Spells and Magic

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Boboloppe
Sojourner
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:09 am

Postby Boboloppe » Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:26 am

ambar I don't see how the game would be better off if it went the way you are saying. We are going to have crappy enchanters until they work at it and get better the only way they will do that is if we take them and let them work on there skills. If they could cast there scales earlier than fading then they can refresh the tank right before meming out then as they get better they will start timing it so they get more and more out of each scale.

this may be off topic a bit but I feel that it is related enough to warrent being mentioned here. People are always saying there aren't enough good enchanters or good clerics or good what ever spell caster. Part of the reason for there not being enough good enchanters now is that the job is hard much harder than most other postitions in a zoneing group. as a cleric you can heal the tank any time he is injured and you normally get full effect from your spells. as any damage dealing class you can never not get your effect as long as you have a target to hurt. as an enchanter you have a very small window to cast your spell on the tank if you cast too soon it does nothing if you wait too long or react to slowly the tank may die. By allowing new enchanters to have that extra margin for error you only help them to improve.

Boboloppe Chairman of the Council for Enchanter development

When we Organize we will be heard Rise up my brothers and throw off the chains of oppression that have been placed apon you.

Carpe Gnomdom

Viva La Revolution.
Ambar
Sojourner
Posts: 2872
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Our House in Va.
Contact:

Postby Ambar » Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:35 am

rofl sorry for the derail (not talking about new guys, talking about the unteachables :P)

um yeah aura on haste please
"When a child is born, so is a grandmother."

-Italian Proverb
Thilindel
Sojourner
Posts: 3173
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:09 pm
Location: Indianapolis

Postby Thilindel » Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:53 am

so and so looks extremely hyper!
Thilindel
Sojourner
Posts: 3173
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:09 pm
Location: Indianapolis

Postby Thilindel » Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:01 am

and _please_ consider Group Protection From Undead =D
Tasan
Sojourner
Posts: 1710
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Fridley, Mn USA
Contact:

Postby Tasan » Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:58 am

Boboloppe wrote:ambar I don't see how the game would be better off if it went the way you are saying. We are going to have crappy enchanters until they work at it and get better the only way they will do that is if we take them and let them work on there skills. If they could cast there scales earlier than fading then they can refresh the tank right before meming out then as they get better they will start timing it so they get more and more out of each scale.


Good chanters have learned when scale is going to fall. If you make scale refreshable, it will NEVER be down, EVER. I can keep 3 tanks scaled all day long if you make it refreshable. VETO. Vit refreshable = Yes. Haste refreshable = Yes. Not scale, not displace, not blur. I do NOT want to have taken 2x as long to level to get a level 50 invoker out of my enchanter.

Boboloppe wrote:this may be off topic a bit but I feel that it is related enough to warrent being mentioned here. People are always saying there aren't enough good enchanters or good clerics or good what ever spell caster. Part of the reason for there not being enough good enchanters now is that the job is hard much harder than most other postitions in a zoneing group. as a cleric you can heal the tank any time he is injured and you normally get full effect from your spells. as any damage dealing class you can never not get your effect as long as you have a target to hurt. as an enchanter you have a very small window to cast your spell on the tank if you cast too soon it does nothing if you wait too long or react to slowly the tank may die. By allowing new enchanters to have that extra margin for error you only help them to improve.


Completely disagree. We used to bring 2 enchanters to nearly every "difficult" zone, because it made things so much smoother. Now a single enchanter is all you ever need for 14 other people. Why? Because the spells in combination will give you time to put the other up when one falls, and the good enchanters know to cycle targets so that spells are falling in a progressive pattern and can be easily refreshed without having to panic and quickly mem back things.

When you say the job is "much harder", what are you referring to? Enchanters cast more spells sure, but in all reality it's not that difficult to type a few letters for an alias or use macros to get spellups done w/ minimal effort. During battle, again they have a small cross-section to really pay attention to, and it's really no different than a cleric.

I can't see a single reason why you should make any class easier to play as far as doing it's job. I don't want to be any more bored than I already am zoning with an enchanter. I have fun when things go wrong and you need to be on your toes. I just don't understand how holding anyone's hand is going to suddenly improve the skill of these players.

The really good enchanters spent a lot of time learning the class and figuring out how things work best. Those people are seen as better players for a reason. If we have cookie cutter classes where you can't tell a skilled player from an unskilled one, people will leave in droves. Those that work the hardest want to see their effort rewarded, and it is when they are chosen over those who haven't spent as much time.

And as a referance, I'm not calling myself a good enchanter.
Danahg tells you 'yeah, luckily i kept most of it in my mouth and nasal membranes, ugh'

Dlur group-says 'I have a dead horse that I'm dragging down the shaft with my 4 corpses. Anyone want to help me beat it?'

