure', animating into a failed corpse would work the same with no exp returned).

I really like this idea, taking from Nekelet's spell ideas of course with my own perspective on gameplay, because it makes me think of defeating a lich in combat and its ashes rising up angrily reforming to come and slay you!


So does anyone think liches shouldn't get this spell? I still think it's a rockin' good idea with no problems! :)
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Postby Nekelet » Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:20 am

Whatever the flavor, Sarells, mine, sexy's, phylactery.. Cheese isn't an option - the lich would just (un?)die if he attempted to use in solo/aggro situations. I'm kinda leaning towards Sarells personally, but it seems perhaps too easy - need a quick walk plus lagged reform IMO. Single step reanimate should lag/fx, if you ask me.

Is there a reason a lich shouldn't get back to combat quickly, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE CAN?
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Postby Ambar » Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:47 pm

Nekelet wrote:Whatever the flavor, Sarells, mine, sexy's, phylactery.. Cheese isn't an option - the lich would just (un?)die if he attempted to use in solo/aggro situations. I'm kinda leaning towards Sarells personally, but it seems perhaps too easy - need a quick walk plus lagged reform IMO. Single step reanimate should lag/fx, if you ask me.

Is there a reason a lich shouldn't get back to combat quickly, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE CAN?


that whole soul thing seems to be the stumbling block tho Neke :P

I'm sure something is being thought of, right now Melee is in the forefront .. be patient :) Melee types have been waiting forever for their changes ..
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