Illusionist vs. enchanter with haste

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Thilindel
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Illusionist vs. enchanter with haste

Postby Thilindel » Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:31 am

Was just watching some zone logs and thinking since illusionist only really has displace patrol, why not add haste to them so they can help ease a chanter's troubles?
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Postby Corth » Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:46 am

Heh..

I think one of the things I liked about illusionists is that we weren't overburdened with spellup duty like enchanters. Rather, our spells were more useful during fights and doing sneaky things. If anything, I'd rather see some of the burden taken away altogether rather than spread around.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

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Postby Lathander » Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:39 am

Because Haste is an alteration school which matches up with enchanter but not with illusionist?

lath
Thilindel
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Postby Thilindel » Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:59 am

yeah, I only see it as chanters are so overworked.. Now that I have one, I absolutely hate it. Even the fool clerics who want haste.
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Postby Nekelet » Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:01 am

Bring a good lich. Some will even cast themselves you know. :)
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Postby selerial » Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:07 am

Or a good ellie... oh wait, ellies don't have haste *cough* *whistle*
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Postby daggaz » Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:01 pm

I love my enchanter =)
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Postby Lilira » Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:11 pm

I love my enchanter.. not so great at zoning with her, but everyone assures me I'll get better with practice. *duck*
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Postby Ragorn » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:03 am

It's kind of interesting to see that several other classes have expressed disinterest in receiving new spells, because it means they'll be shackled with performing spellups. Seems like an aspect of the game that could, and should, be given some attention.
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Postby loshaenar » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:13 am

Actually,

now that we have perm haste items in the game (again), and i'm sure certain armors, daggers etc will be commonplace in a month or so.. i see this as meaning that no one will ever need to haste group members ever again? who knows, if we see the same level of ingenuity and new life put into areas other than rogue toys, we could even see a SURPLUS of people playing utility caster classes. That'd rock.

end of flame.

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Postby Thilindel » Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:51 am

The 'problem' with the haste eq is it ignores clerics/mages. P&P players have probably all seen clerics or mages who like being able to hit. I could see a similar type of spell that gives haste but doesn't have to be called haste. Basically since it's an illusionist class, the mob would be 'psyched out' by images the he need block, so some rounds, much like bard haste song at low levels, the target of this spell could take advantage of the shoddy blocking and attack a different part of the body.

As far as the spellup form of haste, all illusionists do is displace for a buffer. As my chanter, I try like hell to not play as him as it is. Globe/scale/haste/blur...over and over. Far and wide the most casting class as it is. Big fights suck ass too. While the group is in there kicking ass, taking names, and gaining xp, chanters are sitting out memming, trying to keep ppl spelled up. Personally, I think haste and other lesser spellup spells should be spread out to lessen chanter's troubles. Leave Blur and Scales alone to give a 'defining' ability to chanters but globing/hasting is rather tedious. There aren't always necro/lich out there who can help globe, despite the fact that nec/lich globes don't get specialize enchantment, thus very short...
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Postby Ragorn » Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:00 pm

Thilindel wrote:Personally, I think haste and other lesser spellup spells should be spread out to lessen chanter's troubles. Leave Blur and Scales alone to give a 'defining' ability to chanters but globing/hasting is rather tedious. There aren't always necro/lich out there who can help globe, despite the fact that nec/lich globes don't get specialize enchantment, thus very short...


No, the answer is to fix the game so the tank doesn't need seven different spells just to survive combat. There was a time on Toril when Warriors made do with just Stoneskin and Globe, we didn't have blur, dragonscales, or displacement, and hitters were expected to carry their own haste. We've gone from that to a game where 70% of combat is maintaining short-timer, non-refreshable buffing spells.

I've always kind of wanted to play an Enchanter, but fuck if I want to give myself carpal tunnel trying to maintain spells on 7 different group members.
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Postby Lathander » Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:56 pm

It is a zero sum game. If you improve tanking ability so they don't need dragonscales/blur/displace/et al, then if they have those spells, they would be even tougher. Therefore, if you improve tanking ability without spells, then you have to downgrade or eliminate spells that improve tanking. Enchanter's role is the enchantment and alteration spells which improve tanking ability. That's what they are. Take away the enchantment spells they cast, and there is no longer a reason for enchanter.

Old Sorc did basically the same thing if you remember. I remember getting on sorc because they were casting too much offense and taking too long to mem after fights. The best old sorc never really casted much offense, which was why most were spec enchantment.