Calladuran: There are other games to play if you want to play with yourself.
Glorishan
Sojourner
Posts: 456
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Postby Glorishan » Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:59 pm

Thilindel wrote:As far as magic goes, I'm almost all for getting rid of invokers. Maybe up the other mage classes to catch them. Cloud/swarm/fernballer are the only real ones they cast.


I've fought this fight before. G'luck :P
Touk says 'ac > glorishan > mr > touk > hps'
Siamorphe OOC: 'If AFKing is the devil, then Corth is the Antichrist and Glorishan is the False Prophet who supports him.'
Referring to the guild on 8/28/06: Oghma responds to your petition with 'your leadership team averages 280 days MIA :('
Thilindel
Sojourner
Posts: 3173
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:09 pm
Location: Indianapolis

Postby Thilindel » Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:43 pm

Generically, I'd like to see bards get a real spectrum of low and middle damage spells. Bards seem to be focused on 1h piercing only asside from songs. Two different books I've seen shows bards get up to 6th circle mage spells. (D&D that is)
Gizep
Sojourner
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:34 pm
Location: Menzoberranzan
Contact:

Postby Gizep » Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:43 am

How bout cantrips, lol.
As long as we live in this world we are bound to encounter problems. If, at such times, we lose hope and become discouraged, we diminish our ability to face difficulties. If, on the other hand, we remember that it is not just ourselves but everyone who has to undergo suffering, this more realistic perspective will increase our determination and capacity to overcome troubles.
-- The Dali Lama
selerial
Sojourner
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:42 pm
Location: Allston, MA
Contact:

Postby selerial » Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:20 am

I was thinking in the shower about this subject and it sort of spread out to skills in general...

I agree that if you're an invoker, you probably shouldn't even have "spellcast_healing". However, if technical limitation require the spell to exist for all casters, then I was thinking that the "practice" and "skills" command could mask non-relevant skills based upon class.

Then I was thinking we could use "practice all" to see the full list. But then it struck me that we have "deposit all" these days, and if we used "practice all" in the same way (practice all available skills that can be leveled) that would be pretty useful. Of course, if you don't have the full amount of cash, there are a couple of options. Either we could just have the command fail, or it could run down the skill list and just practice what you had the money for.

That lead me to think that skills like mount and swim probably would need to be made useful if we were going to bother practicing them. For mount, I might suggest making a skilled rider able to use minimal movement points for the mount, and perhaps negate a percentage of the "inclement weather" penalty.

For swimming, I'd like to see a skilled swimmer able to swim in deeper water, possibly removing the need to wait for ferrys. There was a thread about the absurdity of fumbling a sword in to a puddle and losing it as well, and it might be possible to somehow use swimming as an angle to either be able to negate the loss of the weapon, or help in retrieving it. Of course, we'd have to change puddles from pointing to /dev/null to pointing to an actual water room around somewhere.

Back to the concept at hand of the spell system. I'd like to see each class have at least two viable specializations. As it stands, most classes really only specialize in one thing. Perhaps alternate specializations could open different high level spells which each are, in some way, "class defining", meaning that the spec you choose will substantially impact the manner in which you play your class.

I also like the idea of combination spells. Perhaps if blur and haste are landed on someone within a minute window, they combine to give the target extra attacks and/or defensive capacity. To counterbalance the power of the effect, it's length could be very short. Half the length of one of the spells, or some percentage of the combined length, or even just a static length for all combo effects like 30 seconds (or one or two ticks... I'd favor two ticks, because I think earthblood para can be as short as 1 tick and sometimes it doesn't even seem to land if you hit right at the end of a tick).
Maedor
Sojourner
Posts: 390
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2002 6:01 am

Postby Maedor » Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:47 am

Yasden wrote:Make them abort target spells when the target leaves the room.


Do you have any clue how twinky that would be?

It's annoying that mobs work like this, but it has to be this way
Yasden
Sojourner
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Lake Stevens, WA, USA

Postby Yasden » Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:47 pm

How is that any twinkier than waiting 5 seconds? I know you're referring to hit-and-run tactics.

It's stupid to flee out of a fight cause you see an incoming spell, and before you can sit and mem, the leader double flees and drags you right back in to it. However, that's the price you pay with areas. On the other hand, mobs don't cast targets unless they're fighting a single PC. They will even cast areas if you have a *mount* in the room. So I'm ONLY asking for them to abort TARGET spells, not areas.
Support Your Addiction! Vote for TorilMUD Today!

Top Mud Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/cgi-bin/topmuds/rankem.cgi?id=shev

Why Nerox is jealous of me:

Nerox tells you 'man this thing is kicking my ass and i have blisters!'
Nerox tells you 'ok attempting it again put tape on my fingers for easier sliding'

Return to “T2 Gameplay Discussion Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests