Illithids vs dragons

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
muxxissinix
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Illithids vs dragons

Postby muxxissinix » Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:47 pm

Edited.

Enough, I don't want more ppl reading a couple of lines and posting.

Sarell is a nice person and I know is a an awesome leader, and if you think I can't have differences with other person just because you like him. I think maybe you are wrong.

Thanks for fix Illithids.
Last edited by muxxissinix on Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:15 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby Shevarash » Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:50 pm

There may be an error int he magic resistance processing for psi skills, I will look into that ASAP. As for a general review of Illithids and their role, that will take a bit longer but is in the planning stages.
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Postby Shevarash » Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:41 pm

Code: Select all

  - Psi damage is now treated exactly like spell damage in regards to Magic Resistance.
    In addition, dragon scales will no longer block psi attacks.


Hope this helps, at least for the short term.
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Postby xilissisix » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:14 pm

Sheverash, I get that these are short term patches but what do you plan in the long term for psis?

I really hope that you'll eventually get rid of MR resistance to psi attacks. Our damage already pales compared to most area damage. Especially when you consider how quickly our damage on individual mobs drops as the number of mobs in the room increases. Our only uses will be transport which is mainly a convenience and not a need and globe of darkness, which can be shoddily replaced by solid fog/earth fog/sun shadow. Any diminishment of illithid damage will make us virtually uselsss in groups.
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Postby Verarb » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:43 pm

Hahah
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Postby Dranix/Straxin » Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:23 am

Welcome to the life of a druid :)
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Postby Shevarash » Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:01 am

To clarify:

Previous to this change, any mob with a moderate intelligence score had a good chance to save against psionic damage and *negate* the damage (despite the 'partially' message).

Now, only mobs with MR will have psionic damage *reduced* by the MR, as with spells.

So this change should be seen not as nerf to psionic damage but a huge boost. Especially in regards to dragons, who were blocking the psi damage with their scales and their intelligence rating.
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Postby Sarell » Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:49 am

EEeeeek! does this apply to players getting hit with psi? Can't wait to see a psi with no HP get ultraed! that'll learn them!
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Postby Shevarash » Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:21 pm

Yes it does.
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Postby muxxissinix » Sat Jan 21, 2006 3:59 am

edited
Last edited by muxxissinix on Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby daggaz » Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:44 pm

No offense, but wth would MR have *anything* to do with psionics in the first place?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but MR = Magic Resistance, and psionics aren't magical in nature, in any way whatsoever.

Seems to me a clear cut case for using 'POWER.'

Seems to me also, that high level or not, any mobs that don't have an incredibly strong will power and an intellect that is so vast it borders on pushing open new dimensions, shouldnt have much of a power score at all.

Course, under these considerations, big dragons should be pretty buffed up against illithids (as well as against everybody else as well), but fighter mobs that aren't epic leaders/generals/etc, plant life, animal life, common rogues, lower level casters (50 or below), most chaotic aligns, monsters lacking int, etc.. shouldn't have much if any will save vs psionics 50th lvl.
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Postby Yasden » Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:48 pm

Power has nothing to do with psionics. Ask any illithid who's playing. It's purely intelligence.
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Postby xilissisix » Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:54 pm

I'm afraid I have to agree with Muxxissinix. Illithids are underpowered. I too will refrain from playing my illithid in the hopes that the Gods will give the psionicist class some needed attention.
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Postby Ambar » Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:50 pm

why not play a class you enjoy even if it needs fixes? how long have rangers been saying they need changes, but people still play them. if you enjoy a class, play it

sounds like cutting your nose off to spite your face.

shev said there are fixes in place, in the works .. be patient, stick it out ..
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Postby Sarell » Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:44 am

I will continue playing my illithid, and ranger, until I get them both further downgraded. TOUCH!

PS. I soloed, no assistance at all, archie with a ranger with 1 day ptime.

Squids have really good damage, the best transport (tho illusionists are pretty good aswell), and neat exploring skills. I think they are good and being extra damage wouldn't get left out of zone groups. What do you mean they can't beat any other spellcaster in areas? Maybe only voker who's only job is damage and psi even beat them in some zones. Coders, do psis do crap damage compared to invokers?