Contrary to some opinions, mages have always done this. The only real change has been with conjurers who used to be a pet based class similar to necros turning into a hybrid tank improvement/offensive class. Illusionists are even more of a hybrid with tank improvement, offense, and the added sneaking stuff.
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Postby Dalar » Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:44 pm

How about getting rid of blur and make it so tanks can tank up more mobs at the same time.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Thilindel » Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:13 pm

Just skimming thru spells, I remembered Invokers get major paralysis. MP is listed under enchantment. Nobody complains about it. Wrong school, wrong class I guess. Figured I'd throw in the last tidbit because haste is not a spell that will make illusionist 'that much tougher.' Having blur or something definitely would and I don't at all think any defensive helpful spells should be added to illusionist, cuz they can be quite twinky at times :P But haste.. pls! Just imagine that's 20+ seconds less per mem for a big group.

But hey, I just had an idea for a defensive spell for illusionist!

FASHION INFRACTION:
Spell.

Area of effect: Touch
Aggressive: No
Cumulative: No
Duration: Dependant on the proficiency of the caster
Class/Circle: Illusionist 6th
Type of spell: Illusion

This spell causes the warrior's clothing to appear so hideous and unmatched that the victim will find themself the envy of all local hostile's..the hostile's blade that is! All enemies will concentrate on focus their distain at the target, meanwhile greatly reducing the chance of switching to another in the party!

hehe a joke, but couldn't resist - just saw the ugliest outfit on tv.
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Postby Teshidee » Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:49 pm

the solution to your problems is: when overworked, do not haste. bottom priority, tell rogues to say accellerate or some such :p it's not that enchies are overworked. it's that the other spellcast classes don't have enough to do. yawn invokers!
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Postby Thilindel » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:15 pm

Hey! invokers get the mighty DI request during zones :P
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Postby Vaprak » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:16 pm

They key to playing any class with the haste spell is to not have it scribed in your book.
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Postby Alilsil » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:16 am

Vokers unload all spells in fight not before.. voker cast much too... illus getting haste, i must say might improve them in exp groups too. not many illus getting grouped or maybe that was just me when i was smaller
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Postby Thilindel » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:33 am

That's exactly what I'm hoping :) But yah, my voker that I also don't like playing, is one of the last standing.
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Postby Mirlantharn » Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:17 am

I do recall the old sorc class, and here's my take on the situation.

Giving it to another class just to make group spellup faster doesn't help. IMHO, hasting the group just is another spellup that is an enchanter's duty. DEAL WITH IT. Enchanters have it rough, but that's also the class. I chose enchanter for that particular reason, as it's a _challenge_ most of the time. Occassionally I do like a small change, a little more laid back, and that's when I do my exp'ing usually.

Nekelet is correct, that a necro along with the group can help haste also, and yes it does help when I zone with him. It takes a little pressure off of me. Thanks Nekelet. :) However, giving it more and more classes (even if it's just one class now, but a gradual "Oh my goodness, everyone now has a spell/item for blinding!" effect. Used to be only two classes had the ability to blind: sorc and cleric. Now I end up competing with about half a dozen classes for getting my blinding exp in a group. The same goes for silencing. Btw, constriction works nicely _the way it is_. Please, don't ask for it to be changed, it is _not_ overpowered nor underpowered. There is a (fair amount, but definitely beneath 40% average) chance of constriction disrupting the spellcaster, for that single moment when cast. It's different enough from any other silencing spell so as to be actually enjoyable as a spell to cast. I use it purposely as such, on occassion but not every time.

I also disagree on the situation of having all the hitter items having haste upon them, in most implementations. Why? Cause _every_ hitter gets them, and my chance of casting that spell because nonexistant. A very good similarity was the RPQ event back in Febraury and again in August (I didn't attend the second), when the dragon I was riding which was made _especially_ for the the enchanter class (each dragon was made for the particular rider's class) casted automatically _every_ major spell I used while zoning. There wasn't much tactics in that situation, I just had to sit back and die whenever the spells _I_ wanted to cast couldn't be casted cause the dragon had done it at the wrong time. The _only_ frustrating part of the entire RPQ event.
I would consider something of a "1 per day" or "3/day" haste item would be more to my liking, rather than a "constantly" hasted item.

For the long spellups, since group fly (aka Aura of the Griffon) was implemented... How about a group blur/haste? Require it to be a lengthy and difficult quest, for such as good spell. 10th circle would be fine: it'll conflict enough with dragonscales to be a bother, and time stop would help somewhat but the meming is still a killer for the enchanter.
(Remember, Time Stop does _NOT_ shorten the memorization time, just the casting time. So a very short spellup ends with a LONGER memorization cause you have to get back that 10th circle time stop spell...And that I get gripes about in a group, from people trying to charge into combat: "what you mean you have to mem now??? We're spelled!!"

