Invokers and enchanters suck

[Corth]

Bring back sorcerors. :)

[daggaz]

New Class

Sorcerers: Mix the spell lists, remove all tenth circle quest spells, but allow the character to choose between specialize enchantment and specialize invocation. Perhaps tone down some of the heavier voker damage spells like force missiles. (Can you imagine that with elf agility and stone skin? eeesh)

Berserkers: New? Feh just bring them back. Absolutely NO reason whatsoever to take them out in the first place. Not like emotionally unstable hitter/tank classes are going to unbalance anything.

Cave Trolls: Ogre size n strength, 1/2 troll regen, reduced fire vuln., mix between the agility, doorbash, ultravision, hated in all hometowns but ghore and faang.

[Shevarash]

Duly noted.

[flib]

blah. leave invokers alone you nancers!

[Lilira]

Seconded!!!!

[Corth]

So you one-trick ponies can continue to unbalance the mud... I think not! :)

Corth

[Glorishan]

Vote yes to proposition 242!

[Lilira]

Hey Corth...

Have you PLAYED an invoker?

You want imbalanced check out a 50th level elem. :P They can solo stuff I've never dreamed of. With Eya, one switch that isn't promptly rescued and I fold like a card table.

We aren't the "disposable mage class" for nothin'!

[daggaz]

Funny thing about elementalists tho, is that in zone groups they become a second rate utility class.

Their solo powers are unheralded, true, and surpass even the great enchanters, but its SLOW going. Takes HOURS. (but héy, its fun!)

PS... how do you import images?

[Ambar]

Funny thing about elementalists tho, is that in zone groups they become a second rate utility class.

Their solo powers are unheralded, true, and surpass even the great enchanters, but its SLOW going. Takes HOURS. (but héy, its fun!)

PS... how do you import images?

depends on the zone :P and the elementalist

[Gormal]

Elementalists are actually pretty balanced, Lil. While you can solo a wide range of things and do even more with a small group, that's about where their usefulness ends. In a full 15-person group they lack the offensive or defensive punch of any other mage class. They can't scale/blur like the enchanter you will have, they can't displace, stun, do good area damage like an illusionist, nor can they pump out the raw damage an invoker can. Embodiment is nice for certain zones, as are mentals, but you're better off bringing a shaman/illus/invoker/lich instead of an elementalist in a high-end zone.

We completed Seelie how fast the other day with 5 invokers? I wanna say it was well under 2 hours. Corth is trying to say that by making the mage classes specialized, they are too powerful. Where before you'd bring 2 sorcs, now you bring 1 of each specialized class who do a specific job rather than coordinate to share globe/stone/nuke duties, and they do it better.

[Lilira]

Dunno Gormy.. I kinda like earthblood in those fights where stuff hits REALLY REALLY hard... I've seen it save a group before.

Elems also excel at luring stuff. Illus are great for that too I'm aware of that fact! *grin* Just trying to point out that with a person who pays attention to little details like that, a good elem can be invaluable.

[Gormal]

Earthblood... I'd rather see fell frosts and force missles tearing em up:P As for luring, I'll take a rogue/illus any day as they survive far better than an elem in a big group (since we're embodying someone else).

[Corth]

Hey Corth...
Have you PLAYED an invoker?

No, I am capable of doing more than spamming out area spells. :)

[Ruxur]

Hey Corth...
Have you PLAYED an invoker?

No, I am capable of doing more than spamming out area spells. :)

ORLY?

all that from whereever you choose to idle from?

[Corth]

Its not a true evil group until Rux0r graces us with his presence!

[Dalar]

Who really cares how much an Elementalist can solo? I've solo'd Paracs in its current state with my efhr. The only thing I needed was a gate to astral.

[Yasden]

I used to be able to do it with my warrior and a large supply of CP mutts.

You can solo ANY character if you have the right tools, utilities, and know what the hell you're doing while playing your class. The true challenge to mastering any class on the MUD is ultimately knowing what you can and cannot do. I think soloing stuff occasionally truly helps build player skill, a lot more so than just typing the same command over and over and over in an xp group or zone.

BTW, you can solo stuff as an invoker too. I soloed my voker almost to 40th on Soj2 before the MUD shut down. Something for ya to chew on.

[daggaz]

I solo'd my drow voker to 39th on this wipe. Elf agi pwns you all!

... of course, he has a rather serious and permanent life potion habit now.

[Raiwen]

if you're going to add a new race that is ogre-like, then why not just FIX ogres?

[Sarell]

Ogres don't need fixing. All the tanking skills based on Str not mattering a pinch needs to be looked at.

Invokers and chanters are kind of flat. Make their AC/scales not make them a good/better tank on their own without a TANK, as per the fixing of ogres, that would be a massive downgrade. Then give them all both chanter and voker spells with specialisation in voker or chanter as per olden days. Choosing to go offense or pop in a little more defense depending on current group structure VS the enemy is great fun as a sorc, you can do it a bit on enchater atm, I don't know how you invokers cope :P

You could implement tank changes first fine, then voker/chanter mix up after, no way it would work the other way around due to the massive twink/overpowered period that would ensue.

[Raiwen]

Ogres don't need fixing. All the tanking skills based on Str not mattering a pinch needs to be looked at.

It doesn't matter what the "FIX" is...

whatever it is, they need to do *something* so ogre warriors are seen more than just a joke. However...

My MAIN point was.. why ADD another evil race that is similar to ogres? To remove any desire what-so-ever to roll an ogre? That was my point. If someone wants to add a similar sized evil race, then just FIX ogres to fit whatever roll they had in mind.

[Sarell]

Agree mightily raiwen, fix the big tank they have before add another. Just looking at linking it to the invokers/chanter thread, which i think involves tanking skills overall mightily, in particular reference to ogres STR. Tanking skills need a look at in order to have a combined class that isn't godly.

[Llaaldara]

Ogre Sorcs to the rescue! We need Ogre Sorcs!