I also don't think the gods hate or look down on evils, from the sounds of it, the poeple who play squids hate the evils, the constant tirade of how evils suck destroys the evils. Refuse to play until gods upgrade you? Awesome. Laters :)
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Postby muxxissinix » Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:09 pm

edited
Last edited by muxxissinix on Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Eilistraee » Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:10 pm

Just curious, have you illithid players renewed your testing since we fixed it so that a successful saving throw didn't reduce damage to zero or one? That likely skewed the results of your testing somewhat.
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Postby muxxissinix » Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:23 pm

edited
Last edited by muxxissinix on Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Shevarash » Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:30 pm

muxxissinix wrote:Thanks Shevarash for fix the problem with dragons.(scales blocking psi damage)

You're welcome.



muxxissinix wrote:Now about MR:
I'll not log in Muxxissinix anymore. I really feel the coders look down on illithids and evilrace in general and the "short term patches" and you saying "is a huge boost" when is not.


You know, that's just insulting. I read your post, and took time out of that very day to try and address your problems. To get told in response that I look down on you and am a liar is a bit disheartening.

muxxissinix wrote: I did lots of test on psi damage in the past and I know it can't beat the best area/target damage of any other spellcaster who is used to do area/target damage in zones, all big mobs in zones use MR and then psi damage now really mean nothing in this zones.

I'll look over new changes, before I decide to play again Illithid.


Here's the deal (again) - the current Psi resistance was completely broken, and you were losing a TON of damage on ALL mobs, not just mobs with MR. Now you're only losing damage to mobs with MR by a set percentage, just like mages. A separate Psi resistance system is coming, but until then that was the best short term compromise I could come up with.

Take it for what its worth, more is coming soon. At least try and recognize that I am attempting to work with you and address your concerns...
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Postby muxxissinix » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:40 am

edited.
Last edited by muxxissinix on Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sarell » Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:10 am

muxxissinix wrote:Sarell you play one of the overpowered class in torilmud stop being adm friendly.

If you have a squid go test his damage and test other class damage if you have other classes, and make a serious reply. Don't just say "Squids have really good damage", squids can't have really good area damage and you should know why.


I do play an overpowered class, downgrade rangers! Not sure which other one you could have meant! :)

I also have a squid and have lead many an evil zone, it seems like they do pretty good damage to me, note the bit where I asked a coder to confirm that they don't completely suck? When evils had a few more players and you could take more than one psi to a zone squids proved great as a damage class having no feedback and being able to deliver far greater number of instances of their spells before having to rest/mem.

You said this

" I did lots of test on psi damage in the past and I know it can't beat the best area/target damage of any other spellcaster who is used to do area/target damage in zones, all big mobs in zones use MR and then psi damage now really mean nothing in this zones. "

and I replied speaking of my experience with psi damage. I'm not sure what makes your completely wrong statement more valid than my statement but I'm sure making your points into personal attacks don't help yours and my cause of making things more balanced.

I don't know why squids can't have good area damage even though I apparently should - and what is adm? I'm trying to not be friendly to anyone! :P
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Postby Demuladon » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:46 pm

Some results of mob ultrablasts against the evil group during the TTF run a day ago. If we had come up against more than 1 psi at a time would have been interesting! Biggest problem was psi mob walkins.

Format: casting mob/number targets hit/damage to me 50duergar ele/whether or not mind blank was up at the time.

Code: Select all

living wall,                 13 targets, 115 dam, mind blank up

living wall,                 14 targets, 120 dam, mind blank up

glob of rotting flesh,       15 targets, 220 dam

glob of rotting flesh,       15 targets, 235 dam

wall of flesh,               14 targets, 99 dam, mind blank up

wriggling mass of tentacles, 14 targets, 224 dam

glob of rotting flesh,       16 targets, 229 dam

glob of rotting flesh,       15 targets, 235 dam

wriggling mass of tentacles, 13 targets, 236 dam


Most effective psi round was:

< 258h/608H 145p/145P 114v/114V >
< T: Ruraz TC: few wounds E: mass EC: few wounds P: std >
You miss a wriggling mass of tentacles with your pound.
A wriggling mass of tentacles sends Adem sprawling with a powerful bash.
You suddenly feel a strong energy shockwave!
Originating from a wriggling mass of tentacles!
Marrus slumps to the ground.
Marrus is dead! R.I.P.
Marrus slumps to the ground.
Your blood freezes as you hear the rattling death cry of Marrus.
Ruraz stops chanting abruptly!
Marrus stops invoking abruptly!
Ruraz stops following Marrus.
Marrus has left the group.
Nilan slumps to the ground.
Nilan is dead! R.I.P.
Nilan is stunned!
Nilan slumps to the ground.
Your blood freezes as you hear the rattling death cry of Nilan.
Nilan has left the group.
The spell cast by a wriggling mass of tentacles is partially absorbed!
YIKES! Another hit like that, and you've had it!!
< 78h/608H 145p/145P 112v/114V >
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Postby muxxissinix » Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:09 pm

edited
Last edited by muxxissinix on Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ambar » Mon Jan 23, 2006 4:27 pm

damn and i am negative?? rofl
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Postby xilissisix » Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:12 pm

I see that this topic has caused a lot of analysis and thought about illithids which is really all I wanted. Thanks to the Gods who worked hard to introduce telekinet burst.
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Postby Disoputlip » Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:43 pm

Illithids don't get feedback.

Illithids is a util class, not a damage class.

(I have never played Illithid)
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Postby Sarell » Tue Jan 24, 2006 12:07 pm

muxxissinix wrote:, I'm glad is only one "goodie player" who is complaining about posible upgrading on an evilrace race/class. Think a bout this.


Thought about it, I think this kind of attitude hurts "evils" and any chance of them doing a zone that may actually require a squid for more than if squids had 0 damage.

Muxx your either not reading my posts or are just plain rude and ignorant. I NEVER said illithids were completely okay, I never said illithids shouldn't get upgrades, I only contributed my experiences with them (and I only did this in disgust at the 'i'm not playing, i'll take my ball and go home' tantrum expressed by players). These expereiences you instantly dismissed as if I was some kind of fool and you were the god of squids or something. Calling me 'some goodie', saying I should only post about psis in a different thread, and concocting ridiculous and outrageous claims about what your psi does in a zone, in all honesty makes me bored and sickened that the constantly complaining pbase who never zone gets yet another change made to the game. If there was a decent group of evil players they would totally dominate the mud with all of the bones they get thrown and it concerns me about future balance to be honest. Things come in huge swings around here for some reason, and every time they do more people leave.

I appreciate shev jumping on the bug with psi damage very much, however I actually don't think psis do need much of an upgrade, maybe that new skill is about right for a higher target effect and fixing some of the current skills to be in line with the spell versions. Who cares if they arn't the best versus dragons, they destroy giants, humans, wraith forms and constructs. PS, I still think they should lose wormhole. *taunt*
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Postby daggaz » Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:22 pm

Heh, Im still amazed that they imped illithids years ago and they still haven't actually imped the power stat. Wow. heheehehe (no burn intended, I know you guys are uber busy, but that is somewhat like imping warriors and running all their abilities off the con stat and hoping nobody will notice =P )
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Postby muxxissinix » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:44 pm

edited
Last edited by muxxissinix on Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ambar » Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:10 pm

Muxx I think you are totally misreading sarells posts :P

He is one of the most decent, nicest people I know (*touch*). He is a well versed and knowlegable player and VERY well known leader. If he sees fault with anything you do or say I am quite sure he'd bring it to you personally not to a public BBS where anyone can read. (even me). Just because you may not know who all his characters are, don't assume he doesnt know what he is talking about :)

In his very first post he DID state that he had made an offhand comment to the immorts that squids werent totaly right.

His question is VERY often asked when changes are made to classes and/or skills.. will it affect the NPC's too... Meaning, are we players ready to get our asses handed to us when Psi mobs get the same skill, and when we get our asses handed to us, will the mobs (rofl) say *I told you so!*

I think if you re-read this whole thread you will see what I am talking about.