Always looking for _reasonable_ and _sensible_ solutions to the game's and player's problems,
Mirlantharn

PS, for the clerics, since the blinding situation is so avidly abundant in other classes, why not restore the old cleric's "room blind", AND allow them still the targeted blind? The variance would make clerics feel a little better about things, I think.
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Postby Teshidee » Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:24 pm

ok, i wasn't clear enough. i love the work, enchanter's the way to play this game, really. everything else is just a break for when you want to be lazy. however, it's good to have your priorities straight. have you ever hasted a rogue who's yelled for it while you saw them burn? *halo*
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Postby Marrus » Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:22 am

Illusionists are one of the last classes that need anything spell-wise in game balance terms. Actually, I think they have one of the best balanced and funnest spell lists in the game...which is probably why I play them so much. Long story short, don't fiddle with their spell list. Other classes are truly in need of help, illusionists aren't one of them.
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Postby Diel » Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:52 pm

nerf rangers.
Hoppel ASSOC:: 'ROFL ON THE BEST FLOOR EVAR!!!1!1!oneone'

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Hibbidy tells you 'kill giant'

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Postby Thilindel » Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:12 pm

haste doesn't HELP enchanter. Dscales etc. does. They can use the spell to solo stuff or get wherever they need to go. Haste isn't going to HELP illusionists do anything either. What it would help is ease overworked chanters. I have a lot of time getting my chanter zonable. I most certainly don't enjoy being the absolute only class that cannot afk if something happens with my son, etc. A cleric possibly can afk if enough groupheals or whatever are tossed out. Doing giants or something is crazy w/o a scaler. My entire point is illusionist is a fairly lax class in its spellups. Displace.

Sarell wrote:Illusionists only have one buff and it lasts longer than any other tho. Don't make illusionists any more afk than they already are plz!


Corth wrote:Agree Sarell.


It's not too much to ask an illusionist to haste a couple people. Chanter, ungodly overworked prior to a fight and must cast during as well. Invoker, unloads all possible during a fight. Elementalist, no real offense..secondary buff spells and some debuff - not a pivotal necessity. Illusionist - displace, can stun damned well, etc.

Either way, my invoker is one of last standing despite being an elf. You nonstop cast as invoker. Chanter forces you to lose xp from mem'g out. Haste for illusionist is to help chanters mainly, not to make illusionist stronger.
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Postby Teshidee » Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:07 pm

erf. enchanters don't need help. if they did, leaders would take more than one per group :p

leave haste with the enchies, ask more people to roll necro/liches (and leaders to take them along!), assign your haste duties to the mentalist, etc. oh, and don't tinker with illus cept if you'd bring tranquility back to work! and camo... yay!
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Postby Ambar » Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:45 pm

If you don't like spellups dont play an enchanter

period
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Postby Thilindel » Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:43 pm

tedishee I'm not asking for chanters to lose haste if that's how it seems, just for illusionists to gain it. Sarell said it best. Illusionists are afk as even 2 leaders just quoted. It makes balance sense to distribute workloads. I think both chanter/illusionist should have in other words.
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Postby Lathander » Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:52 pm

I'm confused.

Three messages up, you basically said you wanted others to have haste so that as an enchanter, you could afk more? Some classes demand more hands on attention than others. Enchanters are one of those along with clerics and a few others which are tough to do with scripts. If your playing style is heading more toward an interest in being able to afk more frequently look at playing a bard or a pure hitter.

I'm just wondering if this is more about adding haste to other classes' spell lists or about making enchanters more afk'able?

Lath
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Postby Thilindel » Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:17 pm

No I don't recall even remotely implying I wish to afk. I said enchanter finds himself at the end of a whip during zones, and as the quoted and renowned leaders said, illusionists can idle by in zones. Why would a class by design force you to mem out and lose xp? Whether hasting or not, chanters can't go afk. Group splat will soon follow if so.

The reference to overworked chanter is to show that they are fully dumping their spells, then memming while others are gaining xp as said chanter's sitting on his/her butt regaining scales.

I honestly don't see why a class is known to be able to idle, that being illusionist, while another class is so overworked. I pointed out before, invokers have had major paralysis for years, who knows why. Illusionist could use a bigger hand in the spellup game. Vokers dump spells during fights so there's no reason to add to them. Necro/elementalist both have haste but they aren't typically desired except in the mega zones.
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Postby Lathander » Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:46 am

Interesting, you know, I decided to look into paralysis in the books. The interesting part is that there are three different versions of this spell. The three versions are Illusion, Alteration and Necromancy (Paralyzation, Paralyzing Field and Paralyzing Touch respectively).

Basically, the alteration version channels energy to create the paralyzation effect. Alteration really is not specifically an “enchantment”, but since no “Alteration” type of spell exists, it becomes shoehorned into the Enchantment type. Since it is not completely the providence of the Enchantment school, it does make fine sense that it is shared by invokers and by enchanters.
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Postby Lahgen » Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:59 am

"I want a little slack in zones" is not the same thing as "I want to AFK."

However, it does seem to me that it's not unfair for one class to have to do more exertion than another.
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Rather than seeing "subpar race/class," see "challenge."
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Postby Thilindel » Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:17 am

Well, the game is 'loose' version of D&D. Since so many different factors are in a real time vs. p&p..it's hard to be literal with rules. Here's a great example, Lath:

"PRISMATIC SPRAY"
Spell.

Area of effect: Room
Aggressive: Yes
Cumulative: Yes
Duration: Dependent on color of beam.
Class/Circle: Enchanter 7th
Type of spell: Invocation

"Prismatic spray" is an extremely powerful area-effect spell that
fires multiple beams of color, striking multiple targets in the room.
Each color of beam stands for a different effect:

red most damage
orange medium damage
yellow least damage, though still sizable
blue "major paralysis"
indigo "feeblemind"
green "poison"
violet "dispel magic"
azure "blindness"

If there is no color effect, then the beam misses.

See also: "MAJOR PARALYSIS," FEEBLEMIND, POISON, "DISPEL MAGIC,"

Ok, now why would enchanter get an invocation school spell that even the invoker doesn't get? :P

Another one that Necromancers get..
"SNAPPING TEETH"
Spell.

Area of effect: <victim>
Aggressive: Yes
Cumulative: No
Duration: Instantaneous
Class/Circle: Necromancer/Lich 5th
Type of spell: Invocation

The caster causes a pair of large teeth to materialize, snapping
shut around the victim causing damage.

-Yet another of school of invocation, yet isn't in Invoker's spellbook

The game is full of sillies like that, but it's still fun. I'm not trying to nitpick but in a way, a class like enchanter really needs reconsideration. The whole idea that you have so many spells to cast, you have so much mem'g to do, and you miss so much xp cuz you're memming out seemingly demands attention. You only seem to gain xp from stone/scales when you're in the room of the target.

Here's a great example where a large % of any enchanter's xp has been wasted.

"Your skin crawls as you hear a death cry nearby!" - Doh! There goes yet more xp you lost out on...
You have finished memorizing dragonscales/haste/blur/globe
Your studies are complete.
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Postby Lathander » Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:38 am

Let's take the second spell first.

That necro spell is a specialized spell. Sure, it may be within the Invocation sphere, but it most likely in a perfect world would be a combo of Necromancy and Invocation. Necromancy since it deals with bones and death and Invocation since it creates things although one could argue it belongs in Conjuration. This is probably a case of a spell with more than one sphere that got shoehorned into invocation although, it is clearly meant for necro's/liches. After looking this spell up, it is indeed a joint spell although it is listed as Alteration and Conjuration.

Prismatic spray is an interesting spell. It creates the colors of the effect. By creating something, it falls into the Conjuration sphere. Frankly, I simply don't have an explanation on this one. :)

Probably Invocation has a slightly different interpretation on the mud given that this is a case of two spells which verge on Conjuration getting the Invocation sphere. The line dividing those two is pretty blurry at times.
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Postby Mirlantharn » Sat Dec 17, 2005 9:14 am

I've an _EASY_ solution for why the enchanters have prismatic spray and illusionist/invokers don't have it. At the time it _was_ removed from enchanters spelllist and given to invokers, the invokers _never used it_. Not even once. And since enchanters were needing some remotely offensive spell in that circle (It's _STILL_ kinda bare in that respect even with prismatic spray there), it was returned to the enchanters. Whom _DO_ use it, and frequently in some situations.
So, in the interests of that spell circle for enchanters and the lack of invokers ever using it, _PLEASE_ don't change prismatic spray for enchanters.
Thank you very much.
Mirlantharn
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Postby Teshidee » Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:37 pm

i don't see where leaders said illus are often afk during zones. but i only re-skimmed the thread, feel free to quote for me as i am lazy here. anyways. i love marrus! he manages to not be afk surprising-amazingly, too. *boggle*

ambar got it quite right, don't play enchie then.
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Postby daggaz » Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:01 pm

Prismatic Spray might say invocation, but dont forget it does more than just damage. Got feeblemind, blind, major para (enchantments) and dispel magic and poison...

Im all for illusionists getting haste, but frankly, its not like I waste much time casting it anyhow... THe rogues sure if I got time/if the fight requires it... but melee is pretty much a waste of time anyhow compared to vokers, and we all know that.

As for missing out on xp... heh, I do just fine, plenty of zones you can be memming out, hear the cond call, and hop in real quick for a peak at tanks while snagging a half a notch... no biggy. Some of the more serious zones tho, screw it, you aren't there for xp anyhow, and you had better realize that.... half the time there are clerics, vokers, etc... sitting out and memming as well. They all got a job to do, too.
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Postby Thilindel » Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:27 pm

Teshidee wrote:ambar got it quite right, don't play enchie then.


I hate paraphrasing, but the way I see it is this: Why avoid a problem (way too much workload and memout just to catch up) rather than FIX the problem?

But for fun, I found this from Ambar in another thread specifically on enchanter :)

Ambar wrote:ack! even more spells to add to spellup??

with all the eq available for those stats i'd heartily disagree.


Clearly there's a workload issue. _Sharing_, not taking it from enchanter, seems a very simple fix.
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Postby Lahgen » Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:53 pm

Perhaps they think it's not a problem.

After all, is it unfair to the person who has to lift heavy boxes at the store that the person who mops the floor has less physical exertion involved in his job?
Kesena OOC: 'i wish my daddy bought me power tools'

Dorgh group-says 'damn, even with Cofen helping Mori, they STILL can't kill someone

Hekanut says 'I know level doesn't matter much, but most won't take seriously if a level 2 claims to be the best thing before, during, and after sliced bread.'



Rather than seeing "subpar race/class," see "challenge."
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upgraded doppleganger in 10th circle

Postby Abbayarra » Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:10 pm

I'm all for a new 10th circle spell that is an upgrade of doppleganger.
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Postby Thilindel » Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:10 pm

I agree with you Lahgen. I also see and know quite a few people who have an enchanter that are amazing players but hate playing enchanter. What needs to be fixed is losing xp while others are whippin ass and taking names. The workload needs to be examined and distributed better too.

But yeah, when I play invoker, I hardly get a DI request. Job is straightforward and takes no talent other than not feedbacking. Chanter takes a lot of talent or damned good triggers. I don't enjoy failing res. I don't enjoy how amazingly hard the class is to xp. I don't enjoy that it takes forever to catch up to where you were from failing a damned res. Mirlantharn is back to lvl 49. I mean he's a career chanter. Failing res or not, my invoker failed over 300% worth and he's still 300%+ That's the damage xp and not having to mem out (due to my style of staggering spells).

If _everybody_ is gonna defend a broken class' ability to xp equally and be so difficult and nobody's willing to distribute the workload, maybe it should have an '*' when you are creating your character.

* Please note: By game mechanics, this character is prone to losing xp while trying to keep up with group that was just spelled up.
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Postby Lahgen » Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:16 pm

I was level 37 or 38 with my human enchanter and never had any real problem keeping up. You just have to mem only what you absolutely need. Now, it might be a problem if they expect you to nuke and pwb regularly too, but otherwise it shouldn't be too hard to keep up with stone/blur/haste, as long as you don't try to mem back your entire spell complement during memout.
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Postby Lathander » Sat Dec 17, 2005 9:45 pm

I really don't see much difference between clerics and enchanters in terms of playing style. Most good clerics never or rarely cast offense unless they are just trying to have some fun. How many high lvl clerics regulary cast blind in real zones? There are other classes much better than clerics at this. Same thing for enchanters, their job is to keep the dragonscales, blur, stone, and hastes up. It might be arguable that enchanters are now a tiny bit tougher than clerics since the new appearance of the "group" command has really lowered the need for clerics to glance as much, although I still think they need to.