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Postby Thilindel » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:28 pm

Well, the tone of how you're addressing Sarell is all wrong. He's a nice guy and a competent leader. He's saying his opinion about a class. Whether you agree or not with him, your attitute toward him is hostile. He's not been hostile to you. :( You seem passionate on making a class you like being more playable, but you should try to not let it turn into something personal when you both clearly like the game.

(woot me for being neutral!)
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Postby Pril » Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:39 pm

Thilindel wrote:Well, the tone of how you're addressing Sarell is all wrong. He's a nice guy and a competent leader. He's saying his opinion about a class. Whether you agree or not with him, your attitute toward him is hostile. He's not been hostile to you. :( You seem passionate on making a class you like being more playable, but you should try to not let it turn into something personal when you both clearly like the game.

(woot me for being neutral!)


Ok let's call Sarell what he really is, a kangaroo humper. Other than that i agree with all.
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Postby Vaprak » Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:49 pm

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Postby Sarell » Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:35 am

I'm actuallyy becoming much meaner in my old age jen, especially since my kangaroo left me for Mogr. :(

In sincerity tho, I was a bit ruffled and I'm sorry that we made eachother more ruffled muxx as the thread progressed / devolved.
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Postby Pepple » Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:05 pm

I play one of the active psi's, Immixazer. First off to the coders, thanks for addressing psionicists. I really appreciate the second looks. I have a few points to make.
I agree with Daggaz, saves against psionicist attacks should not be lumped together under MR. But I realize that's temporary until a separate save system is imped. That said, I'm not going to stop playing my psi as a form of protest -- I actually think this makes things worse. I think it'll be more positive if psis are active and the imms are aware of them. I don't remember Icecillam or older squids much, but I doubt they managed to win changes by not logging in their chars.

Ultrablast seems to work reasonably well still. Telekineticthrust has been working quite nicely the past few days. It fills in the huge void for psi damage at higher levels. People who don't play squids on Toril don't know how immensely boring it is to use mindblast (level 1) and projectforce (at level 14) as 99% of your non-area damage thru level 50.

Thanks again. I'm looking forward to the next set of changes for psis.
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Postby Pril » Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:45 pm

Pepple wrote:I play one of the active psi's, Immixazer. First off to the coders, thanks for addressing psionicists. I really appreciate the second looks. I have a few points to make.
I agree with Daggaz, saves against psionicist attacks should not be lumped together under MR. But I realize that's temporary until a separate save system is imped. That said, I'm not going to stop playing my psi as a form of protest -- I actually think this makes things worse. I think it'll be more positive if psis are active and the imms are aware of them. I don't remember Icecillam or older squids much, but I doubt they managed to win changes by not logging in their chars.

Ultrablast seems to work reasonably well still. Telekineticthrust has been working quite nicely the past few days. It fills in the huge void for psi damage at higher levels. People who don't play squids on Toril don't know how immensely boring it is to use mindblast (level 1) and projectforce (at level 14) as 99% of your non-area damage thru level 50.

Thanks again. I'm looking forward to the next set of changes for psis.


I imagine as boring as it is for vokers to use magic missiles for damage when they're bored of casting force missiles :p
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Postby Sarell » Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:10 am

< P: std > con mole
That creature appears to be no match for you!
This creature appears to be tiny compared to you.

< 162h/514H 166v/166V >
< P: std > kill mole
A brain mole staggers from your fearsome slash!

< 162h/514H 166v/166V >
< T: Ssarak TC: nasty wounds E: mole EC: small wounds P: std >
A brain mole misses you with its bite.
You stumble under the awesome force front emanating from a brain mole's direction.
YIKES! Another hit like that, and you've had it!!
You feel a chill radiate through your shimmering crystal scimitar as it strikes
a brain mole, releasing a burst of bright light.
Your awesome slash causes a brain mole to gasp in pain!
A brain mole is nearly slain by the force of your slash!

< 50h/514H 166v/166V >
< T: Ssarak TC: awful E: mole EC: awful P: std > flee


***

I also got killed as a level 50 in ONE blast by he mob in gnome place, it isn't very big.

.....Downgrade Psis! They are completely ridiculous and impossible now to fight against unless you take a WAY overpowered group into the zone of X intended level.
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