Enchanter is not a broken class, it is just a harder style. When I play my enchanter doing xp, I make sure folks have some condition triggers and they have them set to nasty wounds rarely than pretty hurt. Enchanters and clerics are what they are, low individual power classes that have a big contribution to groups and really are absolutely necessary. Every zone group doesn't HAVE to have an illusionist, elementist, invoker, etc, but I'd argue that any serious groups must have an enchanter for the unique tank improvement spells they have.
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Postby Ifin » Sun Dec 18, 2005 3:06 am

I'd like to comment that illus are a really balanced class at the moment. I remember what one illus said, that it's easy to play illus, but hard class to master. You *could* AFK as an illus in zone, but if you want to be a good illus (or any class) then there's always something to do.

It's already a great class between the work/pay attention load of an invoker and enchanter.

Actually what I really wanted to comment on is the enchanter xp tables. It's already been discussed zoning enchanters pay the most attention, and yet receive the less xp due to mem-out and no damage xp. Level 50 is also a pretty critical level for an enchanter also (1x 10th makes all the dif). Pure xp also sucks as a chanter also b/c you have to pay attention as well xp'ing more than any other class. Can maybe xp tables for enchanters after say level 50.5 be lessened greatly so we can actually acquire a buffer?

I know of at least one enchanter who retired cuz they lost 50. It seems harsh to work so hard to get 50, then have to do more work-xp to get a buffer, then lose it to deaths in zone, and repeat xp, when a lot of other classes can get some sort of decent buffer while zoning.

And prismatic spray is the best spell an enchanter has. If it ever gets d/g'ed or removed or spam lessened then it'd be no fun at all to play an enchanter.
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Postby Thilindel » Sun Dec 18, 2005 7:59 am

I doubt anything would happen to it. How many times has prism went off and it did nothing? Pretty often :P Nothing is funner as a lich than watching a mob cast prism and here you stand with 5 pets, and NOBODY in the room got hit. :P I only was pointing out there are some spells that some classes can use, but other's can't.

Also, I think even hitting 50 is just silly hard. I xp'd today for hm, 4 hours maybe. Got 23% in a group of 5. But @ lvl 48 that just seems super harsh. The xp aspect of the mud really takes from the fun of zones and the great work writers put into it.

_all_ I'm hoping to do is get haste added to illusionist. It doesn't make them more powerful. Just makes them more useful in spell ups and taking up for an overworked class. Hell, I think ifin has a mage of every type, as do I. I found enchanter tables are really difficult to overcome. And when I failed res at lvl 48 only to return to 47. Then as I just said, took FOUR hours just to get where I was. . . XP period - needs a 2nd look please
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Postby Sarell » Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:30 am

I think I'm being misquoted a tad. I said in a thread that I didn't think illusionists should have group displace as keeping up displaces isn't a very big job already, I see so many SECOND RATE illusionists sit afk and sometimes don't even keep the whole gorup displaced. Watch what illusionists like Corth, Ssissu and Nomosolol do/have done in zones, they are far from underworked.
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Postby Ambar » Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:00 pm

Thilindel wrote:
Teshidee wrote:ambar got it quite right, don't play enchie then.


I hate paraphrasing, but the way I see it is this: Why avoid a problem (way too much workload and memout just to catch up) rather than FIX the problem?

But for fun, I found this from Ambar in another thread specifically on enchanter :)

Ambar wrote:ack! even more spells to add to spellup??

with all the eq available for those stats i'd heartily disagree.


Clearly there's a workload issue. _Sharing_, not taking it from enchanter, seems a very simple fix.


Can we quote my WHOLE response rather than paraphrasing so I dont have to search for it? Thanks :)

I have two enchanters with dscale (a drow and a grey elf).. I see no issue with spellup :) As an evil I solo scaled all the time (and my scalers are ONLY lvl 47)

If you dont like spellup dont play the class.

Enchanter is my very fav class to play BECAUSE of the workload .. A good enchanter can make or break spank with a well timed scale or even stone/blur.

/toot my own horn
I remember early into my goodie days I was a YOUNG elementalist at lvl 32 or so, I out-enchanted the lvl 47+ enchanter .. *shrug* I was evil-taught by the BEST ... I got tells requesting that I roll a goodie enchanter, so I did ..
/end toot
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Postby Thilindel » Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:24 pm

That quote was somewhere when I searched ambar and enchanter I think. Was searching a lot since there are so many chanters who've quit. I'm not getting a full response to whose who've played the class tons. I haven't, so was searching. Oh, but that was your full reply, it wasn't selectively snipped :) Was something to the effect that someone wanted chanters to have agility spell mebee
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Postby Malacar » Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:25 pm

This debate is still going around? Good to hear haste items are back in game. :)

I've got no issues with other classes getting haste (even if it defies theme logic) - less spellups!

The game's about fun, not work. :)

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